Post/Author/DateTime	Post
aotrscommander 02-17-07, 07:50 PM	I've done some more tweaks to my Fighter 'fix' and rather than bump the other thread I thought it would be tidier and clearer to create a new one. This tweak does not attempt to give the fighters any new abilities as such, but more to expand on their flexibility and choice of options. It is designed with the intention of making at higher level, several feats 'scale' in that Fighters (and to a lesser extent Warriors) gain more out of them than other classes, representing that a pure fighter (or even warrior) is becoming a better professional soldier; they are learning all the dirty tricks and tactics over the course of their career and just become plain 'better' through sheer skill. This is not a complete 'fix' (though opening out Martial Study might arguably go a long way), but it does offer some nasty combinations, plus a new capstone ability. I would welcome any suggestions and remarks, especially additional feat 'enchancement' suggestions1 So, without further ado: FIGHTER Base Attack Fort Reflex Will Level Bonus Save Save Save Special 1st +1 +2 +0 +0 Bonus Fighter Feat 2nd +2 +3 +0 +0 Bonus Fighter Feat 3rd +3 +3 +1 +1 Bonus Feat 4th +4 +4 +1 +1 Bonus Fighter Feat 5th +5 +4 +1 +1 Bonus Feat 6th +6/+1 +5 +2 +2 Bonus Fighter Feat 7th +7/+2 +5 +2 +2 Bonus Feat 8th +8/+3 +6 +2 +2 Bonus Fighter Feat 9th +9/+4 +6 +3 +3 Bonus Feat 10th +10/+5 +7 +3 +3 Bonus Fighter Feat 11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +3 +3 Bonus Feat 12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +4 +4 Bonus Fighter Feat 13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +4 +4 Bonus Feat 14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +4 +4 Bonus Fighter Feat 15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +5 +5 Bonus Feat 16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +5 +5 Bonus Fighter Feat 17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +5 Bonus Feat 18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +6 Bonus Fighter Feat 19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +6 Bonus Feat 20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +6 Bonus Fighter Feat, Relentless Strike Otherwise as PHB Fighter. Bonus Fighter Feat: At 1st, 2nd and every even level thereafter, a Fighter gains a feat from the Fighter bonus feat list. Bonus Feat: At 3rd level and every odd level thereafter, a Fighter gains a bonus Feat. This may be any type of feat, like that gained upon level up. Relentless Strike (Ex): Once per day for every 5 class levels, when making a full attack, any extra attacks granted by spells, powers or abilities stack (even if normally they would not) to a maximum of four additional attacks. In addition, each extra attack applies to each of the Fighter’s manufactured weapons. WARRIOR Base Attack Fort Reflex Will Level Bonus Save Save Save Special 1st +1 +2 +0 +0 Bonus Fighter Feat 2nd +2 +3 +0 +0 3rd +3 +3 +1 +1 Bonus Fighter Feat 4th +4 +4 +1 +1 5th +5 +4 +1 +1 6th +6/+1 +5 +2 +2 Bonus Fighter Feat 7th +7/+2 +5 +2 +2 8th +8/+3 +6 +2 +2 9th +9/+4 +6 +3 +3 Bonus Fighter Feat 10th +10/+5 +7 +3 +3 11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +3 +3 12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +4 +4 Bonus Fighter Feat 13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +4 +4 14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +4 +4 15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +5 +5 Bonus Fighter Feat 16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +5 +5 17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +5 18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +6 Bonus Fighter Feat 19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +6 20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +6 Otherwise as DMG Warrior. Bonus Fighter Feat: at 1st and again 3rd level and every 3rd level thereafter (6th, 9th etc), Warriors get a bonus Fighter Feat, chosen from the Fighter Bonus Feat list (but not those which have Fighter class levels as a prerequisite, e.g. Weapon Specialisation). You're in the Army Now: The difference between Warriors and Fighters is simple training; Fighters are professional soldiers, Warriors are not. So it is possible to train warriors into Fighters. All this takes is time and a teacher. To train a Warrior into a Fighter requires a month of training by a Fighter. At the end of the training, the Fighter makes a Profession (Teacher)2. The DC is 20+(the Fighter's level - the Warrior's level)+2 for every doubling of number of students (+2 for two, +4 for four, +6 for eight etc). Additional trainers may use Aid Another over the same time period. The Warrior must succeed a DC 10 Int check. If both these check suceed, the Warrior's Class changes to Fighter, his hit points are recalculated with a D10 HD (to a minimum of hi current hits). The feats he gained from his levels of Warrior are retained, and can be 'moved' (provided that doing so does not violate pre-requisites like BAB etc,) to empty Fighter Bonus or Bonus Feat slots. If the first check fails, the Fighter and warrior may attempt again after another month's training. If the second