Archer Base (Rogue var.) peach please [Archive] - Wizards Community

Archer Base (Rogue var.) peach please [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Diideral
07-26-06, 09:25 PM Level

1 Sneak attack 1d6, point blank shot
2 exotic weapon proficiency bow or arrow (use for melee)
3 archer bonus feat, base range increment +10
4 Dead aim
5 archer bonus feat
6 base range increment +20
7 sneak attack 2d6
8 marksman
9 archer bonus feat, base range increment +30
10 special ability
11 archer bonus feat
12 base range increment +40
13 sneak attack 3d6, special ability
14
15 archer bonus feat, base range increment +50
16 special ability
17 archer bonus feat
18 base range increment +60
19 sneak attack 4d6, special ability

exotic weapon profiency : treats either bow or arrow (you must pick one) as melee weapon effectively not having to change weapons if melee combat comes to you

Archer bonus feats: every feat relating to archery and: weapon focus, weapon specialisation, improved critical, improved initiative, dodge, mobility, mounted combat, hawk’s vision

Dead aim: If you take a full round action to line up your shot, you get a +2 circumstance bonus on your next attack. You cannot move (even a 5 foot step) during this round and you lose this bonus entirely if you are jostled or attacked. Also, if you can deal sneak attack damage at a range, you may do so even if this attack is outside the normal range limit.

Marksman : You may spend a full round action aiming a ranged weapon at a target that is not performing a double move or a run. On the next round you may make a single attack as a full round action. This attack counts as a "coup de grace" as long as some vital part of the target is visible.

Special ability: your pick: crippling strike ( like rogue), archer spell(1)(2)(+), every bow is mighty( str adapted to archer), bonus feats

Archer spells : arrow mind, guided shot, hawkeye, sniper’s shot, cat’s grace, haste, true strike, magic weapon, invisibiltiy, bull’s strenght, darkvision
spells are spell-like abilities 1/day, pick one spell, take the special ability twice eand it's either a new spell or the same twice a day

details to be worked out for exotic weapon damage, att/dam and all.

Dead Aim and Marksman are feats found on the complete lists from crystalkeep.com, like them lots so...
LordPendragon
07-26-06, 09:37 PM Marksman is wildly powerful...

Let's think about it... 8th level character, so 6 BAB (I'm assuming that, since it's not listed but you said it's a Rogue variant). That doesn't matter, though, since coups de grace never miss. So... take one turn lining it up... then another turn firing... and deal 3D8 + 18 (assuming a +2 Composite Longbow (+2 Str), and Weapon Spec, since it's apparently in the bonus feat list). That's a minimum of 21, average of 31.5... you're lucky... not enough to one-shot a Tarrasque. But still needs to be toned down. Maybe remove the massive aiming time and just say "Any time you make a critical hit on a sneak attack with a ranged weapon, the target must make a Fort save against DC = 10 + damage dealt".

Other than that, it looks quite balanced... Not sure if I'd play it, though... I tend to prefer full BAB for archers, since they need accuracy more than anything else.

Also, am I to assume this is a 19 level base class for some unknown reason??
BlaineTog
07-26-06, 09:40 PM This is a rogue with combat feats, and maybe a few levels in fighter, not it's own seperate class.
Diideral
07-26-06, 10:21 PM This is a rogue with combat feats, and maybe a few levels in fighter, not it's own seperate class.

That would be why it's a rogue variant... ;)
I'm going to use it as an archer base class ...but it is heavily based on the rogue...
Diideral
07-26-06, 10:35 PM ... Maybe remove the massive aiming time and just say "Any time you make a critical hit on a sneak attack with a ranged weapon, the target must make a Fort save against DC = 10 + damage dealt".

I used the feat marksman without any tampering and they actually put it at BAB 5 but I agree, the math makes it over powerful... Your solution looks good but I like the "one arrow your down" thing without having to pray for the dice to roll right...What if the target shouldn't move for the entire aiming time? (This is actually an idea by Sunrider on an other thread...) or the dc check to be only damage...

...Other than that, it looks quite balanced... Not sure if I'd play it, though... I tend to prefer full BAB for archers, since they need accuracy more than anything else

I'm actually building this for 2 uses...future because I like archers lots and right now I,ve got a gestalt game coming so fighter/archer makes a devilish archer... :D

Also, am I to assume this is a 19 level base class for some unknown reason??

same as the rogue actually....nothing special going on at level 20....kept it the same

thanks !!!
Seerow
07-26-06, 11:03 PM You like the one shot kill? Well in the Fighter Thread we recently wrote up some feats for the sniper. Maybe some of these might help you inspirationwise. Id recommend taking out the spells and the CDG ability.

Sniper's Shot
Requirements: BAB+4, Far Shot, Dex15
Effect: For every 3 points of BAB you have, you may ignore one point of your opponents armor bonus to AC if they are unaware of your presence. If you fire a single arrow as a full round action, you may double this amount.

