Archivist and domain spells [Archive] - Wizards Community

Archivist and domain spells [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
bloodrever
05-25-06, 04:08 PM It says in the spell section of the archivist that he can learn any divine spell off of a scroll. I know this means he can get Druid, Ranger, and Paladin spells does this also mean that he can get the domain spells that do not show up on any of the divine spell list? Like if a wizard only spell is also in a domains spell list does this mean that a archivist can learn it? Same thing for the spells that only show up on one domains spell list.
Witch
05-25-06, 04:49 PM It says in the spell section of the archivist that he can learn any divine spell off of a scroll. I know this means he can get Druid, Ranger, and Paladin spells does this also mean that he can get the domain spells that do not show up on any of the divine spell list? Like if a wizard only spell is also in a domains spell list does this mean that a archivist can learn it? Same thing for the spells that only show up on one domains spell list.
If he finds a divine scroll of it, yes.
Deper
05-25-06, 09:10 PM Good luck finding the divine scroll of it.
Thomas_Covenant
05-25-06, 10:16 PM The typical workaround is to find another divine caster, and make a scroll jointly.
Then use that scroll as a source for scribing into your prayer book.

Since archivists get scribe scroll at 1st level, any friendly divine caster is a source of spells.

(Check out the Adept spell list [DMG, NPC class] in particular.)

The reference:Prerequisites: Certain requirements must be met in order for a character to create a magic item. These include feats, spells, and miscellaneous requirements such as level, alignment, and race or kind. The prerequisites for creation of an item are given immediately following the item’s caster level.
A spell prerequisite may be provided by a character who has prepared the spell (or who knows the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard), or through the use of a spell completion or spell trigger magic item or a spell-like ability that produces the desired spell effect. For each day that passes in the creation process, the creator must expend one spell completion item or one charge from a spell trigger item if either of those objects is used to supply a prerequisite.
It is possible for more than one character to cooperate in the creation of an item, with each participant providing one or more of the prerequisites. In some cases, cooperation may even be necessary.
Krug_the_smasher
05-25-06, 10:24 PM Well, id say yes, since it is still a divine spell. So, this means Anyspell is a go for Archivists. :D I'm assuming this is what you wanted.
Deper
05-25-06, 10:35 PM Well, id say yes, since it is still a divine spell. So, this means Anyspell is a go for Archivists. :D I'm assuming this is what you wanted.

Anyspell allows you to add an arcane spell into your domain slot, which the archivist doesn't have. Anyspell also does not make the arcane spell divine, and does not make it possible to write a divine scroll of the spell. So that trick doesn't work. At all.

A simple point to remember the basic point that clerics aren't likely to simply hand out domain spells to anyone who asks. That and you're going to have to work with some pretty varied and unpleasent (ie evil) groups to get the best spells.
runestar
05-25-06, 10:37 PM aye, you get scribe scroll as a bonus feat, so all you need to do is to track down a divine spellcaster capable of casting the spell you are looking for, and getting him to provide the spellcasting while you scribe the scroll yourself. :)
Deper
05-25-06, 10:48 PM aye, you get scribe scroll as a bonus feat, so all you need to do is to track down a divine spellcaster capable of casting the spell you are looking for, and getting him to provide the spellcasting while you scribe the scroll yourself. :)

Oh, the fun involved in getting those spells.

Magic Missle (Force Domain) - Provided only by a CE god of Madness and Entropy.

Anyone have a list of where the other important spells have to come from. They all aren't from good deities, and most gods wouldn't look that well on handing domain spells (which are very specific to their clerics) to non-worshippers. Core flavour points out that archivists aren't appreciated by clerics of non-knowledge gods.

Domain spells should be available, but they should be made fairly difficult to find. Clerics shouldn't be willing to hand out spells to non-believers who subvert the gods.
Thomas_Covenant
05-26-06, 12:35 AM Anyone have a list of where the other important spells have to come from. They all aren't from good deities, and most gods wouldn't look that well on handing domain spells (which are very specific to their clerics) to non-worshippers. Core flavour points out that archivists aren't appreciated by clerics of non-knowledge gods.

Domain spells should be available, but they should be made fairly difficult to find. Clerics shouldn't be willing to hand out spells to non-believers who subvert the gods.Most of the Domains are in the PHB and back of Spell Compendium, with a few exceptions.
"important" is highly subjective, depends too much.

Note other list (Paladin, Blackguard, Ranger from CORE) have spells that are way too low a level (or unique) and hence abusable.

Knowledge and Magic gods, and maybe Wealth/Greed might be easy, the others require creativity, or roleplaying/quests.