check fails, the Warrior may attempt another Intelligence check after another two weeks of training (the trainers do not have to make a roll for this period, just provide training). The Warrior fills his 'empty' feat slots in two ways. First, when he rises a level, he may fill any empty slots just as if he gained them at level up (remembering to check the level each slot was gained). Second, a Fighter can train him in any feat that he qualifies for that the fighter knows. doing so takes a week per Feat. The Fighter makes a DC 10 Profession (Teacher) check (+2 for every doubling of numbers of students as above). If this check suceeds, the Warrior makes a DC 10 Int check. If both checks pass, the Warrior has learned the Feat and fills the 'empty' slot. If the Warrior fails the Int check, he may try again after another week's practise (but he does not need to be provided with training during this time), until he either fails five times in a row (in which case he must be retrained again) or he succeeds and learns the feat. Expanded Feats Characters with levels in Fighter (and sometimes Warrior) can gain additional benefits from certain feats. These benefits apply to characters with levels of Fighter or Warrior, regardless of whether the levels or feats are picked first. Note that these are not pre-requisites and as such, class abilities that allow other classes to count as Fighters (e.g. a Warblade's Wapon Aptitude do not apply; only actual class levels of Fighter or Warrior count. Note also that these feats were not picked with any specific purpose - they all just happened to have abilities which I thought could be 'enhanced'. You will note I've not scaled any feats which deal with direct attack or damage (as frankly, Fighters don't do too bad in that regard as far as my own experience goes). Crossbow Sniper [General]: Special: A character with at least 3 levels of Fighter or Warrior may apply his full Dex bonus to Crossbow damage. Greater Multiweapon Fighting [General]: Special: A character with at least 11 levels of Fighter may apply his full Strength bonus to his tertiary off-hand attacks. Greater Two-Weapon Fighting [General]: Special: A character with at least 11 levels of Fighter may apply his full Strength bonus to his tertiary off-hand attack. Guerilla Scout [General] Special: A character with at least one level of Fighter or Warrior doubles the number of ranks of Spot and Listen bought as Cross-Class skills from his Fighter levels prior to taking this feat (to a maximum of his maximum ranks). Guerilla Warrior [General] Special: A character with at least one level of Fighter or Warrior doubles the number of ranks of Hide and Move Silently bought as Cross-Class skills from his Fighter levels prior to taking this feat (to a maximum of his maximum ranks). Improved Critical [General] Special: A character with at least 8 levels of Fighter may stack the effect of this feat with another effect that improves threat range (though the other effects do not stack with themselves if they could not before). Improved Overrun [General] Special: A character with at least 9 levels of Fighter does not provoke an attack of oppurtunity when attempting to Overrun a foe. Improved Trip [General] Special: A character with at least 5 levels of Fighter may attempt to trip with any melee weapon. If he is tripped during his own trip attempt, he may drop the weapon in order to avoid being tripped. When wielding weapons that normally allow a Trip attempt to be made, the Fighter gains a further +2 bonus to his rolls. Special: A character with at least 12 levels of Fighter adds the bonus of this feat to checks to resist being tripped. In addition, creatures cannot drop their weapons to avoid being tripped if they fail to trip you (they may drop their weapon after the trip attempt is resolved). Improved Multiweapon Fighting [General]: Special: A character with at least 6 levels of Fighter may apply his full Strength bonus to his secondary off-hand attacks. Improved Two-Weapon Fighting [General]: Special: A character with at least 6 levels of Fighter may apply his full Strength bonus to his secondary off-hand attack. Iron Will [General]: Special: If a character with at least one level of Fighter or Warrior selects this feat, he does not gain a +2 to his Will save; rather his Will save progression becomes Good (½ Fighter level +2). This benefit retroactively applies if a character has this feat and gains a level of Fighter or Warrior. Lightning Reflexes [General]: Special: If a character with at least one level of Fighter or Warrior selects this feat, he does not gain a +2 to his Reflex save; rather his Reflex save progression becomes Good (½ Fighter level +2). This benefit retroactively applies if a character has this feat and gains a level of Fighter or Warrior. Martial Study [General] Special: A character with at least one levels of Fighter can select this feat a number of times equal to 3+his Fighter level. A Fighter with levels in a Martial Adept level does not have to associate manoeuvres from this feat with his adept levels if he does not wish. Multiweapon Fighting [General]: Special: A character with at least one level of