Arcane Archers [Archive] - Wizards Community

Arcane Archers [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
SkullsForKhorne
12-24-06, 04:40 AM Anyone else find it irksome that RAW Arcane Archers require arcane casting as a prereq? I know I know, they are called Arcane archers, but this more or less forces a prospective AA (say from a ranger or a fighter) waste a level on an arcane spellcasting class (if not more in order to have any spells worth putting on their arrows) to take the PrC.

I've given thought to opening the PrC to arcane OR divine spell casters to give rangers easier access to Arcane Archery...call it a Divine Archer maybe...

Something to think about...
runestar
12-24-06, 05:00 AM You could remove the spellcasting requirement and give it its own limited spellcasting...somewhat like the 3.0 version of the bladesinger or the justice of wield and woe prc in champions of ruin...:)
SkullsForKhorne
12-24-06, 05:07 AM ;) That's a notion....
Ghenesh
12-24-06, 12:08 PM You could give him a few "+1 level of existing spellcasting class", it won't broke the class anyway. I actually house ruled it that they get it at 5th and 10th level, to give them a more arcanist flavor.
StevenO
12-25-06, 12:25 AM There are a number of 3/4 BAB classes that grant the prereq spells and shouldn't have much trouble entering AA. If you're using the PHB2 or Complete Warrior each of them has a full BAB class that grants arcane spells.
scottt
12-26-06, 09:51 PM Is it just my imagination or didn't Rangers use to be an Arcane casting class way back in 2nd Ed?

It really seems that Arcane Archer is meant to be an elven ranger/wizard prestige class although it seems to work well with bards and others as well.

If your GM were feeling particularly kind they could quite easily make a Divine Archer PrC for you, then you could segway straight from Ranger.

On a side note, don't scoff at having to take a level of Wizard... one level of wizard can be absolutely brutal for a fighter class. Shield and True Strike are pretty scary spells for an archer or a 2H or 2W fighter and all those ranged touch spells with no save...
Mitchell
12-26-06, 10:35 PM I know in 1st edition rangers recieved some wizard spells as well as druid spells. I think they got up to 3rd level druid spells and 2nd level wizard spells, though I could have that backwards. Not going to rummage through my 1st edition stuff right now. :cool:
In 2nd edition I'm not so sure how it worked.
BoDiddilly
12-29-06, 08:00 PM Has anyone ever thought of the AA as a caster class? It seems to get bashed alot but I think it is very powerful as it is and perfectly suited for the flavor and roll it is ment to take

waste a level on an arcane spellcasting class (if not more in order to have any spells worth putting on their arrows) to take the PrC.
I mean come on look at this. Imbue arrow is obviously the classes trump ability. why would you so easily shove it aside along with his caster asecpts. That is after all the larger half of the class right? wthout that the aa is just a useless gimped PcR that grants a few tricks to high level archers. Here is an idea for an archer wth some special tricks http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=174367

The arcana archer on the other hand seems best suited for high lvl caster and caster/achers who wish to trade in caster progression for the ability to freely acompany there spells wth an attack.
Magrus
12-29-06, 08:14 PM Has anyone ever thought of the AA as a caster class?

Often, unfortunately, I never get the choice to deal with trying it out. I think if you built a sorcerer or wizard around this ability, with the right spells and a high dexterity, it could do very well. All of those nifty spells that deal damage centered on the caster suddenly have a range. Fireburst at a range of 100 feet with it centered on the chest of the incoming ogre anyone? Acid Arrow to deal with a Troll at range?
General_Ridley
12-29-06, 10:12 PM Take levels of Hexblade (CW).

full BAB, and gets arcane spellcasting at the same rate (and basically levels) as a Ranger/Paladin.

there you go. Arcane Archer without losing BAB.
Arem_K
12-30-06, 03:26 AM Has anyone ever thought of the AA as a caster class? It seems to get bashed alot but I think it is very powerful as it is and perfectly suited for the flavor and roll it is ment to take

You would be giving up two caster levels for the opportunity to add the damage of one arrow to a magic spell. It also only works with area spells. One could easily argue that the spell does not fire on miss, since the spell is centered on the arrow, and the arrow just presumably went sailing past the target.
Magrus
12-30-06, 02:23 PM Just area spells? Damn. Still, you needn't hit the target creature. Just a target. You could fire a fireburst imbued arrow at the ground 300 feet away in the middle of a crowd instead of the fighters in full plate. Whats hitting the ground at a distance like that? -4 to hit for distance and maybe a 10-15 AC or so? Arrow hits ground, fireburst goes off around arrow at ground level.

Not the most "heroic" way of doing so, you don't get the extra arrow damage. However, it can expand the range of the spell considerably. Think of the use of the following spells when shot at a distance from cover on approaching enemies:

Fireburst
Web
Burning Hands
Sleet Storm
Ice Storm
Stinking Cloud
Deep Slumber
Fireball
Lightning Bolt
Slow
Solid Fog
Wall of Fire
Fear
Cloudkill
etc, etc
StevenO
12-30-06, 09:22 PM A two level dip into Arcane Archer can work for a caster working on an otherwise full casting progression. For your two levels you gain: +2 BAB and +3 on each of your weak saves, you get skill points to spend in some decent skill, you (almost) always have a magic weapon available, and with Imbue Arrow your area spells get a big range increase. Additionally you gain a bunch of new weapon proficiencies which may be important for other reasons.

