Post/Author/DateTime	Post
oberyn 12-27-04, 06:27 PM	hello all i am almost finished with my campaign. the one thing that doesetn fit is the monk. i have no oriental style in this one so i was wondering if anyone had an african-themed monk?
Gadodel 12-27-04, 06:31 PM	A very interesting concept. I am thinking that some Druidic influences would be in order, but I am not sure what else could be done.
oberyn 12-27-04, 07:01 PM	i was thinking of making them quarterstaff and javalin specialized but that seems to specialized for a base class. like give them abilitys with the weapons. maybe increasing damage with the quarterstaff. maybe even have them specailized in the warstaff(new martial weapon thats basicaly a two-bladed sword with less critical power and bludgoning). maybe some aspects of the wild from UA? if im remebering right the africans had martial arts but were most deadly with staffs and thrown spears.
Gadodel 12-27-04, 07:18 PM	Blowguns, lassos, Staff...all really good. Spears would be ideal as well. Think: Zulu. Most cultures have some form of Martial Art. I would incorporate Dance into it. The perform skill would be important to this type of Monk.
oberyn 12-27-04, 07:21 PM	maybe more attacks or better damage or simply better speed and/or special abilitys tied to your ranks in dance?
Gadodel 12-27-04, 07:26 PM	You know? Now that I start thinking about it, perhaps Bardic Influences may be more in order than Druidic. Dazzle. Inspire. Suggestion. Etc. Replace some of the Monk abilities with these... Music is very important as is the Oral Tradition. The Monk could easily be used as a Herald. Or Bodyguards for a Chief. Etc. Maybe just a more warlike bard is what I am starting to head towards. Thinking aloud here.
glimeral 12-27-04, 07:28 PM	African Monk An african monk has all the class features of a monk except as follows: Class skills: Remove Diplomacy, Knowledge (arcana) from the list of class skills and add Knowledge (nature) and Survival instead. Weapon and armor proficiency: Instead of the normal monk weapon proficiencies, an african monk is proficient with the blowpipe, bolas (including barbed bolas), boomerang (or chakrum*), club, dagger, dart, handaxe, javelin, longspear, quarterstaff, shortspear, sickle and sling. Special Monk weapons: African monks treat the dagger, dart, quarterstaff longspear, shortspear, and sickle as special monk weapons instead of those found in the phb. Their ability to treat the longspear as a special monk weapon duplicates the effects of the Serpent Strike feat from Eberron CS. *The statistics for the chakrum are found in the planar handbook, although they are called the anulut or something to that effect.
oberyn 12-27-04, 07:39 PM	that could work but i definitly want it to be very closely tied to the monk or my players might gripe. i was thinking maybe they could flurry with a couple of weapons (maybe only the javelin if they had quick draw and the quarterstaff) so badric music abilitys that would apply to dance and possibly singing. unarmed flurry and flurry with a couple of other weapons. very few weapon proficiencys maybe 10 at the most. no armor. cirtain abilitys also tied into perform(dance) maybe thier speed bonus or flurry abilities could be tied into that skill? something like 4 ranks to get normal flurry. 6 ranks for +10 feet speed +3 ranks for each additional +10 feet of movement 14 ranks for greater flurry increase quarterstaff damage to a total of 2D8 so like 1st level it would be 1D6 4-7th 1D8, 8-11th 1D10, 12-15th 2D6,16th+ 2D8 damage what do you think?
glimeral 12-27-04, 07:41 PM	monks are normally proficient with 7 simple weapons and 5 exotic weapons, and are capable of flurrying with all 5 of their exotic weapons, as well as quarterstaffs.
Gadodel 12-27-04, 07:42 PM	Ohhh...Blind Flurry. Idea: The Monk begins with a drum...working himself into what seems like a 'fury'. Next thing everyone knows, the monk is 'drumming' on his foes... The Music would improve his unarmed attacks.
oberyn 12-27-04, 07:47 PM	how would the mechanics of that work? would he have to use a drum at the beginning of combat to gain his flurry? and would it only apply for a cirtain number of rounds?
