Arcane trickster: Opinions [Archive] - Wizards Community

Arcane trickster: Opinions [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
BigFatTexta
01-15-07, 08:14 PM In our latest campaign I've been playing the party rogue, which I've built around Int and Dex and had considered Arcane Trickster as a possible PrC route.
Now I'd pretty much decided to give up on the AT and go straight rogue, but at the last gaming session the DM hinted at a plot arch that included a new system of casting arcane spells.
Now I'm reconsidering the AT thing but I still thhink PrC looks a little rubbish.
Just wondering what people's opinions or experiences are with the Trickster, is it worth sacrificing HP, BAB and skills for ranged theiving and a cheap sneak attack?
I'm not convinced.
IdleAltruism
01-15-07, 08:42 PM I personaly like the class. Making yourself invisable with ranged touch spells is always fun. It brings alot of versatility to the rogue.If you really don't like it take a look at the unseen seer from the complete mage, its probably more what you're looking for if you are worried about BA.
SephDragoon
01-15-07, 09:13 PM The Daggerspell Mage is a much better prc if you are already using daggers and twf. I love that class, and switched to it after playing an arcane trickster in another campaign. Arcane trickster just had too many abilities that were wasted on me.

Also, Daggerspell Mage is more fighting oriented (with the ability to burn spells for damage, hold touch attacks, channel touch attacks, and always keep both daggers in your hand instead of dropping to give somatic components). The only gripe anyone ever has is the first level doesn't give a boost to casting, but that is a very minor thing in my book, especially when you get to level 10 in it (a flurry of daggers all dealing sneack attack cus of greater invisibility, followed by vampiric touch, also dealing sneack attack damage is godly for 1 round).
BigFatTexta
01-15-07, 10:26 PM Arcane trickster just had too many abilities that were wasted on me.
Dude, its got like two abilities :P

when you get to level 10 in it (a flurry of daggers all dealing sneack attack cus of greater invisibility, followed by vampiric touch, also dealing sneack attack damage is godly for 1 round).

Ooch! yeah that sounds gross.

Should probably mention I'm not really a munchkin gamer. But I don't want to be monster fodder either. Was kind of wondering if people had any experience's outside of combat that make it a good class to play.
Seems to me to be a little more mage than rogue.
paladin2019
01-15-07, 10:33 PM My only dislike of the class is the the 3rd level arcane spellcasting requirement. I would much prefer 2nd level, so the class is attainable as the character's 7th level. Otherwise, I prefer core stuff and I like it. I had to leave the campaign I was in just before I leveled into the class so I have no practical info on how well it actually plays.
JulesCARV
01-15-07, 10:44 PM I like them. I wish they didn't have the "non-lawful" requirement: bards are already closed off to lawful characters who want a mix of skills and arcane power, and forbidding lawful arcane tricksters too seems gratuitous.
StevenO
01-16-07, 12:00 AM I'd say Arcane Trickster is more for the thieving spellcaster than a thief who dables in magic. To me the class is great although it seems to require one of two viewpoints. The first is that of a spellcaster who has a few rogue levels (say the party needs a trap finder) and needs to develope both talents. The second is a character who devotes energy into making ranged sneak attacks with spells.

The AT is NOT a melee class but with improved invisibility and a large number of spells that require a ranged touch attack it can be a sneak attack machine. Consider that you can have a 0-level spell deal over 7d6 damage with sneak attack and you should see its strengths.