Fighter may apply his full Strength bonus to his primary off-hand attacks. Open Minded [General]: Special: A character with at least one level of Fighter or Warrior who selects this feat gains a number of additional skill points equal to their Fighter or Warrior level +3 (on top of the five granted by this feat) and may choose any skill to treat as a class skill for their Fighter or Warrior levels. The character doubles the number of any cross class ranks bought from Fighter or Warrior levels from that skill in the past (to a maximum of the max ranks). Everytime they advance a further Fighter or Warrior level, they gain +1 skill point. The second time a Fighter or Warrior gains this feat, the same benefits as above apply again. The third or subsequent times this feat is chosen, it only provides five skill points. Short Haft [General]: Special: A character with at least 6 levels of Fighter or Warrior may change the reach as a Free Action rather than a Swift Action. Spirited Charge [General] Special: A character with at least 8 levels of Fighter may make a free trip attempt on an opponent hit during the charge attack. The opponent may not try to trip him in return. Sudden Recovery [General]Special: A character with at least one level of Fighter can use this feat 3+Con bonus times per day, but only for maneuvers for which he has no normal recovery method (i.e. not associated with Adept class levels). If he has martial adept levels, he may expend one of these uses per day to regain a manouevre from his adept levels as normal. Superior Unarmed Strike [General] Prerequisite: Improved Unarmed Strike, base attack bonus +3 or Fighter level 1st Special: A Fighter may select Superior Unarmed Strike as one of his bonus feats. Special: A character with at least one level of Fighter adds +2 to his effective character level for determining Unarmed Damage with this feat. Twin Whirlwind [General]: Prerequisite: Dex 19, Int 13, Combat Expertise, Dodge, Greater Two-Weapon Fighting or Greater Multiweapon Fighting, Mobility, Spring Attack, Whirlwind Attack, Fighter level 16 Benefit: When you make a Full Attack action, you give up your regular attacks and instead make one melee at your full base attack bonus for each of your weapons against each opponent within reach. Your usual penalties to your primary attacks with each hand for Two-Weapon Fighting apply. When you use the Twin Whirlwind feat, your also forfit any bonus or extra attacks granted by other feats or abilities (such as the Cleave feat or the Haste spell). Special: A Fighter may select Twin Whirlwind as one of his bonus feats. Special: A character with at least 16 levels of Fighter does not forfit any extra attack when using Twin Whirlwind (i.e, Cleave, Haste). Two-Weapon Fighting [General]: Special: A character with at least one level of Fighter may apply his full Strength bonus to his primary off-hand attack. Vexing Flanker [General]: Special: A character with at least one level of Fighter counts his Fighter level as Rogue levels for the purpose of negating Uncanny Dodge. Whirlwind Attack [General]: Special: A character with at least 12 levels of Fighter does not forfit any extra attack when using Whirlwind Attack (i.e, Cleave, Haste), though they do from any off-hand attacks. 1Though I ask you to keep mainly to the Completes, Core, PHB2, XPH, UT, HoB and ToB and Libris Mortis, since that's what I use; anything outside this is welcome to be suggested, but will be understandably of less use to me! 2This could be easily substituted with an appropriate Profession like (Soldier) or something, I'm not sure...
Maraxus 02-17-07, 08:59 PM	"The difference between Warriors and Fighters is simple training; Fighters are professional soldiers, Warriors are not." Hm, I prefer the version, that warriors are the troop soldiers, while fighter have special training and "lone fighter" experience. About the warrior: he allready is a good NPC-class. I don't see any need here. About the fighter: If you want to fix the fighter: -No class should be limited to 2+Int Skill points. Wizard and Cleric could be an exception, the fighter? Not! -New Über-feats at the end of longer chains, or massively boosted feat-synergies (there was a thread a while ago, seperating feats into Agile feats, weaponery feats etc, with their effect depending on the number of <type> feats, you have. This was a very good fighter fix), or leveling feats (dodge gives +1 dodge bonus to AC ... +1 for every 5 (or something) Levels/BAB, weapon focus likewise to attack). -If you want to give more feats, put them in on the higher levels. I guess, This fighter should be even more balanced: 1: Bonus Feat 2: 3: 4: Bonus Feat 5: 6: 7: Bonus Feat 8: 9: Bonus Feat 10: 11: Bonus Feat 12: 13: Bonus Feat 14: Bonus Feat 15: Bonus Feat 16: 2x Bonus Feat 17: 2x Bonus Feat 18: 2x Bonus Feat 19: 3x Bonus Feat 20: 3x Bonus Feat ... given enough useful (stacking) Bonus feats to choose from. ... Okay, maybe I'm exaggerating a bit, but that's only to make clear what I want to say: Low level = fighter good, high level = fighter bad. About the feats: Some look okay, some I can't decide what to think of. The change to whirlwind is bad.