Gadodel 12-27-04, 07:49 PM	Yeah, it would have to be a limited bonus.
glimeral 12-27-04, 07:50 PM	I still think it would be easier to assume that they gain the abilities i mentioned above. Escrima and other forms of martial arts which are based off of perform and the like can still be taken into account, especially since perform and tumble are both on the monks class list. I think it would bog down the rules too much for you to bother with a mechanic like that.
oberyn 12-27-04, 07:53 PM	would it work with dancing too? like he would have to maintian dancing or drumming or singing for two rounds until he was pulled into his flurry/fury. he would gain the flurry and greater flurry abilitys for lets say 5+con mod since he gets no bonus to stats so this is actually a bit worse than the whirling frenzy. i think he should gain the improved unarmed and quarterstaff damage at all times not just in this dance/song/drum solo
oberyn 12-27-04, 07:54 PM	i like yor ideas for an african monk glimeral but it just doesent seem right to assume an african monk would gain anything having to do with ki. it seems like it would just throw flavor out of the window.
glimeral 12-27-04, 08:18 PM	then eliminate ki from the class then and grant them something else. You were wanting a thematic class variation, not a complete re-write. If you want a complete rewrite of the class that pays only lipservice to the class (unarmed strike, slow fall, fast movement, evasion) that is easily arranged. For starters I would probably give them uncanny dodge and improved uncanny dodge, and perhaps as you put it, some sort of bardic music ability which grants all allies a competence bonus to attack and damage rolls (including the african monk).
oberyn 12-27-04, 08:47 PM	get rid of uncanny dodge and improved there of. and give them a full BaB only inspire courage and inspire heroics at thier apropriate levels. replace slow fall with a climb speed (starting at 1/4 movement rate and moving to 1/3, 1/2, 3/4, full) give them improved damage with fist and quarterstaff at all times. have them go into a "Flurry Fury" a cirtain number of times per day probobly akin to the barbarians times per day. in this they gain flurry and then the improved versions there of at apropriate levels. this "flurry fury" lasts a number of round equal to half their ranks in perform (round up) plus con modifier. proficient with quarterstaff, kukri, blowgun, bolas(spiked and normal), javelin, sling, spear, net, boomerang. the african monk can flurry with his unarmed strikes, quarterstaff, kukri, spear. if the african monk has quick draw and a supply of these weapons he can also flurry with javelins. what do you think?
glimeral 12-27-04, 08:52 PM	there is already a monk variation published in dragon called the rage monk. Alignment: Lawful Replace Flurry of blows, greater flurry, AC bonus, Fast movement with Rage (which stacks with barbarian rage) and Damage Reduction. This variation has also been reprinted in UA if memory serves me correctly.
oberyn 12-27-04, 08:57 PM	i dont want him to rage. that was just a name i made up on the fly. he will just get his flurry abilitys during that time. since he has a bunch of other abilitys he shoudlnt get these allt he time. also if he has quickdraw and a good supply he can flurry with bolas.
GRAOUH !!! 12-27-04, 09:00 PM	Which part of africa ? I suppose that you are talking about black men old culture. Barbarian, fighters, druids, rogues, rangers and sorcerers are perfect in a "black african setting." Why not clerics, but wizard and other bookworms or monks are strange ideas. The more common weapon would be the lance and the melees would be limited to light armors. It was very hard to survive in africa and nomadic cultures were the most common organization, so it's difficult to think about african warriors developping the selfish art of monks. Dance is a very important part of the society, but outside the fight. They believe in spirits, so if you want something close to the Ki, you can use this faith in the possibility to gain qualities of an animal. When you deal with dangerous animals, what you want to do is to kill in one hit, I don't think that flurry of blows is adapted. And remember that african-themed means nothing as africa have white and black people, and it's not very new ;) It's a very rich continent, but it's hard for me to see monk-like talents coming from hard parts of the world as it takes too much time to learn them when your priority is to survive. Vickings, Zulus, derviches, but monks ? Monks come from an old (very old) lawful civilization.
