Arcane Duelist question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Arcane Duelist question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
shadow mage
02-18-05, 08:38 PM Now, I like a good duelist as much as anyone. The whole "light-footed fighter" concept appeals to me. Therefore, hearing about an arcane duelist tickled my fancy twice-over with the sound of magic combined with swordsmanship (see Character Build Spotlight: Gish link in my sig). But then I saw the class itself.

Arcane duelists (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20030224a) have some great abilities. Two good saves are nice, as is the d8 for hit points. It has a nice skill list that's Dexterity and Charisma-oriented. Hell, this bad-boy even requires +6 Base Attack as well as 1st level spells just to get in, meaning that at the EARLIEST you're taking your first level of Arcane Duelist as an 8th level character. Here's my problem.

Why in the name of everything holy does this have a LOW BASE ATTACK BONUS? Not high, not even medium, but low. I consider myself fairly good at minmaxing when I put my mind to it, a good talent to have when checking builds for potential munchkin-ness and legality, and I have yet to find a reasonable purpose for this extremely-crippling feature. Its abilities are nowhere near good enough to justify that, and if they are somebody please explain to me how.

So yeah. I'm lost, confused, and wondering why such a good concept is so thoroughly ruined by that one feature. Help?
Ravenous187
02-19-05, 01:09 AM I am guessing because of the Enchant Chosen Weapon +X ability. They probably thought the pluses to hit would get really high with good BA and this ability.

You can always change it to suit your needs. If you think it deserves better BA then give it more BA. I personally think it should have Medium BA.

If you changed the way Enchant Chosen Weapon worked you could raise the BA to full. Just make the ability go to +5 and not allow it to stack. This would make it similar to the Arcane Archer PrC.

Hope this helps. :)
runestar
02-19-05, 01:37 AM The idea of this prc is "you suck, but people think you rock!" Read the desc again, you trick people into thinking you are very strong, but this not a true reflection of your true skill at weapons. It has abilities for reducing damage to get high to hit bonuses, perhaps for the "first blood" type of challenge. There are also the weapon enhancement bonuses, to get +9 weapon at lv14..., hence the low bab.

It's not too shabby. If you can use power attack in conjunction with the ability that lets you subtract damage from rapier to get +5 to hit, this means you are doing max(base 6 dam) dam each hit, like a permanent ki strike.
If you can convince your dm to continue the weapon enhancement boons, you don't have to enchant another weapon ever again. Mix in blackguard for dark blessing and serve....

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
shadow mage 02-18-05, 08:38 PM	Now, I like a good duelist as much as anyone. The whole "light-footed fighter" concept appeals to me. Therefore, hearing about an arcane duelist tickled my fancy twice-over with the sound of magic combined with swordsmanship (see Character Build Spotlight: Gish link in my sig). But then I saw the class itself. Arcane duelists (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20030224a) have some great abilities. Two good saves are nice, as is the d8 for hit points. It has a nice skill list that's Dexterity and Charisma-oriented. Hell, this bad-boy even requires +6 Base Attack as well as 1st level spells just to get in, meaning that at the EARLIEST you're taking your first level of Arcane Duelist as an 8th level character. Here's my problem. Why in the name of everything holy does this have a LOW BASE ATTACK BONUS? Not high, not even medium, but low. I consider myself fairly good at minmaxing when I put my mind to it, a good talent to have when checking builds for potential munchkin-ness and legality, and I have yet to find a reasonable purpose for this extremely-crippling feature. Its abilities are nowhere near good enough to justify that, and if they are somebody please explain to me how. So yeah. I'm lost, confused, and wondering why such a good concept is so thoroughly ruined by that one feature. Help?
Ravenous187 02-19-05, 01:09 AM	I am guessing because of the Enchant Chosen Weapon +X ability. They probably thought the pluses to hit would get really high with good BA and this ability. You can always change it to suit your needs. If you think it deserves better BA then give it more BA. I personally think it should have Medium BA. If you changed the way Enchant Chosen Weapon worked you could raise the BA to full. Just make the ability go to +5 and not allow it to stack. This would make it similar to the Arcane Archer PrC. Hope this helps. :)
runestar 02-19-05, 01:37 AM	The idea of this prc is "you suck, but people think you rock!" Read the desc again, you trick people into thinking you are very strong, but this not a true reflection of your true skill at weapons. It has abilities for reducing damage to get high to hit bonuses, perhaps for the "first blood" type of challenge. There are also the weapon enhancement bonuses, to get +9 weapon at lv14..., hence the low bab. It's not too shabby. If you can use power attack in conjunction with the ability that lets you subtract damage from rapier to get +5 to hit, this means you are doing max(base 6 dam) dam each hit, like a permanent ki strike. If you can convince your dm to continue the weapon enhancement boons, you don't have to enchant another weapon ever again. Mix in blackguard for dark blessing and serve....