Seriously, though....befriend an Adept.Adept Spell List
Adepts choose their spells from the following list.
0 Level: create water, cure minor wounds, detect magic, ghost sound, guidance, light, mending, purify food and drink, read magic, touch of fatigue.
1st Level: bless, burning hands, cause fear, command, comprehend languages, cure light wounds, detect chaos, detect evil, detect good, detect law, endure elements, obscuring mist, protection from chaos, protection from evil, protection from good, protection from law, sleep.
2nd Level: aid, animal trance, bear’s endurance, bull’s strength, cat’s grace, cure moderate wounds, darkness, delay poison, invisibility, mirror image, resist energy, scorching ray, see invisibility, web.
3rd Level: animate dead, bestow curse, contagion, continual flame, cure serious wounds, daylight, deeper darkness, lightning bolt, neutralize poison, remove curse, remove disease, tongues.
4th Level: cure critical wounds, minor creation, polymorph, restoration, stoneskin, wall of fire.
5th Level: baleful polymorph, break enchantment, commune, heal, major creation, raise dead, true seeing, wall of stone.
Witch
05-26-06, 04:41 AM Polymorphing and Healing as lower level spells than both wizard and cleric, respectively. I like it.
Thomas_Covenant
05-26-06, 10:21 AM Polymorphing and Healing as lower level spells than both wizard and cleric, respectively. I like it.The Heal spell at 5th is quite nice, yes.
Polymorph at all is worth a full quest.

An Archivist typically has More spell slots than an equal level Wizard.
Plus Medium armor, better saves and hps....
If he can pick up the right spells (easier said than done) he's a beast.
Just the cleric base list, the druid, a few domains, and above...what can't he do?

If he can dumpster-dive for the Paladin/ Blackguard/ Ranger/ and such spells...

In game play, though....a DM who drags his feet on spell access could result in an Archivist who's far and away worse than a cleric, it's quite campaign-dependent.
Witch
05-26-06, 10:33 AM I'm DMing an Archivist, but he isn't abusing it, so I don't complain. I've even given him a spellbook with lowlevel druid spells.
Deper
05-26-06, 10:43 AM I find it amazing how many Paladins are willing to hand over spells that they recieve only after years of effort and work to prove themselves to their god by following an extremely strick code, to any Tom, Dick or Harry who walks in off the street and asks for it. Not even the clerics get certain spells, so why would a Paladin give them to someone who can't use them if they aren't a paladin, or who can use it without adhereing to a Paladin code. I mean, besides metagaming of course.

Same with those uber friendly blackguards who are willing to sit down and help people who ask nicely.
Deper
05-26-06, 10:51 AM The Heal spell at 5th is quite nice, yes.
Polymorph at all is worth a full quest.

A character who is willing to go on a quest to find that kind of stuff has earned it. If a wizard spent time questing (not studying) to find a 2nd level fireball, why not give it to the character. It isn't that broken, especially in the long run.

An Archivist typically has More spell slots than an equal level Wizard.
Plus Medium armor, better saves and hps....

Don't forget he suffers from MAD.

If he can pick up the right spells (easier said than done) he's a beast.

Agreed, but as you pointed out getting spells is quite difficult. Clerics hate him.

Just the cleric base list, the druid, a few domains, and above...what can't he do?

Love? The trick is getting those spells, and remembering that there is nothing that prevents a wizard from researching arcane versions of divine spells for himself.

If he can dumpster-dive for the Paladin/ Blackguard/ Ranger/ and such spells...

I don't see Paladins (or blackguards for that matter) as being very willing to hand around those uber rare spells, even to allies if they aren't already paladins.

In game play, though....a DM who drags his feet on spell access could result in an Archivist who's far and away worse than a cleric, it's quite campaign-dependent.

