| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| Jack_Sparrow04-27-06, 08:20 AM | I was kinda curious about what would Aragorn be using for his Combat style in a D&D setting? I think he is using Two Weapon Style, with a Weapon Focus added later with the shortbow. Any thoughts out there? Also, what level does everyone think he is? |
| runestar04-27-06, 09:23 AM | And old copy of inquest had his adnd stats as a paladin14. They justified that he never did exhibit that many ranger abilities and that a paladin would explain some of his acts better, like how he drives off the undead(turn undead) or cures frodo's nazgul blade wound(slow poison/remove disease). I would probably have him as a ranger/paladin multiclass, maybe ranger2/paladin14? |
| CzarGarrett04-27-06, 09:27 AM | But Aragon is like THE quintessential Ranger. I don't know how/why he would have so many more Paladin levels than Ranger levels. |
| runestar04-27-06, 10:03 AM | But Aragon is like THE quintessential Ranger. That's the problem - he's the quintessential LOTR ranger, not the quintessential dnd ranger. Apart from track and possibly move silently/hide(of which a paladin can actually fill), he displays no other ranger-like traits. Plus, his horse can arguably pass off as a paladin mount. :D |
| Wargamer04-27-06, 10:09 AM | *Bursts into tears, curling up into the foetal position and weeps at the abhorrant blasphemy against creation that is "making LoTR characters in D&D"* |
| Jack_Sparrow04-27-06, 01:32 PM | That's the problem - he's the quintessential LOTR ranger, not the quintessential dnd ranger. Apart from track and possibly move silently/hide(of which a paladin can actually fill), he displays no other ranger-like traits. Plus, his horse can arguably pass off as a paladin mount. :D He could quite possibly be a non-spellcasting Ranger with high rank in the Healing skill. As for the undead thing, watching RotK yesterday, he was told by Elrond that his sword would make him able to command the most powerful army of the dead the Middle Earth has ever known. So, he could actually be "just" a Ranger! :D |
| JulesCARV04-27-06, 01:43 PM | It seems like he rebukes/commands the undead, not turns them. As for setting the Nazgûl on fire, well, anyone with decent combat abilities, knowledge, and a torch can do that. So.... I say that he's a ranger/blackguard. |
| Vestigial_Thumb04-27-06, 01:58 PM | *Bursts into tears, curling up into the foetal position and weeps at the abhorrant blasphemy against creation that is "making LoTR characters in D&D"* Fanboys... Hah! |
| The Soul Collector04-27-06, 02:10 PM | Sorry, he's a ranger through and through. Turn undead/rebuking paints the picture of holding up a holy symbol or speaking with a loud, commanding voice and the undead acting accordingly. Never happened. He jumped in there with sword and torch and did his ranger thing and forced the wraiths to retreat, (yes, I know, undeads falling back and regrouping? Well, I think those wraiths have the Evolved Dead template in LM). He does his best to heal Frodo true, but does so with herbs and "natural medicine" not with spells or some divine connection with a god or ideal. He's got a decent Heal skill. This horse is his pally mount? Na, that mount isn't celestial, nor does it come and go out of nowhere, looks to be more of a ranger animal companion to me. Favored Enemies: Easy, Orc and Undead at least. Only thing is that he doesn't display the two paths given to rangers in D&D but hey, we can't get everything to align just right. In my opinion, he's quite far from being a pally, that's he's much, much closer to ranger, even by D&D standards. If you still feel like he plays too much of a good ranger, then maybe he's exhalted? Gandof is more a pally than Aragorn. |
| (Psi)SeveredHead04-27-06, 03:27 PM | Sorry, he's a ranger through and through. Turn undead/rebuking paints the picture of holding up a holy symbol or speaking with a loud, commanding voice and the undead acting accordingly. Never happened. He jumped in there with sword and torch and did his ranger thing and forced the wraiths to retreat, (yes, I know, undeads falling back and regrouping? Well, I think those wraiths have the Evolved Dead template in LM). I don't have LM, so I don't know what to say. It seemed to me they were just scared of the fire. He does his best to heal Frodo true, but does so with herbs and "natural medicine" not with spells or some divine connection with a god or ideal. He's got a decent Heal skill. DnD rangers have healing spells, however. I don't think you could represent him with any class that casts spells. (His trick of "hearing" the Uruk-hai from far away did look a lot like the commune with nature spell, which is a high-level ranger spell.) Making things more complicated, Aragorn is not the only ranger in LotR, and only he (being the king) had such amazing healing power. (Faramir certainly didn't!) This horse is his pally mount? Na, that mount isn't celestial, nor does it come and go out of nowhere, looks to be more of a ranger animal companion to me. Ranger companion or maybe Wild Cohort. Favored Enemies: Easy, Orc and Undead at least. Only thing is that he doesn't display the two paths given to rangers in D&D but hey, we can't get everything to align just right. A problem with the 3.5 ranger class, not being able to cover a lot of ranger archetypes, even if you ignore the spellcaster problem. According to The Fellowship of the Ring, he did dual-wield once (on Weathertop) with flaming brands (touch attacks?), but lots of rangers in the book don't have such abilities. He could have just spent the feat, or maybe he didn't need it seeing how he was fighting opponents who were afraid of the fire and he probably only needed to make touch attacks. IMO, the best way to design Aragorn is with D20 Modern although you might need to quibble over its healing rules. (I figure Strong/Fast/Charismatic/Dedicated, not necessarily in that order. I drew him up as a 16th-level character. Seeing how the uruk-hai had such a hard time killing him, and his amazing performance at Pellenor Field, I don't think that's an unreasonable level.) |
| MJuggernaut04-27-06, 03:53 PM | I disagree about him beening a ranger. I would say he's more of a fighter. All the things he does can be taken as feats, ex. Track. So i say in LoTR he's a ranger, but in Dnd he's a fighter. |
| Wolfman198704-27-06, 04:37 PM | I realize that Aragorn's bow is far smaller than the typical english longbow, but the shortbows used by the orcs in Fellowship of the Ring were exceptionally smaller than that wielded by Aragorn. I would have to say Aragorn is in fact wielding a longbow. |
| supernerd891604-27-06, 05:14 PM | I would say a ranger/fighter with ranged style and who switches between the bow and a longsword. |
| Archimedes31404-27-06, 06:25 PM | I'd say ranger (bow path) 4/paladin 2. Why ranger? Tracking, hide/move silently/spot/listen, animal companion, and endurance. Why paladin? "The hands of a king are the hands of a healer," thing always smacked me as similar to lay on hands and Aragorn did have a strong moral compass. Why so low? I just don't view LotR as a "high level world", it's just a preference thing. |
| Esponer04-27-06, 06:56 PM | One suggestion: Gestalt. Fighter 4 / Ranger 7 / Holy Liberator 3. Scout 14. There is one point to highlight about this suggestion – D&D is more high magic than Middle-Earth. You'll notice that this build has divine spells from two sources. I'm not too bothered about having granted this. If Aragorn was in D&D, he probably would have divine spells. If ranger and holy liberator were designed for Middle-Earth, they probably would not have divine spells. Ergo, I'm not concerned. |
