Archery question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Archery question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
seekanddestroy
02-16-08, 06:25 PM I think in 3.0 the Ootbi had a class feat called close quarter combat. That let you use a bow like a melee weapon. That probaly isn't exactly what it was but is their anything like that in 3.5? The idea of using a bow in close quarters is cool.
Sakaki22
02-16-08, 06:28 PM There's a few exotic bows that can be used as melee weapons, but I can't remember the source.
seekanddestroy
02-16-08, 06:33 PM I am sorry, I meant using a bow without provoking an attack of opp.
Nathreet
02-16-08, 06:34 PM 5' step backwards. Fire.
dman11235
02-16-08, 06:37 PM The 3.5 OotBI does have that ability, but the rest of the class sucks, save for the 10th level ability (double ranged precision attacks range).
TheEndIsNear
02-16-08, 06:38 PM There is the Elven craft bow:

Short Bow= Club in melee
Long Bow= Quater staff

Also, OOTBI?

what is that?

thanks

D-End

EDIT: Order Of The Bow Initiate, right?

EDIT2: He was in a 3.0 book? What book?, i'd like to see the differences...

Thanks
seekanddestroy
02-16-08, 06:47 PM yeah I think on level 6 of Ootbi it was called close combat. Has anyone playing 3.5 let a character use a 3.0 Prc?
dawnbringer
02-16-08, 06:48 PM I though close quarters combat is still 3.5? In the complete warrior isnt it?
seekanddestroy
02-16-08, 06:59 PM I love the 3.0 version didn't see it as overpowering. I would maybe like to use the 3.0 in a 3.5 game. Is there any problem with that?:D
StevenO
02-16-08, 07:00 PM At level TWO the 3.5 Order of the Bow Initiate (OotBI) found in the Complete Warrior gains the ability to make ranged attacks without provoking AoO. This isn't using the bow as a melee weapon (you don't threaten with it) but does enable you to make ranged attacks without getting smacked by an opponent who threatens you.

As for the OotBI being a terrible class I don't thing getting Greater Weapon Focus at 4th level is so horrible when normally only a high level fighter can get that feat.
seekanddestroy
02-16-08, 07:02 PM I hate the 3.5 but I would like to play a 3.0 one. Could that be an easy house rule?
Shadowhowler
02-16-08, 08:55 PM I hate the 3.5 but I would like to play a 3.0 one. Could that be an easy house rule?

All depends on your DM. Anything is possible.
dman11235
02-16-08, 10:07 PM Go right ahead and ask your DM.

@StevenO: the only good things an OotBI from CW gets you is the Close Quaters shot, GWF, and the increased range. The primary class feature makes you worse when you use it. And GWF can be taken by a level 8 fighter, and is only a +1. Not that big right there. If it was Wp. Specialization it would be a bit better.
Goldengiff
02-18-08, 12:07 AM Go right ahead and ask your DM.

@StevenO: the only good things an OotBI from CW gets you is the Close Quaters shot, GWF, and the increased range. The primary class feature makes you worse when you use it. And GWF can be taken by a level 8 fighter, and is only a +1. Not that big right there. If it was Wp. Specialization it would be a bit better.

Hey dman11235, I may be overlooking something but the way my math came out for the scaling of Ranged Precision versus the attacks you get from taking a full attack action w/ rapid shot, it starts out being worse for Ranged Precision (2d8 up to level 8 vs 3 attacks for 1d8 each), but as you take more levels in OotBI Ranged Precision becomes more effective overtaking full attack actions w/ rapid fire at 13th level. Did i miss something?
dman11235
02-18-08, 12:16 AM ??? Yeah, you missed that you need to take a separate standard action for Ranged Precision. With manyshot, it's almost the same number of d8s, and then you get all the bonuses for each arrow on top of that (wounding, collision, strength, etc). And manyshot has fewer arrows (and a greater chance to do nothing) than Rapid shot. You could cheeze up some manyshot+true strike for even more pain than RP. I wish I had the maths that somebody did to prove it. Also, rapid shot does have the problem with the later itteratives missing, but there is the splitting enchantment, and the fact that you get more arrows that DO hit, and thus more of your weapon enchantments (like wounding).
Goldengiff
02-18-08, 12:32 AM Manyshot requires a standard action so it grants fewer attacks than rapid shot, but i see what you mean with weapon enchantments making the extra 1d8 from RP not that big a deal.