Agreed. Most of this criticism comes from not actually seeing the class in play. They assume a world in which the DM doesn't exist and videogame like purchasing ability.
Thomas_Covenant
05-26-06, 01:54 PM Guys, I Said "If" twice, I should have bolded it, I agree, and ended with "In game play, though...."
It can be a straight FORCE. Out of the box it is likely worse than cleric or wizard.
Don't forget he suffers from MAD.
Here I disagree. I assumed it was like the favored soul, and ignored the class.
Int governs saves and the max level you can cast.
Wis governs bonus spells, you can set it to 12, or ignore completely.
At Wis 12, he will have more spells than an Int 18 Wizard, just his selection sucks to start.
Agreed. Most of this criticism comes from not actually seeing the class in play. They assume a world in which the DM doesn't exist and videogame like purchasing ability.Sure but an intense, driven, spell-seeking archivist can be a beast at 10th level.
Or he can be in every way worse than the party cleric, except skill points.
(A cleric can get scribe scroll and another feat from domains, so not even that.)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
bloodrever 05-25-06, 04:08 PM	It says in the spell section of the archivist that he can learn any divine spell off of a scroll. I know this means he can get Druid, Ranger, and Paladin spells does this also mean that he can get the domain spells that do not show up on any of the divine spell list? Like if a wizard only spell is also in a domains spell list does this mean that a archivist can learn it? Same thing for the spells that only show up on one domains spell list.
Witch 05-25-06, 04:49 PM	It says in the spell section of the archivist that he can learn any divine spell off of a scroll. I know this means he can get Druid, Ranger, and Paladin spells does this also mean that he can get the domain spells that do not show up on any of the divine spell list? Like if a wizard only spell is also in a domains spell list does this mean that a archivist can learn it? Same thing for the spells that only show up on one domains spell list. If he finds a divine scroll of it, yes.
Deper 05-25-06, 09:10 PM	Good luck finding the divine scroll of it.
Thomas_Covenant 05-25-06, 10:16 PM	The typical workaround is to find another divine caster, and make a scroll jointly. Then use that scroll as a source for scribing into your prayer book. Since archivists get scribe scroll at 1st level, any friendly divine caster is a source of spells. (Check out the Adept spell list [DMG, NPC class] in particular.) The reference:Prerequisites: Certain requirements must be met in order for a character to create a magic item. These include feats, spells, and miscellaneous requirements such as level, alignment, and race or kind. The prerequisites for creation of an item are given immediately following the item’s caster level. A spell prerequisite may be provided by a character who has prepared the spell (or who knows the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard), or through the use of a spell completion or spell trigger magic item or a spell-like ability that produces the desired spell effect. For each day that passes in the creation process, the creator must expend one spell completion item or one charge from a spell trigger item if either of those objects is used to supply a prerequisite. It is possible for more than one character to cooperate in the creation of an item, with each participant providing one or more of the prerequisites. In some cases, cooperation may even be necessary.
Krug_the_smasher 05-25-06, 10:24 PM	Well, id say yes, since it is still a divine spell. So, this means Anyspell is a go for Archivists. :D I'm assuming this is what you wanted.
Deper 05-25-06, 10:35 PM	Well, id say yes, since it is still a divine spell. So, this means Anyspell is a go for Archivists. :D I'm assuming this is what you wanted. Anyspell allows you to add an arcane spell into your domain slot, which the archivist doesn't have. Anyspell also does not make the arcane spell divine, and does not make it possible to write a divine scroll of the spell. So that trick doesn't work. At all. A simple point to remember the basic point that clerics aren't likely to simply hand out domain spells to anyone who asks. That and you're going to have to work with some pretty varied and unpleasent (ie evil) groups to get the best spells.
runestar 05-25-06, 10:37 PM	aye, you get scribe scroll as a bonus feat, so all you need to do is to track down a divine spellcaster capable of casting the spell you are looking for, and getting him to provide the spellcasting while you scribe the scroll yourself. :)
Deper 05-25-06, 10:48 PM	aye, you get scribe scroll as a bonus feat, so all you need to do is to track down a divine spellcaster capable of casting the spell you are looking for, and getting him to provide the spellcasting while you scribe the scroll yourself. :) Oh, the fun involved in getting those spells. Magic Missle (Force Domain) - Provided only by a CE god of Madness and Entropy. Anyone have a list of where the other important spells have to come from. They all aren't from good deities, and most gods wouldn't look that well on handing domain spells (which are very specific to their clerics) to non-worshippers. Core flavour points out that archivists aren't appreciated by clerics of non-knowledge gods. Domain spells should be available, but they should be made fairly difficult to find. Clerics shouldn't be willing to hand out spells to non-believers who subvert the gods.