| nabuchadnysar04-27-06, 07:19 PM | Aragorn is a ranger. Running for days, that's Endurance.Tracking haflings, I meen hobbits, a-cross a battlefeel, is a exploit. He has to be epic, the DC for tracking that hobbit trail has to be 60 or 70. The first to have the courage to claim back the throne of Gondor make him epic. He deals with Elron, Gandalf and Galadriel with such ease, that he's epic. Like they are. He charmed the daugther of Elron, he's epic. Aragorn is a Ranger level 30 or 40. |
| Oliver D'Argent04-27-06, 07:41 PM | I tend to agree with you, nabuchadnysar. One thing that many people do not realize is that Aragorn is in his early 80's when the story opens. |
| Verelor04-27-06, 07:43 PM | You're all wrong (especially nabuch, 30-40? Are you nutty!?). He is an Ultimate Ranger (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=169174) with a couple of paladin levels towards the end. Yes, it all fits perfectly now, doesn't it? :P |
| Vestigial_Thumb04-27-06, 07:48 PM | You're all wrong (especially nabuch, 30-40? Are you nutty!?). He is an Ultimate Ranger (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=169174) with a couple of paladin levels towards the end. Yes, it all fits perfectly now, doesn't it? :P I tell you. Szatany just can't go wrong (It almost went to hell with the Ultimate Psion, but it's still a good class). |
| Esponer04-27-06, 08:01 PM | Aragorn is a ranger. Running for days, that's Endurance.Tracking haflings, I meen hobbits, a-cross a battlefeel, is a exploit. He has to be epic, the DC for tracking that hobbit trail has to be 60 or 70. The first to have the courage to claim back the throne of Gondor make him epic. He deals with Elron, Gandalf and Galadriel with such ease, that he's epic. Like they are. He charmed the daugther of Elron, he's epic. Aragorn is a Ranger level 30 or 40. Hobbits are mechanically not that dissimilar from halflings – in fact, they share some suspiciously ismilar roots. The DC for tracking untrained hobbits is not 60 or 70, it's quite reasonable indeed. Furthermore, it was a very important scene and he was probably using action points and rolling high. Endurance is a feat, and doesn't require you be a ranger. Also, there's no link between being courageous and having more than 20 character levels. While Elrond, Gandalf and Galadriel may be epic characters, you do not need to be an epic character to be confident talking to friendly epic characters. And ability scores don't change all that much with levels, ergo Charisma doesn't change too much, so charming Arwen shouldn't take that many levels, if any. Though I suspect you were kidding. :) It's very difficult to judge levels, though. If you were to perform some massive study, somehow having a ridiculous amount of information about Middle-Earth and the average D&D campaign, and used averages, standard deviations, etc. you'd probably find that Gandalf is certainly epic, Galadriel is low epic, and Elrond is borderline. Aragorn would be level 14-17, etc. However, Gandalf does not have access to epic spellcasting. Nor does Galadriel, nor does Elrond. It's a totally different world, so such a comparison is essentially flawed from the outset. There are two ways to do it – base it off averages, standard deviations, how powerful someone is in their world and translate it into another world; or look at each individual ability in turn, and try to assign a level to them that way. The latter method doesn't get very many characters above level 10, or even that many above level 5, when converting Middle-Earth characters to D&D. |
| nabuchadnysar04-27-06, 08:53 PM | I was kidding about Arwin, and I do aggre that epic character can interact with non-epic ones. But they act as if he underestemate himself. As for tracking hobbit, in ordinary condition it's not that difficult. But it was in a battle ground, thats alot of foot step, horse mouving the ground, etc, and he discribs every mouvement they made. 40 is alot, but 25 is a minimum. Sauron is a sorcerer 40, Gandalf a wizard 30 (when white, 25 when grey), Sarumane a wizard 28, Galadriel a enchantress 28, Elrond a cleric 24. After all they lived many millenias. Espacially Galadriel who was born in the first age. But all and all, it's diffirent mechanics for different worlds. Personnaly I would but Galadriel at level 60, but she could rivals gods (but she is the sisters of Feanor if I'm not mistaking). |
| Kyuketsukiouji04-27-06, 09:08 PM | Long-life is not a guarantee you'll get epic, otherwise, every 200 year-old elf would be Epic. |
| aramil9904-27-06, 09:27 PM | But all and all, it's diffirent mechanics for different worlds. Personnaly I would but Galadriel at level 60, but she could rivals gods (but she is the sisters of Feanor if I'm not mistaking). No, she is the daughter of Finarfin, youngest of his five children (all her 4 brothers were slain in the war against Morgoth in the First Age). Finarfin is the brother of Feanor, so Galadriel was Feanor's niece. All of Feanor's children were also slain in the First Age, and both of Fingolfin's children were also also slain in the First Age. Galadriel was the only one of Finwe's grandchildren to surive the First Age (and of course Finwe's son Finarfin also survived, since he repented of Feanor's rebellion and never left Valinor, even though his five children did. Galadriel eventually returns to Valinor and presumably a reunion with her father some 6500 or 7000 years later, at the end of the Third Age.) So Galadriel was easily the highest-ranking Noldor in Middle Earth throughout the Second and Third Age, and one of the few Valinor-born Noldor. (Appears that Glorfindel, who drives the Nazgul into the River Bruinen in terror, was likely an Eldar from Valinor also.) Elrond was a much younger than Galadriel and many generations farther removed from the first High Kings of the Elves (though he was also a descendent in some degree of Finwe, and also Ingwe and Elwe --- he could trace his ancestry to all three of the original High Kings). |
| Sythorn04-27-06, 09:36 PM | Aragorn is very obviously a munchkin, he's a fighter who cherry picked one level of ranger for favored enemy and the Track feat and two levels of paladin for smite evil and divine grace. That's how he made his will save after picking up the seeing stone in Return of the King, I think he needs to tone it down because he's overshadowing the rest of the party. Hopefully the DM will have a talk with him soon. |
| supernerd891604-27-06, 09:39 PM | Aragorn is very obviously a munchkin, he's a fighter who cherry picked one level of ranger for favored enemy and the Track feat and two levels of paladin for smite evil and divine grace. That's how he made his will save after picking up the seeing stone in Return of the King, I think he needs to tone it down because he's overshadowing the rest of the party. Hopefully the DM will have a talk with him soon. I wouldn't play with him, I can tell you that much. He commands undead! Thats evil! |
| Esponer04-27-06, 09:43 PM | Aragorn is very obviously a munchkin, he's a fighter who cherry picked one level of ranger for favored enemy and the Track feat and two levels of paladin for smite evil and divine grace. That's how he made his will save after picking up the seeing stone in Return of the King, I think he needs to tone it down because he's overshadowing the rest of the party. Hopefully the DM will have a talk with him soon. Nah, he just started out with ridiculously lucky ability score rolls, is playing Gestalt when nobody else is, and is half a dozen levels above most of the others. But yeah: the DM needs a chat with him. Actually, better yet, he needs to start awarding the hobbits more XP for roleplaying. I mean, the love scenes between them are great and should get at least 200 XP... |
