Archer Clerics [Archive] - Wizards Community

Archer Clerics [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Optimator
04-23-07, 03:46 AM What is the straight-up cookie-cutter build for Cleric Archers? I think it has to do with elves and certain domains of Corellon (War, etc).

Also, what are all the best buffing spells for said cleric-archer?

Any help would be appreciated.
runestar
04-23-07, 04:05 AM IIRC, the original incarnation had you taking elf domain for point blank shot and war domain for weapon focus: bow or time domain for improved initiative (there is one such elf goddess which fits the bill in the PGTF). Support with standard buff spells like divine power, divine favour etc, persisted/quickened if need be.

The current version has you taking the otherworldly feat to become a native outsider. You will want the spell domain for access to greater anyspell, which you use to prepare polymorph. Select the arrow demon form(MM3). Buff as need be. You may also want to worship mystra for access to the initiate of mystra feat, which adds anyspell to your spell list.

Dex can be considered a dump stat as you can take zen mastery.

Try snooping around here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=213480) and see what you can dig up..:)
StevenO
04-23-07, 02:50 PM The Zen Archery feat lets you use your Wis modifier instead of Dex for determining your ranged attack bonus. That feat would let even a low Dex cleric have a good ranged attack.
Optimator
04-23-07, 07:22 PM Right on.
Optimator
04-23-07, 08:32 PM I'm still trying to figure out what the best domains are. Anyone have any advice?
Necromas
04-23-07, 08:44 PM For race, you'll wanna be human for the bonus feat, or someting with a wisdom bonus. You can safely ignore dex as long as you have the 13 required for rapid shot (and maxing out fullplate) and just max wis, with the rest in strength and con to your liking, if you take zen archery.

War Domain (proficiency and weapon focus for a longbow, or greatbow if you can find the right deity)

Elf Domain (point blank shot)

Feats:
*Point Blank Shot
*Weapon Focus: Longbow
1 - Precise Shot
1 - Rapid Shot
3 - Zen Archery (pretty sure it requires 1 BAB, otherwise take it at level 1)
6 - Start taking cleric feats, you don't want to put too much into archery, and if you're a zen archer you don't have the dex for the feats.

P.S. If humans can't take the elf domain, then just be an elf and either go dex and ditch zen archery or be a sub race with a wis bonus and ditch/delay another feat.
Maraxus
04-23-07, 08:52 PM Lol, there is a Pest of Elven Subraces but I don't think a single one has a wis bonus.

As a DM, I'd require a player to be a (Half-) Elf to take the Elf Domain, or have a really good backround (The typical "Orphan raised by Elves" would not be enough). But mostly it depends on the campaign setting.
Metafictional
04-23-07, 09:13 PM The Time Domain is also nice, since it grants Improved Initiative for free (nothing like arrow shots at range on flat footed foes!), and True Strike is on the list of Domain spells, very nice if you go with spontaneous Domain Casting.

I did something like this once before, with a Elven Cleric of Erevan Ilesere, and it's actually pretty nice, since I could stay back out of the line of fire and lend some support (Divine Favor rocks for archers) between casting buffs and healing people who fell back to my position.

Lack of Feats hurts, but nothing like being able to Craft your own magic arrows later on.
Optimator
04-23-07, 09:49 PM Thanks for the advice--it's all starting to come together. Unfourtunately the character I want to make has to be a Snow Elf from Frostburn (The Dm is having a campaign where all of the players' characters are siblings of our greatest characters.) I was definitely going to use some Divine Metamagic stuff so the Cha loss will hurt a little.

From what I've gathered, acting like a Cleric who can do some archery is better than an archer who can act like a Cleric. Are ant PrCs particularly good for this? I noticed Contemplative is used occasionally. Since Clerics don't really get anything other than spells per level, there is no good reason to stick with cleric longer than neccessary, right? I've played DnD since 2nd Edition and I've never played a Cleric before (:eek: ) so this is all kinda new to me.

I noticed Funny Slaughter used the Sacred Exorcist in his build too. Why is that? Nothing in it seems particularly Archer-y. Is it there just because it is better than straight Cleric or what?

I could probably just worship the entire Elf Pantheon to get the Domains I want. I'm Leaning toward Elf and War, although there are a ton of good ones.
Jaxgaret
04-23-07, 10:03 PM From what I've gathered, acting like a Cleric who can do some archery is better than an archer who can act like a Cleric. Are ant PrCs particularly good for this? I noticed Contemplative is used occasionally. Since Clerics don't really get anything other than spells per level, there is no good reason to stick with cleric longer than neccessary, right? I've played DnD since 2nd Edition and I've never played a Cleric before (:eek: ) so this is all kinda new to me.