Thomas_Covenant 05-26-06, 12:35 AM	Anyone have a list of where the other important spells have to come from. They all aren't from good deities, and most gods wouldn't look that well on handing domain spells (which are very specific to their clerics) to non-worshippers. Core flavour points out that archivists aren't appreciated by clerics of non-knowledge gods. Domain spells should be available, but they should be made fairly difficult to find. Clerics shouldn't be willing to hand out spells to non-believers who subvert the gods.Most of the Domains are in the PHB and back of Spell Compendium, with a few exceptions. "important" is highly subjective, depends too much. Note other list (Paladin, Blackguard, Ranger from CORE) have spells that are way too low a level (or unique) and hence abusable. Knowledge and Magic gods, and maybe Wealth/Greed might be easy, the others require creativity, or roleplaying/quests. Seriously, though....befriend an Adept.Adept Spell List Adepts choose their spells from the following list. 0 Level: create water, cure minor wounds, detect magic, ghost sound, guidance, light, mending, purify food and drink, read magic, touch of fatigue. 1st Level: bless, burning hands, cause fear, command, comprehend languages, cure light wounds, detect chaos, detect evil, detect good, detect law, endure elements, obscuring mist, protection from chaos, protection from evil, protection from good, protection from law, sleep. 2nd Level: aid, animal trance, bear’s endurance, bull’s strength, cat’s grace, cure moderate wounds, darkness, delay poison, invisibility, mirror image, resist energy, scorching ray, see invisibility, web. 3rd Level: animate dead, bestow curse, contagion, continual flame, cure serious wounds, daylight, deeper darkness, lightning bolt, neutralize poison, remove curse, remove disease, tongues. 4th Level: cure critical wounds, minor creation, polymorph, restoration, stoneskin, wall of fire. 5th Level: baleful polymorph, break enchantment, commune, heal, major creation, raise dead, true seeing, wall of stone.
Witch 05-26-06, 04:41 AM	Polymorphing and Healing as lower level spells than both wizard and cleric, respectively. I like it.
Thomas_Covenant 05-26-06, 10:21 AM	Polymorphing and Healing as lower level spells than both wizard and cleric, respectively. I like it.The Heal spell at 5th is quite nice, yes. Polymorph at all is worth a full quest. An Archivist typically has More spell slots than an equal level Wizard. Plus Medium armor, better saves and hps.... If he can pick up the right spells (easier said than done) he's a beast. Just the cleric base list, the druid, a few domains, and above...what can't he do? If he can dumpster-dive for the Paladin/ Blackguard/ Ranger/ and such spells... In game play, though....a DM who drags his feet on spell access could result in an Archivist who's far and away worse than a cleric, it's quite campaign-dependent.
Witch 05-26-06, 10:33 AM	I'm DMing an Archivist, but he isn't abusing it, so I don't complain. I've even given him a spellbook with lowlevel druid spells.
Deper 05-26-06, 10:43 AM	I find it amazing how many Paladins are willing to hand over spells that they recieve only after years of effort and work to prove themselves to their god by following an extremely strick code, to any Tom, Dick or Harry who walks in off the street and asks for it. Not even the clerics get certain spells, so why would a Paladin give them to someone who can't use them if they aren't a paladin, or who can use it without adhereing to a Paladin code. I mean, besides metagaming of course. Same with those uber friendly blackguards who are willing to sit down and help people who ask nicely.
Deper 05-26-06, 10:51 AM	The Heal spell at 5th is quite nice, yes. Polymorph at all is worth a full quest. A character who is willing to go on a quest to find that kind of stuff has earned it. If a wizard spent time questing (not studying) to find a 2nd level fireball, why not give it to the character. It isn't that broken, especially in the long run. An Archivist typically has More spell slots than an equal level Wizard. Plus Medium armor, better saves and hps.... Don't forget he suffers from MAD. If he can pick up the right spells (easier said than done) he's a beast. Agreed, but as you pointed out getting spells is quite difficult. Clerics hate him. Just the cleric base list, the druid, a few domains, and above...what can't he do? Love? The trick is getting those spells, and remembering that there is nothing that prevents a wizard from researching arcane versions of divine spells for himself. If he can dumpster-dive for the Paladin/ Blackguard/ Ranger/ and such spells... I don't see Paladins (or blackguards for that matter) as being very willing to hand around those uber rare spells, even to allies if they aren't already paladins. In game play, though....a DM who drags his feet on spell access could result in an Archivist who's far and away worse than a cleric, it's quite campaign-dependent. Agreed. Most of this criticism comes from not actually seeing the class in play. They assume a world in which the DM doesn't exist and videogame like purchasing ability.
Thomas_Covenant 05-26-06, 01:54 PM	Guys, I Said "If" twice, I should have bolded it, I agree, and ended with "In game play, though...." It can be a straight FORCE. Out of the box it is likely worse than cleric or wizard. Don't forget he suffers from MAD. Here I disagree. I assumed it was like the favored soul, and ignored the class. Int governs saves and the max level you can cast. Wis governs bonus spells, you can set it to 12, or ignore completely. At Wis 12, he will have more spells than an Int 18 Wizard, just his selection sucks to start. Agreed. Most of this criticism comes from not actually seeing the class in play. They assume a world in which the DM doesn't exist and videogame like purchasing ability.Sure but an intense, driven, spell-seeking archivist can be a beast at 10th level. Or he can be in every way worse than the party cleric, except skill points. (A cleric can get scribe scroll and another feat from domains, so not even that.)