Archer prestige or straight class? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Archer prestige or straight class? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Meixuejeni
09-14-06, 10:10 AM I'm building a ranger and am unsure whether to PrCl the deepwood sniper and/or the order of the bow intiate, or just stick with straight ranger/fighter levels. Deepwood has that nice x5 multiplier of which a spell like Hunter's Mercy really takes advantage. Then you have the 5D8 precise shot of the bow initiate which is like an infinite (albeit lesser) version of hunter's Mercy. Also, does anyone know of a 3.5 update to the Order of the Bow Master found in dragon magazine?
VonRichthofen
09-14-06, 10:17 AM I'd go for pure ranger.

Only thing worth thinking about might be 3 level of Pious Templar for Weapon Specialization and then a little Ranged Weapon Mastery to grant you a much-needed +3/+4 boost to your attacks/damage.

Otherwise, the OotBI's +5d8 functions only for ONE shot per round, that's pretty bad for a ranger that can deal tons of extra damage with favoured enemy bonuses, spells et. al.

Two levels of DS for the increased threat range and the increased multiplier are okay too, but I wouldn't take it through to the end.

Try to keep your ranger casting & special abilities intact, that's my advice.
fullmetal80110
09-14-06, 10:56 AM If you're not limited to books there is a class in the ultimate presitege class volume 1. They get attacks of oppurtunity at range.
Meixuejeni
09-14-06, 11:05 AM Von: Thanks for the suggestion. I didn't want to sacrifice too many levels of ranger due to spell loss. Not that they get an abundance of spells, but the quality's there. PT looks good, although i might take 2 levels of PT and 2 levels of fighter. And 2 levels of DS. Not too discontinuous. :) BTW, do PrCls incur XP penalties akin to normal classes?

Metal: I'm limited to the core, races, and complete books. Although i'm sure I could talk my DM into the splat books (masters, etc.) for the DS.
MoonSprite
09-14-06, 11:19 AM For an Archer, I go elf with Ranger 3/Fighter 2/Wizard 1/Order of The Bow Initiate 2/Deepwood Sniper 2/Arcane Archer 10, but that's just me.(Also, if your DM houserules that spellcasting from ranger meets prereqs of AA, remove the wizard and add one of ranger)

In this case, I would go with more ranger levels, if needed some of fighter and the 2 levels of DS. Ranger levels are really nice.
Thurilien Lindoriad
09-14-06, 11:22 AM BTW, do PrCls incur XP penalties akin to normal classes?
No, they do not.
Meixuejeni
09-14-06, 11:28 AM Sprite: I like the AA PrCl, but I already committed to the Catfolk race from Races Wild. His background is integrated with an Elven community so my DM might break it for me. He'll definetly hold me to Ranger spells as Divine, though, so it might be a moot point. I just wish I could get that enhance arrow ability some other way.
TrajanCavalous
09-14-06, 03:32 PM I'll second or third the vote for pure Ranger.

1 level of Exotic Weapon Master for the Close Combat Shot trick is worth it otherwise don't fong your very nice skill progression and ok spell progression. And take Craft Wand or Staff to up the availability of the cool Ranger archery spells.
Meixuejeni
09-14-06, 03:54 PM You know I never thought of a craft feat for my ranger (besides bow, of course), but a wand of Hunter's Mercy or Guided Shot would be very useful.
Elemental_Master
09-14-06, 04:01 PM House rule a fighter out of his Heavy and Med armor and get something like Precise shot or the combat line from the ranger. Then get a level of Sorc (more spells per day and your more specialized as you should be). AA is awesome as then you can soup your bow with properties without the + attributes. Of course max out the Dex with STR secondary.
Seerow
09-14-06, 04:40 PM Another vote for Straight Ranger.

Honestly, Deepwood Sniper is probably the only decent archer prestige out there. The Ranger's spells make up for whatever you lose there.

Though I have to say, Cleric wins all.
MerlintheTuna
09-14-06, 05:00 PM Straight Fighter is a solid archer as well. The inability to Power Attack makes Weapon Specialization seem really nifty all of the sudden.
Seerow
09-14-06, 05:31 PM Eh, no more than 4 levels of Fighter. Just enough to get Ranged Weapon Mastery, then be off to better things.

