Arcane Hierophant vs Straight Druid. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Arcane Hierophant vs Straight Druid. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
CrashtheStyx
04-12-07, 03:05 AM I'm wondering if anyone has play tested a Arcane Hierophant vs a plain Druid. I realize you get more casting, but with the lower hit points (from both arcane levels and AH's d6), and the reduced druid levels overall to make the arcane casting requirement is wild shape worth it?

Companion familiar is fun and all, but how much more powerful would a smarter animal companion be?

One could even argue that their casting is no better, sacrificing higher spell slots for more diversity...

Any opinions?
Empiro
04-12-07, 03:18 AM I've never played an Arcane Hierophant, though I've studied them and have thought about it quite a bit. They're certainly not the meleers that pure druids can be. But yes, they do have much more versitility and way more spells.

They're basically a class that stands back and casts a spell every round all day long. If you also take it with Mystic Theurge, you can get level 9 druid and wizard spells at level 20, which is very nice.

So essentially, the tradeoff is between melee and higher druid spells versus having way, way more versitility. They make terrific support characters, that's for sure, they're hardly a replacement for a pure cleric and pure wizard or sorceror.
Nezkrul
04-12-07, 09:39 AM i've played one from level 16 upto level 40ish, it was a long campaign. i enjoyed more than just a straight druid. mostly because in the quintessential party, i was the "arcane" caster. Natural Spell was definitely a must for the build, and once I hit 25 hitdice for wildshape, and picked up a template that made me an outsider, I was always wildshaped as one of many different outsiders (including White Slaad). You don't really lose out on wildshape much, but you gain A LOT.
Peregrine_Wolf
04-12-07, 11:20 AM I'm going to play Arcane Heirophant in a campaign I'm in. Just an example of its power...a line of orcs is coming at you, your familiar companion is off to the side of them, you launch a lightening bolt from your companion familiar through all the orcs. Lovely
CrashtheStyx
04-12-07, 12:23 PM Alright then, how are you going about getting into the prestige? 3 levels of wizard/4 of druid? Or maybe 6 lvls of druid/1 lvl wizard and some form of accelerated entry listed here:

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=796496

Then I assume your focusing yourself as a spellcaster for all feat purposes.
Natural spell, maybe Natural bond, Practiced spellcaster, maybe sculpt spell?
Toxic_Shaman
04-12-07, 12:27 PM I think the druid has the potential for more raw power, unless you are playing to very high level where the wizard casting can get to a point to be competitive. I've played both, and enjoyed both, but like most Dual casting prestige classes, the low levels are brutal.
kyros_the_spawnslayer
04-14-07, 12:02 AM This si from Races of the Wild right, cause I keep hearing about this class but I never seen the book for it.
CrashtheStyx
04-14-07, 01:31 PM This si from Races of the Wild right, cause I keep hearing about this class but I never seen the book for it.

Yeah from races of the wild. It's your normal duel casting PrC, but it has more druid flavor to it. Druid levels stack with PrC lvls to figure wildshape, as well as your animal companions. A real nifty thing about it is the Companion Familiar, it takes your familiar, dismisses it, and added the progression that would apply to it to your animal companions instead...producing a smart animal companion with more NA, ability to deliver touch spells, imp evasion, etc.

But yeah, check it out. I'm thinking I'm going to have to play one when I get the chance.
Chimaera2000
04-15-07, 03:05 AM I'm not overly familiar with the Arcane Hierophant, as I've only looked at it briefly. I can say that in general dual-casting spellcasters tend to be more versatile, but less powerful than a single-classed spellcaster.
Gnarl
04-15-07, 07:32 AM In the game I run, one of my players played a straight druid from level 1 to 11. Eventually, she got bored of playing a druid (she considered flavorless) so I let helped her redesign her character into something more exotic: we picked the arcane hierophant. Her character is currently level 15.

She focused on buffing up her animal companion, spellcasting and social skills. She took practiced spellcaster twice, companion spellbond, animal bond and fell drain.

At first the character was only slightly weaker as we though fell drain could drain multiple levels per casting (she used fell drain chill touch on her animal companion). Once we realized/ruled that she couldn’t, the character was significantly weaker. She was a decent buffer, decent damage dealer, decent at battle field control but a master of none. She was always weaker than the other primary casters and fighter in their respective fields of expertise.

