Archer Question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Archer Question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Xajekon
07-01-05, 06:28 AM I was wondering how I should go about making an Archer, if I should go with a Fighter or Ranger or maybe something else, our group has LOTS of Melee and Magic, and is getting wasted at medium to longer ranges when the enemies are protected from Magic. I need an Archer to end all, yet not get killed in 1 round when I get forced to melee.

Thank you for your time,
Xajekon
gbnogkfs
07-01-05, 06:48 AM the best option would be a fighter. more feats, which are the issue... that would end to being the most versatile at first.
The Ranger is a very good second option, giving out the feat-versatility of the fighter for stealth and specialisation with its favoured enemies.
then there are some very popular Prestige Classes out there which occupies the archer niche: the Order of the Bow Initiate, the Peerless Archer, and other.

If you already know you are getting always in melee, there is imvho little use for a ranged fighter, as dealing high damage with a melee weapon is very much simpler than with a ranged weapon, and firing in melee causes AoOs.
If you nevertheless want to pursue the career, there are some options like favour high AC, or take the Dodge and similar feats, or take Quick Draw to extract your melee weapon and attack on the same round when the enemies get near (but it is difficult to be expert in both a melee and ranged weapon even for a straight fighter), or take a look at the OotBI PrC (Complete Warrior, I assume) that helps you with ranged weapons in melee combat.
ksbsnowowl
07-01-05, 09:56 AM Check out the Archer Build Thread linked in my sig.

At the very least, take one level of ranger, because a mere one level allows you to use wands of Ranger Spells.
Elessara
07-01-05, 10:06 AM At level 2 of Order of the Bow Initiate, you get Close Combat Ranged Attack which means that anyone threatening you does NOT get AoO's when you fire.

At the moment I have a level 10/3 fighter/order of the bow initiate. The extra fighter feats really help. Rapid Shot, Improved Rapid Shot, Precise Shot, Improved Precise Shot, Farshot ... and of course, Weapon Focus, Weapon Spec., etc. I prefer 3.5 for the archer as in 3.5 you are not limited to the 30' rule on weapon spec. damage - at least, I couldn't find where it stated weapon spec. damage only applied when within 30' of the target like it does in 3.0. Then, if you can fly there's Plunging Shot which gives you an extra 1d6 damage per arrow if you're 30' or higher than your target.

And you can also go with the Greatbow option from the Arms and Equipment Guide. A composite greatbow has a range of 130 and does 1d10 damage and you can make it a strength bow. Then there's the Splitting weapon ability from Champions of Ruin which causes each arrow/bolt to split when in flight - so for each arrow you're effectively firing 2 arrows (that's a +3 enhancement bonus though).

Elessara~
Verdaloth
07-01-05, 10:09 AM If you want for a true archer go with Shadow Foot's archer, its amazing. and my fav archer was a pixie using a great boy...it was disgustting
Chris StarShade
07-01-05, 10:17 AM Perhaps you typoed... pixie using a great boy? Yes, I can imagine ways that would be disgusting.
Maraxus
07-01-05, 10:56 AM On the low levels, the fighter is the class to go. Most ranged attack feats are worth it.

However, on the higher levels, you might want to go over to a PrC or multiclass with a bit of ranger and rogue.
For the Prestige classes, I would say:

Peerless Archer: The best one ever. Power shot at level 3 is one ability that looks to good to be true to me, all the other abilities are nice, too.

Arcane Archer: Nice. Not really great however and you have to either multiclass into something arcane or take a hexblade as your base class. Both choises are not really great. Imbue arrow is only usefull for very specific characters (Wizard X, Arcane Archer 2, Eldrich Knight Y). Phase Arrow and seeker arrow are nice but the 1/day makes it uninteresting, too.
Hail of arrows is maybe the best of all abilities and probably the point to stop, because the arrow of death DC is not that great and having only one makes it not better.
Shooting (up to) +5 arrows is another goodie but you have to expect something from 9 levels (+ heavy requirements)

Order of the bow: Bad. His main ability: Precise Shoot, is bad. You will hardly ever use it. The second level ability: Close combat shot is nice, but take a greatbow and one level of exotic weapon master and you have this, too.

This are some obvious. However I would also mention:

Kensai: Again, as a straight fighter you will have a hart time quallifing for this class but it makes a good archer. Build excatly the bow you want. You will not use mighty Power surge as much as other kensai but the weapon and the other abilities are worth it.

Assasin: Okay, this is evil but it's a powerful alternative to multiclassing rogue. It also qualifies you for arcane archer. Possible build: Fighter 4, Ranger 1, Assasin 3, Arcane Archer 8 or something
Lorianne
07-01-05, 11:35 AM To become a proper archer, you need an awfull lot of feats. Fighters would be the first choice on that basis alone. The second choice is Ranger, giving you more flexability with your other abilities.