I noticed Funny Slaughter used the Sacred Exorcist in his build too. Why is that? Nothing in it seems particularly Archer-y. Is it there just because it is better than straight Cleric or what?

I could probably just worship the entire Elf Pantheon to get the Domains I want. I'm Leaning toward Elf and War, although there are a ton of good ones.

One of Funny Slaughter's reasons for taking levels in Sacred Exorcist is to get a very large number of Turn Attempts; his build allows him to DMM Persist Righteous Might (as well as Divine Power) at 15th level, as he says in his post. Note that he is using the 3.0 Sacred Exorcist from Defenders of the Faith. The Sacred Exorcist has been updated in Complete Divine since that post in 2004 and loses the bonus Extra Turning feats.

As you stated, pretty much any full casting PrC is better than going with straight Cleric levels.

Contemplative is taken to get the free Domain - it's always nice to get Domain powers.

I agree that taking the Elf and War domains is the usual Cleric archer build.
runestar
04-23-07, 10:41 PM As mentioned, you really only want the 1st lv of cleric for turn undead(to eventually fuel divine metamagic). You do not need to worry about bab with divine power around, so go wild with multiclassing, so long as you do not lose caster lvs.
Nausicaa
04-24-07, 12:49 AM I noticed Funny Slaughter used the Sacred Exorcist in his build too. Why is that? Nothing in it seems particularly Archer-y. Is it there just because it is better than straight Cleric or what?

I could probably just worship the entire Elf Pantheon to get the Domains I want. I'm Leaning toward Elf and War, although there are a ton of good ones.

The seeker of the misty island (i think it's called this way, in Complete Divine) requires elf (or half-elf) race, and survival 8 degree, but it gives you 2 bonus domains, and some other good abilities.. plus good Fortitude and Reflex. I think it's the best choice for a elf cleric archer.
Jenrock
04-24-07, 01:05 AM There is also a prestige on page three of the boards (at the time of my posting) that may help with this. It is called the Archer-Priest (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=834082). I didn't review it, but when I saw this thread, I thought it was worth mentioning.
danielinthewolvesden
04-24-07, 03:43 AM For race, you'll wanna be human for the bonus feat, or someting with a wisdom bonus.

Note that human clerics are not Proficient with Longbow, which is why the combo of War doman and Elf Domain is doubly important, unless you are an elf.

Few DM's will let human clerics choose the Elf domain, but the OP is fine there, as he has no choice but elf.
Optimator
04-24-07, 04:21 AM Other than the Elf domain, I can't think of what else to take. The Time domain looks pretty nice. Is weapon focus good enough to warrant the spells that come with the War domain? I'm not a huge fan of what is available.

Domains I can possibly convince my DM are in the Elven Pantheon are Chaos, Good, Protection, War, Magic, Trickery, Water, Plant, Sun, Knowledge, Travel, and Law. I'll check the FR setting for any others I can squeeze in.

If anyone knows of any other domain belonging to any non-drow elf god that I haven't listed, lemme know :)
Optimator
04-24-07, 04:39 AM Also, being an elf, my dex ain't bad. How good of an idea is Zen Archery then? I do plan to put every stat bonus into wisdom. Surely I will boost my own wisdom and dex with spells. That being the case, is Zen Archery usually worth a feat? I think it may be in the end, but I'd love to hear everyone's opinions.

I'm also wondering how feasable it is to squeeze DMM: Persist into the build. Probably won't get it intul pretty late in the build.
Nausicaa
04-24-07, 04:47 AM If you wanna save a feat, and your DM concedes persistent divine metamagic, you have the 5th lvl spell divine agility in the spell compendium
Metafictional
04-24-07, 09:57 AM The Elven God of Longevity, Labelas Enoreth, has Time and Elf Domains, sorry, should have mentioned that earlier.
Drewgimpy
04-24-07, 11:38 AM Also, being an elf, my dex ain't bad. How good of an idea is Zen Archery then? I do plan to put every stat bonus into wisdom. Surely I will boost my own wisdom and dex with spells. That being the case, is Zen Archery usually worth a feat? I think it may be in the end, but I'd love to hear everyone's opinions.

