Archivist: ALL spells? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Archivist: ALL spells? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Trakx
04-11-06, 11:11 AM I once heard that Archivists (Heroes of Horror) can cast any spell, since any spell can be found on some cleric domain list - which then makes it available to them.

Is this true?
How does the Archivist add such spells to his prayerbook since he has to find them? Or, I guess my question really is: how does he find them to add them?
trolloc
04-11-06, 12:43 PM From the Heroes of Horror Excerpt (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20051007a&page=3).....

An archivist begins play with a prayerbook containing all 0-level cleric spells plus three 1st-level cleric spells of the player's choice. For each point of Intelligence bonus the archivist has, the prayerbook has an additional 1st-level cleric spell. At each new class level, the archivist gains two new cleric spells for his prayerbook; these can be of any spell level or levels that he can cast (based on his new archivist level).

At any time, an archivist can also add spells found on scrolls containing divine spells to his prayerbook, but he must make any rolls and spend the time required (see Adding Spells to a Wizard's Spellbook on page 178 of the Player's Handbook). The archivist can learn and thus prepare nonclerical divine spells in this fashion but the two free spells he gains for advancing in class level must be selected from the cleric spell list.
Trakx
04-11-06, 02:03 PM Rephrased, here is what I mean:

If Force is one of your Cleric domains, you have Magic Missle as one of your domain spells. This spell, I ASSUME, is considered clerical for one with this domain. Is it thus possible for the Archivist to learn this spell?
Darth Sephiroth
04-11-06, 02:15 PM In my understanding, no those don't count, only ones on the Standard Spell lists. Domain spells are slightly different that the normal lists.
StruckingFuggle
04-11-06, 02:44 PM Magic Domain.

Anyspell, Greater Anyspell.

Now ... I belive that they're prepared as domain spells, so they become Divine Spells, and can thus be scribed onto scrolls as Divine Spells ...
Puca
04-11-06, 02:50 PM Yeah, as long as the scroll is divine, he can put it into his book.
Or, I guess my question really is: how does he find them to add them?I suppose they are as available as the DM makes them. Between that and the time and expense of scribing, I dont think it should be too much of a concern.
Witch
04-11-06, 02:54 PM I would rule he can find them on scrolls, but can't learn them by levelling - like druid spells, in other words.
Puca
04-11-06, 02:58 PM I would rule he can find them on scrolls, but can't learn them by levelling - like druid spells, in other words.Im pretty sure thats exactly what the rule is. At least, I thought it was.
allenchan
04-11-06, 02:58 PM I'd rule it the same as Witch.
(dont forget Paladin spells and Adept spells, which can offer some tasty other treats, and divine bard if using unearthed arcana, for example).
Trakx
04-11-06, 03:15 PM I'd rule it the same as Witch.
(dont forget Paladin spells and Adept spells, which can offer some tasty other treats, and divine bard if using unearthed arcana, for example).

I had forgotten about the Divine Bard. Great idea!
The problem is that I don't believe such classes as the Bard, Paladin, Ranger, and some others actually write their spells down (i.e. scrolls). I never played a spellcaster, so I'm not 100% certain of anything concerning magic.
Moribund
04-11-06, 04:30 PM Anyone with Scribe Scroll can write a scroll of a spell they can memorize or know. If you don't have Scribe Scroll yourself you can work with someone who does (mebbe the Archivist).

IMC, Archivists are limited to standard cleric spells, druid spells, and spells from the domain lists granted by their deity. I also limit the breadth of spells available to clerics and druids at each level, because having their versatility increasing with each new sourcebook and being able to prepare the perfect spell for any given situation really irks me.