Pro's & Con's of the Fighter:
+ Lots of feats for the archery path
+ High BAB
+ High HP
- Poor skill selection

Pro's & Con's of the Ranger:
+ Archery Combat Style
+ High BAB
+ Lots of skills & abilities
- Mediocre HP

I'm very much against multiclassing just because you can use the classes wands/scrolls/whatever. I'd advise that you choose one of the classes, depending on which suits your style of play more.
Elessara
07-01-05, 12:06 PM Yeah, Order of the Bow Initiate is kind of bad. But if you have to move around a lot, then the Precise Shot ability is actually pretty good, because I believe I you can combine a standard action and a move action (please tell me if I'm wrong).

My archer is a pixie with a composite great bow (strength +4). She's small so it only does 1d8 damage, but it's better than the 1d6 it would have done. And being able to fly usually ensures that you can get 30' above a target (for Plunging Shot) unless you're in a tunnel.

Elessara~
Verdaloth
07-01-05, 01:22 PM Perhaps you typoed... pixie using a great boy? Yes, I can imagine ways that would be disgusting.
LMFAO! great bow, lol.
Verdaloth
07-01-05, 01:23 PM there is a new archer prc class in either champions of ruin or hearos of battle, it gets great spells, some sneak atk and combt arghery too
Thrak
07-01-05, 05:28 PM Elven fighter, a sniper rifle in the form of a bow. That is, if you do him right.
Timlagor
07-01-05, 05:34 PM I think I would start with at least 2 levels each of Fighter and Ranger -probably Ranger first for the Skill points.
ksbsnowowl
07-01-05, 07:51 PM there is a new archer prc class in either champions of ruin or hearos of battle, it gets great spells, some sneak atk and combt arghery tooJustice of the Weald and Woe from Champions of Ruin. It's ok, but not exceptionally great, IMO. It only gets medium BAB, but I will admit the new arrow spells are nice (though they all also appear on the ranger list). At 6th level is gets the same ability as a second level OotBI. I think it also gets an ability to gain a +10 bonus to attacks once or twice a day. Some alright abilities, but overall I wasn't very impressed.
Elessara
07-01-05, 08:40 PM Isn't there also an alignment restriction on that class from Champions of Ruin?