| (Psi)SeveredHead04-27-06, 10:11 PM | I disagree about him beening a ranger. I would say he's more of a fighter. All the things he does can be taken as feats, ex. Track. So i say in LoTR he's a ranger, but in Dnd he's a fighter. I disagree. Fighters don't have Hide or Survival as class skills, and Aragorn used both. (He used Hide against Frodo twice.) PS hobbit is just halfling for, well, halfling. They're the same thing. |
| BlaineTog04-27-06, 10:22 PM | I know you don't want to hear this, but Aragon has 20 levels in Plot Device. |
| Wonton200604-27-06, 10:52 PM | Gandof is more a pally than Aragorn. Assuming Gandof meant Gandalf, I'm going to say that he's a Wizard/Fighter/Bard. He uses a sword and a quarterstaff (er... quarterstaff=double weapon...). He also has 16 Bard levels. How do I know? He used Sympathetic Vibration on that little bridge with the balor. He's also a cleric (turned those wraiths!) |
| Esponer04-27-06, 11:34 PM | Assuming Gandof meant Gandalf, I'm going to say that he's a Wizard/Fighter/Bard. He uses a sword and a quarterstaff (er... quarterstaff=double weapon...). He also has 16 Bard levels. How do I know? He used Sympathetic Vibration on that little bridge with the balor. He's also a cleric (turned those wraiths!) He could just be so ridiculously high level that he can use a sword and staff effectively enough to defend himself against most low level opponents (having taken feats to gain proficiencies as necessary), which may be more likely than Gandalf taking fighter levels. And obviously, the bard/cleric/wizard thing is a little bit silly. :) Is Gandalf a wizard or a sorcerer? |
| Lord Schpungus04-28-06, 12:08 AM | Gandalf is a Druid who has given up wild shape for turn undead and better healing. There are no D&D wizards or sorcerers in Middle Earth. Edit: I take it back. Saruman is definitely an enchanter. I'm sticking with Gandalf as a Druid, though. No attack spells, only healing, SNA, and nature-buffing. |
| JulesCARV04-28-06, 12:13 AM | Gandalf derives his power from his creature type, not his classes. He's an outsider, probably (Maia). |
| runestar04-28-06, 01:09 AM | Gandalf: solar wiz5. :D Considering the highest lv spell he casts is lightning bolt... :P How do I know? He used Sympathetic Vibration on that little bridge with the balor. He's also a cleric (turned those wraiths!) Or maybe the bridge structure was already so weak that the slightest touch from his staff was enough to make it collapse. :cool: Plus, I doubt any of the characters are really as high lv as some of them suggested, probably mid tens or very low twenties. They are strong, but the enemies they face clearly are enough to slow them down. Else, they would just be barrelling right through them. Aragorn: ranger6/blackguard10 he is then. ;) |
| Franco Un-American04-28-06, 01:57 AM | Gandalf is likely a fighter/paladin, level 20-23. His magical abilities can be explained more through heritage than any sort of training. I might even shrink him to low epic, and give him DvR 1-2. Aragorn is probably a ranger/paladin, with about 8 levels in each. By the Battle of Helm's Deep, he's all but left behind his ranger roots, and began taking up the mantle of king. Ehh, I'll just use whatever Feanaro comes up with, whenever he gets done... |
| Jack_Sparrow04-28-06, 06:54 AM | It seems like he rebukes/commands the undead, not turns them. As for setting the Nazgûl on fire, well, anyone with decent combat abilities, knowledge, and a torch can do that. So.... I say that he's a ranger/blackguard. Aragorn is in no way evil to warrant being a blackguard. Sorry. |
| Jack_Sparrow04-28-06, 06:58 AM | *Bursts into tears, curling up into the foetal position and weeps at the abhorrant blasphemy against creation that is "making LoTR characters in D&D"* I wasn't alluding to making a LotR character into a D&D character. Although D&D is mostly based upon LotR according to GG himself. I was just asking what people thought about Aragorn's Combat Style in a D&D based setting. |
| R9904-28-06, 07:24 AM | If Aragorn is epic how come the troll took him on and almost killed him? Epic Aragorn could probably assault mordor single handedly if we're talking about lv 30+. I wouldn't say he uses a longsword, more like a bastard sword, so he's more like fighter than anything else for all the combat feats. |
| (Psi)SeveredHead04-28-06, 09:30 AM | Aragorn isn't epic, he's just high level. If he tries to take on Mordor by himself, a very large number of Uruk-hai, or a few higher level Uruk-hai could kill him. I don't know if he uses a bastard sword, but so what? A ranger can spend a feat on that - you do get one feat per three levels, you know. I would make Gandalf a fairly high level Druid or Sorcerer. Being a Maia (I would treat as an aasimar) doesn't give him much power, actually, seeing how the Maia who "cloaked themselves in man-flesh" lost most of their power before even reaching Middle Earth. He uses flame seeds in the Hobbit, which is higher than a 3rd-level spell last time I checked. (He has to be at least 11th-level to pull that off.) A high level druid also has decent BAB and (thanks to the 3.5 rule change) he can use a longsword or bastard sword without suddenly losing his abilities. Of course, he never wildshapes... PS a troll can take class levels. That's one way to get a troll to challenge Aragorn. |
| Sythorn04-28-06, 10:31 AM | When dealing with a world that follows different rules than core D&D, it's usually best to turn to variants. I'd say that the variant druid listed in Unearthed Arcana fits Gandalf pretty well. He loses wild shape and armor and shield proficiencies, but gains the monk's unarmored AC bonus, fast movement and the ranger's favored enemy. The variant also gains the Track feat, which is a little out of place, but all in all I'd say the class is more appropriate for Gandalf than the core one. I also agree with the above poster that his race is aasimar, maybe he should have a few levels in favored soul as well....? On a more serious note on Aragorn than my previous post, I can easily see him having a few levels in a martial paladin variant. And by martial variant, I mean a REAL one that subtracts spells and spell-like abilities in exchange for combat abilities instead of more spell-like abilities that defeat the entire purpose of having a martial variant. Yes, Complete Warrior variant I'm looking at YOU [/end rant]. As far as the ranger's combat style goes, I've never read the books but in the movie adaptation of Fellowship of the Ring Aragorn fired a bow on a few occasions, so I'd say archery is definitely in order. This is one of the thing's I love about third edition, the free multiclassing allows for builds that better represent the character in question than a single, strict class ever could. I'd put Aragorn at Ranger 12/Fighter 2/Paladin 2 with the archery combat style and fighter bonus feats such as Power Attack and Cleave that he can use with his bastard sword. Also, he would probably have levels in a setting specific prestige class for Middle Earth's rangers, whose name eludes me at the moment. This would put him close to, but not quite, an epic character, which in my opinion is appropriate. |
| White_Adder04-28-06, 02:26 PM | This is fun post. As someone else pointed out most of D&D is based on LoTR to begin with. Remember the first books don’t even refer to Halflings – they’re called Hobbits! (I think there was law suit to change the name). I think the AD&D Ranger class was based on Aragorn as well, though the magic-user abilities don't make complete sense. With the current rules I would agree with those that split him part Ranger/Fighter. |