aotrscommander 02-19-07, 01:24 PM	"The difference between Warriors and Fighters is simple training; Fighters are professional soldiers, Warriors are not." Hm, I prefer the version, that warriors are the troop soldiers, while fighter have special training and "lone fighter" experience. While I don't see Warriors - even after my 'fix' - being anywhere near good enough to qualify as professional soldiers (which there are in abundance is my campaign worlds). A Warrior (pre-'fix' and even post-'fix') just deosn't come close to the standard or say, a Roman Legionary (which is a pertient example, since the new world I'm working on has a major Roman-style culture). But each to his own... About the fighter: If you want to fix the fighter: -No class should be limited to 2+Int Skill points. Wizard and Cleric could be an exception, the fighter? Not! I don't have a problem with this, actually. (Plus as of this fix, there's Open Minded. Hey, I suppose you could add an enhancement there about a Fighter taking this for the first time gets +1 skill point/level (retroactively), maybe taking it a second time gives you another +1/level.) -New Über-feats at the end of longer chains, or massively boosted feat-synergies (there was a thread a while ago, seperating feats into Agile feats, weaponery feats etc, with their effect depending on the number of <type> feats, you have. This was a very good fighter fix), or leveling feats (dodge gives +1 dodge bonus to AC ... +1 for every 5 (or something) Levels/BAB, weapon focus likewise to attack). I've seen lots of feat chains, but frankly, I don't think that the fighter really needs any more raw bonuses. Fighters are still capable of dealing as much raw damage at higher levels as say, Warblades as far as I'm aware. So what I'm aiming to do is expand the Fighter's range of capabilty and allow them to do things that no-one else can do with the same training. In addition, I don't want to bring Fighters completely up to the level of Casters/Adepts, since the world is designed as limited magic, and it rather defeats the object of that if you just replace casters with adepts... --If you want to give more feats, put them in on the higher levels. I guess, This fighter should be even more balanced: I have been reliably informed (in version 1.0 and on the Char-Op boards) that merely granting an extra feat per odd level was not especially over-powered. I have now implimented this change throughout the module I'm converting, and while it does allow multiple options, it isn't overly powerful (which is what I was aiming for.) --The change to whirlwind is bad. How exactly? I don't how allowing a Fighter to Cleave in a Whirlwind attack (or make one extra attack pre-20th level) is really particularly bad. It won't up the damage on point targets (much if at all), but it will allow Fighters to scythe through chaff like nothing else. Which, I think, is kind of their thing, isn't it? Mighty warrior carves path through horde of Goblins/Kobolds/Humans, all fall before him until the only other warrior mighty enough to stand against him comes out...(etc). Compared to area effect attacks, it's still kind of pale in comparison, even with Haste, Great Cleave, Whirlwind Attack and Short Haft and a reach weapon. It's not that often a fighter gets completely surrounded by 24 (medium or small) opponents...
