Archer Questions. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Archer Questions. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ollee64
12-30-07, 08:34 PM Ive been playing for somewhere over a year and a half, but i have some questions. I know the basics and have a good feel for most rules, except ive never played an archer. Im planning one at the moment as a backup character, but i have some questions:

1. Is the only way to get extra shots when using a bow through feats?

2. I have CW and it has some other stuff, but are there any other books that have some neat Archery Classes, PrC's or feats?

Any help is appreciated,
Thanks
-Me.
Cartigan
12-30-07, 08:48 PM You can try to get homebrew classes approved *cough Hunter cough*

Anyway, you also get multiple shops because of the high BAB like normal. PHII has a couple worthwhile archery feats I think and everyone is always on about Greater Manyshot from Expanded Psionics Handbook. And some one is going to come in and talk about how Tome of Battle is the best book ever and you should use X ToB class instead of whatever you were using, etc.

And almost all non Order of the Bow Initiate PrCs are based around the Scout or Ranger.
Talisman
12-30-07, 08:59 PM You can try to get homebrew classes approved *cough Hunter cough*

Seconded. It's actually quite a good class.

Also, if your GM is homebrew-tolerant, go to the top of the page and search this forum (and the Feats one) for "archer," "bow," "arrow," etc. Lots of creative people here.
Kapalen
12-30-07, 09:17 PM Ive been playing for somewhere over a year and a half, but i have some questions. I know the basics and have a good feel for most rules, except ive never played an archer. Im planning one at the moment as a backup character, but i have some questions:

1. Is the only way to get extra shots when using a bow through feats?

2. I have CW and it has some other stuff, but are there any other books that have some neat Archery Classes, PrC's or feats?

Any help is appreciated,
Thanks
-Me.

1. You get iterative attacks with a bow from Base attack bonus just like with a sword.

2. As mentioned Greater Manyshot from Expanded Psionics handbook is pretty cool, importantly it meshes well with the scout class' skirmish which if you take the feat Swift Hunter(I think it's called) in complete scoundrel meshes well with the ranger class, and is sort of a quasi-official ranger fix feat. Or you could take some fighter and get all the cool feats that way. Order of the bow Initiate from CW is usually considered pretty crappy because it takes a standard action, especially compared to skirmish, though it may be a good idea to take a couple of levels to get close-combat shot if you intend to be in melee range.
Ollee64
12-30-07, 10:23 PM thanks so far...

so my understanding of rapidshot so far http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#rapidShot from the srd there is that it gives the same bonus two-weapon fighting feat does, giving another attack at a -2 to attack bonus...am i rite?
dman11235
12-30-07, 10:23 PM Or if you might possibly be in melee range and won't have Arrow Mind up. You never actually said wqhere those things are by the way, Scout is in CAdv, and Swift Hunter is in CScondrel. Good build is ranger 17 or 16, scout 3 or 4.
Stardust
12-30-07, 10:32 PM Don't forget spells like haste, in 3.5 it affects pretty much the whole party, so if you full attack you can get an extra shot in from that. Feasibly at level 6 you could 4 shots if you had full BAB - 2 iterative attacks, 1 from rapid shot (which you should have as an archer) and one from haste. Not too shabby.
JaronK
12-30-07, 11:45 PM Races of Stone has the Cragtop Archer, which would be worthwhile for a long range sniper (and by long range, I'm talking 2+ miles per shot).

At that point, you need a level of Binder (Tome of Magic) with Improved Binding to bind Malphas, just to be able to see a target that far away.

Then you'll want a nice Brilliant Energy Dragonbone Composite Greatbow of Distance +1 (a +7 weapon, in total, with a base range increment of around 300 feet). Use your Malphas bird to spot and shoot your enemies from outside the dungeon, whee!

JaronK
archerpwr
12-31-07, 02:11 AM Depending on what books you have available, here's some solid archery builds I've cooked up.

Ranger 14/ Scout 4/ Stalker of kharash 2
Strongheart halfling scout 1/ ranger 6/ Stalker of kharash 2/ scout +3/ ranger +8

Feats:
1) PBS, Precise
3) ancestral relic
6) favored of the companions
9) nemesis(evil)
12) greater manyshot
Scout 4) Swift hunter
15 Improved Skirmish
18) darkstalker

Varients assumed: urban companion (for alertness), arcane hunter.

