Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DarknessEternal 05-27-07, 05:28 AM	When an Archvist uses his Dark Knowledge, does he have to specifiy an effect, or does he apply all of his known uses with each attempt?
Lawkeeper 05-27-07, 08:55 AM	Several elements lead me to say you get all of the benefits with one check. To begin with, the first line of the ability tells that "Three times per day, an archivist can draw upon his expansive knowledge of monsters, granting his allies benefits against the creatures they face." So, with one activation you get several benefits, due to the use of the plural form. Then, a bit further it says you can only use dark knowledge against a given creature only once ; if you only got one of the benefits, why shouldn't you be able to get different benefits ? Further again is the use of the plural form for the duration of the effects. However, the knowledge check is one action - you also need to relay the information to your comrades (a free action normally) or to actually pronounce the dark secret to stun the enemy (and I'd say the enemy has to understand you)
Crimson_Concerto 05-27-07, 12:23 PM	Really? It doesn't read like that to me. To me it reads like you pick one of the benefits to use, and that's it. I'll reread it, one sec... Yeah, now that I re-read it, it doesn't seem very clear, but it still seems more likely to me that you're supposed to pick one of the effects you have access to. Nothing in the wording suggests one was or the other, and even that pluralization doesn't seem to read to me the way you seem to think it does. Sorry I can't be more helpful, but I guess that yeah, my vote goes for you picking one of the effects.
Lawkeeper 05-27-07, 02:36 PM	The most deciding factor is, according to me, the fact that you can only use DK once against any monster (in a given encounter, I suppose). I really don't see why puissance and tactics benefits couldn't both be awarded, be it with one check or two. However, I do see a problem with my interpretation, in that the Dread Secret is quite different in use from Tactics, Puissance, Foe and Foreknowledge : the latter all give you bonuses on various checks & abilities against all monster of a given race, while the former dazes or stuns any one monster. IMHO, DK should be split in two abilities, but that's a matter of house rules...
DarknessEternal 05-28-07, 01:05 PM	So I still remain as nebulous on this as ever.
Crimson_Concerto 05-28-07, 06:29 PM	So I still remain as nebulous on this as ever. You and everybody else, really. I mean, I personally think it's rather intuitive and makes a lot more sense for the ability to mean that you pick a single effect, but going by pure RAW, it doesn't really say, so unless there's errata I missed...
IRememberCecil 05-28-07, 06:47 PM	I'd rule it to grant all bonuses, though I acknowledge the ambiguity of the text. My reasoning is that at higher levels, there are generally a lot more bases to cover that need serious covering, since the game advances exponentially (except for certain classes that, coincidentally, end up having the most use for the bonuses).
Kalarus 05-28-07, 07:21 PM	I share myself on the side of "all benefits". The thing that does it for me is the fact that the Dark Knowledge can be used only once per creature. Why have this limitation, if not all Dark Knowledges are used all at the same time? Some of the bonuses are unnamed so they could potentially stack, but it's easier to just make it all insight bonuses, and allow the use of Dark Knowledge as many times as you want. It doesn't make sense that if you share a bit of information, other information which you could possibly know, suddenly cannot be shared. "Hrm, I might know know something about this creature's combat behaviour, I might know something about his corrupting influence, and I might know something about his vital spots." "Ah, I know something about his vital spots. That means I don't know anything about his combat behaviour or corrupting influence after all." Doesn't sound like very solid reasoning to me...