Targeting a spot on the ground is only AC 5. 5'x5' for medium AC 10 - 5 Dex (0) modifier.
Krevon
12-31-06, 01:57 AM i played a 25th level character once it was rouge6/assassin10/arcane atcher10....it was quite powerful.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
SkullsForKhorne 12-24-06, 04:40 AM	Anyone else find it irksome that RAW Arcane Archers require arcane casting as a prereq? I know I know, they are called Arcane archers, but this more or less forces a prospective AA (say from a ranger or a fighter) waste a level on an arcane spellcasting class (if not more in order to have any spells worth putting on their arrows) to take the PrC. I've given thought to opening the PrC to arcane OR divine spell casters to give rangers easier access to Arcane Archery...call it a Divine Archer maybe... Something to think about...
runestar 12-24-06, 05:00 AM	You could remove the spellcasting requirement and give it its own limited spellcasting...somewhat like the 3.0 version of the bladesinger or the justice of wield and woe prc in champions of ruin...:)
SkullsForKhorne 12-24-06, 05:07 AM	;) That's a notion....
Ghenesh 12-24-06, 12:08 PM	You could give him a few "+1 level of existing spellcasting class", it won't broke the class anyway. I actually house ruled it that they get it at 5th and 10th level, to give them a more arcanist flavor.
StevenO 12-25-06, 12:25 AM	There are a number of 3/4 BAB classes that grant the prereq spells and shouldn't have much trouble entering AA. If you're using the PHB2 or Complete Warrior each of them has a full BAB class that grants arcane spells.
scottt 12-26-06, 09:51 PM	Is it just my imagination or didn't Rangers use to be an Arcane casting class way back in 2nd Ed? It really seems that Arcane Archer is meant to be an elven ranger/wizard prestige class although it seems to work well with bards and others as well. If your GM were feeling particularly kind they could quite easily make a Divine Archer PrC for you, then you could segway straight from Ranger. On a side note, don't scoff at having to take a level of Wizard... one level of wizard can be absolutely brutal for a fighter class. Shield and True Strike are pretty scary spells for an archer or a 2H or 2W fighter and all those ranged touch spells with no save...
Mitchell 12-26-06, 10:35 PM	I know in 1st edition rangers recieved some wizard spells as well as druid spells. I think they got up to 3rd level druid spells and 2nd level wizard spells, though I could have that backwards. Not going to rummage through my 1st edition stuff right now. :cool: In 2nd edition I'm not so sure how it worked.
BoDiddilly 12-29-06, 08:00 PM	Has anyone ever thought of the AA as a caster class? It seems to get bashed alot but I think it is very powerful as it is and perfectly suited for the flavor and roll it is ment to take waste a level on an arcane spellcasting class (if not more in order to have any spells worth putting on their arrows) to take the PrC. I mean come on look at this. Imbue arrow is obviously the classes trump ability. why would you so easily shove it aside along with his caster asecpts. That is after all the larger half of the class right? wthout that the aa is just a useless gimped PcR that grants a few tricks to high level archers. Here is an idea for an archer wth some special tricks http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=174367 The arcana archer on the other hand seems best suited for high lvl caster and caster/achers who wish to trade in caster progression for the ability to freely acompany there spells wth an attack.
Magrus 12-29-06, 08:14 PM	Has anyone ever thought of the AA as a caster class? Often, unfortunately, I never get the choice to deal with trying it out. I think if you built a sorcerer or wizard around this ability, with the right spells and a high dexterity, it could do very well. All of those nifty spells that deal damage centered on the caster suddenly have a range. Fireburst at a range of 100 feet with it centered on the chest of the incoming ogre anyone? Acid Arrow to deal with a Troll at range?
General_Ridley 12-29-06, 10:12 PM	Take levels of Hexblade (CW). full BAB, and gets arcane spellcasting at the same rate (and basically levels) as a Ranger/Paladin. there you go. Arcane Archer without losing BAB.
Arem_K 12-30-06, 03:26 AM	Has anyone ever thought of the AA as a caster class? It seems to get bashed alot but I think it is very powerful as it is and perfectly suited for the flavor and roll it is ment to take You would be giving up two caster levels for the opportunity to add the damage of one arrow to a magic spell. It also only works with area spells. One could easily argue that the spell does not fire on miss, since the spell is centered on the arrow, and the arrow just presumably went sailing past the target.
Magrus 12-30-06, 02:23 PM	Just area spells? Damn. Still, you needn't hit the target creature. Just a target. You could fire a fireburst imbued arrow at the ground 300 feet away in the middle of a crowd instead of the fighters in full plate. Whats hitting the ground at a distance like that? -4 to hit for distance and maybe a 10-15 AC or so? Arrow hits ground, fireburst goes off around arrow at ground level. Not the most "heroic" way of doing so, you don't get the extra arrow damage. However, it can expand the range of the spell considerably. Think of the use of the following spells when shot at a distance from cover on approaching enemies: Fireburst Web Burning Hands Sleet Storm Ice Storm Stinking Cloud Deep Slumber Fireball Lightning Bolt Slow Solid Fog Wall of Fire Fear Cloudkill etc, etc
StevenO 12-30-06, 09:22 PM	A two level dip into Arcane Archer can work for a caster working on an otherwise full casting progression. For your two levels you gain: +2 BAB and +3 on each of your weak saves, you get skill points to spend in some decent skill, you (almost) always have a magic weapon available, and with Imbue Arrow your area spells get a big range increase. Additionally you gain a bunch of new weapon proficiencies which may be important for other reasons. Targeting a spot on the ground is only AC 5. 5'x5' for medium AC 10 - 5 Dex (0) modifier.
Krevon 12-31-06, 01:57 AM	i played a 25th level character once it was rouge6/assassin10/arcane atcher10....it was quite powerful.