Nevertheless, the character was colorful and useful in almost every possible situation that occurred. No matter the situation, she always had some spell, skill or ability to help the party.

Among the factors that made her weaker than the others are: the lack of funds to buy both a headband of intellect and a periapt of wisdom, she had to increase two primary spellcasting abilities, and the loss of the higher level spell slots.

As a side note, you don’t have that many more spells than a straight caster. She was running out of spells at the same time the primary casters were.
The_Shaman
04-15-07, 07:53 AM What about sorcerer hierophants, btw? Has anyone tried one?
CrashtheStyx
04-15-07, 02:50 PM What about sorcerer hierophants, btw? Has anyone tried one?

Never tried one obviously...but I'm sure you could sacrifice some of the mass versatility for more spells per day. I'm sure you could focus your druid spells for the versatility and use your sorcerer spells for blasting. But it would take one more level of sorcerer to hit the arcane casting requirement.
The_Shaman
04-15-07, 04:03 PM True, and to a druid intelligence might be more useful than charisma. As usual...sigh. Mind you, a druid/beguiler... now that is someone you don't want to mess with, especially on his turf ;)
Gnarl
04-15-07, 04:03 PM Never tried one obviously...but I'm sure you could sacrifice some of the mass versatility for more spells per day. I'm sure you could focus your druid spells for the versatility and use your sorcerer spells for blasting. But it would take one more level of sorcerer to hit the arcane casting requirement.

I'm not sure using arcane spells for blasting is a really good idea. The druid already has a fair selection of those. What the druid lacks is enchantments, illusions and battle-field control spells. I would focus on these types of spells with the arcane caster.
Cael
04-15-07, 08:30 PM AH is better than a pure Druid if you want to play "Buff the Animal Companion". This is because it gets a fairly high Int (smarter than the average Commoner), which in turn allows you to give it complex commands, instead of just the standard ones in the PHB. Also, it allows it to think and react more intelligently, instead of blind instinct. With the right PrC and feats, you can easily get Epic level Animal Companions pre-Epic.
Peregrine_Wolf
04-17-07, 05:02 PM W00tne$$ on a stick =p

