Arcane Archer question. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Arcane Archer question. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Glarb
03-30-06, 03:46 PM My player group that i play with was wondering about the following:

If you play an Arcane Archer, you give your non-magical arrows a +x enhancement bonus depending on your level.

Now let's say your a lvl 3 Arcane Archer (lvl 6 fighter lvl 2 wizard lvl 3 arcane archer) for the complete picture. This would give all your non-magical arrows a +2 enhancement bonus.

However should you use a non-magical arrow, and a magical bow, like a +1 flaming longbow. Does this mean all the arrows you nock are +2 flaming. Or because you use a magical bow, they are treated as magic arrows and thus still +1 flaming arrows.

Thank you for your reply in advance

with regards,

Glarb
frasmage
03-30-06, 04:03 PM well its kind of up to the house rules you are using, you have to specify whether or not amunition bonuses stack with weapon bonuses.

As far as I can say, correct me if im wrong, is that if they do stack, you fire as a +3 flaming weapon; if they don't stack, the enhancement bonus of the arrows is higher and thus overrides the bows bonus making it +2, but it still has the flaming quality.

Hope this helps
Glarb
03-30-06, 04:11 PM According to our house rules, the latter would be true, but would it still get the flaming property, or not.

Because if it could according to the v3.5 rules this would mean, that in concept, you could make a +1 bow, with abilities, filling the other +9 enhancement slots, (as you approach/ enter epic lvl's) and have 10 lvl's in Arcane archer, and thus effectively have a +14weapon (due to the abilities as shock/flaming filling the other slots).

Thx. again.
Yarbogash
03-30-06, 04:51 PM Glarb is on the right track. By RAW 'At 1st level, every nonmagical arrow an arcane archer nocks and lets fly becomes magical, gaining a +1 enhancement bonus' and 'The enhancement bonus from a ranged weapon does not stack with the enhancement bonus from ammunition. Only the higher of the two enhancement bonuses applies' but all other abilities on the bow effect the arrow, eg flaming, seeking, icy burst, etc.

Personally I don't see any need to house rule this. This benefit is an obvious and integral part of the Arcane Archer's power curve and yes, a smart Arcane Archer will have a +1 bow with a load of special powers.

And note Hexblades make interesting Arcane Archers. Good defence ability. Fewer feats, uggh. Earliest entry into the class.
Glarb
03-30-06, 05:06 PM Thank you for clearing that up.
solbergb
03-31-06, 12:59 PM Hexblades are also the only "full BAB" arcane archers.

However they do pay a price other than feats. Their spells are far less suited to archery than the wiz/sor list (at least if Complete Adventurer or Spell Compendium are used...if you are PHB only, it isn't as clear).

Also many archers like to have high spot skills and decent stealth skills, which is hard to do with the hexblade skill list and with the need to prioritize charisma instead of intelligence. (sorc arcane archers have the same issues with low intelligence, but at least can take ranger levels to get some skills...)
Yarbogash
03-31-06, 04:17 PM sobergb, very good point.

The Hexblade AA should be Hexblade 4 only, then you can take either fighter 2 or ranger 2; fighter for 1 more feat, ranger for more skills (take ranger at level 1 if you go this route).

You have to be a Half-Elf but it's worth it. Ranger is a good choice.

I actually like Ranger 2/Hexblade 4/AA from then on and make the race Catperson from Races of the Wild; Dex +4, Cha +2, favored class Ranger, spd 40', +2 Listen and Move Silently, low light, +1 nat armor, +1 level adjustment but it synergizes perfectly with the build.

Re spells, I say forget spells. The AA does not make a great caster tho using wizard spell trigger items is nice. You can buy some wands of Ranger and Hexblade spells if you like.
solbergb
03-31-06, 04:26 PM Well, It's tough to ignore the impact of spells like guided shot and arrow mind on an archer. Or for that matter benign transposition. The familiar is also like getting about 7 skill points into spot/listen, even if you don't use it as an independent scout. The utility spell side of the equation even with just L1 wizard scrolls is also distinctly lacking from the hexblade mix.

Prett much all hexblade gives you that an archer might want is one more point of BAB and a good will save. These are good things. But there is a cost to it.

I don't think you can use a catperson arcane archer. It's limited to elves and halfelves only. If you aren't Humanoid(Elf), you can't take the class.

There's pretty much no reason to go hexblade4/fighter2 - ranger2/hexblad4 is superior in pretty much every way. You get the free feat (rapid shot). you get another free feat (track). You get favored enemy. You get a reflex save boost as well as the fort save boost. You get a pile of skill points, especially if your first level is ranger. Fighter gives you nothing but a couple extra hitpoints and the ability to do rapid shot in fullplate.
Yarbogash
03-31-06, 04:41 PM Oops about the Catfolk. The Planescape campaign I'm in now the dm is very loose with alignment and race restrictions on PrC's. My mistake.

And yeah, beyond rp considerations Ranger is the better choice like I noted already.

The Hexblade does add more to the mix; Arcane Resistance and Mettle are sweet.

I've played the Wiz 1 AA. If you have easy access in the campaign to purchasing spell trigger item's and can afford them it's good. If you don't, it's useless.