| Ranger REG04-28-06, 09:02 PM | I concur. He's a fighter who later became a ranger. |
| Osedox04-29-06, 12:55 AM | I concur. He's a fighter who later became a ranger.Backwards :P I think Aragorn is a Ranger1/Fighter, Gimily a Fighter/Dwarven Defender or Barbarian(lawful varient, come to think of it he never acts very lawful so perhaps not), Leg-o-lass a loser Ranger (Peter Jackson be damned for making Legolas so good!), Gandalf an outsider with a few spell like abilities (no not a wizard, perhaps he has a few artificer levels for the fireworks), Annatar Devil/Demon Artificer/Warlock (with a Shapechange ability at will), Boromir a Fighter, Feanor an Epic level Artificer, Sam Paladin/Rogue, Frodo Commoner/Aristocrat, Pippin Fighter, Merry Fighter/Halfling Outrider (on a pony), and finaly Sauroman some sort of fallen angel with Blackguard thrown in there. Did I miss anyone? |
| runestar04-29-06, 03:08 AM | Aragorn is in no way evil to warrant being a blackguard. Sorry. Some people just can't recognise a joke for one... ;) |
| Ryusage04-29-06, 08:59 AM | I was kinda curious about what would Aragorn be using for his Combat style in a D&D setting? I think he is using Two Weapon Style How often in LotR did he use two weapons at once? |
| Jack_Sparrow04-29-06, 09:38 AM | How often in LotR did he use two weapons at once? He did so at the Battle of Amon Hen against the RingWraiths, again in Moria, again in the battle were Boromir dies by the hands of the Uruks, again while fighting the WargRiders and lastly at the Battle of Helms Deep. |
| Maraxus04-29-06, 11:08 AM | Okay, one can talk about what Aragon would be in D&D, but one can not talk about what gandalf would be. LotR Magic is just much to diffrent from D&D Magic. No spells per day. No spells known list. No spellbook or spell component pouch No flashy shows, just some subtle tricks, using the given enviroment. About Aragon: Hey, don't you think Dunedain deserve an own Race-description? I mean, if every kind of Elf get's own attributes, I think the Dunedain should not be average human, too. I think an a little more powerful LA +1 or +2 would fit good, boosting the attributes a bit and maybe the saves, while keeping the feat and bonus skill points. As many heros, Aragon shows a lot of skills: Maxed out Survival (as discusted), Diplomacy and Heal. Also some points in Hide/Move silently, Spot/Listen, Sense Motive, diverse Knowledge and Jump. In the movie, he has no single rank in escape artist, however. ;) How does he do that with such a low int. I mean: "Theoden, Helm's Clam is a trap, don't go there." - Damn, if it wasn't for the great walls of Helm's Clam, the Orcs had killed every human hours before Gandalf comes to save the day. (And there would have been more Orcs left. 10000 Orcs with 10ft pikes kill 2000 Horseman easily, even if the later have a mage.) That's why I say: He has got to be Ranger. 6+Int (probably around 13 for combat expertise) +1 human(Dunedain) should be enough. |
| Cantankerous04-29-06, 11:30 AM | Aragorn from the books (forget the movies) would work well as follows. Pt. Bld: 28 (he does need to be a bit more than even the standard hero, but not much more really) Race: Dunedain (Half Elf, but repalce Low Light Vision with the human extra feat at first level; in LotR this is what the Dunedain really are) Class: Ranger*20+/Horizon Walker*5 (he was supposed to have been the most widely travelled man of his time, and spent more than sixty years as a warrior in many lands and under many guises) Other than that, take away the spells, he didn't have them, and add in an addional Feat for each new level of Spell he would have received and increase his hit die type to 1d10 and finally, let him add any two Knowledge skills to his list as class skills. Isshia As a side note: Gandalf was older than the very world itself and was one of the beings who aided in it's design and creation. He works best, by far, as an Angel-Planetar, later Solar, but one who was VERY reluctant to use his divine power. |
| Sythorn04-29-06, 03:35 PM | Class: Ranger*20+/Horizon Walker*5 (he was supposed to have been the most widely travelled man of his time, and spent more than sixty years as a warrior in many lands and under many guises). I have to respectively disagree with this statement, a long life is not equal to a high level. Elminster is over 1100 years old and a chosen of his deity, yet he is only level 35. I am by no means an authority on the books, especially considering I've never actually read them. But everything I've read about the Lord of the Rings tells me the movies feature many more combat sequences than the books. If this is indeed the case, then I find it hard to believe the book version of Aragorn could be level 25 when the movie version just barely defeated a cave troll and some orcs with eight other companions, had to run from a balrog (which from my understanding is exactly the same as a balor, D&D products simply couldn't use the term anymore than they could the word "hobbit"), and fought an even battle against a single Uruk-hai. This would require every creature in Middle-Earth to be an epic or near epic version of it's D&D counterpart, something I can't see considering that the hobbits were fighting toe-to-toe with some of the monsters in the movie version. The D&D stats for Aragorn should be compared to the D&D stats for the creatures he fought against in the Lord of the Rings, that's my opinion anyway. |
| Kursk04-29-06, 05:17 PM | It's very simple. He isn't a D&D Ranger. Period. D&D didn't exist when the books were written. He isn't ANY D&D class. You would have to create a new class. EOT |
| risner04-29-06, 09:43 PM | Is Gandalf a wizard or a sorcerer? Neither, Gandalf is a Druid. |
| Priest_of_Shaundakul04-29-06, 09:49 PM | Aragorn is a Ranger, Gandalf is a Wizard. Look in Champions of Valor End of story. |
| Esponer04-29-06, 10:31 PM | Neither, Gandalf is a Druid. Hmm: not sure I understand why. Explanation? Personally, I think I'd rather go with sorcerer. It's obviously very debatable, and there's no completely right answer (of course) as none of the classes are built for Gandalf, nor is Gandalf built for any of the classes. I did plan to build a class that would have been perfect for him (warlock with different flavour, and a staff), but never got around to that. |
