Post/Author/DateTime	Post
tompulsar 01-07-05, 04:34 AM	Hi everyone. I'm attempting to make a matial class that blends warrior and wizard together for and elite order of protectors for a wizard themed country in my homebrew campaign. I decided to go light on the special abilies in favor for a more modular fighter. I gave them wizard style spell casting and used the adept spells per day (slightly modified). I am not sure if this class is to powerful and would like some oppinions about it. The main things I would like to keep are the BAB and spell progression and would like some input on balacing those elements. **************************************** **************** Arcane Knight Arcane Knight Spells Per Day Level Base Attack Fort Ref Will Class Abilities 0 1 2 3 4 5 1. +1 +2 +0 +0 Specialized focus 2 0 2. +2 +3 +0 +0 2 1 3. +3 +3 +1 +1 3 2 4. +4 +4 +1 +1 Summon Familiar 3 2 0 5. +5 +4 +1 +1 Bonus Feat 3 3 1 6. +6/+1 +5 +2 +2 3 3 2 7. +7/+2 +5 +2 +2 4 3 2 8. +8/+3 +6 +2 +2 4 3 3 0 9. +9/+4 +6 +3 +3 4 3 3 1 10. +10/+5 +7 +3 +3 Bonus Feat 4 3 3 2 11. +11/+6/+1 +7 +3 +3 4 4 3 2 12. +12/+7/+2 +8 +4 +4 4 4 3 3 0 13. +13/+8/+3 +8 +4 +4 4 4 3 3 1 14. +14/+9/+4 +9 +4 +4 4 4 3 3 2 15. +15/+10/+5 +9 +5 +5 Bonus Feat 4 4 4 3 2 16. +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +5 +5 4 4 4 3 3 0 17. +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +5 4 4 4 3 3 1 18. +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +6 4 4 4 3 3 2 19. +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +6 4 4 4 4 3 2 20. +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +6 Bonus Feat 4 4 4 4 3 3 Arcane Knights are the exemplars of a particular school of magic, devoting their considerable intellectual and martial skills to protecting their chosen school with all their power. They tend to follow many of the stereotypes of specialist mages in their attitudes and habits but generally have more aggressive personalities. They enthusiastically defend the reputation of their orders and their chosen school of magic many times hiring themselves out as bodyguards to specialist mages of their own specialized focus. Abilities: Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution are as important to arcane knights as to any other warrior and Intelligence governs the arcane knight’s spellcasting and skills. The path of the arcane knight is both physically and mentally demanding Alignment: Any. Hit Die: d8. Class Skills The arcane knight's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Jump (Str), Knowledge (all skills taken separately) (Int), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Spellcraft (Int), and Swim (Str) Bonus skill based on chosen school: Abjuration: Diplomacy (Cha) Conjuration: Bluff (Cha) Divination: Sense Motive (Wis) Enchantment: Perform (Cha) Evocation: Intimidate (Cha) Illusion: Disguise (Cha) Necromancy: Heal (Wis) Transmutation: Survival (Wis) Skill Points at 1st Level: (2 + Int modifier) x 4. Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int modifier. Class Features Weapon and Armor Proficiency: An arcane knight is proficient with all simple and martial weapons. The arcane knight is proficient with all armors but not with shields. An arcane knight can cast any of their arcane knight spells while wearing light armor without risk of arcane spell failure. Summon Familiar: At 4th level an arcane knight may summon a familiar just like a wizard or sorcerer Bonus Feats: An arcane knight may choose bonus feats from the fighter list of bonus feats provided the arcane knight qualifies for the feat. An arcane knight gets a new bonus feat at 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th levels. Spells: An arcane knight cast arcane spells, which are drawn primarily from the sorcerer /wizard list. He cast any spells in his spell book by preparing it ahead of time, the way a wizard must. To learn to cast a spell, an arcane knight must have a Intelligence score equal to at least 10+ the spell’s level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against an arcane knight’s spell is 10 + the spell’s level + the arcane knight’s Charisma modifier. The arcane knight follows all of the spell casting rules of a wizard except that the arcane knight may only learn spells of up to 5th level. Specialized Focus: All arcane knights focus on one of the 8 schools of magic gaining a special affinity for their chosen school. At first level the arcane knight chooses a school of magic to be his focus school. The arcane knight gains a +2 bonus on all saves against that school of magic and the spell focus feat for the chosen school. The arcane Knight then chooses any three schools of magic to become prohibited schools (with the exception of the divination school). This functions just like the prohibited schools chosen by a specialist wizard with the standard penalties norm
dantedarkstar 01-07-05, 08:41 AM	While the idea is not bad it's a bit absolete. There is already Eldritch Knight, and he fills role of wizard/fighter very good. With Ftr 5/Wiz 5/EKn 10 you are giving up 3 BAB in comparison to your class, but get to cast as 15th level wizard (which means up to 8th level spells). Your concept is basically the same as Eldritch Knight, so I don't really see the point of making new class.
tompulsar 01-07-05, 03:51 PM	Actually Dante, the point of the class is a pretty simple one. While eldricht knight has sort of the feel I am looking for, I didn't want every npc member of the orders these knights come from be as high level as a prestige class requires. Yet I still wanted them to have a little combat and spellcasting power (a minor nitpick I know). But back to my original question, to powerful? to weak? Anybody?