Two levels of OotBI may actually be worthwhile, if you find yourself closer to melee than you would like often. I prefer to play archers as snipers, but some people can't seem to stay more than 10 feet from combat.
The_Shaman
09-14-06, 05:41 PM I'd vote for ranger, with a slight dip in Deepwood sniper to get a further +1 to your critical hit modifier; then get a bow with the X burst property. A good crit and they roll for massive damage death. Not to mention what DS does to the arrow swarm spell. If you like the ranger spells, a further +1 may be too much; there is a tactical feat in RotW that lets you lessen concealment anyway.

Of course, if your DM has you fighting in point-blank range, there is little use in the sniper's skills, except for the better criticals, so ranger may prove more useful. At any rate, it might be good to get improved rapid shot (from CW) if you can spare the feat.
Jerks
09-14-06, 06:19 PM I like the Ranger with a 4 level dip into Fighter. This will net you three feats of which Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization should be two of them. That puts you in line for Ranged Weapon Mastery as you level up.
MerlintheTuna
09-14-06, 06:35 PM Eh, no more than 4 levels of Fighter. Just enough to get Ranged Weapon Mastery, then be off to better things.

The 4-level Fighter dip is certainly a classic, but there are enough bow-related feats around to make Fighter 20 a viable, powerful archer. Is he as good as a straight ranger? Eh, probably not -- Ranger spells have been getting quite a bit better, feats largely stay the same. But you're not doing yourself a disservice by having a tremendous number of feats at your disposal.
Meixuejeni
09-14-06, 07:30 PM Thank you all for the advice. I think I'll go with F4, DS2, and R14+. Gives me the weapon specialization, +1 crit, and stealth abilities. Figure on pumping up my Hide, Move, Spot, and Listen. The +10 ft per DS level is tempting, but I can always add that later. Besides, as mentioned the new spells (ala spell compendium) are pretty good. One staff of combat archery and one stealth staff and i'll be unstoppable! MWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! And my DM's pretty cool about letting us shine in our respective talents. He might force me into a melee situation if I start wasting everything, but such is life. A bit off topic; has anyone ever created a magic-item pricing website/program? Would be immensely helpful.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Meixuejeni 09-14-06, 10:10 AM	I'm building a ranger and am unsure whether to PrCl the deepwood sniper and/or the order of the bow intiate, or just stick with straight ranger/fighter levels. Deepwood has that nice x5 multiplier of which a spell like Hunter's Mercy really takes advantage. Then you have the 5D8 precise shot of the bow initiate which is like an infinite (albeit lesser) version of hunter's Mercy. Also, does anyone know of a 3.5 update to the Order of the Bow Master found in dragon magazine?
VonRichthofen 09-14-06, 10:17 AM	I'd go for pure ranger. Only thing worth thinking about might be 3 level of Pious Templar for Weapon Specialization and then a little Ranged Weapon Mastery to grant you a much-needed +3/+4 boost to your attacks/damage. Otherwise, the OotBI's +5d8 functions only for ONE shot per round, that's pretty bad for a ranger that can deal tons of extra damage with favoured enemy bonuses, spells et. al. Two levels of DS for the increased threat range and the increased multiplier are okay too, but I wouldn't take it through to the end. Try to keep your ranger casting & special abilities intact, that's my advice.
fullmetal80110 09-14-06, 10:56 AM	If you're not limited to books there is a class in the ultimate presitege class volume 1. They get attacks of oppurtunity at range.
Meixuejeni 09-14-06, 11:05 AM	Von: Thanks for the suggestion. I didn't want to sacrifice too many levels of ranger due to spell loss. Not that they get an abundance of spells, but the quality's there. PT looks good, although i might take 2 levels of PT and 2 levels of fighter. And 2 levels of DS. Not too discontinuous. :) BTW, do PrCls incur XP penalties akin to normal classes? Metal: I'm limited to the core, races, and complete books. Although i'm sure I could talk my DM into the splat books (masters, etc.) for the DS.
MoonSprite 09-14-06, 11:19 AM	For an Archer, I go elf with Ranger 3/Fighter 2/Wizard 1/Order of The Bow Initiate 2/Deepwood Sniper 2/Arcane Archer 10, but that's just me.(Also, if your DM houserules that spellcasting from ranger meets prereqs of AA, remove the wizard and add one of ranger) In this case, I would go with more ranger levels, if needed some of fighter and the 2 levels of DS. Ranger levels are really nice.
