Anyone played a Hexblade? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Anyone played a Hexblade? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
gamerdork
05-25-06, 10:59 PM Specifically to at least level 3.

Wondering if the class ability Mettle comes into play very often... it appears to be very much like Evasion, but for Fort and Will saves.

Perhaps players of Hexblades could list a few spells against which it has actually helped out. I looked through most of the Cleric spells and found only a few instances in which it might actually come into play; haven't had a chance to look at Wizard spells yet.

Thanks in advance for any input,
Corey

Game On!
Yue Ryong
05-25-06, 11:04 PM I've played one. Up to level 15 (Well, he wasn't pure Hexblade at that point, but never mind). I never used Mettle, but the DM of that campaign didn't seem all that interested in using caster types. He was much more fond of Melee-ers in general, so it probably isn't an enourmously fair test of Mettle. I know that even in a normal campaign, a Reflex save will turn up far more often than either of the others. Easily enough to say that Evasion applying to to only one save and Mettle applying to the other two is about balanced.
Vaelan
05-26-06, 12:03 AM I found Mettle to be of little use as a Hexblade. There are too few effects that it applies to and the secondary effects of that which it does apply to are usually extremely minor.

In a setting that uses psionics I would expect it to be more helpful though as there are a number of powers that are Will based and a few more that are Fortitude-based.
Cainin
05-26-06, 11:17 AM It really depending on your DM's running preferences. Some DM's have big things for death spells (Disintigrate, Slay Living, etc) or for Harms (and inflicts at low levels). Others prefer Evasion proof AOE damage effects. Obviously Mettle or Evasion would be more preferable based on those criteria.

Also Mettle comes into play in a big way if your GM has a fondness for Psionics. I've lost count of hoiw many times Mettle saved my melee fighter from mind screwing psions/wilders. Ego Whipping someone to death who doesn't have Mettle tends to be rather easy. Or the Fort for half versions of Energy Bolt.

Dipping 3 levels of melee classes for Mettle and Arcane Resistance are almost always worth it to some degree. But as for playing a pure bred Hexblade to higher levels, I'm not sure. I haven't had the chance to do it yet and it greatly depends on both GM and player running/playing styles.
gamerdork
05-27-06, 10:17 AM Thanks all of you, I appreciate the comments.

After further study and reading these posts, I think I'll be straying from Hexblade 2 and starting into Duskblade levels. The Duskblade spell list is more like I imagined the Hexblade list should be anyway (antagonizing and de-buffing one bad guy).

Plus, I'd want to use the PH2 level 4 Hexblade ability instead of summon familiar, and the 100 gp cost is looking to be very steep in my DMs [very] low-fantasy game.

Thanks,
Corey

Game On!
Cadfan
05-27-06, 03:17 PM I've DMed for a hexblade. The mettle ability came into play twice in a campaign that lasted about 10 sessions. Once with a fear effect, and once with a fatiguing effect.

It wasn't exactly an earthshaking ability, but the player certainly didn't mind the benefit.
Eyeless Blond
05-27-06, 03:59 PM One place Mettle really comes in handy is against [Shadow] descriptor spells, or even illusions in general. A hexblade with Mettle can totally screw over someone using Shadow conjuration/evocation, as making the will save means the spell is completely ineffective instead of 20-110% effective.
Northwest
05-29-06, 08:37 PM My fighter would have loved Mettle. In one case, we knew we would be rushing a cleric that most likely had Harm prepared and I took it, made the save and still took ~70 hp.
utilitarian
05-29-06, 10:08 PM Mettle may not be as often used as Evasion, but there are times when it can save your kiester.

Take the Jovoc for instance. The retributive damage field returns any damage given to it to every opponent within 30 feet, fort save for half. Assuming your players are not metagaming the knoweldge of this ability beforehand, this can lead to some pretty sticky situations. A character with Mettle on the other hand and a decent Fort save can safely hack away without taking damage.
Hariman
05-30-06, 12:04 AM Mettle is situational, but useful. Arcane resistance is better, but both add a great deal when combined. Shoot for a 14 Cha minimum, 16 if you can manage it.

The PHB2 Hexblade alternate class feature is MUCH better than a familiar. The Dark Companion might not scale, but it has no save. (And maybe SR.) Definitely get the dark companion. Move the Companion next to an enemy THEN let a curse fly.

The key to builing a good Hexblade is to either make him ranged. Or use a Polearm or other reach weapon to keep a little further away from melee.
belthazzar1113
05-30-06, 02:59 AM mettle is alot better than people give it credit for.... just depends on the game your in.

My dm was very very fond of clerics and necromancers useing inflict spells, harm, and negitive energy explosion. all of which are fort or will save for half. its also one of the few abilities that can protect against the massive hit from disintigrate.

if you fight necromancers, beguilers, clerics, or undead with any fequincy then mettle is going to get more milage than evasion. And since those are generally "the bad guys" in most of my games mettle is very very powerful.