I was looking at the enchants you recomended, it looked like wounding was the most potent, but do you enchant the arrows themselves with wounding or the bow?
dman11235
02-18-08, 12:39 AM The bow. Enchanting arrows is expensive since they get destroyed when they hit. My suggestiong is +1 force, collision, wounding, splitting. Wounding and collision can be traded for other things like body feeding and vampiric. Also: stay away for +d6 energy enchantments. things like wounding are just better. In fact, wounding does more damage per bonus.
Goldengiff
02-18-08, 12:48 AM Where are the descriptions for those enhancments? I looked in DMG and Magic Item Compendium and didn't see them.
dman11235
02-18-08, 12:56 AM ...I only used DMG and MiC for them, save for Splitting, which is in CoR.
Goldengiff
02-18-08, 02:08 AM What is CoR? or could you list what splitting does here for me :D

Also, it looks like Wounding is melee-only enhancment. Is there an exemption for bows?
Argaud
02-18-08, 04:09 AM What is CoR? or could you list what splitting does here for me :D

Also, it looks like Wounding is melee-only enhancment. Is there an exemption for bows?
Champions of Ruin

No, no exceptions. Bows can't be wounding.
dman11235
02-18-08, 11:42 AM Basically splitting doubles your damage. That's the extent of what I can say.