Leress 02-19-07, 02:55 PM	Slapping on more feats will not fix the fighter because there is a fundamental problem with feats in general... "How about instead of being able to travel anywhere in the multiverse, transform yourself into anything you can think of, stop time, and slay everyone you can see, we just give a nice +1 to hit with your secondary weapon? Deal?" Feats were an interesting idea when they were ported to 3rd edition D&D. But let's face it; they don't go nearly far enough. Feats were made extremely conservative in their effects on the game because the authors didn't want to offend people with too radical a change. Well, now we've had third edition for 6 years, and we're offended. Feats are an interesting and tangible way to get unique abilities onto a character, but they have fallen prey to two key fallacies that has ended up turning the entire concept to ashes in our mouths. The first is the idea that if you think of something kind of cool for a character to do, you should make it a feat. That sounds compelling, but you only get 7 feats in your whole life. If you have to spend a feat for every cool thing you ever do, you're not going to do very many cool things in the approximately 260 encounters you'll have on your way from 1st to 20th level. The second is the idea that a feat should be equivalent to a cantrip or two. This one is even less excusable, and just makes us cry. A +1 bonus is something that you seriously might forget that you even have. Having one more +1 bonus doesn't make your character unique, it makes you a sucker for spending one of the half dozen feats you'll ever see on a bonus the other players won't even mention when discussing your character. We all understand this problem, what do we do about it? Well, for starters, Feats have to do more things. Many characters are 5th level or so and they only have 2 feats. Those feats should describe their character in a much more salient way than "I'm no worse shooting into melee than I am shooting at people with cover that isn't my friends." This was begun with the tactical feats, but it didn't go far enough. It's not enough to add additional feats that do something halfway interesting for high level characters to have – we actually have to replace the stupid one dimensional feats in the PHB with feats that rational people would care about in any way. Spending a single feat should be enough to make you a "sniper character" because for a substantial portion of your life you only get one feat. Secondly, we have to clear away feats that don't provide numeric bonuses large enough to care about. The minimum bonus you'll ever notice is +3, because that's actually larger than the difference between having rolled well and having rolled poorly on your starting stats. Numeric bonuses smaller than that are actually insulting and need to be removed from the feats altogether. 3.5 Skill Focus was a nice start, but that's all it was – a start. Furthermore, the fundamental structure of feats has been a disaster. The system of prerequisites often ensures that characters won't get an ability before it would be level appropriate for them to do so, but actually does nothing to ensure that such characters are in fact getting level appropriate abilities. Indeed, if a 12th level character decides that they want to pursue a career in shooting people in the face, they have to start all over gaining an ability that is supposed to be level appropriate for a 1st level character. Meanwhile, when a wizard of 12th level decides to pursue some new direction in spellcasting – he learns a new 6th level spell right off – and gets an ability that's level appropriate for a 12th level character.
aotrscommander 02-19-07, 06:05 PM	Slapping on more feats will not fix the fighter because there is a fundamental problem with feats in general... Maybe not, but it makes the Fighter a bit better than it was. At least there's no empty levels and you get some slight benefits more than you had. (As I keep saying, this is not intended as a complete fix - nor do I want to bring Fighters exactly into line with spellcasters/ToB; after all, if I did, I'd have to start considering 'fixing' Magical Beasts and animals as well so they don't become far too easy to defeat!) And I have no more intention of re-writing the entire set of feats than I do the entire set of spells for a more psionic-like system (i.e spell points). I only buy the splatbooks for feats, spells and other mechanics, I'm damned if I'm not going to use them! I'm changing enough bits round the edges that I don't want to make any hugely fundemental changes to this system. That can wait until - and if - I decide to move to 4th edition when it eventually emerges in however many year's time.
Leress 02-19-07, 07:24 PM	Maybe not, but it makes the Fighter a bit better than it was. At least there's no empty levels and you get some slight benefits more than you had. Filling empty levels for the sake of filling is just as bad (my word, that article is like ebola just infecting everybody with problems) (As I keep saying, this is not intended as a complete fix - nor do I want to bring Fighters exactly into line with spellcasters/ToB; after all, if I did, I'd have to start considering 'fixing' Magical Beasts and animals as well so they don't become far too easy to defeat!) Then why make a title that says fighter fix??? And I have no more intention of re-writing the entire set of feats than I do the entire set of spells for a more psionic-like system (i.e spell points). I only buy the splatbooks for feats, spells and other mechanics, I'm damned if I'm not going to use them! I'm changing enough bits round the edges that I don't want to make any hugely fundemental changes to this system. That can wait until - and if - I decide to move to 4th edition when it eventually emerges in however many year's time. You can always make the feat that are in a tree became one feat that scales as you level up. I think I a have an article I want you to read... Races of War. http://bb.bbboy.net/thegamingden-viewthread?forum=1&thread=723
aotrscommander 02-20-07, 09:12 AM	Added Open-minded to the list of enchanced feats... Then why make a title that says fighter fix??? It does say 'Highly Dubious' Fighter Fix... I think I a have an article I want you to read... Races of War. http://bb.bbboy.net/thegamingden-viewthread?forum=1&thread=723 Interesting to read, though not something I'm inclinded to implement myself.
mkill 02-20-07, 10:56 AM	Why fix the Warrior? Nobody ever plays a Warrior, and that's by design, and obviously has something to do with the term "NPC class". The warrior serves one purpose: Easily created cannon fodder for the DM. The less he has to think about Warriors, the better. Giving them bonus feats forces the DM to make more decisions when creating warriors. That's bad. Warriors don't need a fix because *they are supposed to suck compared to PCs*. They are supposed to be the reason why PCs can do things "normal people" can't do. If the DM wants tougher warriors, he can just patch them with extra levels or equipment. No need to change rules. Really, I think the steady rush of fighter fixed made a few people overzealous.