Letting Archivists use spells from half-caster (rangers and paladins) or PrC spell lists can lead to many, many, headaches for DMs since those spells are balanced against the limited ability of the caster to use them.
Kamandi
04-11-06, 05:44 PM a. Archivists only get Domains through prestige classing. Getting Anyspell would require some serious multi-level planning.

b. Finding Ranger and Druid Scrolls in game play (typically, in my experience) is next to impossible. Paladin Scrolls doubly so.
Vaelan
04-11-06, 06:15 PM Anyone with Scribe Scroll can write a scroll of a spell they can memorize or know. If you don't have Scribe Scroll yourself you can work with someone who does (mebbe the Archivist).
Exactly. If you want Magic Missile, you find a Cleric with the Force domain and convince them to cast it as a divine spell for you. Thus you have a divine scroll of magic missile and can scribe it into your prayerbook.
Kamandi
04-11-06, 06:36 PM Exactly. If you want Magic Missile, you find a Cleric with the Force domain and convince them to cast it as a divine spell for you. Thus you have a divine scroll of magic missile and can scribe it into your prayerbook.

I guess it sounds easy, but it means that in game play, you have to fins a cleric with a particular domain (not always readily available), convince him to cast a spell for you while you scribe it (hope he likes burning off his divine powers in vain! :P), and then you still have to pay for the scribing, and then pat to scribe it into your prayerbook, with a roll to learn.

There are enough variables in there to keep Arcane spells from being too easy to learn.

I know that in seven levels of Archivist, I've never been able to swing it.
StruckingFuggle
04-11-06, 06:47 PM a. Archivists only get Domains through prestige classing. Getting Anyspell would require some serious multi-level planning.

b. Finding Ranger and Druid Scrolls in game play (typically, in my experience) is next to impossible. Paladin Scrolls doubly so.

a. I meant find a cleric of the magic domain and scribe scroll (should be easy, find a huge church of one of the magic gods! Heh), and pay them to scribe some scrolls for you.

b. So there's no rangers and no druids and no paladins at all with the scribe scroll feat? Druids I find vaugely believable, but rangers and paladins tend to work together, I'd be surprised no one would take the feat to scribe scrolls for the purpose people have scrolls. Especially Paladins.
Kamandi
04-11-06, 06:55 PM So there's no rangers and no druids and no paladins at all with the scribe scroll feat? Druids I find vaugely believable, but rangers and paladins tend to work together, I'd be surprised no one would take the feat to scribe scrolls for the purpose people have scrolls. Especially Paladins.

I suppose...

It's weird... Our DM seemed to think that Paladins would NEVER scribe scrolls, as their abilities are sacred and personal. I tended to agree, but your take on it seems to make sense as well.

The reality of it, is that Archivists will find whatever scrolls your DM sees as allowable, which in my experience limits them considerably.

But it's still an awesome class...
Rpgraccoon
04-16-06, 12:38 PM Domain Spells are special. Finding a cleric who used one of his domain slots to scribe a scroll and then hide the scroll would be next to immposible.

I always thought the archivist would use druid or cleric spells only.

However, it all depends on the DM.
runestar
04-16-06, 01:45 PM b. So there's no rangers and no druids and no paladins at all with the scribe scroll feat? Druids I find vaugely believable, but rangers and paladins tend to work together, I'd be surprised no one would take the feat to scribe scrolls for the purpose people have scrolls. Especially Paladins.

They don't even need to have the scribe scroll feat. Archivists get it as a bonus feat, they simply need to cast the spell while the archivist is the one expanding the resources necessary to scribe the scroll. Of course, the only real trick is tracking them them and convincing them to cast said spell for you.
Ravag3r
04-16-06, 03:57 PM a. Archivists only get Domains through prestige classing. Getting Anyspell would require some serious multi-level planning.

yeah, but as said before, any clerical mook with Scribe Scroll and the right domain can make a scroll that the archivist can add to his prayer book.
allenchan
04-16-06, 10:02 PM yeah, but as said before, any clerical mook with Scribe Scroll and the right domain can make a scroll that the archivist can add to his prayer book.

Again,

They don't even need to have the scribe scroll feat. Archivists get it as a bonus feat, they simply need to cast the spell while the archivist is the one expanding the resources necessary to scribe the scroll. Of course, the only real trick is tracking them them and convincing them to cast said spell for you.