Kintara 12-27-04, 09:09 PM	Hmm, I don't think you need to make many changes. It wouldn't be all that hard to change the names around so that the different abilities have, say, an animistic justification. Slow Fall could easily be justified as channeling air spirits or the vulture, or some other animal. But the class would still be a meditative/spiritual martial artist who gains power through a disciplined regimen. Or you can modify the class to turn the monk into something more shamanic/bardic. The trouble with that is that if you're doing more direct ports of the other classes, you don't want to step on their toes. If you're going to borrow something from the Bard, for example, then I'd consider switching out whatever you take from them for yet another thing. I like the idea of them using spears, though, so I think you should work that in. For the dancing, offer a fighting style, like in Unearthed Arcana, and make Perform (Dance) a pre-req. Overwheming Attack might even work as is, and gives the Monk an interesting edge. Edit: I disagree with the perception of Africa as a place unsuited for the concept of a settled, ancient, and "lawful" civilization, even ignoring Egypt.
glimeral 12-27-04, 09:10 PM	i agree with you on that point although there is escrima, although incidentily it is a south american martial art that was developed within the last 200 years or so.
oberyn 12-27-04, 09:36 PM	monk is just a name for this whole thing i dont like it very much either i am getting together a table and ill post it and you see if you like it. this is a setting in which my players are on a continent where the upper realms are viking-ish culture and the lower jungles are an african-ish culture. not historicly acurate obviously but i wanted something to fit my flavor better. would you give me a better name for all of this?
oberyn 12-27-04, 10:23 PM	i have no clue how to post the table here so anyone who can tell me how to post a file link tell me. or ask for it by emailing me at thechocolateconversation@yahoo.com Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Monks are proficient with club, quarterstaff, kukri, blowgun, bolas (spiked and normal), javelin, sling, spear, net, boomerang, and short bow. Monks are not proficient with any armor or shields When wearing armor, using a shield, or carrying a medium or heavy load, a monk loses her AC bonus, as well as her fast movement and Flurry Dance abilities. AC Bonus (Ex): When unarmored and unencumbered, the monk gains the unarmored AC bonus of a fighter. In addition, a monk gains a +1 bonus to AC at 5th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every five monk levels thereafter (+2 at 10th, +3 at 15th, and +4 at 20th level). These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when the monk is flat-footed. She loses these bonuses when she is immobilized or helpless, when she wears any armor, when she carries a shield, or when she carries a medium or heavy load. Monk Dance: Once per day per Monk level, a Monk can Dance to produce magical effects on those around him (usually including himself, if desired). Each ability requires both a minimum Monk level and a minimum number of ranks in the Perform (dance) skill to qualify, if a Monk does not have the required number of ranks in the Perform skill, he does not gain the Monk dance ability until he acquires the needed ranks. Starting a Monk Dance effect is a standard action. Some Monk dance abilities require concentration, which means the bard must take a standard action each round to maintain the ability. Even while using Monk Dances that doesn’t require concentration, a Monk cannot cast spells, activate magic items by spell completion (such as scrolls), or activate magic items by magic word (such as wands). Inspire Courage (Su): A Monk with 3 or more ranks in Perform (Dance) skill can use a dance to inspire courage in his allies (including himself), bolstering them against fear and improving their combat abilities. To be affected, an ally must be able to see the Monk dance. The effect lasts for as long as the ally sees the monk dance and for 5 rounds thereafter. An affected ally receives a +1 morale bonus on saving throws against charm and fear effects and a +1 morale bonus on attack and weapon damage rolls. At 8th level, and every six monk levels thereafter, this bonus increases by 1 (+2 at 8th, +3 at 14th, and +4 at 20th). Inspire courage is a mind-affecting ability. Inspire