Called Shot
Requirements: Dex13
Effect: You can take a penalty to hit up to your BAB on your attack roll, you gain a bonus to damage on all attacks equal to 2 times the penalty taken.
Alternatively, if you have BAB+9 or more, you can use this as a full round action (which may be used with Sniper's Shot) to take a -10 penalty to hit to fire a single shot and double your weapon's threat range, this stacks with the Improved Critical Feat.

True Shot
Requirements: BAB+8, Sniper's Shot, Far Shot
Effect: You may ignore any penalties to ranged attacks due to wind and storms. You treat the winds as if they were one category less for every 4 points of BAB you possess.

Mage Sniper
Requirements: BAB+12, Sniper's Shot
Effect: When making a ranged attack through any magical effect that would completely prevent you from hitting your target, you may instead treat that effect as improved cover for your target; treat this AC bonus as a "magical cover" bonus. Multiple magical cover boni stack with eachother. Note that this feat does not affect barriers that are physical in nature, even those summoned by magic, like a Wall of Stone.

Phase Arrow
Requirements: BAB+14, Mystic Training, True Shot, Mage Sniper
Effect: Anytime you at a target known to her within range, and the arrow travels to the target in a straight path, passing through any nonmagical barrier or wall in its way. (Any magical barrier stops the arrow.) This ability negates cover, concealment, and even armor modifiers, but otherwise the attack is rolled normally.

Hunter's Eye
Requirements: Sniper's Shot, BAB+6
Effect: You only take a -1 penalty for each range increment rather than a -2.
If you have a BAB of +11 or more, you may fire an arrow twice as many range increments out. (20 maximum rather than 10)
You gain a +5 bonus to spot checks.

Focused Shot
Requirements: Hunter's Eye, BAB+13
Effect: If you spend a full round action firing an arrow, you may ignore any penalties for range. This may be used in conjunction with any other feats that require you to fire only a single arrow.

Phase Arrow
Requirements: BAB+14, True Shot, Mage Sniper
Effect: Anytime you fire a single arrow at a target known to you within range, and the arrow travels to the target in a straight path, passing through any nonmagical barrier or wall in its way. (Any magical barrier stops the arrow.) This ability negates cover, concealment, and even armor modifiers, but otherwise the attack is rolled normally.
Diideral
07-26-06, 11:20 PM Thanks Seerow

some of the feats you've posted i've seen with other names on the complete feats list on crystalkeep...
the spells i put in there for the effect of the spell not jsut any spell; because if you you look at crippling strike, it could easily be made into a spell like arrow mind or exacting shot... they also add more choices than simply more feats...albeit I could make your list of feats (some) available as special abilities ...food for thought!!

thanks!!
LordPendragon
07-26-06, 11:21 PM I used the feat marksman without any tampering and they actually put it at BAB 5Well if it was already a feat by itself then go ahead and abuse it... If WotC decides to give you material like that, it's jsut begging to be broken.

The question at that point becomes, "if it's already a feat, why waste a class feature gaining it??" However, if you really want it as a class feature, I'd say errata it to only work on flat-footed opponents, like Swift Strike from the Complete Adventurer's Ninja.

Since this is a Rogue variant, you would do well to put in an ability that reduces Hide penalties from sniping. It would match the flavour very well.
Diideral
07-26-06, 11:40 PM It's a feat alright but not by wotc...its the deadlands setting by AEG...woops I liked the idea but couldn't make myself use it as a feat...I like the flat-footed makes one spend feats on initative to use it better...
For the hide part...I always tought a silenced bow,skill focus and en elven cloak could get you a long way But what would you suggest and most importantly...where to put it!?
LordPendragon
07-26-06, 11:48 PM If you were deleting Marksman in favour of simply taking the feat, I'd say put it at 4th level. Failing that, 14th level is open, as is 20th.

When sniping from a hiding spot, you can make a single attack as a standard action, and then hide again as a move action, but you take a -20 penalty to your Hide check for rushing.

So yeah, a silent bow and Skill Focus will help, but reducing the sniping penalty will allow you to get away with making your character a lot better at sniping without making him "OMQ sO h4xx0rz3d" at hiding in general.
Diideral
07-27-06, 12:07 AM ... making him "OMQ sO h4xx0rz3d" at hiding in general

could you translate this part?

What if I transformed marksman so that instead of a CDG he gets something like a +3 to threat range...and modified dead aim to be BAB/2 casewith a +5 circumstance to hiding...what do you think?
Seerow
07-27-06, 12:16 AM could you translate this part?

What if I transformed marksman so that instead of a CDG he gets something like a +3 to threat range...and modified dead aim to be BAB/2 casewith a +5 circumstance to hiding...what do you think?