Thurilien Lindoriad 09-14-06, 11:22 AM	BTW, do PrCls incur XP penalties akin to normal classes? No, they do not.
Meixuejeni 09-14-06, 11:28 AM	Sprite: I like the AA PrCl, but I already committed to the Catfolk race from Races Wild. His background is integrated with an Elven community so my DM might break it for me. He'll definetly hold me to Ranger spells as Divine, though, so it might be a moot point. I just wish I could get that enhance arrow ability some other way.
TrajanCavalous 09-14-06, 03:32 PM	I'll second or third the vote for pure Ranger. 1 level of Exotic Weapon Master for the Close Combat Shot trick is worth it otherwise don't fong your very nice skill progression and ok spell progression. And take Craft Wand or Staff to up the availability of the cool Ranger archery spells.
Meixuejeni 09-14-06, 03:54 PM	You know I never thought of a craft feat for my ranger (besides bow, of course), but a wand of Hunter's Mercy or Guided Shot would be very useful.
Elemental_Master 09-14-06, 04:01 PM	House rule a fighter out of his Heavy and Med armor and get something like Precise shot or the combat line from the ranger. Then get a level of Sorc (more spells per day and your more specialized as you should be). AA is awesome as then you can soup your bow with properties without the + attributes. Of course max out the Dex with STR secondary.
Seerow 09-14-06, 04:40 PM	Another vote for Straight Ranger. Honestly, Deepwood Sniper is probably the only decent archer prestige out there. The Ranger's spells make up for whatever you lose there. Though I have to say, Cleric wins all.
MerlintheTuna 09-14-06, 05:00 PM	Straight Fighter is a solid archer as well. The inability to Power Attack makes Weapon Specialization seem really nifty all of the sudden.
Seerow 09-14-06, 05:31 PM	Eh, no more than 4 levels of Fighter. Just enough to get Ranged Weapon Mastery, then be off to better things. Two levels of OotBI may actually be worthwhile, if you find yourself closer to melee than you would like often. I prefer to play archers as snipers, but some people can't seem to stay more than 10 feet from combat.
The_Shaman 09-14-06, 05:41 PM	I'd vote for ranger, with a slight dip in Deepwood sniper to get a further +1 to your critical hit modifier; then get a bow with the X burst property. A good crit and they roll for massive damage death. Not to mention what DS does to the arrow swarm spell. If you like the ranger spells, a further +1 may be too much; there is a tactical feat in RotW that lets you lessen concealment anyway. Of course, if your DM has you fighting in point-blank range, there is little use in the sniper's skills, except for the better criticals, so ranger may prove more useful. At any rate, it might be good to get improved rapid shot (from CW) if you can spare the feat.
Jerks 09-14-06, 06:19 PM	I like the Ranger with a 4 level dip into Fighter. This will net you three feats of which Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization should be two of them. That puts you in line for Ranged Weapon Mastery as you level up.
MerlintheTuna 09-14-06, 06:35 PM	Eh, no more than 4 levels of Fighter. Just enough to get Ranged Weapon Mastery, then be off to better things. The 4-level Fighter dip is certainly a classic, but there are enough bow-related feats around to make Fighter 20 a viable, powerful archer. Is he as good as a straight ranger? Eh, probably not -- Ranger spells have been getting quite a bit better, feats largely stay the same. But you're not doing yourself a disservice by having a tremendous number of feats at your disposal.
Meixuejeni 09-14-06, 07:30 PM	Thank you all for the advice. I think I'll go with F4, DS2, and R14+. Gives me the weapon specialization, +1 crit, and stealth abilities. Figure on pumping up my Hide, Move, Spot, and Listen. The +10 ft per DS level is tempting, but I can always add that later. Besides, as mentioned the new spells (ala spell compendium) are pretty good. One staff of combat archery and one stealth staff and i'll be unstoppable! MWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! And my DM's pretty cool about letting us shine in our respective talents. He might force me into a melee situation if I start wasting everything, but such is life. A bit off topic; has anyone ever created a magic-item pricing website/program? Would be immensely helpful.