Greatness (Su): A Monk of 9th level or higher with 12 or more ranks in Perform (dance) can use dance to inspire greatness in himself or a single willing ally within 30 feet, granting him or her extra fighting capability. For every three levels a monk attains beyond 9th, he can target one additional ally with a single use of this ability (two at 12th level, three at 15th, four at 18th). To inspire greatness, a monk must dance and an ally must see him dance. The effect lasts for as long as the ally sees the monk dance and for 5 rounds thereafter. A creature inspired with greatness gains 2 bonus Hit Dice (d10s), the commensurate number of temporary hit points (apply the target’s Constitution modifier, if any, to these bonus Hit Dice), a +2 competence bonus on attack rolls, and a +1 competence bonus on Fortitude saves. The bonus Hit Dice count as regular Hit Dice for determining the effect of spells that are Hit Dice dependant. Inspire greatness is a mind-affecting ability. Inspire Heroics (Su): A Monk of 15th level or higher with 18 or more ranks in a Perform (dance) can use dance to inspire tremendous heroism in himself or a single willing ally within 30 feet. For every three monk levels the character attains beyond 15th, he can inspire heroics in one additional creature. To inspire heroics, a monk must dance and an ally must see the monk dance for a full round. A creature so inspired gains a +4 morale bonus on saving throws and a +4 dodge bonus to AC. The effect lasts for as long as the ally sees the monk dance and for up to 5 rounds thereafter. Inspire heroics is a mind-affecting ability. Flurry Dance(Ex): When unarmored, a monk may strike with a flurry of blows at the expense of accuracy. When doing so, she may make one extra attack in a round at her highest base attack bonus, but this attack takes a –2 penalty, as does each other attack made that round. The resulting modified base attack bonuses are shown in the Flurry Dance Attack Bonus column on Table: The Monk. This penalty applies for 1 round, so it also affects attacks of opportunity the monk might make before her next action. When a monk reaches 5th level, the penalty lessens to –1, and at 9th level it disappears. A monk must use a full attack action to strike with a flurry of blows. When using flurry of blows, a monk may attack only with unarmed strikes or with special monk weapons (kukri, javelin, quarterstaff, bola, and the spear). She may attack with unarmed strikes and special monk weapons interchangeably as desired. When using weapons as part of a flurry of blows, a monk applies her Strength bonus (not Str bonus x 1-1/2 or x1/2) to her damage rolls for all successful attacks, whether she wields a weapon in one or both hands. The monk can’t use any weapon other than a special monk weapon as part of a flurry of blows. In the case of the quarterstaff, each end counts as a separate weapon for the purpose of using the flurry of blows ability. Even though the quarterstaff requires two hands to use, a monk may still intersperse unarmed strikes with quarterstaff strikes, assuming that she has enough attacks in her flurry of blows routine to do so. When a monk reaches 11th level, her flurry of blows ability improves. In addition to the standard single extra attack she gets from flurry of blows, she gets a second extra attack at her full base attack bonus. A monk may use this ability a number of times per day as indicated on the table. This Flurry dance lasts a number of rounds equal to ½ of her perform (dance) skill (rounded up) + the monks Con modifier. Unarmed Strike: At 1st level, a monk gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. A monk’s attacks may be with either fist interchangeably or even from elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a monk may even make unarmed strikes with her hands full. There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed. A monk may thus apply her full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all her unarmed strikes. Usually a monk’s unarmed strikes deal lethal damage, but she can choose to deal nonlethal damage instead with no penalty on her attack roll. She has the same choice to deal lethal or nonlethal damage while grappling. Note: she also has the option to deal subdual damage at no penalty with the quarterstaff. A monk’s unarmed strike is treated both as a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons. A monk also