Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Artifact 01-14-07, 10:41 PM	Table: The Arcane Warrior Level BAB F R W Special 1st +0 +2 +0 +0 Bonus feat 2nd +1 +3 +0 +0 Bonus feat 3rd +2 +3 +1 +1 -- 4th +3 +4 +1 +1 -- 5th +3 +4 +1 +1 Bonus feat 6th +4 +5 +2 +2 -- 7th +5 +5 +2 +2 -- 8th +6/+1 +6 +2 +2 Bonus feat 9th +6/+1 +6 +3 +3 -- 10th +7/+2 +7 +3 +3 -- 11th +8/+3 +7 +3 +3 Bonus feat 12th +9/+4 +8 +4 +4 -- 13th +9/+4 +8 +4 +4 -- 14th +10/+5 +9 +4 +4 Bonus feat 15th +11/+6/+1 +9 +5 +5 -- 16th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +5 -- 17th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +5 Bonus feat 18th +13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +6 -- 19th +14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +6 -- 20th +15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +6 Bonus feat Spells Per Day: As bard. Arcane Warrior Spells Known ————— Spells Known ————— Level 0 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 1st 4 — — — — - - 2nd 5 2* — — — - - 3rd 6 3 — — — - - 4th 6 3 2* — — - - 5th 6 4 3 — — - - 6th 6 4 3 — — - - 7th 6 4 4 2* — - - 8th 6 4 4 3 — - - 9th 6 4 4 3 — - - 10th 6 4 4 4 2* - - 11th 6 4 4 4 3 - - 12th 6 4 4 4 3 2* - 13th 6 4 4 4 4 3 - 14th 6 4 4 4 4 3 - 15th 6 4 4 4 4 4 - 16th 6 5 4 4 4 4 2* 17th 6 5 5 4 4 4 3 18th 6 5 5 5 4 4 3 19th 6 5 5 5 5 4 4 20th 6 5 5 5 5 5 4 * Provided the arcane warrior has a high enough Charisma score to have a bonus spell of this level. Arcane Warrior Alignment: Any. Hit Die: d8. Class Skills The arcane warrior’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Jump (Str), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), and Swim (Str). . Skill Points at 1st Level: (2 + Int modifier) x4. Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int modifier. Class Features All of the following are class features of the arcane warrior. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: An arcane warrior is proficient with all simple weapons, plus the longsword, rapier, sap, short sword, shortbow, and whip. Arcane warriors are proficient with light armor and shields (except tower shields). A arcane warrior can cast arcane warrior spells while wearing light armor without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance. However, like any other arcane spellcaster, an arcane warrior wearing medium or heavy armor or using a shield incurs a chance of arcane spell failure if the spell in question has a somatic component (most do). A multiclass arcane warrior still incurs the normal arcane spell failure chance for arcane spells received from other classes. Bonus Feats: At 1st level, an arcane warrior gets a bonus combat-oriented feat in addition to the feat that any 1st-level character gets and the bonus feat granted to a human character. The arcane warrior gains an additional bonus feat at 2nd level and every two fighter levels thereafter (4th, 6th, 8th, 10th, 12th, 14th, 16th, 18th, and 20th). These bonus feats must be drawn from the feats noted as fighter bonus feats. An arcane warrior must still meet all prerequisites for a bonus feat, including ability score and base attack bonus minimums. These bonus feats are in addition to the feat that a character of any class gets from advancing levels. An arcane warrior is not limited to the list of fighter bonus feats when choosing these feats. Spells: An arcane warrior casts arcane spells, which are drawn from the arcane warrior spell list. He can cast any spell he knows without preparing it ahead of time. To learn or cast a spell, an arcane warrior must have a Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against an arcane warrior’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the arcane warrior’s Charisma modifier. Like other spellcasters, an arcane warrior can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on Table: The Arcane warrior. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Charisma score. When Table: Arcane warrior Spells Known indicates that the arcane warrior gets 0 spells per day of a given spell level, he gains only the bonus spells he would be entitled to based on his Charisma score for that spell level. The arcane warrior’s selection of spells is extremely limited. An arcane warrior begins play knowing four 0-level spells of your choice. At most new arcane warrior levels, he gains one or more new spells, as indicated on Table: Arcane Warrior Spells Known. (Unlike spells per day, the number of spells an arcane warrior knows is not affected by his Charisma score; the numbers on Table: Arcane Warrior Spells Known are fixed.) Upon reaching 5th level, and at every third arcane warrior level after that (8th, 11th, and so on), an arcane warrior can choose to learn a new spell in place of one he already knows. In effect, the arcane warrior “loses” the old spell in exchange for the new one. The new spell’s level must be the same as that of the spell being exchanged, and it must be at least two levels lower than the highest-level arcane warrior spell the arcane warrior can cast. An arcane warrior may swap only a single spell at any given level, and must choose whether or not to swap the spell at the same time that he gains new spells known for the level. As noted above, an arcane warrior need not prepare his spells in advance. He can cast any spell he knows at any time, assuming he has not yet used up his allotment of spells per day for the spell’s level. Feats Battle Caster from Complete Arcane is ported for this article. [sblock=Design Notes]This is an arcane-flavored version of the psychic warrior from Expanded Psionics Handbook. It amounts to a variant version of the bard (i.e. trade bard special abilities for fighter list feats). Assuming the psychic warrior and bard are fine as designed, what do you think of such a variant class? Is it viable? Just curious. As far as an arcane warrior spell list, I can't decide if I should use the bard list or the sorcerer/wizard list. I don't see a problem with either list, but I still can't decide. Suggestions? I realize some people take their game designs pretty seriously, but this is purely for fun. Feel free to offer any advice or suggestions. I've had this on my brain for a while now, and am simply curious about wether its a valid class or not. Keep in mind: I'm aware of classes such as the duskblade, beguiler, etc. which have much the same 'flavor'; I'd prefer to focus on what's presented here. Thanks for letting me get this outta my system! :)
dunkeykong 01-15-07, 01:03 AM	I really like it. 2 things though, they should be able to choose metamagic feats as bonus feats to and maybe some other arcane flavored ones. second, I think you should go with a mostly bard spell list, with some wizard spells thrown in for damage dealing.