There is this misconception that a paladin or X other class (there's soooo many PrCs that grant their own divine spellcasting) needs to have scribe scroll.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Trakx 04-11-06, 11:11 AM	I once heard that Archivists (Heroes of Horror) can cast any spell, since any spell can be found on some cleric domain list - which then makes it available to them. Is this true? How does the Archivist add such spells to his prayerbook since he has to find them? Or, I guess my question really is: how does he find them to add them?
trolloc 04-11-06, 12:43 PM	From the Heroes of Horror Excerpt (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20051007a&page=3)..... An archivist begins play with a prayerbook containing all 0-level cleric spells plus three 1st-level cleric spells of the player's choice. For each point of Intelligence bonus the archivist has, the prayerbook has an additional 1st-level cleric spell. At each new class level, the archivist gains two new cleric spells for his prayerbook; these can be of any spell level or levels that he can cast (based on his new archivist level). At any time, an archivist can also add spells found on scrolls containing divine spells to his prayerbook, but he must make any rolls and spend the time required (see Adding Spells to a Wizard's Spellbook on page 178 of the Player's Handbook). The archivist can learn and thus prepare nonclerical divine spells in this fashion but the two free spells he gains for advancing in class level must be selected from the cleric spell list.
Trakx 04-11-06, 02:03 PM	Rephrased, here is what I mean: If Force is one of your Cleric domains, you have Magic Missle as one of your domain spells. This spell, I ASSUME, is considered clerical for one with this domain. Is it thus possible for the Archivist to learn this spell?
Darth Sephiroth 04-11-06, 02:15 PM	In my understanding, no those don't count, only ones on the Standard Spell lists. Domain spells are slightly different that the normal lists.
StruckingFuggle 04-11-06, 02:44 PM	Magic Domain. Anyspell, Greater Anyspell. Now ... I belive that they're prepared as domain spells, so they become Divine Spells, and can thus be scribed onto scrolls as Divine Spells ...
Puca 04-11-06, 02:50 PM	Yeah, as long as the scroll is divine, he can put it into his book. Or, I guess my question really is: how does he find them to add them?I suppose they are as available as the DM makes them. Between that and the time and expense of scribing, I dont think it should be too much of a concern.
Witch 04-11-06, 02:54 PM	I would rule he can find them on scrolls, but can't learn them by levelling - like druid spells, in other words.
Puca 04-11-06, 02:58 PM	I would rule he can find them on scrolls, but can't learn them by levelling - like druid spells, in other words.Im pretty sure thats exactly what the rule is. At least, I thought it was.
allenchan 04-11-06, 02:58 PM	I'd rule it the same as Witch. (dont forget Paladin spells and Adept spells, which can offer some tasty other treats, and divine bard if using unearthed arcana, for example).
Trakx 04-11-06, 03:15 PM	I'd rule it the same as Witch. (dont forget Paladin spells and Adept spells, which can offer some tasty other treats, and divine bard if using unearthed arcana, for example). I had forgotten about the Divine Bard. Great idea! The problem is that I don't believe such classes as the Bard, Paladin, Ranger, and some others actually write their spells down (i.e. scrolls). I never played a spellcaster, so I'm not 100% certain of anything concerning magic.
Moribund 04-11-06, 04:30 PM	Anyone with Scribe Scroll can write a scroll of a spell they can memorize or know. If you don't have Scribe Scroll yourself you can work with someone who does (mebbe the Archivist). IMC, Archivists are limited to standard cleric spells, druid spells, and spells from the domain lists granted by their deity. I also limit the breadth of spells available to clerics and druids at each level, because having their versatility increasing with each new sourcebook and being able to prepare the perfect spell for any given situation really irks me. Letting Archivists use spells from half-caster (rangers and paladins) or PrC spell lists can lead to many, many, headaches for DMs since those spells are balanced against the limited ability of the caster to use them.
Kamandi 04-11-06, 05:44 PM	a. Archivists only get Domains through prestige classing. Getting Anyspell would require some serious multi-level planning. b. Finding Ranger and Druid Scrolls in game play (typically, in my experience) is next to impossible. Paladin Scrolls doubly so.