Really matures at level 12.
That one is IMO the ideal striker for a short range good aligned game.

I haven't made one of these I've been satisfied with yet. Here are some threads where I've analyized the weakness of this style:
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=959892
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=863508
InkBlot
12-31-07, 02:21 AM Malphas's birds still have to take the time to fly somewhere if you want to use the ability to see through their eyes to line up long-distance snipes like that.

A better idea would be to take two or three levels of Ardent with the fate mantle, and pick up the clairvoyant sense power.

Clairvoyant sense is a psionic power from the Expanded Psionics Handbook (XPH), which lets you see/hear from any point in space you know of (no range limit), including "3 miles due east, about 100 feet over above that castle." The Expanded Psionics Handbook, despite the name, is the basic psionics book for D&D 3.5.

Ardent is a Wisdom-based psionic class with 3/4 BAB, plenty of power points, but only a few powers known. Ardents are from Complete Psionic, which is the worst of the Complete X series but still has a few neat tricks. Ardents can make decent archers, especially with Zen Archery. There is no Ardent power list; Ardents compose their power lists by selecting mantles, which are short lists of themed powers coupled with a neat special ability (like a Cleric's domain). Every few levels they get a new mantle. Flavorwise, Ardents use develop their psychic powers in order to better embody their personal philosophy (and they must pick their mantles to match that philosophy).

There's also the Psychic Warrior, from the XPH. They're like Fighters, but they get augment their physical prowess with psionic powers. They have 3/4 BAB, d8 hit die, and fewer bonus feats, but totally make up for it with powers. PsyWars get a bunch of good archery powers in Complete Psionic. PsyWars are also wisdom based, and benefit from Zen Archery.

Then there's the Soulbow. It's a prestige class for the Soulknife, a psionic class that can produce a blade of pure thought and emotion called a mindblade. The Soulbow, predictably, gains the ability to make mind arrows in a similar fashion. They get 3/4 BAB, the ability to add Wisdom to damage with their mind arrows, free magic arrows (mind arrows), bonus feats from a short list (including Zen Archery), and the ability to charge up their mind arrows for extra damage. It's a good archery class, but you have to wait for it, and the soulknife base class is mediocre at best.

There's also the Psionic Shot line of feats from the XPH. Psionic Shot adds +4d6 to a single ranged attack, when you expend psionic focus. The Greater version adds more damage, and the other feats add other special effects. Being psionically focused is a state of mind that any psionic creature can attain by making a concentration check as a full round action, and lasts until you expend it or fall unconscious/asleep (you can become psionic by taking a level in a psionic class or the Wild Talent feat). It works out so that feat which require you to expend focus can be used roughly once per fight.And some one is going to come in and talk about how Tome of Battle is the best book ever and you should use X ToB class instead of whatever you were using, etc.

It would be nice if you actually read the book before forming your opinion. Only one of the Tome Of Battle classes is even proficient in ranged weapons. ToB is 99.99% melee fight'n.
archerpwr
12-31-07, 02:30 AM You can try to get homebrew classes approved *cough Hunter cough*

Anyway, you also get multiple shops because of the high BAB like normal. PHII has a couple worthwhile archery feats I think and everyone is always on about Greater Manyshot from Expanded Psionics Handbook. And some one is going to come in and talk about how Tome of Battle is the best book ever and you should use X ToB class instead of whatever you were using, etc.

And almost all non Order of the Bow Initiate PrCs are based around the Scout or Ranger.

Nice challenge on the ToB. Here's what I've got:
This
Cartigan
12-31-07, 08:03 AM Of Battle classes is even proficient in ranged weapons. ToB is 99.99% melee fight'n.
Which hasn't stopped people from citing it as the best choice before.
Necromas
12-31-07, 12:09 PM Soulbows (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060403a&page=2) make good archers too. It's pretty much the same as a soulknife, but an archer that gets wis to damage, and they get bonus archery feats every other level.
snakeman830
12-31-07, 12:15 PM -stuff-

Psionic Shot adds 2D6, not 4D6. Greater adds 4D6, though.