Artifact 01-15-07, 02:13 AM	I like the idea for bonus metamagic feats, although I'll admit I'm not sure how to implement them into the design. Any advice? My thought is to give 4 fighter bonus feats and 4 bonus metamagic at alternating intervals. Good idea or no? Also, while I'm thinking about it, an arcane warrior's weapon and armor proficiencies are equal to a bard's, rather than to a psychic warrior's, who is equal to a fighter. Does this make sense? I think giving the class full weapon and armor proficiency would be unbalancing. The Battle Caster feat (mentioned above) is recommended for this class. Anyway, I just want to discuss this variant class a bit. Its been one of very few theoretical designs that actually interests me. If I can nail down some of the specifics, I'd actually plays such a class myself. Again, I know about the duskblade, but I'm partial to this . . . don't know why, exactly. :)
Seerow 01-15-07, 02:23 AM	Well, to keep this unique from the duskblade, the spell list should focus mostly on buffs, mobility, and battlefield control. Stuff like Dimension Door, Wall Spells, Enlarge Person, just go through your books and look for things that will change the flow of battle without targetting an enemy itself. Leave the blasting spells to the Duskblade. The Arcane Warrior is the class that uses his magic to alter the battlefield to his liking, and imbues himself to a warrior beyond the power of most ordinary Fighters. I will say this. Either give him full BAB, or up to 6th level spells. You need one or the other. You even mentioned balancing against the Duskblade Psiwar and Bard. Psiwar and Bard have medium BAB and 6th level spells/powers. Duskblade has Full BAB and 5th level spells. In this area your class is too weak. Right now, as a Gish, you're trading 5 levels spells and a few points for a handful of feats. Not a good trade. A decent gish will pull off BAB+18 and 9th level spells. Having bonus feats throughout the progression helps to ease the pain, as most Gishes are feat strapped, especially after qualifying for all their classes. But you do need to compete with the other base classes. I'll also note you gave a table for spells known, nothing for spells per day. You may want to fix that. A spell list would be nice. Also, he needs the ability to cast spells while in armor. Ignore failure chance, cast in light armor (upgradable through feats) whatever. He needs it. The ability to cast with a weapon in hand would be preferrable as well, and some form of quickened casting (quickened buffs are a MAJOR thing for any Gish. And you don't have high enough spell levels to quicken anything more than a cantrip) though that might make it too similar to the Duskblade for your liking.