If your going to continue raising your WIS then I think you should use it for sure. Raising your ranged attack bonus and your spell bonus with one stat is just to great a thing to pass up. If your DEX is as good as your WIS to start with you can wait and take it later but as soon as you can start raising your WIS I would make sure you have it. The best choice in my opinion would be to take it from the start and max out your WIS.
runestar
04-24-07, 11:01 PM I think you can just leave your dex at 16 so as to benefit from mithral fullplate in the future, and then concentrate solely on boosting your wis. :) Your wis should be outstripping your dex anyways, so zen archery is just too useful to pass up, IMO.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Optimator 04-23-07, 03:46 AM	What is the straight-up cookie-cutter build for Cleric Archers? I think it has to do with elves and certain domains of Corellon (War, etc). Also, what are all the best buffing spells for said cleric-archer? Any help would be appreciated.
runestar 04-23-07, 04:05 AM	IIRC, the original incarnation had you taking elf domain for point blank shot and war domain for weapon focus: bow or time domain for improved initiative (there is one such elf goddess which fits the bill in the PGTF). Support with standard buff spells like divine power, divine favour etc, persisted/quickened if need be. The current version has you taking the otherworldly feat to become a native outsider. You will want the spell domain for access to greater anyspell, which you use to prepare polymorph. Select the arrow demon form(MM3). Buff as need be. You may also want to worship mystra for access to the initiate of mystra feat, which adds anyspell to your spell list. Dex can be considered a dump stat as you can take zen mastery. Try snooping around here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=213480) and see what you can dig up..:)
StevenO 04-23-07, 02:50 PM	The Zen Archery feat lets you use your Wis modifier instead of Dex for determining your ranged attack bonus. That feat would let even a low Dex cleric have a good ranged attack.
Optimator 04-23-07, 07:22 PM	Right on.
Optimator 04-23-07, 08:32 PM	I'm still trying to figure out what the best domains are. Anyone have any advice?
Necromas 04-23-07, 08:44 PM	For race, you'll wanna be human for the bonus feat, or someting with a wisdom bonus. You can safely ignore dex as long as you have the 13 required for rapid shot (and maxing out fullplate) and just max wis, with the rest in strength and con to your liking, if you take zen archery. War Domain (proficiency and weapon focus for a longbow, or greatbow if you can find the right deity) Elf Domain (point blank shot) Feats: Point Blank Shot Weapon Focus: Longbow 1 - Precise Shot 1 - Rapid Shot 3 - Zen Archery (pretty sure it requires 1 BAB, otherwise take it at level 1) 6 - Start taking cleric feats, you don't want to put too much into archery, and if you're a zen archer you don't have the dex for the feats. P.S. If humans can't take the elf domain, then just be an elf and either go dex and ditch zen archery or be a sub race with a wis bonus and ditch/delay another feat.
Maraxus 04-23-07, 08:52 PM	Lol, there is a Pest of Elven Subraces but I don't think a single one has a wis bonus. As a DM, I'd require a player to be a (Half-) Elf to take the Elf Domain, or have a really good backround (The typical "Orphan raised by Elves" would not be enough). But mostly it depends on the campaign setting.
Metafictional 04-23-07, 09:13 PM	The Time Domain is also nice, since it grants Improved Initiative for free (nothing like arrow shots at range on flat footed foes!), and True Strike is on the list of Domain spells, very nice if you go with spontaneous Domain Casting. I did something like this once before, with a Elven Cleric of Erevan Ilesere, and it's actually pretty nice, since I could stay back out of the line of fire and lend some support (Divine Favor rocks for archers) between casting buffs and healing people who fell back to my position. Lack of Feats hurts, but nothing like being able to Craft your own magic arrows later on.
Optimator 04-23-07, 09:49 PM	Thanks for the advice--it's all starting to come together. Unfourtunately the character I want to make has to be a Snow Elf from Frostburn (The Dm is having a campaign where all of the players' characters are siblings of our greatest characters.) I was definitely going to use some Divine Metamagic stuff so the Cha loss will hurt a little. From what I've gathered, acting like a Cleric who can do some archery is better than an archer who can act like a Cleric. Are ant PrCs particularly good for this? I noticed Contemplative is used occasionally. Since Clerics don't really get anything other than spells per level, there is no good reason to stick with cleric longer than neccessary, right? I've played DnD since 2nd Edition and I've never played a Cleric before (:eek: ) so this is all kinda new to me. I noticed Funny Slaughter used the Sacred Exorcist in his build too. Why is that? Nothing in it seems particularly Archer-y. Is it there just because it is better than straight Cleric or what? I could probably just worship the entire Elf Pantheon to get the Domains I want. I'm Leaning toward Elf and War, although there are a ton of good ones.