| Cantankerous04-30-06, 03:23 AM | I have to respectively disagree with this statement, a long life is not equal to a high level. Elminster is over 1100 years old and a chosen of his deity, yet he is only level 35. I am by no means an authority on the books, especially considering I've never actually read them. But everything I've read about the Lord of the Rings tells me the movies feature many more combat sequences than the books. If this is indeed the case, then I find it hard to believe the book version of Aragorn could be level 25 when the movie version just barely defeated a cave troll and some orcs with eight other companions, had to run from a balrog (which from my understanding is exactly the same as a balor, D&D products simply couldn't use the term anymore than they could the word "hobbit"), and fought an even battle against a single Uruk-hai. This would require every creature in Middle-Earth to be an epic or near epic version of it's D&D counterpart, something I can't see considering that the hobbits were fighting toe-to-toe with some of the monsters in the movie version. The D&D stats for Aragorn should be compared to the D&D stats for the creatures he fought against in the Lord of the Rings, that's my opinion anyway. Like I said, throw the movies out. Ohh, and the troll of the books (and the movie for that matter) is a considerably different thing than the D&D version. Too, the Balrog makes the D&D Balor (a poor copy of the Balrog) look like a pixie with an attitude. Dragons (and in Tolkiens mythology these were beasts that laid wastes to entire armies) "feared their coming". Gandalf very seldom revealed it, but he was massively powerful. He followed the will of the Valar though and served only to guide and advise people. In the books Aragorn was not merely widely travelled. He'd been ACTIVELY adventuring for more than sixty years. VERY ACTIVELY. He'd been a Marshall of Rohan before Theoden became King. And an Admiral in the service of Gondor who had burned the very fleets of Umbar in their own harbor, all more than thirty years before the before the start of the events covered in the Fellowship of the Ring. He'd hunted trolls on the Troll Moors, often alone. He'd been hunting orcs and warring against them with the sons of Elrond since he was in his late teens. He had explored lands that others had never even heard of in the distant south and east. Aragorn was perhaps the greatest warior, according to the books, that the Dunedain had produced in more than a millenia. If all added together this doesn't add up to epic ability, nothing in else fanatsy fiction does. Isshia |
| Sythorn04-30-06, 08:25 AM | In the books Aragorn was not merely widely travelled. He'd been ACTIVELY adventuring for more than sixty years. VERY ACTIVELY. He'd been a Marshall of Rohan before Theoden became King. And an Admiral in the service of Gondor who had burned the very fleets of Umbar in their own harbor, all more than thirty years before the before the start of the events covered in the Fellowship of the Ring. He'd hunted trolls on the Troll Moors, often alone. He'd been hunting orcs and warring against them with the sons of Elrond since he was in his late teens. He had explored lands that others had never even heard of in the distant south and east. Aragorn was perhaps the greatest warior, according to the books, that the Dunedain had produced in more than a millenia. If all added together this doesn't add up to epic ability, nothing in else fanatsy fiction does. Well now, all of that would make a big difference, I stand corrected. Hopefully I'll get around to reading the books in the near future, I'm addicted to A Song of Ice and Fire right now though. |
| Maraxus05-03-06, 07:40 AM | (...) Too, the Balrog makes the D&D Balor (a poor copy of the Balrog) look like a pixie with an attitude. Okay, he is even more fierce and a lot more black smoking, but had the Balrog had Blasphemie at will, the little Hobbits would have had a bad day. Not to forget that quickend telekinesis, firestorm and implosion. Oh, and fly speed 90, so no trick with a weak bridge. My vote goes for the Balor anytime. Dragons (and in Tolkiens mythology these were beasts that laid wastes to entire armies) "feared their coming". Gandalf very seldom revealed it, but he was massively powerful. He followed the will of the Valar though and served only to guide and advise people.If you put an ancient red wyrm into a low magic/rare magic setting, it will definitly lay waste to entire armies. But about the Balor, they probably had other Balors in mind, then the slow, dumb and mudane thing in Khazad-dûm. As for Gandalf: No, that does not work, if he really was that mighty, he would have had no reason to not levitate upt to the rest of the group, when the Balrog fall. Or somehow let them know: Wait, I'm coming. I mean, he risked the fade of middle earth letting that two Hobbits bring the Ring to Mordor on their own. And about the "only guide and advisor": In that case, the Valar were probably very displeased about his involvements especially in the fight at Minas Tirith. (I can't remember the book that much about, what he actually did, especially in the fight at Helm's Clam, but it probably was not blinding all Orcs left.) I say with my opinion: Gandalf's Power was low. Maybe it was because of the coming of the 4th age (?), and the fading of Elbes and magic as a whole, but anyway, his magic was limited to some tricks to subtilly alter reality - as opposed to rib it apart and reconstruct it, the way a D&D wizard, sorcerer or druid can. |
| babysamurai05-03-06, 08:27 AM | Now, we all know LotR does not translate at all well into D&D. I wouldn't put any of the Fellowship past level 10 (save Gandalf-high HD Outsider). As for ol' Aragorn - at most I would put him at: Aristocrat 1/Expert 3/Fighter 6. The Fellowship, when compared to your average mid-level D&D party, are actually quite weak. ...and I'm speaking of the Book, not the film, where they decided Legolas should be a Quasi-Deity. ...and Gimli a rolling buffoon. |
| (Psi)SeveredHead05-03-06, 11:25 AM | He did so at the Battle of Amon Hen against the RingWraiths, again in Moria, again in the battle were Boromir dies by the hands of the Uruks, again while fighting the WargRiders and lastly at the Battle of Helms Deep. No, he only used it against the Ringwraiths. Do you have quotes, or are you just following the movie? The Fellowship, when compared to your average mid-level D&D party, are actually quite weak. In the battle of Pellenor Field, Aragorn fought so well he wasn't even scratched. The text specifically points this out. |
| babysamurai05-03-06, 12:06 PM | In the battle of Pellenor Field, Aragorn fought so well he wasn't even scratched. The text specifically points this out. Probably because he was going up against 1st, maybe 2nd level fleebs. If Aragorn was to go one on one against your average 10th level D&D character, of any race or class, he would get his booty ganked. |
| Gladi05-03-06, 12:08 PM | Bright day Ranger/Marshall, plus some "special" feats due to his special lineage. Now what about the rest of Fellowship? |
| Wyre05-03-06, 12:18 PM | Trying to compare LoTR characters to D&D is a prime example of apples to oranges. They are two completely different systems. The old LoTR RPG I have has a different advancement system then D&D. Magic is more rare and not as flashy. Unlike D&D where any bumb on the street could be packing a wand of fireballs. Aragon is a LoTR Ranger through and through, but trying to make him or any other characters from the movies or books into D&D just won't do the characters justice. |
| babysamurai05-03-06, 12:19 PM | Now what about the rest of Fellowship? And this is being generous: Legolas, Aristocrat 1/Expert 2/Fighter 4 Gimli, Fighter 5 Boromir, Aristocrat 1/Fighter 4 Frodo, Aristocrat 1/Fighter 1 Samwise, Expert 1/Fighter 1 Merry, Commoner 1/Fighter 1 Pippin, Commoner 1/Fighter 1 Gandalf, Outsider/Celestial |
| Maraxus05-03-06, 12:48 PM | (Psi)SeveredHead: I think if he speaks of "When the Worg-Riders attack" it must be the movie. And it's a good movie, so stop your holy-bookerism. ;) babysamurai: Definitly not, Aragon has a much higher BAB, massive attributes, (at least) improved combat expertise etc. If he was to fight an Level 10 D&D character - both without magic items, Aragon would win in less then a minute. ;) ... But that's philosophical, we'll never know. :D About the others: Come on, Have you seen, how long Gimli and Aragon had fought Toe-to-toe with a Kraken? And that's a CR 12 monster, fighting it Magic-item-less means almost CR 24. ;) Gimly and Legolas are definitly level 10 each, round about. Legolas probably Ranger and some less levels, since the Tolkin Elbes, unlike the D&D Elves have a little LA. Boromier maybe a bit behind them, Level 8 or something, but I would not give him any level of Aristrocrat - you know, one can be one in-game without having it written on the sheet. As for the Halflings: I agree, that they are 1st level NPCs in the beginning - if they have a level at all. But they get greatly powerleveled, especially Merry and Pippin - at the end they should be level 4 or 5. ;) |