Actually, it does not say in the description of wounding that it can only be placed on a melee weapon. And text trumps table. Every other enhancement that can only be specifically put on melee or ranged or slashing/piercing/bludgeoning explicitly says so in the description. So unless something comes out that changes the description, I'm playing ranged can have it.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
seekanddestroy 02-16-08, 06:25 PM	I think in 3.0 the Ootbi had a class feat called close quarter combat. That let you use a bow like a melee weapon. That probaly isn't exactly what it was but is their anything like that in 3.5? The idea of using a bow in close quarters is cool.
Sakaki22 02-16-08, 06:28 PM	There's a few exotic bows that can be used as melee weapons, but I can't remember the source.
seekanddestroy 02-16-08, 06:33 PM	I am sorry, I meant using a bow without provoking an attack of opp.
Nathreet 02-16-08, 06:34 PM	5' step backwards. Fire.
dman11235 02-16-08, 06:37 PM	The 3.5 OotBI does have that ability, but the rest of the class sucks, save for the 10th level ability (double ranged precision attacks range).
TheEndIsNear 02-16-08, 06:38 PM	There is the Elven craft bow: Short Bow= Club in melee Long Bow= Quater staff Also, OOTBI? what is that? thanks D-End EDIT: Order Of The Bow Initiate, right? EDIT2: He was in a 3.0 book? What book?, i'd like to see the differences... Thanks
seekanddestroy 02-16-08, 06:47 PM	yeah I think on level 6 of Ootbi it was called close combat. Has anyone playing 3.5 let a character use a 3.0 Prc?
dawnbringer 02-16-08, 06:48 PM	I though close quarters combat is still 3.5? In the complete warrior isnt it?
seekanddestroy 02-16-08, 06:59 PM	I love the 3.0 version didn't see it as overpowering. I would maybe like to use the 3.0 in a 3.5 game. Is there any problem with that?:D
StevenO 02-16-08, 07:00 PM	At level TWO the 3.5 Order of the Bow Initiate (OotBI) found in the Complete Warrior gains the ability to make ranged attacks without provoking AoO. This isn't using the bow as a melee weapon (you don't threaten with it) but does enable you to make ranged attacks without getting smacked by an opponent who threatens you. As for the OotBI being a terrible class I don't thing getting Greater Weapon Focus at 4th level is so horrible when normally only a high level fighter can get that feat.
seekanddestroy 02-16-08, 07:02 PM	I hate the 3.5 but I would like to play a 3.0 one. Could that be an easy house rule?
Shadowhowler 02-16-08, 08:55 PM	I hate the 3.5 but I would like to play a 3.0 one. Could that be an easy house rule? All depends on your DM. Anything is possible.
dman11235 02-16-08, 10:07 PM	Go right ahead and ask your DM. @StevenO: the only good things an OotBI from CW gets you is the Close Quaters shot, GWF, and the increased range. The primary class feature makes you worse when you use it. And GWF can be taken by a level 8 fighter, and is only a +1. Not that big right there. If it was Wp. Specialization it would be a bit better.
Goldengiff 02-18-08, 12:07 AM	Go right ahead and ask your DM. @StevenO: the only good things an OotBI from CW gets you is the Close Quaters shot, GWF, and the increased range. The primary class feature makes you worse when you use it. And GWF can be taken by a level 8 fighter, and is only a +1. Not that big right there. If it was Wp. Specialization it would be a bit better. Hey dman11235, I may be overlooking something but the way my math came out for the scaling of Ranged Precision versus the attacks you get from taking a full attack action w/ rapid shot, it starts out being worse for Ranged Precision (2d8 up to level 8 vs 3 attacks for 1d8 each), but as you take more levels in OotBI Ranged Precision becomes more effective overtaking full attack actions w/ rapid fire at 13th level. Did i miss something?
dman11235 02-18-08, 12:16 AM	??? Yeah, you missed that you need to take a separate standard action for Ranged Precision. With manyshot, it's almost the same number of d8s, and then you get all the bonuses for each arrow on top of that (wounding, collision, strength, etc). And manyshot has fewer arrows (and a greater chance to do nothing) than Rapid shot. You could cheeze up some manyshot+true strike for even more pain than RP. I wish I had the maths that somebody did to prove it. Also, rapid shot does have the problem with the later itteratives missing, but there is the splitting enchantment, and the fact that you get more arrows that DO hit, and thus more of your weapon enchantments (like wounding).
Goldengiff 02-18-08, 12:32 AM	Manyshot requires a standard action so it grants fewer attacks than rapid shot, but i see what you mean with weapon enchantments making the extra 1d8 from RP not that big a deal. I was looking at the enchants you recomended, it looked like wounding was the most potent, but do you enchant the arrows themselves with wounding or the bow?
dman11235 02-18-08, 12:39 AM	The bow. Enchanting arrows is expensive since they get destroyed when they hit. My suggestiong is +1 force, collision, wounding, splitting. Wounding and collision can be traded for other things like body feeding and vampiric. Also: stay away for +d6 energy enchantments. things like wounding are just better. In fact, wounding does more damage per bonus.
Goldengiff 02-18-08, 12:48 AM	Where are the descriptions for those enhancments? I looked in DMG and Magic Item Compendium and didn't see them.
dman11235 02-18-08, 12:56 AM	...I only used DMG and MiC for them, save for Splitting, which is in CoR.
Goldengiff 02-18-08, 02:08 AM	What is CoR? or could you list what splitting does here for me :D Also, it looks like Wounding is melee-only enhancment. Is there an exemption for bows?
Argaud 02-18-08, 04:09 AM	What is CoR? or could you list what splitting does here for me :D Also, it looks like Wounding is melee-only enhancment. Is there an exemption for bows? Champions of Ruin No, no exceptions. Bows can't be wounding.
dman11235 02-18-08, 11:42 AM	Basically splitting doubles your damage. That's the extent of what I can say. Actually, it does not say in the description of wounding that it can only be placed on a melee weapon. And text trumps table. Every other enhancement that can only be specifically put on melee or ranged or slashing/piercing/bludgeoning explicitly says so in the description. So unless something comes out that changes the description, I'm playing ranged can have it.