Arcane Archer concerns... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Arcane Archer concerns... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Dragan_Timeripper
12-20-03, 06:18 PM Hello all,

I just noticed something, and was wanting everybody's opinion on this. The Arcane Archer gets the ability to shoot arrows at an enhancement bonus. I'm not sure if this applies to the to hit/damage, but with the new DR system in 3.5, doesn't this make the class worth a whole lot less?

In the old system, where DR was based on the plus of the weapon, it was an awesome class. Now, I just don't know what to say. Please give me your responses on this concern. Thanks in advance.
ksbsnowowl
12-20-03, 08:02 PM Originally posted by Dragan_Timeripper
In the old system.....it was an awesome class No, it sucked before, and it sucks even more in 3.5.

"Why did it suck?" you might ask. Well, that's because its main ability (the magic arrows) could be duplicated with a 3rd level spell. Heck, pay 16,000 GP to get a 3rd level Pearl of Power and give it to the party mage on the condition that he provide you with magic arrows every day. Now you aren't even draining the spell resources of the rest of the group.

With a 16,000 GP item and a little party cooperation you effectively doubled the main abilities of a PrC, and now you have 10 levels to allocate to real archery PrC's that'll give you good abilities.

In 3.5 the AA's enhancement ability is all but worthless. The only instance where it is any benefit is if you were to get a +1 flaming, shocking burst, frost, holy, etc, etc, distance longbow.
Mitchell
12-21-03, 02:10 AM There is still the fact that you are more likely to hit, and that the arrows will do extra damage, possibly overcoming any creature DR. I only have the 3.5 PHB, so I don't know what may have changed in 3.5 in regards to the class. I just think having a +1-+5 bonus to hit and damage isn't a bad thing ever, and the class can go epic as well.
Xeviat-DM
12-21-03, 04:57 AM But the issue is that it takes several levels to become an arcane archer; 6 at the minimum if I remember correctly. A 7th level archer worth a cent is going to have a magic bow. Their +1 arrow ability is instantly worthless to them.

I am currently working on a modification to the Arcane Archer for my setting; I'm putting the arcane back into it. It's going to have a 1-4 level spell progression like the blackguard and the old blade singer. They're going to have the ability to create force arrows, so they no longer need a quiver. Later I may let their arrows act as brilliant energy when they choose to (so all and all their arrows will be +5 in total; ghost touch and brilliant energy).
The Messenger
01-02-04, 06:04 AM well that's awfully useless, isn't it? or if your GM allows for a magic item poor world then an Arcane Archer would be very useful.
Nifft
01-02-04, 01:17 PM Here's the updated version that I use IMC. It's not a straight conversion -- I didn't like that ArcArchers got so many HP, for example -- but it's faithful to the concept, and balanced against the MT and EK.

Actually Arcane Archer

Role: Niche Archer

Prerequisites:
Skill Ranks: Knowlege (Arcana) 5+, Spellcraft 5+
BAB: 5+
Feats: Weapon Focus (any Bow), Point Blank Shot and at least one of Rapid Shot, Precise Shot or Far Shot
Spellcasting: Ability to cast 1st-level Arcane spells as a Bard, Sorcerer or Wizard

HD: d6
BAB: Full (as Fighter)
Good Saves: Reflex, Will / Bad Save: Fortitude
Skill Points: 4 + Int bonus
Class Skills: Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowlege (Arcana, Nature, Religion, Dungeoneering, Planes) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis) and Swim (Str).

Level BAB Fort Ref Will Spellcasting Special Abilities
1 +1 +0 +2 +2 -- Imbue Arrows (Magic)
2 +2 +0 +3 +3 +1 Level Arrow Touch
3 +3 +1 +3 +3 -- Imbue Arrows (Effect)
4 +4 +1 +4 +4 +1 Level Arcane Shot I
5 +5 +1 +4 +4 -- Imbue Arrows (Effect)
6 +6 +2 +5 +5 +1 Level Combined Casting
7 +7 +2 +5 +5 -- Imbue Arrows (Effect)
8 +8 +2 +6 +6 +1 Level Penetrating Arrow
9 +9 +3 +6 +6 -- Enhance Effect
10 +10 +3 +7 +7 +1 Level Arcane Shot II, Enhance Effect