| Gladi05-03-06, 12:49 PM | And this is being generous: Legolas, Aristocrat 1/Expert 2/Fighter 4 Gimli, Fighter 5 Boromir, Aristocrat 1/Fighter 4 Frodo, Aristocrat 1/Fighter 1 Samwise, Expert 1/Fighter 1 Merry, Commoner 1/Fighter 1 Pippin, Commoner 1/Fighter 1 Gandalf, Outsider/Celestial What is Legolas expert at? Drinking wine, partying in forest, tossing around his raven locks? Isn't Gimli son of one of the Company? So he could be aristocrat himself too, and maybe an expert... And Boromir is not only warrior and son of steward but also leader of men- maybe marshall too? |
| Maraxus05-03-06, 01:13 PM | Hehe, Gandalf and Elrond are so old, I bet they are AD&D-Characters, And Galadriel is from D&D 1.0. :D |
| darth_borehd05-03-06, 06:22 PM | You will never get an exact match for the characters and all of their abilities. I think that best you can do is the "closest equivalent" in D&D terms. Tolkien was but one of the fantasy authors whose work formed the basis for Gary Gygax's first D&D rules. The Tolkien ties in 3.5 have been further diluted by the huge amount fantasy fiction that has appeared since Gygax's first rules. So a 3.5 ranger is a little bit Aragorn, a little bit Robin Hood, and little bit every other woodland hero in the past 60 years. It was designed to be an archetype that encompasses all. The system is flexible enough with skills, feats, multiclassing, and prestige classes that you can fill in whatever else seems to be missing to get the best possible approximation. With that in mind, I would picture Aragorn being about a 15th level character. Mostly ranger with maybe 1 or 2 levels of bard and 1 or 2 levels of an aristocrat, noble, or paladin class. There are many ways you can approximate his abilities that would all be equally valid. Legolas would be about the same level, but would be some kind of character who focused on his bow. One possible way would be a 15th level character with levels in fighter, elf paragon (to get the "elf sight" ability), and some levels in an archer prestige class (order of the bow initiate, darkwood stalker, etc). Again this is only one out of several possibilities. Gimli could be a barbarian or fighter or mixture of both with the Dwarven Defender prestige class. He could also just be a straight fighter or lots of other combinations. Like the above, there are lots of different ways that would be equally valid. Gandalf could be a 20th level half-celestial Abjurerer with Conjuration as one his two prohibited spells since he limits his godly powers and seems to concentrate on protection spells and didn't conjure anything. Or he might be something else that would fit just as well. |
| The Soul Collector05-03-06, 06:50 PM | Honestly folks! Can't you guys see Gandolf was a pally/wizard/risen martyr (book of exhalted deeds)? It really fits, especially story wise. When I first read the risen martyr text, I honestly thought they drafted it with LOTR in mind. :) Of all of the D&D material we have available to us, I would have to say if Gandolf was indeed a wizard, it would have to have been as a specialized Diviner. It follows with both flavor and what we know of Gandolf. That's as close as I can peg it. Thoughts? |
| Raven127205-05-06, 12:04 PM | This is how I'd place the LoTR crew. Obviously, you can't do a direct translation, I'm going for feel and close approximations. Also for sake of simplicity I'm basing this off the movies for the simple reason that I haven't read the books in a few years. Aragorn - Ranger 6 / Paladin 6 Legolas - Ranger 4 / Scout 8 Gimli - Fighter 12 (I could see a mix of barbarian here. the rage almost fits) Boromir - Fighter 6 / Marshal 2 Faramir - Ranger 4 / Marshal 6 Sam - Expert 1 / Fighter 6 Frodo - Expert 1 / Thief 4 (Yes I'm stunting the ring bearer. he didn't fight much because it was too dangerous to let a mundane foe kill him and he did more escaping than anything else.) Merry - Commoner 1 / Paladin 6 Pipin - Commoner 1 / either thief or fighter 6. I can see both and haven't decided Gandalf - a GM character that deos whatever the GM needs him to do =) all in all... I think the closest classes that seem to still fit in the LoTR world are: fighter, thief, druid, marshal, scout, ranger, paladin, barbarian, warlock (with flavor variants), swashbuckler, and favor soul. I think most of the fellowship starts out in the 6 to 8 range.... and most of them will end up in the 12 to maybe 15 range at the end barring a few exceptions. In the beginning they did have a "double" sized party which gave them the ability to take on higher CR creatures. Even after they split up, all but the two mordor hobbits, were still in large parties (armies) by the time combat rolled around again. (based on the movie once again). The first combat that I remember following the first movie was the warg attack and the rohirrim where there as well. Well, actually on second thought... sam and frodo did have a scuffle with a singular golum. anyway my opinion and my two cents... make of it what you will =) |
| CaoSlayer05-05-06, 01:37 PM | gandalf character in D&D it is elmister, just take a look at the elmister character sheet, we have a very old man and powerful wizard who is able to wield and sword as a poweful warrior and loves to smoke... dont talk about they both have divine conections and can handle magical fires. |
| Tony Vargas05-05-06, 02:54 PM | D&D originally 'drew inspiritation' (ie stole outright) from LotR. Most obviously with things like halflings and rangers, but there was a lot of other stuff, too - enough that T$R was sued by the Tolkien estate. To the extent that you can't seem to model Aragorn with the Ranger class there are two things at work. One is that an RPG just can't ever bring across the same feel as a novel - what an RPG character can do is defined by stats and random die rolls, what a character in a novel can do is whatever the writer wants to move the plot along. The other is that TSR had to consciously move away from directly ripping of LotR, and, since then, D&D has continued to drift off in new directions. The earliest versions of halflings were even called hobbits, and were direct and obvious rip-offs (D&D elves & dwarves are also very tolkienish, right down to thier mistrust of eachother). The original Ranger tried very hard to be Aragorn (and didn't have TWFing). Any number of magic items in the 1E DMG are also tolkien-rip-offs. The cursed 'Crystal Hypnosis Ball,' the Staff of the Magi & Staff of Power (respecively, they included powers consistent with thing Gandalf did - such as producing light in Moria, the 'retributive strike' to destroy the bridge and throw himself and the Balrog into another plane; then, with his new Staff of Power, paralyzing Grima Wormtounge). The Arrow of Slaying matches the black arrow used to kill Smaug in the Hobbit. Cloaks of Elvenkind should be pretty obvious, too. The Balrog made an apearance among the early D&D monsters, then had it's serial numbers changed to 'Type VI Demon' (with various personal names, including 'Balor' - an evil Celtic deity, BTW), then, ironically when 'demon' became unfashionable, they all got named 'Balors.' Of course, D&D 'drew inspiriation' from many other sources too. Moorcock (heavily), Jack Vance, Burroughs & REH (and other pulp authors), Ray Harryhausen, cheap plastic toy 'dinosaurs' (I kid you not, you have some forgotten Taiwanese toymaker to thank for the Bullette, Owlbear & Rustmonster, at least), cheesy sci-fi (think the 'black pudding' and 'ochre jelly' don't owe something to The Blob?), and so forth... There was actually vanishingly little in D&D that was actually original. The Gelatinous Cube, for instance. |
