Arcane Trickster help [Archive] - Wizards Community

Arcane Trickster help [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Cuddly_Wuddlykins
03-26-07, 09:29 PM Hi im going to play an arcane trickster in my DM's next campaign and im wondering what class should it take first Wizard or Rogue im going to be them both but i was wonder which one i should take first?

Thanks in advance
tuberov
03-26-07, 11:04 PM Take rogue for your first level at least. That gets you tons of skills points to start off with.

After that, it's really up to what you need based on the campaign, I would think.
tombowings
03-26-07, 11:16 PM Take rogue first level. Then if you have another caster, take another rogue (Wizards from there). If there is no other caster; rogue, then wizard (4 i think), another rogue, then go into arcane trickster.
legowarrior
03-27-07, 12:14 AM How about a Spellthief, with Master Spellthief feat from complete Scoundral. You can steal spells with great ease, in light armor.
tombowings
03-27-07, 12:18 AM But it would take a while to get the casting requirements and the spell prgression of the spell thief isn;t nearly as good as the wizards. It would be better to stay spell thief
legowarrior
03-27-07, 12:37 AM No, what I mean is Spellthief/wizard/Arcane Trickster with Master Spell Thief. Wizards spell casting, with the ability to steal up to 9th level spells, and casting in light armor. No cons.
Although a Spellthief/Sorcerer/Arcane Trickster would be better.
tombowings
03-27-07, 11:27 AM I like the flavor of that more.
The_Shaman
03-27-07, 03:22 PM Wait, as a spellthief won't you still have ASF with your wizard spells?

I think beguiler/rogues could make decent arcane tricksters though. Mind you, it might not be more powerful than a straight beguiler, just... different.
teshen
03-27-07, 04:33 PM Wait, as a spellthief won't you still have ASF with your wizard spells?I believe so.

I can't remember the exact build, but for an Eberron game I made a Rogue 1/Wizard 3/Rogue 1/Unseen Seer 7(?)/Arcane Trickster 8. I tried to get out of Unseen Seer before the third divination spell power loss...

I used the second level of rogue at the fifth character level to finish all the necessary skill points needed to get into Unseen Seer and practiced caster to make up for the caster level losses for two levels of rogue and the divination spell power feature of the Unseen Seer. A specialist wizard could be good for this (think some of the specialist variants out of Unearthed Arcana)... or if you're an elf, the wizard substitution levels out of Races of the Wild would work well.

I played a changeling for this, but human, illuman, high elf, sun elf, and grey elf all do this pretty well... so would whisper gnome. :angelhide
The_Shaman
03-27-07, 05:04 PM I think you could just use battle sorcerer, but the low number of spells can be a pain - especially if you're not allowed to take one of the Dragon magazine bloodline feats for extra spells (which imo sorcerers should get instead of a familiar, but maybe it's just me).
legowarrior
03-27-07, 05:07 PM One of the perks of Master Spellthief. That feat makes all kinds of combinations possible.
I wonder, could you use your free ranged sneak attack to steal spells?
teshen
03-27-07, 07:21 PM I think you could just use battle sorcerer, but the low number of spells can be a pain. . .True enough. If you want a higher base attack, that would be the way to go. But as you point out, spells become tighter...

And your point about beguiler as a base... I like it... but do beguilers get mage hand?

Another possiblity for more ranged attack goodness is work in the spellwarp sniper from Complete Scoundrel... that plus the arcane trickster could get decent bonus damage on a sudden strike/sneak attack. For that I would recommend a sorcerer... or maybe a warmage . :hides:
The_Shaman
03-27-07, 07:42 PM True enough. If you want a higher base attack, that would be the way to go. But as you point out, spells become tighter...

And your point about beguiler as a base... I like it... but do beguilers get mage hand? . :hides:

Hmm, good question. Wait a moment... Hmm, apparently no. Well, you can use the variant provided for warmages and allow them to get a non-illusion/enchantment spell through advanced learning. It's a cantrip, after all... and since they already have open/close I think it would be close enough.
teshen
03-27-07, 09:28 PM . . . but do beguilers get mage hand? Hmm, apparently no. Well, you can use the variant provided for warmages and allow them to get a non-illusion/enchantment spell through advanced learning.
Actually, I wouldn't make them do that... granted it is 'houseruled' but I'd just let them sub out open/close for mage hand... if they really want to do that for arcane trickster.