Artifact 01-15-07, 02:41 AM	Well, to keep this unique from the duskblade, the spell list should focus mostly on buffs, mobility, and battlefield control. Stuff like Dimension Door, Wall Spells, Enlarge Person, just go through your books and look for things that will change the flow of battle without targetting an enemy itself. Leave the blasting spells to the Duskblade. The Arcane Warrior is the class that uses his magic to alter the battlefield to his liking, and imbues himself to a warrior beyond the power of most ordinary Fighters. That's my thinking also. I need to go through the lists and select what spells I think will work for such a class. I will say this. Either give him full BAB, or up to 6th level spells. You need one or the other. You even mentioned balancing against the Duskblade Psiwar and Bard. Psiwar and Bard have medium BAB and 6th level spells/powers. Duskblade has Full BAB and 5th level spells. In this area your class is too weak Right now, as a Gish, you're trading 5 levels spells and a few points for a handful of feats. Not a good trade. A decent gish will pull off BAB+18 and 9th level spells. Having bonus feats throughout the progression helps to ease the pain, as most Gishes are feat strapped, especially after qualifying for all their classes. But you do need to compete with the other base classes. I'll also note you gave a table for spells known, nothing for spells per day. You may want to fix that. A spell list would be nice. Also, he needs the ability to cast spells while in armor. Ignore failure chance, cast in light armor (upgradable through feats) whatever. He needs it. The ability to cast with a weapon in hand would be preferrable as well, and some form of quickened casting (quickened buffs are a MAJOR thing for any Gish. And you don't have high enough spell levels to quicken anything more than a cantrip) though that might make it too similar to the Duskblade for your liking. The class has the same "Spells Per Day" as a bard. I couldn't get that part to format, so I added below the "Spells Known" list. If you blink, you'll prolly miss it ;). Sorry 'bout that! Like a bard, the arcane warrior ignores chaces for arcane spell failure. Its listed in the weapon and armor proficiencies. This can be upgraded through the Battle Caster feat. As far as an ability to quicken spells or cast one handed, I agree those would be useful. However, I'd like to balance it as close as possible to the psychic warrior (who doesn't have such abilities). I am of course, assuming that psionics are equivilant in power to arcane magic. In other words, there may be a reason that the psywar doesn't have such abilities, while the arcane warrior needs them. Its entirely possible I've overlooked something. Thanks for your input Seerow; very helpful and very appreciated!
Seerow 01-15-07, 10:26 AM	1) So you gave him Bard Spells per Day progression, meaning up to 6th level spells per day... but only 4th level spells known? How does that work? 2) Okay, that's good. I was looking for something of the sort under spellcasting, or as a separate ability, not under armor proficiencies. 3) The reason this class would need those abilities and Psiwar doesn't, is because Psionics innately has no somatic components. Also, due to the way Psionics augments, since the Psiwar has full Manifester level, he IS able to quicken his own powers readily. Since his most expensive power costs 11 PP unaugmented, and he can manifest up to 20 PP at once, this allows him to quicken most of his stuff as needed. Indeed, many of the Psiwar buffs have an innate augment for a quicken-esque ability. Now here's the catch. Psionics are balanced to do stuff like that. The Psiwar doesn't really get enough PP to be doing that sort of thing a lot. The trick is to figure out some way to let the Arcane Equivalent use quickened buffs while still showing some form of resource depletion.
mkill 01-15-07, 12:26 PM	Mhh mhh. There is already the fighter/wizard (or rather any melee class/any full caster), the fighter/warmage, the hexblade, the battlesorcerer and the duskblade, plus a pile of prestige classes, such as Spellsword, Bladesinger, Abjurant Champion, Eldritch Knight just to name a few. There is also the possibility to add arcane spells to the paladin or ranger list with a feat. Where does your class fit in the list? How does it set itself apart from a simple fighter/sorcerer multiclass, which ends up with more or less the same abilities like your arcane warrior? The hexblade has curses. The duskblade can channel. What can your class do? What is special about it?
Seerow 01-15-07, 12:31 PM	Well, what sets the Psiwar apart from the Psion/Ranger/Slayer? 1) The Psiwar has full manifester level, even though he has lower level powers 2) The Psiwar has unique powerful buffs that the other can't get 3) The Psiwar has feats sprinkled through his progression to compliment his abilities. Looking at that, this class has #3 already, just needs to work on #1 and #2
Artifact 01-16-07, 01:02 AM	1) So you gave him Bard Spells per Day progression, meaning up to 6th level spells per day... but only 4th level spells known? How does that work? Whoops! That was supposed to be a cut and paste of the bard's spells known table. I didn't realize it was missing 5th and 6th level spells. I'll fix it :) 2) Okay, that's good. I was looking for something of the sort under spellcasting, or as a separate ability, not under armor proficiencies. 3) The reason this class would need those abilities and Psiwar doesn't, is because Psionics innately has no somatic components. Also, due to the way Psionics augments, since the Psiwar has full Manifester level, he IS able to quicken his own powers readily. Since his most expensive power costs 11 PP unaugmented, and he can manifest up to 20 PP at once, this allows him to quicken most of his stuff as needed. Indeed, many of the Psiwar buffs have an innate augment for a quicken-esque ability. Now here's the catch. Psionics are balanced to do stuff like that. The Psiwar doesn't really get enough PP to be doing that sort of thing a lot. The trick is to figure out some way to let the Arcane Equivalent use quickened buffs while still showing some form of resource depletion. You definately have an eye for game design which I lack. I was thinking this arcane warrior could be a straight up arcane flavored psyhic warrior --clearly this isn't the case. Kinda blows holes in my design ;), but I really appreciate your insight here. I agree with your thinking, now that's it been brought to my attention. I still think the idea is solid enough; that is, if I can implement the ideas you've suggested here. Again, thanks for the insight; just the sort of thing I was hoping for.