| rogerd05-05-06, 03:09 PM | At the beginning of the book: Sauron (Divine Rank 1), Outsider Balrog (Divine Rank 0), Outsider Saruman (Divine Rank 0), Outsider, Wizard Gandalf (Divine Rank 0), Outsider, Sorceror Galadriel, Elf, Aristocrat/Sorceror Elrond, Elf, Aristocrat/Bard Cerdan, Elf, Aristocrat/Expert Aragorn, Half-Elf Aristocrat/Fighter/Ranger/Paladin Gimli (Dwarf Aristocrat/Fighter)/Legolas (Elf Aristocrat/Fighter/Sorceror)/Boromir (Human Aristocrat/Fighter) Faramir (Human Aristocrat/Ranger) Frodo (Halfling Aristocrat) Merry (Halfling Aristocrat)/Pippin (Halfling Aristocrat)/Sam (Halfling Commoner) I assert this is a good RANKING of the characters by power level. Note that almost all the characters in the book are aristocrats, even if that's only one level for them. I would argue that Merry, Pippin and Sam are all level 1 at the beginning. Frodo is level 2 because he's older and has spent a decent amount of time travelling the Shire. At first they level up essentially every time they cross paths with the Nazgul and escape (their goal was just to survive.) I'll put Faramir at level 9, Gimli, Legolas and Boromir at level 10 and Aragorn at level 12 or more. Legolas and Aragorn are a bit more difficult than most to pick classes for. Legolas shows a decent amount of magic, but doesn't feel like an Arcane Archer. Aragorn doesn't quite feel like a D&D ranger since he's not particularly druidic. Galadriel I'll rather arbitrarily put at level 20. Elrond is then level 18 or so and Cerdan is maybe a 17. If you make Galadriel epic, you can bump up Elrond and Cerdan a bit too. The Istari and the Balrog deserve hero-god status. Sauron is a demigod. You could argue his divine rank should be as high as rank 5 - perhaps it would be rank 5 if he recovered his ring? I'm honestly not sure what to do with the Nazgul. Aragorn, Gandalf and Glorfindel were all capable of driving them off at least. They were all kings once, so Aristocrat makes sense again, and then maybe apply some kind of undead template? The Witch-king presumably has some sorceror levels too. Whatever they are, perhaps they should be considered a CR10 (more for the Witch-king). That's the most that you can still get XP for at 1st-3rd level. :D As others have pointed out, the D&D classes don't work especially well for many of these characters. Really that comes down to D&D magic vs. Tolkien's magic being very different. Roger |
| Osedox05-05-06, 08:58 PM | Very well, I first would like to say that I agree with almost everything you have said. I just have a few things to point out. I'll put Faramir at level 9, Gimli, Legolas and Boromir at level 10 and Aragorn at level 12 or more. Legolas and Aragorn are a bit more difficult than most to pick classes for. Legolas shows a decent amount of magic, but doesn't feel like an Arcane Archer. Aragorn doesn't quite feel like a D&D ranger since he's not particularly druidic. -Legolas is very very old and therefore merits quite a bit higher level than Boromir -Aragorn is also 87 I believe and is a veteran of multiple wars/campaigns (and he is definatly not a Half elf, thats Elrond you are thinking of), so I believe that he is probably more like 17-18th level. Galadriel I'll rather arbitrarily put at level 20. Elrond is then level 18 or so and Cerdan is maybe a 17. If you make Galadriel epic, you can bump up Elrond and Cerdan a bit too.You have to keep in mind that Galadriel is in fact the oldest being living in middle earth at the time of the LotR besides Sauron himself. She was present at the theft of the Silmarils and is the only surviving Noldor still in M.E. Cerdan the shipwright is likewise very old, not quite as old as Galadriel, but none the less very old. Elrond is old as well but doesent come into being until the very end of the Silmarillion. His age in relation to theirs is like an infant and a granpa. Now you may have noticed that I have been mentioning age quite a bit, and not that this the rule but I generaly equate age with power, and im sure that Tolkien did. Therefore I would place Galadriel @ 30ish, Cerdan @ 25ish, and Elrond @20ish. The Istari and the Balrog deserve hero-god status Perhaps, although I would instead equate them more with Solor/Balor level outsiders with perhaps some refined abilities.Sauron is a demigod. You could argue his divine rank should be as high as rank 5 - perhaps it would be rank 5 if he recovered his ring?I think that Sauron is the equivelent of a Demon Lord/Devil Prince, although this is just an estimation. At some times his power level seems to fluctuate quite severely, certianly he was at his most powerful during his possession of the ring though. At the beginning of the book: Sauron (Divine Rank 1), Outsider Balrog (Divine Rank 0), Outsider Saruman (Divine Rank 0), Outsider, Wizard Gandalf (Divine Rank 0), Outsider, Sorceror Galadriel, Elf, Aristocrat/Sorceror Elrond, Elf, Aristocrat/Bard Cerdan, Elf, Aristocrat/Expert Aragorn, Half-Elf Aristocrat/Fighter/Ranger/Paladin Gimli (Dwarf Aristocrat/Fighter)/Legolas (Elf Aristocrat/Fighter/Sorceror)/Boromir (Human Aristocrat/Fighter) Faramir (Human Aristocrat/Ranger) Frodo (Halfling Aristocrat) Merry (Halfling Aristocrat)/Pippin (Halfling Aristocrat)/Sam (Halfling Commoner)If I were to rank them in terms of power my list would be >Sauron >Galadriel >Cerdan >Istari (Gandalf the white, Gandalf the grey and Saruman equal, Radagast lowest) >Balrogs >Elrond >Aragorn >Legolas >Gimli >Boromir and Faramir >Sam >Frodo, Merry, and Pippin |
| Gladi05-06-06, 06:04 AM | Bright day okay here is my version at the start Peregrin Took - Aristocrat Meriadoc Brandybuck - Aristocrat Frodo Baggins-Brandybuck - Aristocrat Samwise Gamgee - Commoner Gimli son of Gloin - Fighter Legolas son of Thranduil - Aristocrat/Ranger Aragorn son of Arathorn - Half-elf Ranger/Marshal/Scion of Eärendil Boromir son of Denethor- Fighter/Marshal Gandalf - Good Outsider Now. Elrond is called Half-elf but he choose to be counted amongst Elves- so he is an elf. His brother Elros Half-Elf choose to be counted amongst Men , but all his descendants have longer lives- ie are mechanical half-elves. |
| Sythorn05-06-06, 11:18 PM | I'm honestly not sure what to do with the Nazgul. Aragorn, Gandalf and Glorfindel were all capable of driving them off at least. They were all kings once, so Aristocrat makes sense again, and then maybe apply some kind of undead template? The Witch-king presumably has some sorceror levels too. Whatever they are, perhaps they should be considered a CR10 (more for the Witch-king). That's the most that you can still get XP for at 1st-3rd level. :D I think the Death Knight template from MMII would work. They look like zombies but are far from mindless. |
