Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sivis 09-06-06, 09:57 PM	The archivist (sp?) is the divine wizards, ok I get that BUT!!!!! If they can learn spells from divine scrolls cant they just learn spells from domains which many are arcane spells? Teleport for an example. Sry for my ignorance but isnt that a TAD overpowered?? p.s This is Sivis's cousion, my account is being mean!
runestar 09-06-06, 10:15 PM	Hardly, you still have to track down those scrolls(you can choose them naturally). Even with scribe scroll as a bonus feat, you still have to convince the divine spellcasters to agree to cast it for you while you scribe it, which can get very costly. Contrast this with a mage who benefits from feats like collegiate wizard, and can readily copy new spells into his spellbook at just 50*spell lv in gp fees.:) It's cumbersome and expensive, but the end result is well worth it. It's one of those classic "Ultimate power, ridiculous cost" scenarios.:)
Glimm 09-07-06, 12:31 AM	I prefer to limit the Archivist to the basic cleric spells plus all of the domains granted by the deity, but this is more of a flavor decision than one based on power balance. For an archivist without a deity, you could similarly limit one to just a few selected domains rather than granting access to all divine spells.
Pallin Rahl 09-07-06, 12:41 AM	Sure, Archivists can snag Domain spells and other non-cleric Divine Spells. Of course, they cast a tad less per day (compared to a Cleric), can't spontaneously cast cure spells, can't use divine metamagic (which many prefer to normal metamagic ...as they don't have turn undead, which leads us to...), they can't turn undead, have a wizard BAB, can't use shields, etc... ...sure, Archivists get some other nice things, are quite cool flavor-wise, and can give nice group buffs, but they're hardly unbalanced IMHO.
K 09-07-06, 12:50 AM	Look, the literal wording of Wizards lets them learn all the domain spells and cleric spells they want. The only thing that stops you is that even when confronted with the plaintext rules of Wizard spell learning, the vast majority of DMs won't let you learn Cleric spells off of Divine Scrolls. So having a class which is even more explicit in stating that it can learn off of any divine scroll doesn't change anything. You're still at the mercy of the DM who will either allow you to learn a given spell or not depending upon how they're feeling at the time. An Archivist is just a Wizard who can only learn a small section of the spells a real Wizard can. It's not impressive, and it's not new ground. --- Yes: Wizards really are allowed to learn a spell from any scroll that they have deciphered - and a scroll doesn't have to be on your spell list for you to decipher it (you need to decipher it before you know whether it's Arcane or Divine even).
runestar 09-07-06, 03:46 AM	Look, the literal wording of Wizards lets them learn all the domain spells and cleric spells they want. The only thing that stops you is that even when confronted with the plaintext rules of Wizard spell learning, the vast majority of DMs won't let you learn Cleric spells off of Divine Scrolls. That's a very flimsy argument. It's like saying that a cleric can be very weak if a dm rules that a lv17 cleric does not get any 9th lv spells, and must fill them with metamagicked versions of lower spells instead. Of course houserules will shift the power lv of a game - that's their purpose. Of course, they cast a tad less per day (compared to a Cleric), can't spontaneously cast cure spells, can't use divine metamagic (which many prefer to normal metamagic ...as they don't have turn undead, which leads us to...), they can't turn undead, have a wizard BAB, can't use shields, etc... True, it sucks to have your spellcasting governed by 2 mental stats...:( Poor bab is less of an issue when archivists can cast divine power, and mithral shields have no armour check penalties, so archivists can still use them even if they are not proficient. Some of those drawbacks aren't really drawbacks if you seriously think about it.:)
Pallin Rahl 09-07-06, 04:01 AM	Yeah, you know those wacky Archivists... the Optimization board is constantly aflutter with their gamebreaking power! :P The Archivist is a solid, flavorful class - but it's hardly overpowered or broken IMHO.
Silverthumb128 09-07-06, 08:07 AM	I prefer to limit the Archivist to the basic cleric spells plus all of the domains granted by the deity, but this is more of a flavor decision than one based on power balance. Some people prefer the flavor of RAW food. ;)
Bopple 09-07-06, 09:57 AM	Archivist can be the most powerful class, if DM allows every spell out there. Domain power? Turn undead? There are bunch of PrC's that lets you get them. No Problem. It can certainly be overpowered. But it's one of the easiest class for DM to control its power level. Practically, it poses no real problem.
RadicalTaoist 09-07-06, 11:37 AM	They can be hard to break...but if you know your spell cheese, they can be second only to Artificers in spell access absurdity.
Sivis 09-07-06, 05:40 PM	This is Sivis again, thanks my cuz is in shame for his stupidity.
Pallin Rahl 09-07-06, 05:58 PM	Quick off-topic note: Eberron is spelled with two "r"s. :) (check your sig) ;)