Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Metabubbles 08-30-05, 11:15 AM	Background: 13th lvl Sorc. I currently meet all req's for qualifying for archmage EXCEPT; ability to cast 7th lvl spells. Upon next lvl, 14th, I will meet that requirement, SO, do I go straight to ArchMage upon 14th lvl, or do I have to wait til 15th lvl??? Also I wish to obtain the Mastery of Counterspelling and it costs one 7th lvl spell spot. As a 14th lvl archmage, I only get 1 7th lvl spell, but 3 times a day, does the spell spot mean I can only cast 7th lvl spells 2x a day? Or does it mean I have 'no' 7th lvl spells (seems not right to me)? Thanks!
epyondrowhunter 08-30-05, 11:41 AM	you have to wait until 15 level to take the archmage class because you havent met the requirments until 14th level. And a spell slot is the abiltiy to cast a spell a number of times perday, so you just lose one time perday to cast a spell. So before you could cast 3 seventh level spells, now you can only cast 2 spells per day.
Faragon 08-30-05, 11:46 AM	And to answer your other question, that leaves you with 2 level7 spellslots/day.
Metabubbles 08-30-05, 02:18 PM	Yea, I guess Wizard is better, that one level would have been HUGE. Oh well, there has to be some disadvantage to sorcerer. Thanks for the information.
Nate Jones 08-30-05, 03:13 PM	I think the fact that sorcerers get a great deal more spell slots than wizards more than makes up for that fact in the eyes of the archmage.
Metabubbles 08-31-05, 04:34 PM	Click here, go to page 88 (http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/DnD3.5Index-Classes-Prestige.pdf) As you can see, it clearly states at 14th lvl the sorcerer could qualify for archmage. No offense, but who should I believe? Thanks again!
Arravis 08-31-05, 04:47 PM	Not them, especially since it's not from WotC. I recommend looking over the Prestige Class section in the DMG. The rules as written are crystal clear on this issue: "Unlike the basic classes, characters must meet Requirements before they can take their first level of a prestige class. The rules for level advancement apply to this system, meaning the first step of advancement is always choosing a class. If a character does not meet the Requirements for a prestige class before that first step, that character cannot take the first level of that prestige class."
Puca 08-31-05, 04:55 PM	Yes, a 14th level sorcerer can, at next level, advance to archmage. You cant simultaneously be a 14th level sorcerer and a 13th level sorcerer and a first level arch mage. Note: Your same document says the wizard qualifies at 13th. Look at it this way: The first thing you do when you level up is select a class to take a level in. Before you take a level in a class, you dont have any of that classs abilities. Since you dont have any 14th-level abilities until you pick a class, you dont have any 7th level spells. Since you dont have any 7th level spells, you dont qualify for archmage and cant take a level in that prestige class.
Metabubbles 08-31-05, 04:59 PM	I understand, just hopeing for a loop, LOL. :weep: thanks, Chad.
Puca 08-31-05, 05:07 PM	That the thing with so many PrCs, the wizard gets there first, like he does with spells. But, the sorcerer, like someone already mentioned, is able to give up slots for archmage abilities far less painfully, having more spell slots than his scholarly counterpart.
solbergb 08-31-05, 06:02 PM	No there is no loophole. The first thing you pick on leveling is class. That means you can't yet cast L7 spells when you are choosing the class. The class is what gives you the advancement to L14 caster. Yes, a wiz gets there a level earlier. But if you've made it to L13 as a sorcerer you've got to be pretty used to that by then. On the plus side, level 13 is a lousy exit level...all 3 of your saves and your BAB don't increase. Kind of like level 5 but without the wiz bonus feat to soften the blow. L14 at least gives you the will save and BAB.
StevenO 08-31-05, 07:39 PM	Having to take level sor14 before qualifying for Archmage isn't the end of the world. It may be nice to get that first High Arcana bonus but instead you get +1 Attack and Will. Fortunately the Sorcerer's large number of spells per day will make all the High Arcana costs more managable the gain in spell versitility doesn't come at the expense of fewer spell available to use it on. I've alway thought that most Prime (number that is) levels are bad times to get out of a class. Taking one more level always gets you an increased attack and save which are important in the long run.
Endarire 08-31-05, 07:58 PM	Why not Sor6/PrC(s)8/AcmX? -EE
slade_caizer 08-31-05, 08:36 PM	Click here, go to page 88 (http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/DnD3.5Index-Classes-Prestige.pdf) As you can see, it clearly states at 14th lvl the sorcerer could qualify for archmage. No offense, but who should I believe? Thanks again! A 14th level sorcerer does qualify. Which means that at level 15 you can take your 1st level of Archmage. So far no one has contradicted, so the answer to your question is: everyone.
Metabubbles 08-31-05, 10:45 PM	Why not Sor6/PrC(s)8/AcmX? -EE Not exactly sure what AcmX is? Sorry. But to answer the question, when I first started I really had no idea how to min/max (not in the bad sense...). So I thought why not try Sorc straight (ok I did think of Dragon Discple but losing spell casting levels???). So once I found Arch mage, I steered my character towards it, then I found Incanatrix, which would have been perfect! Oh well. Still a lot of fun to play (especially if my group thinks I am the most powerful member in the party!!!) Wow, I guess you are right, Sorc qualifies for Archmage @ 14th lvl, not I can be archmage @ 14th lvl, duh, wished I could read! Thanks everybody for the posts! Later days dudes...
Puca 09-01-05, 10:36 AM	Why not Sor6/PrC(s)8/AcmX? AcmX means Archmage to whatever level you can/want to go. For example, Acm5 would be an 5 levels of Archmage. His suggstion was something like taking 6 levels of sorcerer, then moving into another PrC, like Mage of the Arcane Order. Stay with that until level 14 (sor6/MAO8) then take Archmage until level 19. Archmage works well with Initiate of the Seven-Fold Veil. As part of its requirements, you need to take Spell Focus (Abjuration) and Skill Focus (Spellcraft) which, sucky as they are, give you two out of the three feat requirements for Archmage. So, you could easily be a Sor9/ISV7/Acm4 at level 20, so powerful, but youre going to really be hurting at 8th and 9th when 3 of 4 feats are essentially useless and both your 4th-level spells-known are abjurations.
lancean 09-01-05, 11:39 AM	So, you could easily be a Sor9/ISV7/Acm4 at level 20, so powerful, but youre going to really be hurting at 8th and 9th when 3 of 4 feats are essentially useless and both your 4th-level spells-known are abjurations. Hurting? No. your 3rd level spells are giving you most of your offensive punch until you pick up 5th level spells. And taking abjurations like Mass Resist Elements, Lesser Globe of Invulnerability, and Stoneskin... this saves your arse and the arses of your friends! How could you be hurting with those spells? Besides, you can always swap them out at higher levels.
Puca 09-01-05, 11:55 AM	As long as you maintain a minimum of 2 at 4th level or greater. Hurting - Stoneskin is nice, but the materials cost? Ouch. And look at the standards you have to let go: Evards Tentacles, Dimension Door, Wall of Fire, Enervation, all the CA Orb spells. Swapping out can take time and has to be planned carefully for this guy too. It would be nice to use those fourth-level slots for metamagiced spells, but you needed to devote your feats to not only Spell Focus (Abjuration) but Greater Spell Focus (Abjuration.) +2 to the DC of spells from a school where 9 of 10 spells wont ever require a save. Wicked power, but it hurts getting there.