As far as monsters go you are looking at a great illithid defense, undead very often have fort save or damage powers, a great many things have fear effects and fear auras, especially at higher level when things have auras that affect different classes of hit dice. a hexblade is one of the few people who would stand near the epic level atropol and not instantly lose ten levels. And yes, that has come up when the atropol we unearthed was looking to make an emessary to the mortal races it choose a hexblade/shadowknight. made for a hell of a villan.

it really does depend on the game your in. Alot of people arn't going to like mettle because its not as wide spread as evasion, but if you know when it helps and you know the situations and types of enemies it will help against you can get alot of use out of it.
doorknobdeity
05-30-06, 03:30 PM Out of curiousity, what do you think of changing the dark companion to simply a 5' (or even 10') aura centered on the hexblade?
Northwest
05-30-06, 04:45 PM It is probably a fairly even trade. You lose the flexibility of sending the companion to a part of the battle you aren't at, but gain ease of use. You might need to make it a visible effect to offer the same option of dispelling that the companion has.
ninjarabbit
05-30-06, 08:51 PM Out of curiousity, what do you think of changing the dark companion to simply a 5' (or even 10') aura centered on the hexblade?

It'd be nasty with aura of dispair from blackguard
Hariman
05-31-06, 01:25 AM It'd be nasty with aura of dispair from blackguard

But you'd lose the ability to keep it on the enemy if you have to withdraw to the cleric for healing.
Soel Griffin
05-31-06, 03:13 AM I've asked before, but not gotten any responses. Do you think that the Dark Companion ability from PHII is supposed to not allow a save, or does it need errata? It seems really powerful without one. Thoughts?
Lokathor
05-31-06, 05:40 AM It doesn't allow a will save because it shouldn't. If an enemy doesn't want to be targeted, they just move away from it and then do whatever.
Cainin
05-31-06, 08:03 AM Or just get rid of the Dark Companion entirely. A simple Dispel Magic will kill it for 24 hours. Since its effective caster level for dispelling purposes is at 1/4 Hexblade class level, it tends to be rather easy.
danielinthewolvesden
05-31-06, 10:24 AM Mettle is a lifesaver. Trust me. I watched a Hexblade whup a beholder due to a good touch AC, his curse (which isn't affected by the AM ray big eye), and Mettle.

But the "Dark Companion" isn't such a good idea- as they now have a great Feat in PHII. This feat allows your familiar to "take a hit" for you (or less likel, the other way around) if you would be reduced below 0 HP. And, generally, a Hexblades familar has scads of HP. Basicly, for the cost of a feat, you get one "lifesaver' a day. Very nice.