Seerow 02-20-07, 11:04 AM	You want a tougher warrior, make them the core Fighter class.
aotrscommander 02-20-07, 12:59 PM	You want a tougher warrior, make them the core Fighter class. I very nearly did replace Warrior with the unmodified Fighter. Why fix the Warrior? Nobody ever plays a Warrior, and that's by design, and obviously has something to do with the term "NPC class". Okay, long answer... I find it hard to belive you can 'fix' the Fighter without 'fixing' the Warrior. Warriors, even by my altered definition, are pure combatants, albeit not very well trained one. For crying out loud, they don't even get Craft and Profession as class skills. Heck, most of the MM use Alertness as their one and only feat! They are completely useless as combatants, since as stands, their options are worse than the Fighter's. I can't even see - as stands - how you could even get a 20th level Warrior. Commoner, yes, but they are 'civilian' and get their XP fro doing 'civilian' things. Warriors, as stand, are more-or-less incapable of doing anything at all, other than providing any other class (with the possible exception of Commoner or Expert) with something to hack into bloody chunks. I quote the Warriors description from the DMG"...a straightforward and unsubtle opponent in a fight, but a respectable one." No. They are nothing more than cannon fodder for PCs, certainly now against the wealth of options available. Beyond, what level 4 or so, Warriors stand absolutely no chance whatsoever against a PC character class. A Warrior's options are limited to 'hit it again' and often they are not even as good against animal opponents (which often have options like trip, grapple, trample), let alone an actual serious threat. Simply put, Warriors are not a threat. They are in fact so bad, that I virtually always have used Fighters instead. Faceless, mindless cannon fodder for the PCs to hack down is a) unrealistic and b) no fun. The warrior serves one purpose: Easily created cannon fodder for the DM. The less he has to think about Warriors, the better. Giving them bonus feats forces the DM to make more decisions when creating warriors. That's bad. I disagree. Since I moved from 2nd to 3.x, I have altogether ceased using 2nd Ed style cannon fodder (and not only in D&D, either). I don't find it interesting in any way. I have found this fact underlined while playing Warhammer FRP recently, where combat is nothing more than "I swing, I miss. I fireball, that umpteen creatures all die," and the only point of entertainment is the humorous effects of the critical hits. And even that wears after the 27th time the PCs get a 15 or 16 on the critical result. (If you wonder why I bother running it at all, it's simply that I have oodles of modules to run and Warhammer serves as a convinient 'fill-in' quest between more serious games.) Now, if I make a combat character, I expect them to be able to do something. If I want cannon-fodder, I make them lower level, but I still expect them to be able to present a credible threat. Plus D&D lends itself to better tactical combat. But that is reliant of Feats, which Warrior get paf-all of. Hence, whle 'fixing' the Fighter (for whatever definiyion of 'fix' you want to call it), it seemed logical to make Warrior slightly bette too. Adding 2-3 feats to a Warrior and allowing them a couple of additional options is hardly time consuming. To Power Attack or not. Use Reckless Offense or Combat Expertise or not. The option to Bull Rush without being killed before you start by the AoO. And so on. It was either that or simply and completely remove Warriors altogether as being utterly irrelevant and just have Fighters. I may yet still do that. Yes, it is a bit of power creep, but the simple fact remains, the more classes get put in, the more the power creeps does occur becuase a) there are likely to be more caster-power-level characters, since there now more choice of caster-power-level classes and b) there are vastly more options in a party nowadays. If the Fighter needs to be brought to to par with the other classes in terms of being able to do 'stuff', then the Warrior certainly needs to be brought up a little too so as not to be rendered utterly impotent. A couple of feats - and let's face it, probably no more than 3 extra feats at level 6, which is about as high as you're likely to get at the very most before saying "Frack it, he's a Fighter" - can make a lot of difference tactically.