Vaelan 04-11-06, 06:15 PM	Anyone with Scribe Scroll can write a scroll of a spell they can memorize or know. If you don't have Scribe Scroll yourself you can work with someone who does (mebbe the Archivist). Exactly. If you want Magic Missile, you find a Cleric with the Force domain and convince them to cast it as a divine spell for you. Thus you have a divine scroll of magic missile and can scribe it into your prayerbook.
Kamandi 04-11-06, 06:36 PM	Exactly. If you want Magic Missile, you find a Cleric with the Force domain and convince them to cast it as a divine spell for you. Thus you have a divine scroll of magic missile and can scribe it into your prayerbook. I guess it sounds easy, but it means that in game play, you have to fins a cleric with a particular domain (not always readily available), convince him to cast a spell for you while you scribe it (hope he likes burning off his divine powers in vain! :P), and then you still have to pay for the scribing, and then pat to scribe it into your prayerbook, with a roll to learn. There are enough variables in there to keep Arcane spells from being too easy to learn. I know that in seven levels of Archivist, I've never been able to swing it.
StruckingFuggle 04-11-06, 06:47 PM	a. Archivists only get Domains through prestige classing. Getting Anyspell would require some serious multi-level planning. b. Finding Ranger and Druid Scrolls in game play (typically, in my experience) is next to impossible. Paladin Scrolls doubly so. a. I meant find a cleric of the magic domain and scribe scroll (should be easy, find a huge church of one of the magic gods! Heh), and pay them to scribe some scrolls for you. b. So there's no rangers and no druids and no paladins at all with the scribe scroll feat? Druids I find vaugely believable, but rangers and paladins tend to work together, I'd be surprised no one would take the feat to scribe scrolls for the purpose people have scrolls. Especially Paladins.
Kamandi 04-11-06, 06:55 PM	So there's no rangers and no druids and no paladins at all with the scribe scroll feat? Druids I find vaugely believable, but rangers and paladins tend to work together, I'd be surprised no one would take the feat to scribe scrolls for the purpose people have scrolls. Especially Paladins. I suppose... It's weird... Our DM seemed to think that Paladins would NEVER scribe scrolls, as their abilities are sacred and personal. I tended to agree, but your take on it seems to make sense as well. The reality of it, is that Archivists will find whatever scrolls your DM sees as allowable, which in my experience limits them considerably. But it's still an awesome class...
Rpgraccoon 04-16-06, 12:38 PM	Domain Spells are special. Finding a cleric who used one of his domain slots to scribe a scroll and then hide the scroll would be next to immposible. I always thought the archivist would use druid or cleric spells only. However, it all depends on the DM.
runestar 04-16-06, 01:45 PM	b. So there's no rangers and no druids and no paladins at all with the scribe scroll feat? Druids I find vaugely believable, but rangers and paladins tend to work together, I'd be surprised no one would take the feat to scribe scrolls for the purpose people have scrolls. Especially Paladins. They don't even need to have the scribe scroll feat. Archivists get it as a bonus feat, they simply need to cast the spell while the archivist is the one expanding the resources necessary to scribe the scroll. Of course, the only real trick is tracking them them and convincing them to cast said spell for you.
Ravag3r 04-16-06, 03:57 PM	a. Archivists only get Domains through prestige classing. Getting Anyspell would require some serious multi-level planning. yeah, but as said before, any clerical mook with Scribe Scroll and the right domain can make a scroll that the archivist can add to his prayer book.
allenchan 04-16-06, 10:02 PM	yeah, but as said before, any clerical mook with Scribe Scroll and the right domain can make a scroll that the archivist can add to his prayer book. Again, They don't even need to have the scribe scroll feat. Archivists get it as a bonus feat, they simply need to cast the spell while the archivist is the one expanding the resources necessary to scribe the scroll. Of course, the only real trick is tracking them them and convincing them to cast said spell for you. There is this misconception that a paladin or X other class (there's soooo many PrCs that grant their own divine spellcasting) needs to have scribe scroll.