Jaxgaret 04-23-07, 10:03 PM	From what I've gathered, acting like a Cleric who can do some archery is better than an archer who can act like a Cleric. Are ant PrCs particularly good for this? I noticed Contemplative is used occasionally. Since Clerics don't really get anything other than spells per level, there is no good reason to stick with cleric longer than neccessary, right? I've played DnD since 2nd Edition and I've never played a Cleric before (:eek: ) so this is all kinda new to me. I noticed Funny Slaughter used the Sacred Exorcist in his build too. Why is that? Nothing in it seems particularly Archer-y. Is it there just because it is better than straight Cleric or what? I could probably just worship the entire Elf Pantheon to get the Domains I want. I'm Leaning toward Elf and War, although there are a ton of good ones. One of Funny Slaughter's reasons for taking levels in Sacred Exorcist is to get a very large number of Turn Attempts; his build allows him to DMM Persist Righteous Might (as well as Divine Power) at 15th level, as he says in his post. Note that he is using the 3.0 Sacred Exorcist from Defenders of the Faith. The Sacred Exorcist has been updated in Complete Divine since that post in 2004 and loses the bonus Extra Turning feats. As you stated, pretty much any full casting PrC is better than going with straight Cleric levels. Contemplative is taken to get the free Domain - it's always nice to get Domain powers. I agree that taking the Elf and War domains is the usual Cleric archer build.
runestar 04-23-07, 10:41 PM	As mentioned, you really only want the 1st lv of cleric for turn undead(to eventually fuel divine metamagic). You do not need to worry about bab with divine power around, so go wild with multiclassing, so long as you do not lose caster lvs.
Nausicaa 04-24-07, 12:49 AM	I noticed Funny Slaughter used the Sacred Exorcist in his build too. Why is that? Nothing in it seems particularly Archer-y. Is it there just because it is better than straight Cleric or what? I could probably just worship the entire Elf Pantheon to get the Domains I want. I'm Leaning toward Elf and War, although there are a ton of good ones. The seeker of the misty island (i think it's called this way, in Complete Divine) requires elf (or half-elf) race, and survival 8 degree, but it gives you 2 bonus domains, and some other good abilities.. plus good Fortitude and Reflex. I think it's the best choice for a elf cleric archer.
Jenrock 04-24-07, 01:05 AM	There is also a prestige on page three of the boards (at the time of my posting) that may help with this. It is called the Archer-Priest (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=834082). I didn't review it, but when I saw this thread, I thought it was worth mentioning.
danielinthewolvesden 04-24-07, 03:43 AM	For race, you'll wanna be human for the bonus feat, or someting with a wisdom bonus. Note that human clerics are not Proficient with Longbow, which is why the combo of War doman and Elf Domain is doubly important, unless you are an elf. Few DM's will let human clerics choose the Elf domain, but the OP is fine there, as he has no choice but elf.
Optimator 04-24-07, 04:21 AM	Other than the Elf domain, I can't think of what else to take. The Time domain looks pretty nice. Is weapon focus good enough to warrant the spells that come with the War domain? I'm not a huge fan of what is available. Domains I can possibly convince my DM are in the Elven Pantheon are Chaos, Good, Protection, War, Magic, Trickery, Water, Plant, Sun, Knowledge, Travel, and Law. I'll check the FR setting for any others I can squeeze in. If anyone knows of any other domain belonging to any non-drow elf god that I haven't listed, lemme know :)
Optimator 04-24-07, 04:39 AM	Also, being an elf, my dex ain't bad. How good of an idea is Zen Archery then? I do plan to put every stat bonus into wisdom. Surely I will boost my own wisdom and dex with spells. That being the case, is Zen Archery usually worth a feat? I think it may be in the end, but I'd love to hear everyone's opinions. I'm also wondering how feasable it is to squeeze DMM: Persist into the build. Probably won't get it intul pretty late in the build.
Nausicaa 04-24-07, 04:47 AM	If you wanna save a feat, and your DM concedes persistent divine metamagic, you have the 5th lvl spell divine agility in the spell compendium
Metafictional 04-24-07, 09:57 AM	The Elven God of Longevity, Labelas Enoreth, has Time and Elf Domains, sorry, should have mentioned that earlier.
Drewgimpy 04-24-07, 11:38 AM	Also, being an elf, my dex ain't bad. How good of an idea is Zen Archery then? I do plan to put every stat bonus into wisdom. Surely I will boost my own wisdom and dex with spells. That being the case, is Zen Archery usually worth a feat? I think it may be in the end, but I'd love to hear everyone's opinions. If your going to continue raising your WIS then I think you should use it for sure. Raising your ranged attack bonus and your spell bonus with one stat is just to great a thing to pass up. If your DEX is as good as your WIS to start with you can wait and take it later but as soon as you can start raising your WIS I would make sure you have it. The best choice in my opinion would be to take it from the start and max out your WIS.
runestar 04-24-07, 11:01 PM	I think you can just leave your dex at 16 so as to benefit from mithral fullplate in the future, and then concentrate solely on boosting your wis. :) Your wis should be outstripping your dex anyways, so zen archery is just too useful to pass up, IMO.