| aelryinth05-06-06, 11:42 PM | The 1e Ranger is designed right off of Aragorn. Minor Druidic ability, minor magical ability, the explicit ability to use scrying devices....and ranger class bonus against 'giant-Kind', which happened to include just about every kind of humanoid you can think of. Aragorn IS a high level 1E ranger. As a Dunedain, his lifespan is far longer then a normal man's, and he can fight shoulder to shoulder with Elves, considered far, far superior to the best of human warriors. Aragorn's 'holiness' probably comes from the divine right of kings thing. He probably does have some levels in paladin...remember, it's only in this last edition that a paladin's horse is summoned out of the blue. In all other editions, you actually had to go quest for the thing...and it was a vastly superior animal to a normal horse. Faramir probably has the distinction of being one of the models for a 1E paladin. His heart was so pure not even the One Ring could tempt him. Galadriel probably does have access to Epic Magic (she wields one of the 4 Elven Rings), but it's all tied in up in immensely subtle and powerful magic warding her kingdom. She is considered incredibly powerful and untouchable. Maybe one of these days we'll get a movie where they take dwarves seriously. While I can see Peter Jackson showing an Elven Hero capable of doing things no human could, Gimli and Legolas actually kept an even tally of hapless Orcs and Goblins during their battles...Gimli was one bad-ass Dwarf, and unlike the elf, his axe didn't keep running out of arrows. And yes, hobbits are halflings in D@D. The name is the same...hobbit is actually a term from Old English that Tolkein picked up and used, just like Orc and Goblin. ===Aelryinth |
| Zephyr_Blue05-07-06, 01:38 AM | as a quick note, not sure if anyone's mentioned this? the only reason the undead army follow Aragorn is because he has Narsil, a magical blade proving his ancestry the undead had to follow him as the heir of Isuldur to fulfill their oaths |
| aramil9905-07-06, 04:01 AM | Galadriel probably does have access to Epic Magic (she wields one of the 4 Elven Rings), but ... One of the three Elven rings, not four. Elrond has Vilya, the Ring of Air. Galadriel has Nenya, the Ring of Adamant (alternatively, the Ring of Water). And Gandalf has Narya, the Ring of Fire. (Originally it was held by Cirdan the Shipwright at the Gray Havens, but he gave it to Gandalf when Gandalf first arrived in Middle Earth.) |
| (Psi)SeveredHead05-07-06, 01:22 PM | -Aragorn is also 87 I believe and is a veteran of multiple wars/campaigns (and he is definatly not a Half elf, thats Elrond you are thinking of), so I believe that he is probably more like 17-18th level. Half-elf is a "quick and dirty" way of doing the Dunedain race. Tolkien half-elves were basically elves (including Elrond). Tolkien's elves didn't have pointed ears, either. |
| Gladi05-07-06, 05:42 PM | Half-elf is a "quick and dirty" way of doing the Dunedain race. Tolkien half-elves were basically elves (including Elrond). Tolkien's elves didn't have pointed ears, either. Bright day Actually if you want to go by it there were no "half-elves" at all in Arda. The progeny of interracial unions had to choose at the end of first age amongst what race they want to belong. Elwing, Eärendil and Elrond have chosen Firstborn, Elros Successors. There is debate about ears, afaik most people agree that they are suposed to have leaf shaped somewhat pointy ears like some humans (and Tolkien's wife) have. |
| Jack_Sparrow05-07-06, 06:03 PM | You will never get an exact match for the characters and all of their abilities. I think that best you can do is the "closest equivalent" in D&D terms. Tolkien was but one of the fantasy authors whose work formed the basis for Gary Gygax's first D&D rules. The Tolkien ties in 3.5 have been further diluted by the huge amount fantasy fiction that has appeared since Gygax's first rules. So a 3.5 ranger is a little bit Aragorn, a little bit Robin Hood, and little bit every other woodland hero in the past 60 years. It was designed to be an archetype that encompasses all. The system is flexible enough with skills, feats, multiclassing, and prestige classes that you can fill in whatever else seems to be missing to get the best possible approximation. With that in mind, I would picture Aragorn being about a 15th level character. Mostly ranger with maybe 1 or 2 levels of bard and 1 or 2 levels of an aristocrat, noble, or paladin class. There are many ways you can approximate his abilities that would all be equally valid. Legolas would be about the same level, but would be some kind of character who focused on his bow. One possible way would be a 15th level character with levels in fighter, elf paragon (to get the "elf sight" ability), and some levels in an archer prestige class (order of the bow initiate, darkwood stalker, etc). Again this is only one out of several possibilities. Gimli could be a barbarian or fighter or mixture of both with the Dwarven Defender prestige class. He could also just be a straight fighter or lots of other combinations. Like the above, there are lots of different ways that would be equally valid. Gandalf could be a 20th level half-celestial Abjurerer with Conjuration as one his two prohibited spells since he limits his godly powers and seems to concentrate on protection spells and didn't conjure anything. Or he might be something else that would fit just as well. I would agree with you on Legolas being a fighter/elf paragon/darkwood stalker. Afterall, the darkwood stalker is basically taken from The Hobbit as the wood elves of Mirkwood are described. Any thoughts? |
| darth_borehd05-08-06, 06:23 PM | I would agree with you on Legolas being a fighter/elf paragon/darkwood stalker. Afterall, the darkwood stalker is basically taken from The Hobbit as the wood elves of Mirkwood are described. Any thoughts? Darkwood Stalker seems most similar to the novel version. I think the Order of the Bow Initiate is closer to the movie version. He seems to be able to threaten nearby squares with his bow. |
| (Psi)SeveredHead05-08-06, 09:48 PM | Bright day Actually if you want to go by it there were no "half-elves" at all in Arda. The progeny of interracial unions had to choose at the end of first age amongst what race they want to belong. Elwing, Eärendil and Elrond have chosen Firstborn, Elros Successors. There is debate about ears, afaik most people agree that they are suposed to have leaf shaped somewhat pointy ears like some humans (and Tolkien's wife) have. Didn't Elros basically become a Dunedain (with a long life span)? Making issues weirder, elves in Tolkien's universe were quite a bit different than DnD elves. They weren't immune to sleep (Luthien's sleep spells worked on some), and they resisted disease and healed faster than humans. (Dunedain were supposed to have gotten some of the latter two traits.) |
| Osedox05-09-06, 09:30 AM | I was just thinking about it and Dunedain of Middle Earth, are actualy more like DnD elves than anything. They had long, but not immortal lives, pointed ears, I believe, and werent totaly uber powerful like most Noldor. Didn't Elros basically become a Dunedain (with a long life span)?I think he was the first Dunedain, but im never positive. |
| aramil9905-10-06, 08:29 AM | I was just thinking about it and Dunedain of Middle Earth, are actualy more like DnD elves than anything. They had long, but not immortal lives, pointed ears, I believe, and werent totaly uber powerful like most Noldor. I think he was the first Dunedain, but im never positive. Dunedain means "Men of the West" and is generally synonymous with "Numenorean" -- the Men who travelled to and lived on Numenor at the start of the Second Age. So Elros was among the first Numenoreans and their first king, though they certainly were not all descended from him --- so he was not "first" in that sense. |
| Analysis05-10-06, 01:05 PM | ... Rolemaster/MERP game there were stats for some of these. This is not D&D, but the level range was similar (start at 1, official PC cap at 20). Saurons avatar was level 60, I believe. Radagast (weakest wizard) was level 40. Not that it matters. |