Special Abilities:

Spellcasting: When an even level of Arcane Archer is gained, the character gains new spells per day as if she had also gained a level in whatever arcane spellcasting class she belonged to before she added the prestige class. She does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. This essentially means that she adds the level of Arcane Archer to the level of whatever other arcane spellcasting class the character has, then determines spells per day and caster level accordingly. If a character had more than one arcane spellcasting class before she became an Arcane Archer, she must decide to which class she adds each level of Arcane Archer for the purpose of determining spells per day.
Special: If the character uses Bard spellcasting to qualify and chooses to extend her Bardic spellcasting, each even level of Arcane Archer also adds to her Bard level for the purpose of gaining additional daily uses and new effects from her Bardic Music.
Imbue Arrows (Magic) (Su): All arrows fired by the Arcane Archer gain a magical +1 Enhancement bonus. (Thus, they penetrate DR/Magic.)
Arrow Touch (Su): The Arcane Archer may deliver Touch or Ranged Touch spells via her arrows, though the arrow must hit normally (it is not treated as a ranged touch attack, simply as a ranged attack which also delivers the touch spell). The character must be "holding the charge" when she fires the arrow, and each arrow uses up a charge even if it misses.
Imbue Arrows (Effect) (Su): All arrows fired by the Arcane Archer are treated as if they had a single specific special ability from the following list: Bane*, Distance, Flaming, Frost, Ghost Touch, Keen, Merciful, Seeking, Shock, or Thundering; or gain a single alignment trait (Chaotic, Evil, Good, Lawful) for the purpose of penetrating damage reduction.
Each special ability can only be chosen once, except Bane, which can be chosen multiple times (picking a different designated foe each time). Once chosen, special abilities are fixed (cannot be exchanged).
You may choose a maximum of two Alignment traits, and they may not conflict (e.g. Lawful and Chaotic).
Arcane Shot I (Su): As a free action, the Arcane Archer may expend a prepared spell and focus its energy into one of her arrows. If the arrow strikes, it deals +1d4/spell level damage. The spell is expended even if the arrow misses. A cantrip grants +1 to damage.
Combined Casting (Su): As a full-round action, the Arcane Archer may both cast a spell (with a Casting Time of 1 standard action) and fire a single arrow.
Penetrating Arrow (Su): The Arcane Archer may choose to subtract a number from his BAB and add that number to his caster level for the purpose of overcoming SR. This ability only applies to spells delivered via his arrows.
Enhance Effect (Su): The Arcane Archer may upgrade one of his previously chosen Imbued Effects to a more powerful effect, as follows:
* Chaotic Alignment Trait -> Anarchic
* Lawful Alignment Trait -> Axiomatic
* Flaming -> Flaming Burst
* Good Alignment Trait -> Holy
* Frost -> Icy Burst
* Shock -> Shocking Burst
* Evil Alignment Trait -> Unholy
* Alternately, the Arcane Archer may choose to add an additional Effect from the lower-level ability list.
Arcane Shot II (Su): As Arcane Shot I above, except the arrow receices +1/spell level to the attack roll and +1d6/spell level to the damage roll. A cantrip grants +1 to attack and damage rolls.

-- N
Dragan_Timeripper
01-03-04, 03:57 PM Hello all,

Thanks for all of the responses. I hear a lot of concern over the magic bow/arcane archer concerns. Well, I have a resolution: The Bow of True Arrows from Sword and Fist. It's a Mighty Composite Longbow +1 that gives +20 to hit on activation, but cannot have any plusses. I can see no reason not to get this bow in combination with the class. Admittedly, it does require an activation, but that is easily done, and the occasional bonus to hit helps immensely.

