Arcane-warrior options [Archive] - Wizards Community

Arcane-warrior options [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
BreegJac17
08-03-07, 06:11 PM Would it be better to just be a duskblade, or is it better if you start out as a wizard/sorcerer or a fighter and go into spellsword or eldritch knight???

Any opinions will be appreciated.
The_Shaman
08-03-07, 06:38 PM In terms of pure magical power, a Fighter/wizard/Abjurant Champion/EK would probably be better, sure. Duskblades have some good channelling options and afaik are good in damage-dealing, but a wizard gish might have more options at their disposal. Does the duskblaed get Polymorph, btw?

BTW, you do not have to be a wizard or sorcerer for a gish. Bard-Sublime Chord gishes are supposed to be pretty mean, too... I would think that bard 8/fighter 1/EK1/SChord 2/EK 8 could be quite powerful, especially with something like snowflake wardance or the like. BTW, the militia feat can give you proficiency in all martial weapons without the loss of a caster level, if you want to go EK as quickly as possible.I have not heard much of beguiler gishes, but ironically their casting in light armor might make them a very good foundation for gish-building. Dread Necros and battle sorcerers might be good, too.

As regards the spellsword... I guess it could work, but do not get more than 3 levels. You already have a hard time qualifying for the prerequisites without losing a caster level for that heavy armor proficiency (Dragon Slayer from Draconomicon gains it for free, btw).
lion93
08-03-07, 06:49 PM I still like the Fighter/Wizard with all Verbal and Stilled spells as my base gish build. True Strike is V.

You can do it as a Fighter/Sorcerer too, if you want to cast True Strike all day. Take a look at the spells in the Player's Handbook and see if you can live without Somatic spells. Still Spell is good for anything else you can't live without.

Add plate mail and a weapon of your choice and voila!
StalkerEntreri
08-03-07, 07:13 PM I would say for a less complicated build go straight Duskblade, you get the channeling options, full BAB and some decent spells, and I'm fairly certain you can get into the Dragon Dispicle prestige class which gives more spells and physical abilities which would help your non-casting combat
BreegJac17
08-03-07, 09:33 PM I don't have access to the book with abjurant champion in it, so i need to know what is better, Spellsword or eldritch Knight?

And what should i take first, Fighter or Wiz/Sorc?? Or would it be superior to be a duskblade?
not Yoda
08-03-07, 10:59 PM Barbarian 2/ Wizard 18 Unless you want a dash of Archmage.

First 2 levels Barbarian or Fighter or Warblade. Doesn't much matter. Diffrent strokes so to speak.

3rd level feat Sudden Metamagic Still Spell

At low level you get to have the fun of being the beater of Ass. High HP decent AC Fight all day. By third you're actually starting to become a gish. Still more HP than a 6th level mage Sudden Still allows you to throw most of your spells while wearing the best armor you can afford. Sad thing is the Mage has been doing this his whole career and he's only got three more spells than you. Color Spray is your friend. Especially if you are still the frontline guy. At high level you still get all the game breaking spells.Just one level after the Sorc except you customize your spell list to your style.

At high level You get to wear a sword like Gandalf you move 40feet per round. Also at this level spells are really the bread and butter of play. Disintigrate, fly, true seeing, your spellcasting is in the same ballpark as the best in your party. BAB is less important multiple attacks are also becoming increasingly difficult not only to land but opprtunity to execute.

I'm not saying you shouldn't try to build a hybrid I'm just saying you could literally have played every type at their most fun. melee'ers at low level, Gish at mid, and pure caster at high level. With at dirt simple build. That is very flexible.
Arkeas
08-03-07, 11:30 PM Most people suggest EK with a 1 level dip into SS so that you can have 10% ignore arcane spell failure chance. Then you can wear feycraft mithral full plate or twilight mithral full plate (PHB2 or DMG2, I believe) and have no arcane spell failure chance. EK is really more, "I'm a mage with a good BAB" and SS is, "I'm a fighter that can cast spells."

Depending on the world you are playing in, you should look into the Knight Phantom prestige class (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050706a&page=4) from Eberron or the Militia background feat from Faerun. Militia makes you proficient with all martial weapons so you do not have to take a level in fighter in order to take EK (but doesn't help with SS), and Knight Phantom is similar to EK but gives some cool abilities and a better hit die.

I would recommend Abjurant Champion, but if you do not have the book, you can make a good build without it.
LoneFlame
08-03-07, 11:44 PM To bring out one of my own tricks....

Metamagic Specialist(PHP 2) Stalwart(Complete Mage) Battle Sorcerer(Unearthed Arcana), prestiged into Abjurant Champion(Complete Mage) to get some more class features and a little more BAB. You don't get the channeling, but... You'll have decent hit points, decent BAB, the ability to cast in light armor, some decent class features, a few martial weapon proficiencies, and a 9th lv spell.
BreegJac17
08-04-07, 12:13 AM What would be better to start out as though? A previous post said wizard, but i want more opinions.
JulesCARV
08-04-07, 12:49 AM I would think that bard 8/fighter 1/EK1/SChord 2/EK 8 could be quite powerful.

Just a quick, nitpicking note -- this build doesn't really work as written. Well, it's legal, but kinda weak, because the eldritch knight advancement only advances bard spellcasting. A quick read of the Eldritch Knight's "spells per day" feature on DMG 188 reveals that eldritch knights can only advance the spellcasting of classes that they had before coming eldritch knights.