deals more damage with her unarmed strikes than a normal person would, as shown on Table: The Monk. The unarmed damage on Table: The Monk is for Medium monks. A Small monk deals less damage than the amount given there with her unarmed attacks, while a Large monk deals more damage; see Table: Small or Large Monk Unarmed Damage. Table: Small or Large Monk Unarmed Damage Level Damage (Small Monk) Damage(Large Monk) 1st–3rd 1d4 1d8 4th–7th 1d6 2d6 8th–11th 1d8 2d8 12th–15th 1d10 3d6 16th–20th 2d6 3d8 Bonus Feat: At 1st level, a monk may select either Improved Grapple or Stunning Fist as a bonus feat. At 2nd level, she may select either Combat Reflexes or Deflect Arrows as a bonus feat. At 6th level, she may select either Improved Disarm or Improved Trip as a bonus feat. At 13th level, she may select either Improved Bull rush or Improved Sunder. At 17th level, she may select any one feat she has not already selcted on her bonus feat list. A monk need not have any of the prerequisites normally required for these feats to select them. Evasion (Ex): At 2nd level or higher if a monk makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if a monk is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless monk does not gain the benefit of evasion. Fast Movement (Ex): At 3rd level, a monk gains an enhancement bonus to her speed, as shown on Table: The Monk. A monk in armor or carrying a medium or heavy load loses this extra speed. Note: At 3rd level a monk must have a number of Perform (dance) ranks equal too or greater than 6. for each additional speed increase the monk must have the previous number of ranks + 3. Climb speed (Ex): At 4th level the monk gains a climb speed equal to 1/4th his movement rate. This increases to 1/3rd at 6th, one half at 8th, 2/3rds at 10th, 3/4 ‘s at 12th, and finaly at 14th level the monk can climb at her full movement rate.
GypsyComet 12-27-04, 11:19 PM	In general, you may want to look at the "Nyambe" setting, published by Atlas Games several years ago. It's a D20 (3.0) book that looks at a mythic Africa.
Szatany 12-28-04, 05:17 AM	Here you go ;) Table: The Monk Unarmed Unarmored Base Attack Fort Ref Will Flurry Dance & Staff AC Speed Level Bonus Save Save Save Special Attack Bonus Damage Bonus Bonus 1st +1 +2 +2 +2 Bonus feat, unarmed strike -1/-1 1d6 +0 +0 ft. monk dance, flurry dance 1/day, inspire courage +1 2nd +2 +3 +3 +3 Bonus feat, evasion +0/+0 1d6 +0 +0 ft. 3rd +3 +3 +3 +3 Flurry dance 2/day +1/+1 1d6 +0 +10 ft. 4th +4 +4 +4 +4 Climb speed ¼ movement rate +2/+2 1d8 +0 +10 ft. 5th +5 +4 +4 +4 +4/+4 1d8 +1 +10 ft. 6th +6/+1 +5 +5 +5 Bonus feat, climb speed 1/3 +5/+5/+0 1d8 +1 +20 ft. movement rate 7th +7/+2 +5 +5 +5 Flurry dance 3/day +6/+6/+1 1d8 +1 +20 ft. 8th +8/+3 +6 +6 +6 Climb speed ½ movement rate +7/+7/+2 1d10 +1 +20 ft. inspire courage +2 9th +9/+4 +6 +6 +6 Improved evasion, inspire +9/+9/+4 1d10 +1 +30 ft. greatness 10th +10/+5 +7 +7 +7 Climb speed 2/3 movement +10/+10/+5 1d10 +2 +30 ft. rate 11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +7 +7 Flurry dance 4/day, greater +11/+11/+11/+6/+1 1d10 +2 +30 ft. flurry 12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +8 +8 Climb speed ¾ movement rate +12/+12/+12/+7/+2 2d6 +2 +40 ft. 13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +8 +8 Bonus feat +13/+13/+13/+8/+3 2d6 +2 +40 ft. 14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +9 +9 Climb speed full movement +14/+14/+14/+9/+4 2d6 +2 +40 ft. rate, inspire courage +3 15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +9 +9 Flurry dance 5/day, inspire +15/+15/+15/+10/+5 2d6 +3 +50 ft. heroics 16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +10 +10 +16/+16/+16/+11/+6/+1 2d8 +3 +50 ft. 17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +10 +10 Bonus feat +17/+17/+17/+12/+7/+2 2d8 +3 +50 ft. 18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +11 +11 +18/+18/+18/+13/+8/+3 2d8 +3 +60 ft. 19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +11 +11 Flurry dance 6/day +19/+19/+19/+14/+9/+4 2d8 +3 +60 ft. 20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +12 +12 Inspire courage +5 +20/+20/+20/+15/+10/+5 2d8 +4 +60 ft. Table: Small or Large Monk Unarmed & Staff Damage Damage Damage Level (Small Monk) (large Monk) 1st-3rd 1d4 1d8 4th-7th 1d6 2d6 8th-11th 1d8 2d8 12th-15th 1d10 3d6 16th-20th 2d6 3d8
oberyn 12-28-04, 07:21 AM	:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: for Szatany!!!!!