Hope this helps. Happy gaming.
ksbsnowowl
01-03-04, 05:24 PM Originally posted by Dragan_Timeripper
It's a Mighty Composite Longbow +1 that gives +20 to hit on activation, but cannot have any plusses. Unless your DM imposed some rules on the matter, there is no rule disallowing further enchantment of specific magic items. They can be enhanced just like any other magic weapon. You could turn it into a +5 bow of true arrows if you wanted to.
detectevil
01-03-04, 07:32 PM Nifft: I liked your class very much. Very niffty. Well done.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dragan_Timeripper 12-20-03, 06:18 PM	Hello all, I just noticed something, and was wanting everybody's opinion on this. The Arcane Archer gets the ability to shoot arrows at an enhancement bonus. I'm not sure if this applies to the to hit/damage, but with the new DR system in 3.5, doesn't this make the class worth a whole lot less? In the old system, where DR was based on the plus of the weapon, it was an awesome class. Now, I just don't know what to say. Please give me your responses on this concern. Thanks in advance.
ksbsnowowl 12-20-03, 08:02 PM	Originally posted by Dragan_Timeripper In the old system.....it was an awesome class No, it sucked before, and it sucks even more in 3.5. "Why did it suck?" you might ask. Well, that's because its main ability (the magic arrows) could be duplicated with a 3rd level spell. Heck, pay 16,000 GP to get a 3rd level Pearl of Power and give it to the party mage on the condition that he provide you with magic arrows every day. Now you aren't even draining the spell resources of the rest of the group. With a 16,000 GP item and a little party cooperation you effectively doubled the main abilities of a PrC, and now you have 10 levels to allocate to real archery PrC's that'll give you good abilities. In 3.5 the AA's enhancement ability is all but worthless. The only instance where it is any benefit is if you were to get a +1 flaming, shocking burst, frost, holy, etc, etc, distance longbow.
Mitchell 12-21-03, 02:10 AM	There is still the fact that you are more likely to hit, and that the arrows will do extra damage, possibly overcoming any creature DR. I only have the 3.5 PHB, so I don't know what may have changed in 3.5 in regards to the class. I just think having a +1-+5 bonus to hit and damage isn't a bad thing ever, and the class can go epic as well.
Xeviat-DM 12-21-03, 04:57 AM	But the issue is that it takes several levels to become an arcane archer; 6 at the minimum if I remember correctly. A 7th level archer worth a cent is going to have a magic bow. Their +1 arrow ability is instantly worthless to them. I am currently working on a modification to the Arcane Archer for my setting; I'm putting the arcane back into it. It's going to have a 1-4 level spell progression like the blackguard and the old blade singer. They're going to have the ability to create force arrows, so they no longer need a quiver. Later I may let their arrows act as brilliant energy when they choose to (so all and all their arrows will be +5 in total; ghost touch and brilliant energy).
The Messenger 01-02-04, 06:04 AM	well that's awfully useless, isn't it? or if your GM allows for a magic item poor world then an Arcane Archer would be very useful.
Nifft 01-02-04, 01:17 PM	Here's the updated version that I use IMC. It's not a straight conversion -- I didn't like that ArcArchers got so many HP, for example -- but it's faithful to the concept, and balanced against the MT and EK. Actually Arcane Archer Role: Niche Archer Prerequisites: Skill Ranks: Knowlege (Arcana) 5+, Spellcraft 5+ BAB: 5+ Feats: Weapon Focus (any Bow), Point Blank Shot and at least one of Rapid Shot, Precise Shot or Far Shot Spellcasting: Ability to cast 1st-level Arcane spells as a Bard, Sorcerer or Wizard HD: d6 BAB: Full (as Fighter) Good Saves: Reflex, Will / Bad Save: Fortitude Skill Points: 4 + Int bonus Class Skills: Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowlege (Arcana, Nature, Religion, Dungeoneering, Planes) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis) and Swim (Str). Level BAB Fort Ref Will Spellcasting Special Abilities 1 +1 +0 +2 +2 -- Imbue Arrows (Magic) 2 +2 +0 +3 +3 +1 Level Arrow Touch 3 +3 +1 +3 +3 -- Imbue Arrows (Effect) 4 +4 +1 +4 +4 +1 Level Arcane Shot I 5 +5 +1 +4 +4 -- Imbue Arrows (Effect) 6 +6 +2 +5 +5 +1 Level Combined Casting 7 +7 +2 +5 +5 -- Imbue Arrows (Effect) 8 +8 +2 +6 +6 +1 Level Penetrating Arrow 9 +9 +3 +6 +6 -- Enhance Effect 