On the other hand, it does work with the knight phantom, abjurant champion, and some other classes.
The_Shaman
08-04-07, 06:59 PM Well, that is a bit dubious. Do EKs advance the spellcasting they had before they entered the PrC at all, or before they began their own spellcasting progression? In the first case, I suppose you should wait and hence lose 1 SChord level. Pity...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
BreegJac17 08-03-07, 06:11 PM	Would it be better to just be a duskblade, or is it better if you start out as a wizard/sorcerer or a fighter and go into spellsword or eldritch knight??? Any opinions will be appreciated.
The_Shaman 08-03-07, 06:38 PM	In terms of pure magical power, a Fighter/wizard/Abjurant Champion/EK would probably be better, sure. Duskblades have some good channelling options and afaik are good in damage-dealing, but a wizard gish might have more options at their disposal. Does the duskblaed get Polymorph, btw? BTW, you do not have to be a wizard or sorcerer for a gish. Bard-Sublime Chord gishes are supposed to be pretty mean, too... I would think that bard 8/fighter 1/EK1/SChord 2/EK 8 could be quite powerful, especially with something like snowflake wardance or the like. BTW, the militia feat can give you proficiency in all martial weapons without the loss of a caster level, if you want to go EK as quickly as possible.I have not heard much of beguiler gishes, but ironically their casting in light armor might make them a very good foundation for gish-building. Dread Necros and battle sorcerers might be good, too. As regards the spellsword... I guess it could work, but do not get more than 3 levels. You already have a hard time qualifying for the prerequisites without losing a caster level for that heavy armor proficiency (Dragon Slayer from Draconomicon gains it for free, btw).
lion93 08-03-07, 06:49 PM	I still like the Fighter/Wizard with all Verbal and Stilled spells as my base gish build. True Strike is V. You can do it as a Fighter/Sorcerer too, if you want to cast True Strike all day. Take a look at the spells in the Player's Handbook and see if you can live without Somatic spells. Still Spell is good for anything else you can't live without. Add plate mail and a weapon of your choice and voila!
StalkerEntreri 08-03-07, 07:13 PM	I would say for a less complicated build go straight Duskblade, you get the channeling options, full BAB and some decent spells, and I'm fairly certain you can get into the Dragon Dispicle prestige class which gives more spells and physical abilities which would help your non-casting combat
BreegJac17 08-03-07, 09:33 PM	I don't have access to the book with abjurant champion in it, so i need to know what is better, Spellsword or eldritch Knight? And what should i take first, Fighter or Wiz/Sorc?? Or would it be superior to be a duskblade?
not Yoda 08-03-07, 10:59 PM	Barbarian 2/ Wizard 18 Unless you want a dash of Archmage. First 2 levels Barbarian or Fighter or Warblade. Doesn't much matter. Diffrent strokes so to speak. 3rd level feat Sudden Metamagic Still Spell At low level you get to have the fun of being the beater of Ass. High HP decent AC Fight all day. By third you're actually starting to become a gish. Still more HP than a 6th level mage Sudden Still allows you to throw most of your spells while wearing the best armor you can afford. Sad thing is the Mage has been doing this his whole career and he's only got three more spells than you. Color Spray is your friend. Especially if you are still the frontline guy. At high level you still get all the game breaking spells.Just one level after the Sorc except you customize your spell list to your style. At high level You get to wear a sword like Gandalf you move 40feet per round. Also at this level spells are really the bread and butter of play. Disintigrate, fly, true seeing, your spellcasting is in the same ballpark as the best in your party. BAB is less important multiple attacks are also becoming increasingly difficult not only to land but opprtunity to execute. I'm not saying you shouldn't try to build a hybrid I'm just saying you could literally have played every type at their most fun. melee'ers at low level, Gish at mid, and pure caster at high level. With at dirt simple build. That is very flexible.
Arkeas 08-03-07, 11:30 PM	Most people suggest EK with a 1 level dip into SS so that you can have 10% ignore arcane spell failure chance. Then you can wear feycraft mithral full plate or twilight mithral full plate (PHB2 or DMG2, I believe) and have no arcane spell failure chance. EK is really more, "I'm a mage with a good BAB" and SS is, "I'm a fighter that can cast spells." Depending on the world you are playing in, you should look into the Knight Phantom prestige class (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050706a&page=4) from Eberron or the Militia background feat from Faerun. Militia makes you proficient with all martial weapons so you do not have to take a level in fighter in order to take EK (but doesn't help with SS), and Knight Phantom is similar to EK but gives some cool abilities and a better hit die. I would recommend Abjurant Champion, but if you do not have the book, you can make a good build without it.
LoneFlame 08-03-07, 11:44 PM	To bring out one of my own tricks.... Metamagic Specialist(PHP 2) Stalwart(Complete Mage) Battle Sorcerer(Unearthed Arcana), prestiged into Abjurant Champion(Complete Mage) to get some more class features and a little more BAB. You don't get the channeling, but... You'll have decent hit points, decent BAB, the ability to cast in light armor, some decent class features, a few martial weapon proficiencies, and a 9th lv spell.
BreegJac17 08-04-07, 12:13 AM	What would be better to start out as though? A previous post said wizard, but i want more opinions.
JulesCARV 08-04-07, 12:49 AM	I would think that bard 8/fighter 1/EK1/SChord 2/EK 8 could be quite powerful. Just a quick, nitpicking note -- this build doesn't really work as written. Well, it's legal, but kinda weak, because the eldritch knight advancement only advances bard spellcasting. A quick read of the Eldritch Knight's "spells per day" feature on DMG 188 reveals that eldritch knights can only advance the spellcasting of classes that they had before coming eldritch knights. On the other hand, it does work with the knight phantom, abjurant champion, and some other classes.
The_Shaman 08-04-07, 06:59 PM	Well, that is a bit dubious. Do EKs advance the spellcasting they had before they entered the PrC at all, or before they began their own spellcasting progression? In the first case, I suppose you should wait and hence lose 1 SChord level. Pity...