Kintara 12-28-04, 12:10 PM	I'd drop the bonus feats. In fact, I'd drop a lot of stuff if you want to give him a full BAB and still let him flurry. By the late levels, he's not going to really worry about running out, anyway, so you're basically giving him two extra attacks at the highest BAB. Compare with the fighter. This monk gets great saves, with Evasion, not a small amount of bonus feats, and I'm assuming he still gets monk skills and HD. Also, since he can't pierce damage reduction without using magic weapons, his unarmed strike will quickly become more flavor than something the character will actually use, unless his staff damage equals his unarmed damage. If so, then all monks will be using magic quarterstaves, and that means that he's going to be doing superb damage, along with everything else.
glimeral 12-28-04, 02:31 PM	Agreed. I see no reason to play a fighter or other warrior based class over this one (mechanically) therefore it is overpowered. Sure, a fighter gains a few extra bonus feats, but not that many more. But giving up a few feats, and having a slightly lower HD is more than enough to gain the monks skills, flurry of blows, and all those other attacks. You really need to tone down the class so that it is in keeping with the core classes. I have made quite a few classses myself already and I know how tough it is to give a class the vision you have for it and still keep it balanced against the other classes. Usually you have to tone down your vision of the class and gear the class in such a way that if someone MULTICLASSES into another class or PrC THEN they will attain the vision you are desiring.
oberyn 12-28-04, 05:13 PM	ill drop the feats at 13 and 17 and ill make thier dance only last 5+con i wont give them greater flurry at 11th level. would that put them at about balanced?
Bladesinger Boy 12-28-04, 06:13 PM	You should go about making a new combat style to replace the standard 1st, 2nd, and 6th level feats. For brazilian martials, there's copowaeta (spelt right?) but I have no clue for african. I'd swtich a few of the strong mind and body abilties with tracking, perception and enduracne skills. Mayber even an animal companion. A tribesman doesn't need a still mind to live; he need's a full belly. For feats to deal with, I'd say Track, Run, Endurance, Die Hard, Alertness, Stealthy, Improved Toughness, Throw Anything, Dash, Quick-Draw, Flick of the Wrist, Improved Grapple, Far Shot, Axe Thrower (str to hit with thrown weapons). For special abilities, I'd say Swift Tracker, Favoured Enemy, Camouflage, Animal Companion, Woodland Stride, Wild Empathy, an increase in carrying capacity (maybe x2 the stnadard, equivalent to +4 strength on the chart I think), some bonus with either polearms (reach weapons) and/or javelin type thrown weapons or slings. Maybe the spearman is the melee tank type, the slinger is the ranged dude, and the javelineer bit of both (loosing penalties for melee javenlin fighting). Think about making a new Ranger combat style and changing it so say "if you're tribesman style ranger and an iron body martial arts monk, you can freely multiclass with the other" because most of those abilites are Ranger and Monk. Any of that inspiring? Anyone know of any good movies to draw from?