And with the Hexblade pitch to your dm the idea of foregoing the familiar for a free feat. I've seen some dm's do that with a number of different classes that have familiars. Try it with the Wiz too. I usually find familiars just to be a pain in the ass and in this case it will be really really weak. More than likely your familiar is going to die very soon.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Glarb 03-30-06, 03:46 PM	My player group that i play with was wondering about the following: If you play an Arcane Archer, you give your non-magical arrows a +x enhancement bonus depending on your level. Now let's say your a lvl 3 Arcane Archer (lvl 6 fighter lvl 2 wizard lvl 3 arcane archer) for the complete picture. This would give all your non-magical arrows a +2 enhancement bonus. However should you use a non-magical arrow, and a magical bow, like a +1 flaming longbow. Does this mean all the arrows you nock are +2 flaming. Or because you use a magical bow, they are treated as magic arrows and thus still +1 flaming arrows. Thank you for your reply in advance with regards, Glarb
frasmage 03-30-06, 04:03 PM	well its kind of up to the house rules you are using, you have to specify whether or not amunition bonuses stack with weapon bonuses. As far as I can say, correct me if im wrong, is that if they do stack, you fire as a +3 flaming weapon; if they don't stack, the enhancement bonus of the arrows is higher and thus overrides the bows bonus making it +2, but it still has the flaming quality. Hope this helps
Glarb 03-30-06, 04:11 PM	According to our house rules, the latter would be true, but would it still get the flaming property, or not. Because if it could according to the v3.5 rules this would mean, that in concept, you could make a +1 bow, with abilities, filling the other +9 enhancement slots, (as you approach/ enter epic lvl's) and have 10 lvl's in Arcane archer, and thus effectively have a +14weapon (due to the abilities as shock/flaming filling the other slots). Thx. again.
Yarbogash 03-30-06, 04:51 PM	Glarb is on the right track. By RAW 'At 1st level, every nonmagical arrow an arcane archer nocks and lets fly becomes magical, gaining a +1 enhancement bonus' and 'The enhancement bonus from a ranged weapon does not stack with the enhancement bonus from ammunition. Only the higher of the two enhancement bonuses applies' but all other abilities on the bow effect the arrow, eg flaming, seeking, icy burst, etc. Personally I don't see any need to house rule this. This benefit is an obvious and integral part of the Arcane Archer's power curve and yes, a smart Arcane Archer will have a +1 bow with a load of special powers. And note Hexblades make interesting Arcane Archers. Good defence ability. Fewer feats, uggh. Earliest entry into the class.
Glarb 03-30-06, 05:06 PM	Thank you for clearing that up.
solbergb 03-31-06, 12:59 PM	Hexblades are also the only "full BAB" arcane archers. However they do pay a price other than feats. Their spells are far less suited to archery than the wiz/sor list (at least if Complete Adventurer or Spell Compendium are used...if you are PHB only, it isn't as clear). Also many archers like to have high spot skills and decent stealth skills, which is hard to do with the hexblade skill list and with the need to prioritize charisma instead of intelligence. (sorc arcane archers have the same issues with low intelligence, but at least can take ranger levels to get some skills...)
Yarbogash 03-31-06, 04:17 PM	sobergb, very good point. The Hexblade AA should be Hexblade 4 only, then you can take either fighter 2 or ranger 2; fighter for 1 more feat, ranger for more skills (take ranger at level 1 if you go this route). You have to be a Half-Elf but it's worth it. Ranger is a good choice. I actually like Ranger 2/Hexblade 4/AA from then on and make the race Catperson from Races of the Wild; Dex +4, Cha +2, favored class Ranger, spd 40', +2 Listen and Move Silently, low light, +1 nat armor, +1 level adjustment but it synergizes perfectly with the build. Re spells, I say forget spells. The AA does not make a great caster tho using wizard spell trigger items is nice. You can buy some wands of Ranger and Hexblade spells if you like.
solbergb 03-31-06, 04:26 PM	Well, It's tough to ignore the impact of spells like guided shot and arrow mind on an archer. Or for that matter benign transposition. The familiar is also like getting about 7 skill points into spot/listen, even if you don't use it as an independent scout. The utility spell side of the equation even with just L1 wizard scrolls is also distinctly lacking from the hexblade mix. Prett much all hexblade gives you that an archer might want is one more point of BAB and a good will save. These are good things. But there is a cost to it. I don't think you can use a catperson arcane archer. It's limited to elves and halfelves only. If you aren't Humanoid(Elf), you can't take the class. There's pretty much no reason to go hexblade4/fighter2 - ranger2/hexblad4 is superior in pretty much every way. You get the free feat (rapid shot). you get another free feat (track). You get favored enemy. You get a reflex save boost as well as the fort save boost. You get a pile of skill points, especially if your first level is ranger. Fighter gives you nothing but a couple extra hitpoints and the ability to do rapid shot in fullplate.
Yarbogash 03-31-06, 04:41 PM	Oops about the Catfolk. The Planescape campaign I'm in now the dm is very loose with alignment and race restrictions on PrC's. My mistake. And yeah, beyond rp considerations Ranger is the better choice like I noted already. The Hexblade does add more to the mix; Arcane Resistance and Mettle are sweet. I've played the Wiz 1 AA. If you have easy access in the campaign to purchasing spell trigger item's and can afford them it's good. If you don't, it's useless. And with the Hexblade pitch to your dm the idea of foregoing the familiar for a free feat. I've seen some dm's do that with a number of different classes that have familiars. Try it with the Wiz too. I usually find familiars just to be a pain in the ass and in this case it will be really really weak. More than likely your familiar is going to die very soon.