However, I can't see too many reasons to take Hexblade beyond 4 levels. What is nice is that Dragon Disciple- a "trap" for Sorcerors- works very well as a PrC for a hexblade.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
gamerdork 05-25-06, 10:59 PM	Specifically to at least level 3. Wondering if the class ability Mettle comes into play very often... it appears to be very much like Evasion, but for Fort and Will saves. Perhaps players of Hexblades could list a few spells against which it has actually helped out. I looked through most of the Cleric spells and found only a few instances in which it might actually come into play; haven't had a chance to look at Wizard spells yet. Thanks in advance for any input, Corey Game On!
Yue Ryong 05-25-06, 11:04 PM	I've played one. Up to level 15 (Well, he wasn't pure Hexblade at that point, but never mind). I never used Mettle, but the DM of that campaign didn't seem all that interested in using caster types. He was much more fond of Melee-ers in general, so it probably isn't an enourmously fair test of Mettle. I know that even in a normal campaign, a Reflex save will turn up far more often than either of the others. Easily enough to say that Evasion applying to to only one save and Mettle applying to the other two is about balanced.
Vaelan 05-26-06, 12:03 AM	I found Mettle to be of little use as a Hexblade. There are too few effects that it applies to and the secondary effects of that which it does apply to are usually extremely minor. In a setting that uses psionics I would expect it to be more helpful though as there are a number of powers that are Will based and a few more that are Fortitude-based.
Cainin 05-26-06, 11:17 AM	It really depending on your DM's running preferences. Some DM's have big things for death spells (Disintigrate, Slay Living, etc) or for Harms (and inflicts at low levels). Others prefer Evasion proof AOE damage effects. Obviously Mettle or Evasion would be more preferable based on those criteria. Also Mettle comes into play in a big way if your GM has a fondness for Psionics. I've lost count of hoiw many times Mettle saved my melee fighter from mind screwing psions/wilders. Ego Whipping someone to death who doesn't have Mettle tends to be rather easy. Or the Fort for half versions of Energy Bolt. Dipping 3 levels of melee classes for Mettle and Arcane Resistance are almost always worth it to some degree. But as for playing a pure bred Hexblade to higher levels, I'm not sure. I haven't had the chance to do it yet and it greatly depends on both GM and player running/playing styles.
gamerdork 05-27-06, 10:17 AM	Thanks all of you, I appreciate the comments. After further study and reading these posts, I think I'll be straying from Hexblade 2 and starting into Duskblade levels. The Duskblade spell list is more like I imagined the Hexblade list should be anyway (antagonizing and de-buffing one bad guy). Plus, I'd want to use the PH2 level 4 Hexblade ability instead of summon familiar, and the 100 gp cost is looking to be very steep in my DMs [very] low-fantasy game. Thanks, Corey Game On!
Cadfan 05-27-06, 03:17 PM	I've DMed for a hexblade. The mettle ability came into play twice in a campaign that lasted about 10 sessions. Once with a fear effect, and once with a fatiguing effect. It wasn't exactly an earthshaking ability, but the player certainly didn't mind the benefit.
Eyeless Blond 05-27-06, 03:59 PM	One place Mettle really comes in handy is against [Shadow] descriptor spells, or even illusions in general. A hexblade with Mettle can totally screw over someone using Shadow conjuration/evocation, as making the will save means the spell is completely ineffective instead of 20-110% effective.
Northwest 05-29-06, 08:37 PM	My fighter would have loved Mettle. In one case, we knew we would be rushing a cleric that most likely had Harm prepared and I took it, made the save and still took ~70 hp.
utilitarian 05-29-06, 10:08 PM	Mettle may not be as often used as Evasion, but there are times when it can save your kiester. Take the Jovoc for instance. The retributive damage field returns any damage given to it to every opponent within 30 feet, fort save for half. Assuming your players are not metagaming the knoweldge of this ability beforehand, this can lead to some pretty sticky situations. A character with Mettle on the other hand and a decent Fort save can safely hack away without taking damage.
Hariman 05-30-06, 12:04 AM	Mettle is situational, but useful. Arcane resistance is better, but both add a great deal when combined. Shoot for a 14 Cha minimum, 16 if you can manage it. The PHB2 Hexblade alternate class feature is MUCH better than a familiar. The Dark Companion might not scale, but it has no save. (And maybe SR.) Definitely get the dark companion. Move the Companion next to an enemy THEN let a curse fly. The key to builing a good Hexblade is to either make him ranged. Or use a Polearm or other reach weapon to keep a little further away from melee.
belthazzar1113 05-30-06, 02:59 AM	mettle is alot better than people give it credit for.... just depends on the game your in. My dm was very very fond of clerics and necromancers useing inflict spells, harm, and negitive energy explosion. all of which are fort or will save for half. its also one of the few abilities that can protect against the massive hit from disintigrate. if you fight necromancers, beguilers, clerics, or undead with any fequincy then mettle is going to get more milage than evasion. And since those are generally "the bad guys" in most of my games mettle is very very powerful. As far as monsters go you are looking at a great illithid defense, undead very often have fort save or damage powers, a great many things have fear effects and fear auras, especially at higher level when things have auras that affect different classes of hit dice. a hexblade is one of the few people who would stand near the epic level atropol and not instantly lose ten levels. And yes, that has come up when the atropol we unearthed was looking to make an emessary to the mortal races it choose a hexblade/shadowknight. made for a hell of a villan. it really does depend on the game your in. Alot of people arn't going to like mettle because its not as wide spread as evasion, but if you know when it helps and you know the situations and types of enemies it will help against you can get alot of use out of it.
doorknobdeity 05-30-06, 03:30 PM	Out of curiousity, what do you think of changing the dark companion to simply a 5' (or even 10') aura centered on the hexblade?
Northwest 05-30-06, 04:45 PM	It is probably a fairly even trade. You lose the flexibility of sending the companion to a part of the battle you aren't at, but gain ease of use. You might need to make it a visible effect to offer the same option of dispelling that the companion has.
ninjarabbit 05-30-06, 08:51 PM	Out of curiousity, what do you think of changing the dark companion to simply a 5' (or even 10') aura centered on the hexblade? It'd be nasty with aura of dispair from blackguard
Hariman 05-31-06, 01:25 AM	It'd be nasty with aura of dispair from blackguard But you'd lose the ability to keep it on the enemy if you have to withdraw to the cleric for healing.
Soel Griffin 05-31-06, 03:13 AM	I've asked before, but not gotten any responses. Do you think that the Dark Companion ability from PHII is supposed to not allow a save, or does it need errata? It seems really powerful without one. Thoughts?
Lokathor 05-31-06, 05:40 AM	It doesn't allow a will save because it shouldn't. If an enemy doesn't want to be targeted, they just move away from it and then do whatever.
Cainin 05-31-06, 08:03 AM	Or just get rid of the Dark Companion entirely. A simple Dispel Magic will kill it for 24 hours. Since its effective caster level for dispelling purposes is at 1/4 Hexblade class level, it tends to be rather easy.
danielinthewolvesden 05-31-06, 10:24 AM	Mettle is a lifesaver. Trust me. I watched a Hexblade whup a beholder due to a good touch AC, his curse (which isn't affected by the AM ray big eye), and Mettle. But the "Dark Companion" isn't such a good idea- as they now have a great Feat in PHII. This feat allows your familiar to "take a hit" for you (or less likel, the other way around) if you would be reduced below 0 HP. And, generally, a Hexblades familar has scads of HP. Basicly, for the cost of a feat, you get one "lifesaver' a day. Very nice. However, I can't see too many reasons to take Hexblade beyond 4 levels. What is nice is that Dragon Disciple- a "trap" for Sorcerors- works very well as a PrC for a hexblade.