Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tectorman 01-30-08, 01:53 PM	The CW Samurai is one of the better NPC classes I've seen. The OA Samurai is decent, relying on feats, good skills, good saves, and the ability to magically enhance his weapon without spending the first XP (who else can do that? honestly?) The Rokugan Samurai is the same as the OA, except while he must spend XP, he doesn't spend gold. (A comparison to the Soulknife, who gets a +5 weapon without trying and that can even remain so in an AMF comes to mind, but that's beside the point.) Then I saw someone in my group use a Quintessential Samurai (third-party book, the entirety is devoted to this class). It's basically the same as the second two, except it gets more feats and the option to change them out for singular attacks (expend ki points, gain a bonus and accept a penalty). However, there are a few confusing parts of this class. We're not playing that campaign right now, so I can't really ask that guy to explain it to me, so is there anyone here who I can ask instead?
Thane26425 01-30-08, 02:38 PM	I don't have that particular book, but I do have them for wizards, fighters and Clerics. There is good material in them, but not all would be suitable for all campaigns. They are basically like what the previous D&D owners had with their complete handbooks series. The Fighter's books have systems like you are talking about. Systems where the fighter can spend points to gain special moves. It was a complicated and sort of clunky system that seemed to leave out key points in the explanation. As such, I don't use them, because it just leads to arguments with players over how it is supposed to be handled. Coud you give a brief description of just one of the problems?
Tectorman 01-31-08, 03:23 PM	1.) The table and the text for the base class entry don't quite match. The Specials part of the table says: 1: Sword School Feat, Exotic Weapon Proficiency 2: Bonus Feat 4: Sword School Feat 6: Bonus Feat 8: Sword School Feat 10: Improved Two-Weapon Fighting Feat 12: Sword School Feat 14: Daisho Fighting Feat 16, 18, and 20: Bonus Feat The text gives EWP for the Katana at 1st level (no problems there), a bonus feat from a list of feats at levels 2, 6, 10, 16, 18, and 20, and a bonus feat just from a list of Sword Style feats at levels 4, 8, and 12. What about the Daisho Fighting Feat at level 14? Does the text mean that the bonus feat at level 10 doesn't necessarily have to be ITWF? And if the feat does have to be ITWF at level 10, is it just assumed that every Samurai is going to take TWF sometime before then? How many ki points does a Samurai have all total? What I gathering from reading it is: it's not so much how many ki points you have left as how many you've used. You can use, theoretically, an infinite amount of ki points until your spent ki points + your subdual (nonlethal) damage = your current hit point total. Is that right? A Samurai can spend ki to grant his katana an enhancement bonus of up to +5 and can add a total of 5 special weapon abilities to his katana by level 20 (or 7 if he takes Ancestral Katana), right? Once he picks, say, acidic burst, for his katana, he may not change this choice, correct? What if he asks someone with Craft Magic Arms and Armor to enhance his weapon? Say it's been enhanced with 5 special weapon abilities already. Can he still pick his own to add to it? What about the Ancestral Katana feat then? And what about the Summoning special ability? How does that work? Would his number of ki points spent always be at least 10 from that point on? That's all the questions I have so far.
Thane26425 01-31-08, 05:09 PM	What you have there sounds like their variant of the Samurai, which you can use or in place of the D&D original one. The ki system sounds just like the fighter's system and has the same problem. It never said how to determine how many points you had, just one things cost. The point system never was well explained. I suppose you could just decide on a number, I think there was an action points system in Unearthed Arcana that could be used as a base. I would think Daisho should come earlier than level 14. As for the rest, that is a good question. I reads like the Kenasi ability in the Complete Fighter. In that, the Kensai bound to an unenchanted weapon and I don't think it could be enchanted aside from the Kensai's bonding with it. That means no, he couldn't add on to otherwise enchanted weapons. I don't know about the summoning thing though. OVerall, it sounds like the fighter book. The points system was the only thing there that didn't make sense.