Soulbow is a good PrC, and people wrongly assume you need anything more than a 2-level dip into Soulknife (which isn't as bad as going in further, but yeah, the class sucks) to get into it. The bonus archery feats at every other level make it excellent for an archer. Remember, they can still use a regular bow if so desired. They use the normal bow and keep their Mind Arrows for making AoO's (which they gain the ability to do at Soulbow 4) and melee attacks. Grabbing Zen Archery and a Monk's belt means your Wisdom is practically the only stat you need as it adds to your attack, damage, and AC.

Soulbow's ability with infinite ammo should never be overlooked. Sure, arrows are not usually something you're worried about because they're so cheap. But if ou're away from town longer than you expected, the average archer may find themselves running low.

Neat Trick:
When you start adding weapon qualities on your mind arrows, you have a short list to choose from. Many people will probably choose distance, seeking, or one of the energy add-ons for the first +1 quality (returning is absolutely useless on them becuase the arrows don't last long enough to return anyway).

I prefer Lucky. Once per day, a lucky weapon can re-roll a failed attack roll. Normally, this would be an "okay, that's nice" ability. However, because it is the arrows you are producing that have the quality, the property functions once per day on each arrow. Every time you miss on the attack roll, you can re-roll that attack. Priceless!
Ollee64
01-01-08, 01:36 PM Neat Trick:
When you start adding weapon qualities on your mind arrows, you have a short list to choose from. Many people will probably choose distance, seeking, or one of the energy add-ons for the first +1 quality (returning is absolutely useless on them becuase the arrows don't last long enough to return anyway).

I prefer Lucky. Once per day, a lucky weapon can re-roll a failed attack roll. Normally, this would be an "okay, that's nice" ability. However, because it is the arrows you are producing that have the quality, the property functions once per day on each arrow. Every time you miss on the attack roll, you can re-roll that attack. Priceless!