He means make it so you're better at hiding when sniping, rather than awesome at hiding in general.
Diideral
07-27-06, 12:22 AM Merci!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Diideral 07-26-06, 09:25 PM	Level 1 Sneak attack 1d6, point blank shot 2 exotic weapon proficiency bow or arrow (use for melee) 3 archer bonus feat, base range increment +10 4 Dead aim 5 archer bonus feat 6 base range increment +20 7 sneak attack 2d6 8 marksman 9 archer bonus feat, base range increment +30 10 special ability 11 archer bonus feat 12 base range increment +40 13 sneak attack 3d6, special ability 14 15 archer bonus feat, base range increment +50 16 special ability 17 archer bonus feat 18 base range increment +60 19 sneak attack 4d6, special ability exotic weapon profiency : treats either bow or arrow (you must pick one) as melee weapon effectively not having to change weapons if melee combat comes to you Archer bonus feats: every feat relating to archery and: weapon focus, weapon specialisation, improved critical, improved initiative, dodge, mobility, mounted combat, hawk’s vision Dead aim: If you take a full round action to line up your shot, you get a +2 circumstance bonus on your next attack. You cannot move (even a 5 foot step) during this round and you lose this bonus entirely if you are jostled or attacked. Also, if you can deal sneak attack damage at a range, you may do so even if this attack is outside the normal range limit. Marksman : You may spend a full round action aiming a ranged weapon at a target that is not performing a double move or a run. On the next round you may make a single attack as a full round action. This attack counts as a "coup de grace" as long as some vital part of the target is visible. Special ability: your pick: crippling strike ( like rogue), archer spell(1)(2)(+), every bow is mighty( str adapted to archer), bonus feats Archer spells : arrow mind, guided shot, hawkeye, sniper’s shot, cat’s grace, haste, true strike, magic weapon, invisibiltiy, bull’s strenght, darkvision spells are spell-like abilities 1/day, pick one spell, take the special ability twice eand it's either a new spell or the same twice a day details to be worked out for exotic weapon damage, att/dam and all. Dead Aim and Marksman are feats found on the complete lists from crystalkeep.com, like them lots so...
LordPendragon 07-26-06, 09:37 PM	Marksman is wildly powerful... Let's think about it... 8th level character, so 6 BAB (I'm assuming that, since it's not listed but you said it's a Rogue variant). That doesn't matter, though, since coups de grace never miss. So... take one turn lining it up... then another turn firing... and deal 3D8 + 18 (assuming a +2 Composite Longbow (+2 Str), and Weapon Spec, since it's apparently in the bonus feat list). That's a minimum of 21, average of 31.5... you're lucky... not enough to one-shot a Tarrasque. But still needs to be toned down. Maybe remove the massive aiming time and just say "Any time you make a critical hit on a sneak attack with a ranged weapon, the target must make a Fort save against DC = 10 + damage dealt". Other than that, it looks quite balanced... Not sure if I'd play it, though... I tend to prefer full BAB for archers, since they need accuracy more than anything else. Also, am I to assume this is a 19 level base class for some unknown reason??
BlaineTog 07-26-06, 09:40 PM	This is a rogue with combat feats, and maybe a few levels in fighter, not it's own seperate class.
Diideral 07-26-06, 10:21 PM	This is a rogue with combat feats, and maybe a few levels in fighter, not it's own seperate class. That would be why it's a rogue variant... ;) I'm going to use it as an archer base class ...but it is heavily based on the rogue...
Diideral 07-26-06, 10:35 PM	... Maybe remove the massive aiming time and just say "Any time you make a critical hit on a sneak attack with a ranged weapon, the target must make a Fort save against DC = 10 + damage dealt". I used the feat marksman without any tampering and they actually put it at BAB 5 but I agree, the math makes it over powerful... Your solution looks good but I like the "one arrow your down" thing without having to pray for the dice to roll right...What if the target shouldn't move for the entire aiming time? (This is actually an idea by Sunrider on an other thread...) or the dc check to be only damage... ...Other than that, it looks quite balanced... Not sure if I'd play it, though... I tend to prefer full BAB for archers, since they need accuracy more than anything else I'm actually building this for 2 uses...future because I like archers lots and right now I,ve got a gestalt game coming so fighter/archer makes a devilish archer... :D Also, am I to assume this is a 19 level base class for some unknown reason?? same as the rogue actually....nothing special going on at level 20....kept it the same thanks !!!