Depending on how much a party needs the skills of a full rogue. I'll always consider moving a non-physical rogue into a spellcaster to qualify for the AT. If you want to be a "hands on" type rogue with some magic skill then look for other PrCs but if you prefer to stay off to the side then consider the AT.
Father Dale
01-16-07, 09:06 AM Yes, the AT is best for ranged attackers. I've actually found that the most devestating builds focus on bow users, since they can get multiple attacks in a round at range, as opposed to just using rays, which you can only get once per round. With the right combination of spells, you can get the attack very high, and since you will almost always be attacking while invisible or blinking, its usually easy to hit people.
Laucian The Black Hearted
01-16-07, 12:24 PM I have no experience with the class but I'm currently playing a Gnome Illusionist that just picked up a level in Rogue. I definitely agree that the class seems better for thieving spellcasters than spellcasting thieves.
Jigokusabre
01-16-07, 02:15 PM For a class that grants full caster progression, it's not bad. The only problem is that it's a bit vanilla, and really only of use if you're committing yourself to the "sneak attack with ray spells" tactic. By the time you can get AT, traps are not so much a concern that you need to be worried about Rogue-ing from a distance.
Nezkrul
01-16-07, 03:23 PM ever since complete arcane, i've loved the AT. greater invisibility coupled with a metamagic rod of quicken, and the 4th level Orb spells can deal some pretty insane damage with sneak attack. And its really cool when you get to high levels, where you can sneak attack with an Energy Drain, and follow it up with a metamagic rod quickened Energy Drain Impromptu Sneak Attack :D , or for more fun, replace both with Meteor Swarms :D
Rickiel
01-16-07, 03:37 PM I don't know how many times I've had to defend the position of the Arcane Trickster as a viable PrC. Though I would most certainly prefer it if it's requirement for spell-casting was 2nd level spells instead of 3rd.

It's an especially great class if you have either the Arcane Strike or Razing Strike feats. It's also a great class that works well with others. Or to put it bluntly, if you work as a team it helps defining your role on said team.

If you do not like it's non-lawful requirement, make it lawful while thinking up a really good reason why. The Complete Scoundrel supplement helps immensely on how any alignment can be a scoundrel of sorts!

I think most people hate how it only has two unique class abilities, Ranged Legerdemain (for some it is rather limiting) and Impromptu Sneak Attack (It's devastatingly fun!). However, in the game Neverwinter Nights 2, the Ranged Legerdemain ability was replaced with Pilfer Magic. A touch-attack lesser dispel ability that if successful granted a bonus on saves for limited time.

Perhaps the class would benefit greatly if the Pilfer Magic ability replaces the progression of Ranged Legerdemain while the Ranged Legerdemain ability was gained at 1st level with the ability to be used an amount of times per day equal to Arcane Trickster's Intelligence Modifier.