Ancient Wyrm 12-28-04, 11:32 PM	If you want the monk to focus in weapons like the spear, quarterstaff, or javelin, you might consider dropping the unarmed damage progression entirely, or at least cutting it back severely (perhaps upping it to 1d6 as normal, then stopping), in exchange for... oh, ranger spells, perhaps. (This would also grant access to magic claw, which would compensate well for the lack of increased damage and ki strike abilities.) But this might be stepping on ranger toes a bit too much. Given reports about the abilities of Zulu warriors (and general stereotypes about Africans), Run and/or Endurance as bonus feats are a must. I see speed as the African monk's standout point; perhaps a dervish dance-like or pounce ability is in order so as to allow a character to benefit both from his speed and his flurry ability.
TheMightyMcClaw 12-29-04, 12:06 AM	Did you ever seen Conan the Destroyer? I think the woman in that fits what you're looking for very well.
Kintara 12-29-04, 12:28 AM	ill drop the feats at 13 and 17 and ill make thier dance only last 5+con i wont give them greater flurry at 11th level. would that put them at about balanced?To be honest? No, not really. Drop Evasion and get rid of the Staff damage boost, and I might be more comfortable. That leaves him with a full BAB, an extra attack, Good saves all around, a massive movement bonus (with Climb), and Bard-like abilities that he can apply to himself. Edit: Even then, I'm definitely not sure.
glimeral 12-29-04, 01:23 AM	Although this doesnt help you determine the class abilities for your african style unarmed specialist (as the discussion on this thread has pretty much differentiated that this character is not a monk, although shares some similarities with a monk in terms of being an unarmed/staff specialist) i suggest you check out my Sumo Wrestler Class (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=356602) to get some ideas how to make a balanced unarmed specialist which is only a little bit monklike. My sumo wrestler was hard to balance given what I wanted to create and it took me considerable effort this afternoon to do so (as i kept making it either underpowered or overpowered and had to keep adjusting its level balance until it flowed nicely) and can technically be seen as part monk, part fighter, part barbarian and part goliath with flavourful yet unique abilities throw in as glue. In any case I only present it so that you can see that just because you are using the monk as a base class to BUILD your african unarmed specialist from, doesnt mean that you have to stay entirely within the framework of the monk class just so long as you make a concerted effort to balance what changes you do make.
Ravos20 12-29-04, 01:51 AM	keep the monk BAB i.e. 3/4 bab.... also consider giving them poison use. poisons are used alot.... also maybe the hogtie ability from the justicar, but not the improved version.
oberyn 12-29-04, 09:29 PM	how about monk BaB drop the feats at level 13 and 17 make his dance only last 5+con AND drop unarmed max improved damage to D6. and then we give them pouce at 13th level and poison use?
HollowMan 12-29-04, 11:09 PM	I think there is a little flavor issue with this class. To me the concept of a monk in an African theme really doesn't fit. Instead, I think this class should be a variant of the Ranger class. The reason I feel this way is that the abilities and weapons presented in the class make it more of a hunter-tracker variant, which is very similar to the ranger. So, if you do that, I would suggest changing the favored enemy progression so that they only have 4 favored enemies, add poison use, and modify the combat styles. You could incorporate the Perform (Dance) into this with maybe a Dance of Blades style, which focuses on swords, and a Spear/Javelin style which focuses on the spears and javelins. Well, thats my advice.
glimeral 12-29-04, 11:30 PM	Perform (weapon drill) is more suited to that than perform (dance).
oberyn 12-30-04, 07:16 AM	Table: The Hunter Unarmored Base Attack Fort Ref Will AC Speed Level Bonus Save Save Save Special Bonus Bonus 1st +1 +2 +2 +2 1st favored enemy, track, Style, poison use +0 +0 ft. 2nd +2 +3 +3 +3 Run +0 +0 ft. 3rd +3 +3 +3 +3 Edurance +0 +10 ft. 4th +4 +4 +4 +4 Animal Companion +0 +10 ft. 5th +5 +4 +4 +4 2nd Favored Enemy +1 +10 ft. 6th +6/+1 +5 +5 +5 Improved Style +1 +20 ft. 7th +7/+2 +5 +5 +5 Woodland Stride +1 +20 ft. 8th +8/+3 +6 +6 +6 Swift Tracker +1 +20 ft. 9th +9/+4 +6 +6 +6 Evasion +1 +30 ft. 10th +10/+5 +7 +7 +7 +2 +30 ft. 11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +7 +7 Style Mastery +2 +30 ft. 12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +8 +8 3rd Favored Enemy +2 +40 ft. 13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +8 +8 +2 +40 ft. 14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +9 +9 +2 +40 ft. 15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +9 +9 +3 +50 ft. 16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +10 +10 Improved style +3 +50 ft. 17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +10 +10 Camouflage +3 +50 ft. 18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +11 +11 4th Favored Enemy +3 +60 ft. 19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +11 +11 +3 +60 ft. 20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +12 +12 Hide in plain sight +4 +60 ft. All is as ranger except as follows. Weapon proficiencys: scemitar, club, quarterstaff, kukri, blowgun, bolas (spiked and normal), javelin, short spear, sling, sickle, spear, net, and boomerang. No armors but all shields (except tower shields) . Poison use: A Hunter never suffers a chance of poisoning himself when he applys poison to a weapon. Styles: Dance of Blades: The Hunter who chooses this style at first level gains the benefit of two weapon fighting. In Addition the hunter gains Perform (Dance) and Tumble as class skills. even if he does not meet the prerequisites. Ranged hunter: A Hunter who choses this style is granted the use of the rapid shot feat, and the quick draw feat. even of he does not meet the prerequisites. Spear & Shield: A Hunter who choses this style may use the benefits of Improved Shield Bash and he may use a two handed spear with a shield. Improved style: Dance of Blades: At 6th level a hunter who chose this style at 1st level may enter a dance as that of the Dervish (CW) this dance lasts a number of rounds equal to 1/2 your ranks in Perform (dance) + Con modifier. at 6th level the Hunter may use this ability 1/day and this increases 1/day every 4 levels (i. e. 2/day at 10th, 3/day at 14 ect...). Ranged hunter: If a hunter who chose this style at 1st level at 6th level he gains the benefits of Improved Rapid Shot. even if he does not meet the prerequisites. Spear & Shield: At 6th leve if a hunter chose this style at 1st level the hunter gains the benefits of the Shield Slam feat even if he does not meet the prerequisites. Style Mastery: Dance of Blades: At 11th Level a Hunter who chose this style at 1st level gains the benefits of the Improved Two Weapon Fighting and Two weapon Defence feats. even if he does not meet the prerequisites. Ranged Hunter: At 11th level, a hunter who chose this style at 1st level gains the ability to multiply each range increment for thrown weapons by three (I.e. a javelin can be thrown 90 feet at no penalty while a net may be thrown 30 feet at np penalty). Spear & Shield: At 11th level a hunter who chose this style at 1st level gains the benefits of the Sheild Charge feat in addition to his shield doing more damage (1D4 for small shields, and 1D6 for large shields). what do you all think???
oberyn 12-30-04, 07:17 AM	oh yea he gains the same dodge bonus to his AC as a monk.
Green 12-30-04, 12:33 PM	Very interesting concept. Honestly, I prefer the variant monk over the variant ranger version. The difficulty in trying to emulate African-themed martial arts is emphasizing the spiritual element. In many African cultures, religion was and is not something that was separate from everyday life, so the idea of a type of warrior who integrates spirituality with martialry needs to have something extra. Yet, there is precedence for the concept of people living outside ordinary society who perform the vital function of acting as intermediaries between the mortal world and the spirit world. Historically, this individuals were often people who'd be marginalized in contemporary Western societies because of their more ambiguous gender identity (namely, the LGBT community). While I don't recall whether or not these people were warriors, I don't think making them so works against the idea. I'd model them after monks and give suitable alternatives to the Asian-styled names of some of the abilities, as well as more appropriate weapon proficiencies. You could, if you wanted, give them a 4-level spell progression like the paladin and ranger, but focus on buff spells and spells that help with interacting with other planes. I'd call it a spirit warrior or something like that.