10 +10 +3 +7 +7 +1 Level Arcane Shot II, Enhance Effect Special Abilities: Spellcasting: When an even level of Arcane Archer is gained, the character gains new spells per day as if she had also gained a level in whatever arcane spellcasting class she belonged to before she added the prestige class. She does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. This essentially means that she adds the level of Arcane Archer to the level of whatever other arcane spellcasting class the character has, then determines spells per day and caster level accordingly. If a character had more than one arcane spellcasting class before she became an Arcane Archer, she must decide to which class she adds each level of Arcane Archer for the purpose of determining spells per day. Special: If the character uses Bard spellcasting to qualify and chooses to extend her Bardic spellcasting, each even level of Arcane Archer also adds to her Bard level for the purpose of gaining additional daily uses and new effects from her Bardic Music. Imbue Arrows (Magic) (Su): All arrows fired by the Arcane Archer gain a magical +1 Enhancement bonus. (Thus, they penetrate DR/Magic.) Arrow Touch (Su): The Arcane Archer may deliver Touch or Ranged Touch spells via her arrows, though the arrow must hit normally (it is not treated as a ranged touch attack, simply as a ranged attack which also delivers the touch spell). The character must be "holding the charge" when she fires the arrow, and each arrow uses up a charge even if it misses. Imbue Arrows (Effect) (Su): All arrows fired by the Arcane Archer are treated as if they had a single specific special ability from the following list: Bane, Distance, Flaming, Frost, Ghost Touch, Keen, Merciful, Seeking, Shock, or Thundering; or gain a single alignment trait (Chaotic, Evil, Good, Lawful) for the purpose of penetrating damage reduction. Each special ability can only be chosen once, except Bane, which can be chosen multiple times (picking a different designated foe each time). Once chosen, special abilities are fixed (cannot be exchanged). You may choose a maximum of two Alignment traits, and they may not conflict (e.g. Lawful and Chaotic). Arcane Shot I (Su): As a free action, the Arcane Archer may expend a prepared spell and focus its energy into one of her arrows. If the arrow strikes, it deals +1d4/spell level damage. The spell is expended even if the arrow misses. A cantrip grants +1 to damage. Combined Casting (Su): As a full-round action, the Arcane Archer may both cast a spell (with a Casting Time of 1 standard action) and fire a single arrow. Penetrating Arrow (Su): The Arcane Archer may choose to subtract a number from his BAB and add that number to his caster level for the purpose of overcoming SR. This ability only applies to spells delivered via his arrows. Enhance Effect (Su): The Arcane Archer may upgrade one of his previously chosen Imbued Effects to a more powerful effect, as follows: Chaotic Alignment Trait -> Anarchic * Lawful Alignment Trait -> Axiomatic * Flaming -> Flaming Burst * Good Alignment Trait -> Holy * Frost -> Icy Burst * Shock -> Shocking Burst * Evil Alignment Trait -> Unholy * Alternately, the Arcane Archer may choose to add an additional Effect from the lower-level ability list. Arcane Shot II (Su): As Arcane Shot I above, except the arrow receices +1/spell level to the attack roll and +1d6/spell level to the damage roll. A cantrip grants +1 to attack and damage rolls. -- N
Dragan_Timeripper 01-03-04, 03:57 PM	Hello all, Thanks for all of the responses. I hear a lot of concern over the magic bow/arcane archer concerns. Well, I have a resolution: The Bow of True Arrows from Sword and Fist. It's a Mighty Composite Longbow +1 that gives +20 to hit on activation, but cannot have any plusses. I can see no reason not to get this bow in combination with the class. Admittedly, it does require an activation, but that is easily done, and the occasional bonus to hit helps immensely. Hope this helps. Happy gaming.
ksbsnowowl 01-03-04, 05:24 PM	Originally posted by Dragan_Timeripper It's a Mighty Composite Longbow +1 that gives +20 to hit on activation, but cannot have any plusses. Unless your DM imposed some rules on the matter, there is no rule disallowing further enchantment of specific magic items. They can be enhanced just like any other magic weapon. You could turn it into a +5 bow of true arrows if you wanted to.
detectevil 01-03-04, 07:32 PM	Nifft: I liked your class very much. Very niffty. Well done.