My DM's are rather good at sniffing out broken things, and this would be changed in notime due to its broken-ish-ness.......i mean there are alot more things that are broken, but still....it is a bit...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ollee64 12-30-07, 08:34 PM	Ive been playing for somewhere over a year and a half, but i have some questions. I know the basics and have a good feel for most rules, except ive never played an archer. Im planning one at the moment as a backup character, but i have some questions: 1. Is the only way to get extra shots when using a bow through feats? 2. I have CW and it has some other stuff, but are there any other books that have some neat Archery Classes, PrC's or feats? Any help is appreciated, Thanks -Me.
Cartigan 12-30-07, 08:48 PM	You can try to get homebrew classes approved cough Hunter cough Anyway, you also get multiple shops because of the high BAB like normal. PHII has a couple worthwhile archery feats I think and everyone is always on about Greater Manyshot from Expanded Psionics Handbook. And some one is going to come in and talk about how Tome of Battle is the best book ever and you should use X ToB class instead of whatever you were using, etc. And almost all non Order of the Bow Initiate PrCs are based around the Scout or Ranger.
Talisman 12-30-07, 08:59 PM	You can try to get homebrew classes approved cough Hunter cough Seconded. It's actually quite a good class. Also, if your GM is homebrew-tolerant, go to the top of the page and search this forum (and the Feats one) for "archer," "bow," "arrow," etc. Lots of creative people here.
Kapalen 12-30-07, 09:17 PM	Ive been playing for somewhere over a year and a half, but i have some questions. I know the basics and have a good feel for most rules, except ive never played an archer. Im planning one at the moment as a backup character, but i have some questions: 1. Is the only way to get extra shots when using a bow through feats? 2. I have CW and it has some other stuff, but are there any other books that have some neat Archery Classes, PrC's or feats? Any help is appreciated, Thanks -Me. 1. You get iterative attacks with a bow from Base attack bonus just like with a sword. 2. As mentioned Greater Manyshot from Expanded Psionics handbook is pretty cool, importantly it meshes well with the scout class' skirmish which if you take the feat Swift Hunter(I think it's called) in complete scoundrel meshes well with the ranger class, and is sort of a quasi-official ranger fix feat. Or you could take some fighter and get all the cool feats that way. Order of the bow Initiate from CW is usually considered pretty crappy because it takes a standard action, especially compared to skirmish, though it may be a good idea to take a couple of levels to get close-combat shot if you intend to be in melee range.
Ollee64 12-30-07, 10:23 PM	thanks so far... so my understanding of rapidshot so far http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#rapidShot from the srd there is that it gives the same bonus two-weapon fighting feat does, giving another attack at a -2 to attack bonus...am i rite?
dman11235 12-30-07, 10:23 PM	Or if you might possibly be in melee range and won't have Arrow Mind up. You never actually said wqhere those things are by the way, Scout is in CAdv, and Swift Hunter is in CScondrel. Good build is ranger 17 or 16, scout 3 or 4.
Stardust 12-30-07, 10:32 PM	Don't forget spells like haste, in 3.5 it affects pretty much the whole party, so if you full attack you can get an extra shot in from that. Feasibly at level 6 you could 4 shots if you had full BAB - 2 iterative attacks, 1 from rapid shot (which you should have as an archer) and one from haste. Not too shabby.
JaronK 12-30-07, 11:45 PM	Races of Stone has the Cragtop Archer, which would be worthwhile for a long range sniper (and by long range, I'm talking 2+ miles per shot). At that point, you need a level of Binder (Tome of Magic) with Improved Binding to bind Malphas, just to be able to see a target that far away. Then you'll want a nice Brilliant Energy Dragonbone Composite Greatbow of Distance +1 (a +7 weapon, in total, with a base range increment of around 300 feet). Use your Malphas bird to spot and shoot your enemies from outside the dungeon, whee! JaronK
archerpwr 12-31-07, 02:11 AM	Depending on what books you have available, here's some solid archery builds I've cooked up. Ranger 14/ Scout 4/ Stalker of kharash 2 Strongheart halfling scout 1/ ranger 6/ Stalker of kharash 2/ scout +3/ ranger +8 Feats: 1) PBS, Precise 3) ancestral relic 6) favored of the companions 9) nemesis(evil) 12) greater manyshot Scout 4) Swift hunter 15 Improved Skirmish 18) darkstalker Varients assumed: urban companion (for alertness), arcane hunter. Really matures at level 12. That one is IMO the ideal striker for a short range good aligned game. I haven't made one of these I've been satisfied with yet. Here are some threads where I've analyized the weakness of this style: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=959892 http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=863508
