Post/Author/DateTime	Post
curtisjo 07-30-07, 05:32 PM	My DM thinks that the Arcane Hierophant is too powerful? Is It? I think its a little over the top but no more than most PRCs. What should I do to dumb it down a little so I can get it? I just love the companion familiar.
IdleAltruism 07-30-07, 06:29 PM	Meh, this class is actually quite weak. You do get to wildshape which is nice, but you're going to loose 4 levels wizard and 3 levels of druid. So you're going to be behind the first 12 or so levels of the game. Even at 17th level when this PrC ends you end up with 14 druid(7th level spells) and 13 wizard(again 7th spells)if you take the next 3 levels of druid you'll gain access to 9th level spells at level 20. Or you can take 2 levels wizard 1 level druid for access to 8th level spells in both. I'm not sure if this class gives additional wildshape per day. I would think it does but I'm not 100% on this. These kind of classes really don't work well at low levels. They're alright high levels but if you give up more then 1 or 2 levels of spellcasting you're going to fall behind.
Manyfist 07-30-07, 08:44 PM	Meh, this class is actually quite weak. You do get to wildshape which is nice, but you're going to loose 4 levels wizard and 3 levels of druid. So you're going to be behind the first 12 or so levels of the game. Even at 17th level when this PrC ends you end up with 14 druid(7th level spells) and 13 wizard(again 7th spells)if you take the next 3 levels of druid you'll gain access to 9th level spells at level 20. Or you can take 2 levels wizard 1 level druid for access to 8th level spells in both. I'm not sure if this class gives additional wildshape per day. I would think it does but I'm not 100% on this. These kind of classes really don't work well at low levels. They're alright high levels but if you give up more then 1 or 2 levels of spellcasting you're going to fall behind. However you get to cast in Druid Armor, and get access to Divine and Wizard spells. Not to mention you can take Practiced Spellcaster and you're spell caster level will be up to speed. Not to mention your Animal Companion gets a HUGE boost in power. You gain additional wildshapes per day as if you gained a level in Druid. With Familiar Companion you can delver spells touch spells, which can be very devastating. Its mainly for the higher levels, since it requires at least 4 Druid/3 Wiz. However its not too powerful, since at higher levels you are below the average party and when you come close to finishing you're a bit above average however at High Levels power levels aren't that large of a gap.
Shaggy_Shaggs 07-30-07, 08:53 PM	Course if you care more about the magic than the wild shape, you can enter via Wizard 3/Druid 3/Mystic Theurge 4 and end up casting as a Wizard 17/Druid 17 by 20th level, before screwing around with feats. ;)
Wraithwin 07-30-07, 11:27 PM	Too powerful? Uh, not really. It's rough, but not too rough really. All it's doing is giving you a different set of options. For comparable classes, think; - Mystic Theurge (DMG, generally Wizard/Cleric, really any divine/arcane) - Fochlucan Lyrist (CA, typically Bard/Druid, can vary) - Eldritch Desciple (CM, Warlock or Dragonfire Adept / Cleric) - Eldritch Theurge (CM, Warlock / Arcane) - Ultimate Magus (CM, Arcane/Arcane) - Anima Mage (ToM, Binder / Arcane) - Noctumancer (ToM, Shadowcaster / Arcane) - Jade Phoenix Mage (ToB, Initiator / Arcane) Each of them typically combines two powerful classes to begin with while presumably progressing both. All the classes give interesting class abilities which can be powerful when used in the right places (except Mystic Theurge but the combined spell list of a cleric and wizard typically make up for it). You can always ask your DM which he thinks is "too powerful"... A character throwing Reincarnates and Wish in Wild Shape or A character throwing Miracles in a Time Stop or A character with Mass-Harm that throws 8d6 blasts casually with no limit or An Anima Mage that throws Tenser's Transformation while bound with Buer, Paimon and Savnok or A character striking for 100+ Damage and throwing a 5th level spell (or empowered fireball) in the same round Every single one of these options is a load of fun, and can be extremely powerful - but each one of them has their limits. For every thing your DM thinks is bad, somebody here on the boards can easily give you ten things worse - likely without even touching a PrC! Personally the Tenser's Transed Anima Mage is the one that, as a DM, has me going: "Ok, seriously, what the frig?!" Let's be theoretical and say 18th level now... BAB 18/13/8/3, Nat Armor +4, Fort Saves +4, STR/DEX/CON +4 (enhancement), Immunity to Poison and Disease (shared with all allies as long as they remain within 30ft), Fast Healing 4, Can heal 1d8+10 as a full round action by touch 1/5 rounds, spring-attack-on-crack 1/5 rounds, weapon finesse if you use a rapier or shortsword, +4 bonus to Dexterity (untyped - stacks with Tenser's), uncanny dodge, Whirlwind Attack (without needing any pre-reqs), heavy armor proficiency, ability to summon +2 moderate fortification full-plate as a FR action, and DR 5/Magical and Piercing. ...and this requires only 1 feat (favored vestige: Buer), and the Tenser's spell (well, and a rapier on hand)! It doesn't even count any magical items you have, or the values of your base stats (I figure base stats Int up to 18, Con up to 16, CHA/STR/DEX 14 if possible. Wisdom's up in the air). Tenser's Trans stops spell-casting - not supernatural abilities, which are the bread and butter of binders. Ok... My rant aside... You can explain to your DM that it looks powerful, but in reality it's simply focused. Encourage him to let you play it on the premise that he should see a player play one at least once before passing his final judgement (as I've forced myself to do over the years). ...and if he still doesn't believe you, you can always tell people here what classes the other characters in the party are, and I'm sure somebody would be willing to make them sound worse than the Arcane Heirophant. LOL