Also think of the Ambush Feats from Dragon Magazine and Complete Scoundrel. You'll have the Sneak Attack dice to qualify for many of the feats and some of them such as Eldritch Erosion will help you immensely in overcoming your opponent's spell resistance.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
BigFatTexta 01-15-07, 08:14 PM	In our latest campaign I've been playing the party rogue, which I've built around Int and Dex and had considered Arcane Trickster as a possible PrC route. Now I'd pretty much decided to give up on the AT and go straight rogue, but at the last gaming session the DM hinted at a plot arch that included a new system of casting arcane spells. Now I'm reconsidering the AT thing but I still thhink PrC looks a little rubbish. Just wondering what people's opinions or experiences are with the Trickster, is it worth sacrificing HP, BAB and skills for ranged theiving and a cheap sneak attack? I'm not convinced.
IdleAltruism 01-15-07, 08:42 PM	I personaly like the class. Making yourself invisable with ranged touch spells is always fun. It brings alot of versatility to the rogue.If you really don't like it take a look at the unseen seer from the complete mage, its probably more what you're looking for if you are worried about BA.
SephDragoon 01-15-07, 09:13 PM	The Daggerspell Mage is a much better prc if you are already using daggers and twf. I love that class, and switched to it after playing an arcane trickster in another campaign. Arcane trickster just had too many abilities that were wasted on me. Also, Daggerspell Mage is more fighting oriented (with the ability to burn spells for damage, hold touch attacks, channel touch attacks, and always keep both daggers in your hand instead of dropping to give somatic components). The only gripe anyone ever has is the first level doesn't give a boost to casting, but that is a very minor thing in my book, especially when you get to level 10 in it (a flurry of daggers all dealing sneack attack cus of greater invisibility, followed by vampiric touch, also dealing sneack attack damage is godly for 1 round).
BigFatTexta 01-15-07, 10:26 PM	Arcane trickster just had too many abilities that were wasted on me. Dude, its got like two abilities :P when you get to level 10 in it (a flurry of daggers all dealing sneack attack cus of greater invisibility, followed by vampiric touch, also dealing sneack attack damage is godly for 1 round). Ooch! yeah that sounds gross. Should probably mention I'm not really a munchkin gamer. But I don't want to be monster fodder either. Was kind of wondering if people had any experience's outside of combat that make it a good class to play. Seems to me to be a little more mage than rogue.
paladin2019 01-15-07, 10:33 PM	My only dislike of the class is the the 3rd level arcane spellcasting requirement. I would much prefer 2nd level, so the class is attainable as the character's 7th level. Otherwise, I prefer core stuff and I like it. I had to leave the campaign I was in just before I leveled into the class so I have no practical info on how well it actually plays.
JulesCARV 01-15-07, 10:44 PM	I like them. I wish they didn't have the "non-lawful" requirement: bards are already closed off to lawful characters who want a mix of skills and arcane power, and forbidding lawful arcane tricksters too seems gratuitous.
StevenO 01-16-07, 12:00 AM	I'd say Arcane Trickster is more for the thieving spellcaster than a thief who dables in magic. To me the class is great although it seems to require one of two viewpoints. The first is that of a spellcaster who has a few rogue levels (say the party needs a trap finder) and needs to develope both talents. The second is a character who devotes energy into making ranged sneak attacks with spells. The AT is NOT a melee class but with improved invisibility and a large number of spells that require a ranged touch attack it can be a sneak attack machine. Consider that you can have a 0-level spell deal over 7d6 damage with sneak attack and you should see its strengths. Depending on how much a party needs the skills of a full rogue. I'll always consider moving a non-physical rogue into a spellcaster to qualify for the AT. If you want to be a "hands on" type rogue with some magic skill then look for other PrCs but if you prefer to stay off to the side then consider the AT.
Father Dale 01-16-07, 09:06 AM	Yes, the AT is best for ranged attackers. I've actually found that the most devestating builds focus on bow users, since they can get multiple attacks in a round at range, as opposed to just using rays, which you can only get once per round. With the right combination of spells, you can get the attack very high, and since you will almost always be attacking while invisible or blinking, its usually easy to hit people.
Laucian The Black Hearted 01-16-07, 12:24 PM	I have no experience with the class but I'm currently playing a Gnome Illusionist that just picked up a level in Rogue. I definitely agree that the class seems better for thieving spellcasters than spellcasting thieves.
Jigokusabre 01-16-07, 02:15 PM	For a class that grants full caster progression, it's not bad. The only problem is that it's a bit vanilla, and really only of use if you're committing yourself to the "sneak attack with ray spells" tactic. By the time you can get AT, traps are not so much a concern that you need to be worried about Rogue-ing from a distance.
Nezkrul 01-16-07, 03:23 PM	ever since complete arcane, i've loved the AT. greater invisibility coupled with a metamagic rod of quicken, and the 4th level Orb spells can deal some pretty insane damage with sneak attack. And its really cool when you get to high levels, where you can sneak attack with an Energy Drain, and follow it up with a metamagic rod quickened Energy Drain Impromptu Sneak Attack :D , or for more fun, replace both with Meteor Swarms :D
Rickiel 01-16-07, 03:37 PM	I don't know how many times I've had to defend the position of the Arcane Trickster as a viable PrC. Though I would most certainly prefer it if it's requirement for spell-casting was 2nd level spells instead of 3rd. It's an especially great class if you have either the Arcane Strike or Razing Strike feats. It's also a great class that works well with others. Or to put it bluntly, if you work as a team it helps defining your role on said team. If you do not like it's non-lawful requirement, make it lawful while thinking up a really good reason why. The Complete Scoundrel supplement helps immensely on how any alignment can be a scoundrel of sorts! I think most people hate how it only has two unique class abilities, Ranged Legerdemain (for some it is rather limiting) and Impromptu Sneak Attack (It's devastatingly fun!). However, in the game Neverwinter Nights 2, the Ranged Legerdemain ability was replaced with Pilfer Magic. A touch-attack lesser dispel ability that if successful granted a bonus on saves for limited time. Perhaps the class would benefit greatly if the Pilfer Magic ability replaces the progression of Ranged Legerdemain while the Ranged Legerdemain ability was gained at 1st level with the ability to be used an amount of times per day equal to Arcane Trickster's Intelligence Modifier. Also think of the Ambush Feats from Dragon Magazine and Complete Scoundrel. You'll have the Sneak Attack dice to qualify for many of the feats and some of them such as Eldritch Erosion will help you immensely in overcoming your opponent's spell resistance.