InkBlot 12-31-07, 02:21 AM	Malphas's birds still have to take the time to fly somewhere if you want to use the ability to see through their eyes to line up long-distance snipes like that. A better idea would be to take two or three levels of Ardent with the fate mantle, and pick up the clairvoyant sense power. Clairvoyant sense is a psionic power from the Expanded Psionics Handbook (XPH), which lets you see/hear from any point in space you know of (no range limit), including "3 miles due east, about 100 feet over above that castle." The Expanded Psionics Handbook, despite the name, is the basic psionics book for D&D 3.5. Ardent is a Wisdom-based psionic class with 3/4 BAB, plenty of power points, but only a few powers known. Ardents are from Complete Psionic, which is the worst of the Complete X series but still has a few neat tricks. Ardents can make decent archers, especially with Zen Archery. There is no Ardent power list; Ardents compose their power lists by selecting mantles, which are short lists of themed powers coupled with a neat special ability (like a Cleric's domain). Every few levels they get a new mantle. Flavorwise, Ardents use develop their psychic powers in order to better embody their personal philosophy (and they must pick their mantles to match that philosophy). There's also the Psychic Warrior, from the XPH. They're like Fighters, but they get augment their physical prowess with psionic powers. They have 3/4 BAB, d8 hit die, and fewer bonus feats, but totally make up for it with powers. PsyWars get a bunch of good archery powers in Complete Psionic. PsyWars are also wisdom based, and benefit from Zen Archery. Then there's the Soulbow. It's a prestige class for the Soulknife, a psionic class that can produce a blade of pure thought and emotion called a mindblade. The Soulbow, predictably, gains the ability to make mind arrows in a similar fashion. They get 3/4 BAB, the ability to add Wisdom to damage with their mind arrows, free magic arrows (mind arrows), bonus feats from a short list (including Zen Archery), and the ability to charge up their mind arrows for extra damage. It's a good archery class, but you have to wait for it, and the soulknife base class is mediocre at best. There's also the Psionic Shot line of feats from the XPH. Psionic Shot adds +4d6 to a single ranged attack, when you expend psionic focus. The Greater version adds more damage, and the other feats add other special effects. Being psionically focused is a state of mind that any psionic creature can attain by making a concentration check as a full round action, and lasts until you expend it or fall unconscious/asleep (you can become psionic by taking a level in a psionic class or the Wild Talent feat). It works out so that feat which require you to expend focus can be used roughly once per fight.And some one is going to come in and talk about how Tome of Battle is the best book ever and you should use X ToB class instead of whatever you were using, etc. It would be nice if you actually read the book before forming your opinion. Only one of the Tome Of Battle classes is even proficient in ranged weapons. ToB is 99.99% melee fight'n.
archerpwr 12-31-07, 02:30 AM	You can try to get homebrew classes approved cough Hunter cough Anyway, you also get multiple shops because of the high BAB like normal. PHII has a couple worthwhile archery feats I think and everyone is always on about Greater Manyshot from Expanded Psionics Handbook. And some one is going to come in and talk about how Tome of Battle is the best book ever and you should use X ToB class instead of whatever you were using, etc. And almost all non Order of the Bow Initiate PrCs are based around the Scout or Ranger. Nice challenge on the ToB. Here's what I've got: This
Cartigan 12-31-07, 08:03 AM	Of Battle classes is even proficient in ranged weapons. ToB is 99.99% melee fight'n. Which hasn't stopped people from citing it as the best choice before.
Necromas 12-31-07, 12:09 PM	Soulbows (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060403a&page=2) make good archers too. It's pretty much the same as a soulknife, but an archer that gets wis to damage, and they get bonus archery feats every other level.
snakeman830 12-31-07, 12:15 PM	-stuff- Psionic Shot adds 2D6, not 4D6. Greater adds 4D6, though. Soulbow is a good PrC, and people wrongly assume you need anything more than a 2-level dip into Soulknife (which isn't as bad as going in further, but yeah, the class sucks) to get into it. The bonus archery feats at every other level make it excellent for an archer. Remember, they can still use a regular bow if so desired. They use the normal bow and keep their Mind Arrows for making AoO's (which they gain the ability to do at Soulbow 4) and melee attacks. Grabbing Zen Archery and a Monk's belt means your Wisdom is practically the only stat you need as it adds to your attack, damage, and AC. Soulbow's ability with infinite ammo should never be overlooked. Sure, arrows are not usually something you're worried about because they're so cheap. But if ou're away from town longer than you expected, the average archer may find themselves running low. Neat Trick: When you start adding weapon qualities on your mind arrows, you have a short list to choose from. Many people will probably choose distance, seeking, or one of the energy add-ons for the first +1 quality (returning is absolutely useless on them becuase the arrows don't last long enough to return anyway). I prefer Lucky. Once per day, a lucky weapon can re-roll a failed attack roll. Normally, this would be an "okay, that's nice" ability. However, because it is the arrows you are producing that have the quality, the property functions once per day on each arrow. Every time you miss on the attack roll, you can re-roll that attack. Priceless!
Ollee64 01-01-08, 01:36 PM	Neat Trick: When you start adding weapon qualities on your mind arrows, you have a short list to choose from. Many people will probably choose distance, seeking, or one of the energy add-ons for the first +1 quality (returning is absolutely useless on them becuase the arrows don't last long enough to return anyway). I prefer Lucky. Once per day, a lucky weapon can re-roll a failed attack roll. Normally, this would be an "okay, that's nice" ability. However, because it is the arrows you are producing that have the quality, the property functions once per day on each arrow. Every time you miss on the attack roll, you can re-roll that attack. Priceless! My DM's are rather good at sniffing out broken things, and this would be changed in notime due to its broken-ish-ness.......i mean there are alot more things that are broken, but still....it is a bit...