Seerow 07-26-06, 11:03 PM	You like the one shot kill? Well in the Fighter Thread we recently wrote up some feats for the sniper. Maybe some of these might help you inspirationwise. Id recommend taking out the spells and the CDG ability. Sniper's Shot Requirements: BAB+4, Far Shot, Dex15 Effect: For every 3 points of BAB you have, you may ignore one point of your opponents armor bonus to AC if they are unaware of your presence. If you fire a single arrow as a full round action, you may double this amount. Called Shot Requirements: Dex13 Effect: You can take a penalty to hit up to your BAB on your attack roll, you gain a bonus to damage on all attacks equal to 2 times the penalty taken. Alternatively, if you have BAB+9 or more, you can use this as a full round action (which may be used with Sniper's Shot) to take a -10 penalty to hit to fire a single shot and double your weapon's threat range, this stacks with the Improved Critical Feat. True Shot Requirements: BAB+8, Sniper's Shot, Far Shot Effect: You may ignore any penalties to ranged attacks due to wind and storms. You treat the winds as if they were one category less for every 4 points of BAB you possess. Mage Sniper Requirements: BAB+12, Sniper's Shot Effect: When making a ranged attack through any magical effect that would completely prevent you from hitting your target, you may instead treat that effect as improved cover for your target; treat this AC bonus as a "magical cover" bonus. Multiple magical cover boni stack with eachother. Note that this feat does not affect barriers that are physical in nature, even those summoned by magic, like a Wall of Stone. Phase Arrow Requirements: BAB+14, Mystic Training, True Shot, Mage Sniper Effect: Anytime you at a target known to her within range, and the arrow travels to the target in a straight path, passing through any nonmagical barrier or wall in its way. (Any magical barrier stops the arrow.) This ability negates cover, concealment, and even armor modifiers, but otherwise the attack is rolled normally. Hunter's Eye Requirements: Sniper's Shot, BAB+6 Effect: You only take a -1 penalty for each range increment rather than a -2. If you have a BAB of +11 or more, you may fire an arrow twice as many range increments out. (20 maximum rather than 10) You gain a +5 bonus to spot checks. Focused Shot Requirements: Hunter's Eye, BAB+13 Effect: If you spend a full round action firing an arrow, you may ignore any penalties for range. This may be used in conjunction with any other feats that require you to fire only a single arrow. Phase Arrow Requirements: BAB+14, True Shot, Mage Sniper Effect: Anytime you fire a single arrow at a target known to you within range, and the arrow travels to the target in a straight path, passing through any nonmagical barrier or wall in its way. (Any magical barrier stops the arrow.) This ability negates cover, concealment, and even armor modifiers, but otherwise the attack is rolled normally.
Diideral 07-26-06, 11:20 PM	Thanks Seerow some of the feats you've posted i've seen with other names on the complete feats list on crystalkeep... the spells i put in there for the effect of the spell not jsut any spell; because if you you look at crippling strike, it could easily be made into a spell like arrow mind or exacting shot... they also add more choices than simply more feats...albeit I could make your list of feats (some) available as special abilities ...food for thought!! thanks!!
LordPendragon 07-26-06, 11:21 PM	I used the feat marksman without any tampering and they actually put it at BAB 5Well if it was already a feat by itself then go ahead and abuse it... If WotC decides to give you material like that, it's jsut begging to be broken. The question at that point becomes, "if it's already a feat, why waste a class feature gaining it??" However, if you really want it as a class feature, I'd say errata it to only work on flat-footed opponents, like Swift Strike from the Complete Adventurer's Ninja. Since this is a Rogue variant, you would do well to put in an ability that reduces Hide penalties from sniping. It would match the flavour very well.
Diideral 07-26-06, 11:40 PM	It's a feat alright but not by wotc...its the deadlands setting by AEG...woops I liked the idea but couldn't make myself use it as a feat...I like the flat-footed makes one spend feats on initative to use it better... For the hide part...I always tought a silenced bow,skill focus and en elven cloak could get you a long way But what would you suggest and most importantly...where to put it!?
LordPendragon 07-26-06, 11:48 PM	If you were deleting Marksman in favour of simply taking the feat, I'd say put it at 4th level. Failing that, 14th level is open, as is 20th. When sniping from a hiding spot, you can make a single attack as a standard action, and then hide again as a move action, but you take a -20 penalty to your Hide check for rushing. So yeah, a silent bow and Skill Focus will help, but reducing the sniping penalty will allow you to get away with making your character a lot better at sniping without making him "OMQ sO h4xx0rz3d" at hiding in general.
Diideral 07-27-06, 12:07 AM	... making him "OMQ sO h4xx0rz3d" at hiding in general could you translate this part? What if I transformed marksman so that instead of a CDG he gets something like a +3 to threat range...and modified dead aim to be BAB/2 casewith a +5 circumstance to hiding...what do you think?
Seerow 07-27-06, 12:16 AM	could you translate this part? What if I transformed marksman so that instead of a CDG he gets something like a +3 to threat range...and modified dead aim to be BAB/2 casewith a +5 circumstance to hiding...what do you think? He means make it so you're better at hiding when sniping, rather than awesome at hiding in general.
Diideral 07-27-06, 12:22 AM	Merci!