der_gogo 01-07-05, 03:58 PM	How about Hexblade (iirc Complete Warrior)? It seems to be exactly what you are searching for. Maybe change it a bit so that it fits to your campaign (instead of Hexes defending abilities maybe...) I would give the class a casting ability like the Ranger or the Paladin with a Spelllist similiar to the Wizard. Lvl 5 spells are quite powerful... Or you could use a modified bard...
tompulsar 01-07-05, 04:30 PM	Hi der_gogo, thanks for the input. I was kinda basing it on hexblade already, what you are looking at is my stripped down version (sort of). I was trying for a more generic non-spontanious caster that superficially resembled the hexblade (may have failed there) As for the 5th level spells I doupt they would be a problem since this seems to be a pretty stat oriented class and most warriors are probably not going to have a 20 Int by 16th level they will more than likely be recieveing their one and only 5th level spell per day at 17th level. Nothing I personally has a problem with but heck if you can think of some game breaker i do not know about let me know. I havent played to many high level games.
kidman 01-07-05, 07:20 PM	maby you could take a few idas from the suel annarch prc with out the dispelling stuff
Arcane Guyver 01-07-05, 08:51 PM	This is a nice class. A fighter/mage that doesn't ram a particular flavor (like music or hexes) down the player's throat. I especially like how you went with more of a bardic spell progression (spells at first level!) and how the specialization slightly changes your skill list. The only thing I'd really bother changing is letting them max out their spell slots/day with 4, instead of 3. I know you're keeping it at 3 because that's how the others (Ranger, Pal & Hexer) do it...but you're also giving spells about 3 levels earlier than them, as it's much more important for this class. I'd also recommend switching out the Familiar for something that players might actually want (especially since any arcane caster can now get one with the Obtain Familiar feat from CA). How about Mettle? :D
dantedarkstar 01-08-05, 04:22 AM	From the balance point of view, the class is fine I think. While it has better spellcasting than normal full BAB fighters/spellcasters (paladin, ranger), lack of other class features combined with heavy specialization limitation (3 schools banned for just Arcane Defense equivalent and spell focus) balances it out. At least IMHO. Just compare it to Ftr/Wiz/EKn. At low levels, it is better, but it's nothing wrong to be a bit better than ftr/wiz. At higher levels hovewer, I think it even loses a bit to EKn build. At 5th: Ftr 1/Wiz 4 : BAB +3, spellcasting lev 4 wiz AKn 5 : BAB +5, spellcasting ~3 wiz equivalent, but with 3 schools banned and CL 5 At 10th: Ftr 1/Wiz 5/EKn 4 : BAB +7, spellcasting lev 8 wiz AKn 10 : BAB +10, spellcasting ~6 wiz equivalent, but with 3 schools banned and CL 10 At 15th: Ftr 1/Wiz 5/WKn 9 : BAB +12, spellcasting lev 13 wiz AKn 15 : BAB +15, spellcasting ~8 wiz equivalent, but with 3 schools banned and CL 15 At 20th: Ftr 4/Wiz 6/EKn 10 : BAB +17, spellcasting lev 15 wiz AKn 20 : BAB +20, spellcasting ~12 wiz equivalent, but with 3 schools banned, no 6th level spells and CL 20 As we can see, Arcane Knight has significantly worse spellcasting most of the time, but a bit better BAB, few bonus feats and better CL (unless EKn takes Practised Spellcaster feat). Considering limits placed on Arcane Knight spellcasting, I think the class is perfectly fine. Of course a minor problem of comparison to a pure fighter arises, but it occurs when we compare almost anything to pure fighter. My final opinion: Balanced
tompulsar 01-08-05, 05:02 AM	:D Thanks Arcane Guyver, I'm pretty proud if that skill point thing myself but I would rather leave the familiar ability as I was going to ask for help deciding what would be good spellcasting level equivelents for taking Improved Familiar for other types of creatures such as common and uncommon mounts (possibly on another thread, weird I know) And thank You Dantedarkstar for the breakdown and analysis, very cool of you. What do you think of boosting the max spell slots like A.G. suggested? Also Do you think the bonus skill choices are appropriate to the various schools? Again thanks for the help guys :)
dantedarkstar 01-08-05, 06:52 PM	I don't think that boosting the spells to 4 max would be unbalacing. However, it should be taken into consideration that wizard also maxes at 4. As for skills, I see that Conjuration, Abjuration and Transmutation have a bit off skills. However, I can't think of any better.
tompulsar 01-10-05, 12:29 AM	okee-dokee Added the 4th spell per day at levels that seem appropriate points ...and yeah I was having trouble assigning school specific class skills I was trying to think of a skill that seemed to fit the personalties of the average specialist of the particular school. My rational for abjurer having diplomacy forinstance was that if your a caster of what is sort of passive magic in general you would want to be able to avoid conflicts and make allies without ever actually casting a spell (pretty flimsy reasoning I know) Again, if anyone has a more appropriate skill suggestion let me know.