MagusBlack 02-01-08, 11:14 PM	AHHH! I can help you hear, I own particular book of Mongoose Publishing so I’ll try an give you some evaluation and you coin in anything you need answered that I missed. All right for starters: like all books there are errors and sometimes you gotta roll with the punches. For the record a Samurai is proficient with: The Daisho (the katana and wakizashi, normally, but may at DM approval change to other weapons), ALL bows (ironically this will mean even exotic ones, if included in the game: ex Great Bow form Complete Warrior), all light and medium armors, and shields. And the begin play with 2 feats: Exotic Weapon Proficiency, and one that is tied to a one of the Sword Styles (a list I will send you if you ask politely J). They 2 good saves (will and reflexes) and full-BAB (Base Attack Bonus). Now at 2nd, 6th, 16th, 18th, 20th they gain bonus feats as a Fighter would, without question. Now that Sword School feat you took at Level One will determine the feat-chain that acquire at levels 4, 8, and 12 (The list, again, I will provide if asked to do so). Take HEED you MAY take the feats on the chosen feat-chain prior to the level acquired...BUT if you do you gain NO feat for that level…patience is a virtue. Now at levels 10 and 14 may be errors that were unintended or they can be there for a reason. If your DM chooses to they way be converted into regular bonus feats, if the idea grates him/her enough. Now for KI: Simple you “Ki Pool” is equal to your hit points and can thought of as a second Subdue Damage… in fact the rules are exactly the same. If your total reaches 0 you fall unconscious: Example: [Samurai X] Has 30 HP and has taken 10 lethal damage (from swords, arrows, spells whatnot), 10 subdue damage (punched in the face by the elf-boss), and has used 10 Ki points (from pulling off one of his tricks)…his total is equal to his hit points (30) and he loses conscious. Okay weapon properties! For starters they are very temporary, you must spend the listed cost every minute (and it takes a full-round action to activate) in order to maintain it. The Enhancement Bonus (+1 to +5) are the same REGARDLESS of the current Enhancement Bonus and that bonus can only be applied if you are at the proper level. Special Qualities like wise require you to be at a certain level to activate. You cannot manifest ANY ability until level 4...and that level you can only choose ONE special Quality to apply at that time (each one has a different cost and all last for 1 minute before ’recharging’) with the higher ones taking more Ki to use. No continuing that you can chose another Quality at levels 10, 16, 18, 20. Ancestral Weapon allows you to chose 2 more to add to that list… at a price. Questions!! :cool:
Thane26425 02-02-08, 12:23 PM	Magusblack, Good take on all this. Perhaps that is how the Technique Points or whatever they were called in the Fighter's book were supposed to work, too. I'll have to find that one and reread that section. Perhaps it will make more sense.
Tectorman 02-08-08, 12:30 PM	MagusBlack, thank you very much. But I'm still not clear on the weapon enhancements. The Samurai, depending on his level and whether he took that ancestral katana feat, can have up to a +5 enhancement bonus and 7 special weapon abilities active on his katana, assuming he's spent the ki points to do all that. This assumes a normal nonmagical masterwork katana. So what about a magical one? I assume that if it's, say, a +2 katana, that the Samurai could spend ki points necessary to give it a +2 bonus and it'd just overlap (+2 enhancement on top of a +2 enhancement) and nothing new would happen. It'd only be after he applied an enhancement bonus greater than the existing enhancement bonus that anything would be gained from this. So what about the special weapon qualities? Could he, in theory, have a +5 weapon with the equivalent of a +5 effective enhancement bonus, and then put up to 7 more special weapon qualities on top of it?
MagusBlack 02-10-08, 12:55 AM	More questions. Alright I’ll clarify…here’s the chart for the Maximum Enhancement Bonus that you can grant your weapon, like the ‘new’ :rolleyes: kensai (as a note the Weapon Master was far better),. Lv E.B Ki/minute 1-3 +0 0 4-6 +1 5 7-10 +2 10 11-13 +3 10 14-15 +4 15 16+ +5 15 So a weapon that is already +1 weapon can be enhanced for one minute by paying 10 ki and by being at least level 4. Likewise turning a +1 to a +5 cost 15 ki and must be level 16 to attempt. Special Qualities are the same. If your +1 weapon is already (example) ‘flaming’, then having ‘flaming’ as one of your “Awakened Qualities” is a waste. You see you pay for ‘each’ effect when you activate them, which takes a Full-round Action each. You can also only activate 1 quality at a time (the previously activated quality immediately ends), unless you have the Ancestral Channeling feat (sadly this one of the errors I spoke of, as it doesn’t seem to be in the book, but lets assume you have it for the rest of the discussion…perhaps its in another book…or I‘m blind?) For instance you have “Frost” and “Thundering” as qualities, you activate Frost (spending 5/minute) one round and then Thundering (spending 10/minute) the other; you thus spend a total of 15 ki to have a the “Thundering and Frost” effects on your weapon…even if its only masterwork. So here’s a further example. You have a are Samurai 16 (or whatever combination of Samurai +Samurai Prestige classes) and have a +1 Flaming Katana. Round 1: Turn Sword to +5 (15 ki) Round 2: Adds Frost Quality (5 ki) Round 3: Adds Thundering (10 ki) At the end of Round 3 you are now holding a +5 Flaming Thundering Frost Katana for the total cost of 30 ki. The +5 lasts for 8 more rounds, Frost for 9; and Thundering for the full 10 rounds. But lets take this up a “the Next Level:” You start with a +5 Vorpal Katana You can activate any ability to exceed the normal Enchantment Maximum, even extremely so. Like Adding Haste (20 ki/minute) Or Adding Brilliant Energy (20 ki/minute) Or Adding Honorable (20 ki/minute) Or any other effect that would bring it above +10 total E.B. Ohhh yes I ‘did’ forget to mention, the book has a “Honor Score” that is absolutely important for this subject. You see if you use more ki than your Honor Score each round you take 1 point of Wisdom temporary damage each time (for each 5 points, or fraction thereof, you take an additional point of damage)…so unless your Honor score is 15 then activating the +4/5 affect will cause you to take 1 Wisdom TD. So the lower the honor the less you can use without backlash.