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
CrashtheStyx 04-12-07, 03:05 AM	I'm wondering if anyone has play tested a Arcane Hierophant vs a plain Druid. I realize you get more casting, but with the lower hit points (from both arcane levels and AH's d6), and the reduced druid levels overall to make the arcane casting requirement is wild shape worth it? Companion familiar is fun and all, but how much more powerful would a smarter animal companion be? One could even argue that their casting is no better, sacrificing higher spell slots for more diversity... Any opinions?
Empiro 04-12-07, 03:18 AM	I've never played an Arcane Hierophant, though I've studied them and have thought about it quite a bit. They're certainly not the meleers that pure druids can be. But yes, they do have much more versitility and way more spells. They're basically a class that stands back and casts a spell every round all day long. If you also take it with Mystic Theurge, you can get level 9 druid and wizard spells at level 20, which is very nice. So essentially, the tradeoff is between melee and higher druid spells versus having way, way more versitility. They make terrific support characters, that's for sure, they're hardly a replacement for a pure cleric and pure wizard or sorceror.
Nezkrul 04-12-07, 09:39 AM	i've played one from level 16 upto level 40ish, it was a long campaign. i enjoyed more than just a straight druid. mostly because in the quintessential party, i was the "arcane" caster. Natural Spell was definitely a must for the build, and once I hit 25 hitdice for wildshape, and picked up a template that made me an outsider, I was always wildshaped as one of many different outsiders (including White Slaad). You don't really lose out on wildshape much, but you gain A LOT.
Peregrine_Wolf 04-12-07, 11:20 AM	I'm going to play Arcane Heirophant in a campaign I'm in. Just an example of its power...a line of orcs is coming at you, your familiar companion is off to the side of them, you launch a lightening bolt from your companion familiar through all the orcs. Lovely
CrashtheStyx 04-12-07, 12:23 PM	Alright then, how are you going about getting into the prestige? 3 levels of wizard/4 of druid? Or maybe 6 lvls of druid/1 lvl wizard and some form of accelerated entry listed here: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=796496 Then I assume your focusing yourself as a spellcaster for all feat purposes. Natural spell, maybe Natural bond, Practiced spellcaster, maybe sculpt spell?
Toxic_Shaman 04-12-07, 12:27 PM	I think the druid has the potential for more raw power, unless you are playing to very high level where the wizard casting can get to a point to be competitive. I've played both, and enjoyed both, but like most Dual casting prestige classes, the low levels are brutal.
kyros_the_spawnslayer 04-14-07, 12:02 AM	This si from Races of the Wild right, cause I keep hearing about this class but I never seen the book for it.
CrashtheStyx 04-14-07, 01:31 PM	This si from Races of the Wild right, cause I keep hearing about this class but I never seen the book for it. Yeah from races of the wild. It's your normal duel casting PrC, but it has more druid flavor to it. Druid levels stack with PrC lvls to figure wildshape, as well as your animal companions. A real nifty thing about it is the Companion Familiar, it takes your familiar, dismisses it, and added the progression that would apply to it to your animal companions instead...producing a smart animal companion with more NA, ability to deliver touch spells, imp evasion, etc. But yeah, check it out. I'm thinking I'm going to have to play one when I get the chance.
Chimaera2000 04-15-07, 03:05 AM	I'm not overly familiar with the Arcane Hierophant, as I've only looked at it briefly. I can say that in general dual-casting spellcasters tend to be more versatile, but less powerful than a single-classed spellcaster.
Gnarl 04-15-07, 07:32 AM	In the game I run, one of my players played a straight druid from level 1 to 11. Eventually, she got bored of playing a druid (she considered flavorless) so I let helped her redesign her character into something more exotic: we picked the arcane hierophant. Her character is currently level 15. She focused on buffing up her animal companion, spellcasting and social skills. She took practiced spellcaster twice, companion spellbond, animal bond and fell drain. At first the character was only slightly weaker as we though fell drain could drain multiple levels per casting (she used fell drain chill touch on her animal companion). Once we realized/ruled that she couldn’t, the character was significantly weaker. She was a decent buffer, decent damage dealer, decent at battle field control but a master of none. She was always weaker than the other primary casters and fighter in their respective fields of expertise. Nevertheless, the character was colorful and useful in almost every possible situation that occurred. No matter the situation, she always had some spell, skill or ability to help the party. Among the factors that made her weaker than the others are: the lack of funds to buy both a headband of intellect and a periapt of wisdom, she had to increase two primary spellcasting abilities, and the loss of the higher level spell slots. As a side note, you don’t have that many more spells than a straight caster. She was running out of spells at the same time the primary casters were.
The_Shaman 04-15-07, 07:53 AM	What about sorcerer hierophants, btw? Has anyone tried one?
CrashtheStyx 04-15-07, 02:50 PM	What about sorcerer hierophants, btw? Has anyone tried one? Never tried one obviously...but I'm sure you could sacrifice some of the mass versatility for more spells per day. I'm sure you could focus your druid spells for the versatility and use your sorcerer spells for blasting. But it would take one more level of sorcerer to hit the arcane casting requirement.
The_Shaman 04-15-07, 04:03 PM	True, and to a druid intelligence might be more useful than charisma. As usual...sigh. Mind you, a druid/beguiler... now that is someone you don't want to mess with, especially on his turf ;)
Gnarl 04-15-07, 04:03 PM	Never tried one obviously...but I'm sure you could sacrifice some of the mass versatility for more spells per day. I'm sure you could focus your druid spells for the versatility and use your sorcerer spells for blasting. But it would take one more level of sorcerer to hit the arcane casting requirement. I'm not sure using arcane spells for blasting is a really good idea. The druid already has a fair selection of those. What the druid lacks is enchantments, illusions and battle-field control spells. I would focus on these types of spells with the arcane caster.
Cael 04-15-07, 08:30 PM	AH is better than a pure Druid if you want to play "Buff the Animal Companion". This is because it gets a fairly high Int (smarter than the average Commoner), which in turn allows you to give it complex commands, instead of just the standard ones in the PHB. Also, it allows it to think and react more intelligently, instead of blind instinct. With the right PrC and feats, you can easily get Epic level Animal Companions pre-Epic.
Peregrine_Wolf 04-17-07, 05:02 PM	W00tne$$ on a stick =p