Elessara~
ksbsnowowl
07-01-05, 09:36 PM I don't think so, but if it does have one, it would be Neutral; it isn't evil.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Xajekon 07-01-05, 06:28 AM	I was wondering how I should go about making an Archer, if I should go with a Fighter or Ranger or maybe something else, our group has LOTS of Melee and Magic, and is getting wasted at medium to longer ranges when the enemies are protected from Magic. I need an Archer to end all, yet not get killed in 1 round when I get forced to melee. Thank you for your time, Xajekon
gbnogkfs 07-01-05, 06:48 AM	the best option would be a fighter. more feats, which are the issue... that would end to being the most versatile at first. The Ranger is a very good second option, giving out the feat-versatility of the fighter for stealth and specialisation with its favoured enemies. then there are some very popular Prestige Classes out there which occupies the archer niche: the Order of the Bow Initiate, the Peerless Archer, and other. If you already know you are getting always in melee, there is imvho little use for a ranged fighter, as dealing high damage with a melee weapon is very much simpler than with a ranged weapon, and firing in melee causes AoOs. If you nevertheless want to pursue the career, there are some options like favour high AC, or take the Dodge and similar feats, or take Quick Draw to extract your melee weapon and attack on the same round when the enemies get near (but it is difficult to be expert in both a melee and ranged weapon even for a straight fighter), or take a look at the OotBI PrC (Complete Warrior, I assume) that helps you with ranged weapons in melee combat.
ksbsnowowl 07-01-05, 09:56 AM	Check out the Archer Build Thread linked in my sig. At the very least, take one level of ranger, because a mere one level allows you to use wands of Ranger Spells.
Elessara 07-01-05, 10:06 AM	At level 2 of Order of the Bow Initiate, you get Close Combat Ranged Attack which means that anyone threatening you does NOT get AoO's when you fire. At the moment I have a level 10/3 fighter/order of the bow initiate. The extra fighter feats really help. Rapid Shot, Improved Rapid Shot, Precise Shot, Improved Precise Shot, Farshot ... and of course, Weapon Focus, Weapon Spec., etc. I prefer 3.5 for the archer as in 3.5 you are not limited to the 30' rule on weapon spec. damage - at least, I couldn't find where it stated weapon spec. damage only applied when within 30' of the target like it does in 3.0. Then, if you can fly there's Plunging Shot which gives you an extra 1d6 damage per arrow if you're 30' or higher than your target. And you can also go with the Greatbow option from the Arms and Equipment Guide. A composite greatbow has a range of 130 and does 1d10 damage and you can make it a strength bow. Then there's the Splitting weapon ability from Champions of Ruin which causes each arrow/bolt to split when in flight - so for each arrow you're effectively firing 2 arrows (that's a +3 enhancement bonus though). Elessara~
Verdaloth 07-01-05, 10:09 AM	If you want for a true archer go with Shadow Foot's archer, its amazing. and my fav archer was a pixie using a great boy...it was disgustting
Chris StarShade 07-01-05, 10:17 AM	Perhaps you typoed... pixie using a great boy? Yes, I can imagine ways that would be disgusting.
Maraxus 07-01-05, 10:56 AM	On the low levels, the fighter is the class to go. Most ranged attack feats are worth it. However, on the higher levels, you might want to go over to a PrC or multiclass with a bit of ranger and rogue. For the Prestige classes, I would say: Peerless Archer: The best one ever. Power shot at level 3 is one ability that looks to good to be true to me, all the other abilities are nice, too. Arcane Archer: Nice. Not really great however and you have to either multiclass into something arcane or take a hexblade as your base class. Both choises are not really great. Imbue arrow is only usefull for very specific characters (Wizard X, Arcane Archer 2, Eldrich Knight Y). Phase Arrow and seeker arrow are nice but the 1/day makes it uninteresting, too. Hail of arrows is maybe the best of all abilities and probably the point to stop, because the arrow of death DC is not that great and having only one makes it not better. Shooting (up to) +5 arrows is another goodie but you have to expect something from 9 levels (+ heavy requirements) Order of the bow: Bad. His main ability: Precise Shoot, is bad. You will hardly ever use it. The second level ability: Close combat shot is nice, but take a greatbow and one level of exotic weapon master and you have this, too. This are some obvious. However I would also mention: Kensai: Again, as a straight fighter you will have a hart time quallifing for this class but it makes a good archer. Build excatly the bow you want. You will not use mighty Power surge as much as other kensai but the weapon and the other abilities are worth it. Assasin: Okay, this is evil but it's a powerful alternative to multiclassing rogue. It also qualifies you for arcane archer. Possible build: Fighter 4, Ranger 1, Assasin 3, Arcane Archer 8 or something
Lorianne 07-01-05, 11:35 AM	To become a proper archer, you need an awfull lot of feats. Fighters would be the first choice on that basis alone. The second choice is Ranger, giving you more flexability with your other abilities. Pro's & Con's of the Fighter: + Lots of feats for the archery path + High BAB + High HP - Poor skill selection Pro's & Con's of the Ranger: + Archery Combat Style + High BAB + Lots of skills & abilities - Mediocre HP I'm very much against multiclassing just because you can use the classes wands/scrolls/whatever. I'd advise that you choose one of the classes, depending on which suits your style of play more.
Elessara 07-01-05, 12:06 PM	Yeah, Order of the Bow Initiate is kind of bad. But if you have to move around a lot, then the Precise Shot ability is actually pretty good, because I believe I you can combine a standard action and a move action (please tell me if I'm wrong). My archer is a pixie with a composite great bow (strength +4). She's small so it only does 1d8 damage, but it's better than the 1d6 it would have done. And being able to fly usually ensures that you can get 30' above a target (for Plunging Shot) unless you're in a tunnel. Elessara~
Verdaloth 07-01-05, 01:22 PM	Perhaps you typoed... pixie using a great boy? Yes, I can imagine ways that would be disgusting. LMFAO! great bow, lol.
Verdaloth 07-01-05, 01:23 PM	there is a new archer prc class in either champions of ruin or hearos of battle, it gets great spells, some sneak atk and combt arghery too
Thrak 07-01-05, 05:28 PM	Elven fighter, a sniper rifle in the form of a bow. That is, if you do him right.
Timlagor 07-01-05, 05:34 PM	I think I would start with at least 2 levels each of Fighter and Ranger -probably Ranger first for the Skill points.
ksbsnowowl 07-01-05, 07:51 PM	there is a new archer prc class in either champions of ruin or hearos of battle, it gets great spells, some sneak atk and combt arghery tooJustice of the Weald and Woe from Champions of Ruin. It's ok, but not exceptionally great, IMO. It only gets medium BAB, but I will admit the new arrow spells are nice (though they all also appear on the ranger list). At 6th level is gets the same ability as a second level OotBI. I think it also gets an ability to gain a +10 bonus to attacks once or twice a day. Some alright abilities, but overall I wasn't very impressed.
Elessara 07-01-05, 08:40 PM	Isn't there also an alignment restriction on that class from Champions of Ruin? Elessara~
ksbsnowowl 07-01-05, 09:36 PM	I don't think so, but if it does have one, it would be Neutral; it isn't evil.