Does the eclectic learning feature(?) make the spell you chose one level higher? Or is my memory playing tricks on me? :confused:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Cuddly_Wuddlykins 03-26-07, 09:29 PM	Hi im going to play an arcane trickster in my DM's next campaign and im wondering what class should it take first Wizard or Rogue im going to be them both but i was wonder which one i should take first? Thanks in advance
tuberov 03-26-07, 11:04 PM	Take rogue for your first level at least. That gets you tons of skills points to start off with. After that, it's really up to what you need based on the campaign, I would think.
tombowings 03-26-07, 11:16 PM	Take rogue first level. Then if you have another caster, take another rogue (Wizards from there). If there is no other caster; rogue, then wizard (4 i think), another rogue, then go into arcane trickster.
legowarrior 03-27-07, 12:14 AM	How about a Spellthief, with Master Spellthief feat from complete Scoundral. You can steal spells with great ease, in light armor.
tombowings 03-27-07, 12:18 AM	But it would take a while to get the casting requirements and the spell prgression of the spell thief isn;t nearly as good as the wizards. It would be better to stay spell thief
legowarrior 03-27-07, 12:37 AM	No, what I mean is Spellthief/wizard/Arcane Trickster with Master Spell Thief. Wizards spell casting, with the ability to steal up to 9th level spells, and casting in light armor. No cons. Although a Spellthief/Sorcerer/Arcane Trickster would be better.
tombowings 03-27-07, 11:27 AM	I like the flavor of that more.
The_Shaman 03-27-07, 03:22 PM	Wait, as a spellthief won't you still have ASF with your wizard spells? I think beguiler/rogues could make decent arcane tricksters though. Mind you, it might not be more powerful than a straight beguiler, just... different.
teshen 03-27-07, 04:33 PM	Wait, as a spellthief won't you still have ASF with your wizard spells?I believe so. I can't remember the exact build, but for an Eberron game I made a Rogue 1/Wizard 3/Rogue 1/Unseen Seer 7(?)/Arcane Trickster 8. I tried to get out of Unseen Seer before the third divination spell power loss... I used the second level of rogue at the fifth character level to finish all the necessary skill points needed to get into Unseen Seer and practiced caster to make up for the caster level losses for two levels of rogue and the divination spell power feature of the Unseen Seer. A specialist wizard could be good for this (think some of the specialist variants out of Unearthed Arcana)... or if you're an elf, the wizard substitution levels out of Races of the Wild would work well. I played a changeling for this, but human, illuman, high elf, sun elf, and grey elf all do this pretty well... so would whisper gnome. :angelhide
The_Shaman 03-27-07, 05:04 PM	I think you could just use battle sorcerer, but the low number of spells can be a pain - especially if you're not allowed to take one of the Dragon magazine bloodline feats for extra spells (which imo sorcerers should get instead of a familiar, but maybe it's just me).
legowarrior 03-27-07, 05:07 PM	One of the perks of Master Spellthief. That feat makes all kinds of combinations possible. I wonder, could you use your free ranged sneak attack to steal spells?
teshen 03-27-07, 07:21 PM	I think you could just use battle sorcerer, but the low number of spells can be a pain. . .True enough. If you want a higher base attack, that would be the way to go. But as you point out, spells become tighter... And your point about beguiler as a base... I like it... but do beguilers get mage hand? Another possiblity for more ranged attack goodness is work in the spellwarp sniper from Complete Scoundrel... that plus the arcane trickster could get decent bonus damage on a sudden strike/sneak attack. For that I would recommend a sorcerer... or maybe a warmage . :hides:
The_Shaman 03-27-07, 07:42 PM	True enough. If you want a higher base attack, that would be the way to go. But as you point out, spells become tighter... And your point about beguiler as a base... I like it... but do beguilers get mage hand? . :hides: Hmm, good question. Wait a moment... Hmm, apparently no. Well, you can use the variant provided for warmages and allow them to get a non-illusion/enchantment spell through advanced learning. It's a cantrip, after all... and since they already have open/close I think it would be close enough.
teshen 03-27-07, 09:28 PM	. . . but do beguilers get mage hand? Hmm, apparently no. Well, you can use the variant provided for warmages and allow them to get a non-illusion/enchantment spell through advanced learning. Actually, I wouldn't make them do that... granted it is 'houseruled' but I'd just let them sub out open/close for mage hand... if they really want to do that for arcane trickster. Does the eclectic learning feature(?) make the spell you chose one level higher? Or is my memory playing tricks on me? :confused: