Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tyron 09-14-04, 02:49 PM	Board memebers my character a 7 level wizard/10 level incantatrix/ 3 level Archmage is about to become epic :) . For the 21ste level of the character I would like to take another level in the arch mage prestige class and take the spell like ability high arcana power. My question to you is which spell like ability would I take? Some character background: Improved metamagic, Twin spell, Maximize spell, quicken spell, silent spell. Tyron
JabberWocky 09-14-04, 03:04 PM	Personally I'd get something like Greater Teleport 3/day. If you're ever in serious trouble (barring outside intervention), just *fwip* and you're gone. Maybe back to an NPC healer's place where you can get zapped back to health and then *fwip* back to the battlefield. If you're willing to sacrifice the 9th-level slot, get it 6/day. :P
fafhrdthered333 09-14-04, 03:11 PM	Maximized Vampiric touch! 60 hp gone and no save. combine with other archmage ability to use touch attack from 30 feet away and you need'nt be in melee range to use it.
JabberWocky 09-14-04, 03:14 PM	At such a high level 60 hp won't be worth it unless he has it like 6 times per day. :\
Pentar 09-14-04, 03:21 PM	Hello, :) I went through the same delimma myself. :) I'm playing a 5 Wizard/10 Shadow Adept/2 Archmage I took Disintegrate as my spell-like ability, 2 times a day. Main reason? Versatility. You can take out any annoying [force] effect with a disintegrate (no more Forcecage worries for me - or my companions, for that matter). You can deal damage if you need to and because it's not elemental damage, it bypasses any resistance, and even works on undead. In miscellaneous situations, disintegrating large amounts of non-living matter can be very useful (i.e. getting through a wall, or blasting your way through a door, or even helping to collapse buildings and manufacture cave-ins). It was a generally useful, all-purpose spell that made me want to take a spell-like ability in it.
amoeba 09-14-04, 03:46 PM	Hello, :) I went through the same delimma myself. :) I'm playing a 5 Wizard/10 Shadow Adept/2 Archmage I took Disintegrate as my spell-like ability, 2 times a day. Main reason? Versatility. You can take out any annoying [force] effect with a disintegrate (no more Forcecage worries for me - or my companions, for that matter). You can deal damage if you need to and because it's not elemental damage, it bypasses any resistance, and even works on undead. In miscellaneous situations, disintegrating large amounts of non-living matter can be very useful (i.e. getting through a wall, or blasting your way through a door, or even helping to collapse buildings and manufacture cave-ins). It was a generally useful, all-purpose spell that made me want to take a spell-like ability in it. Disintigrate as a spell like ability is very powerful. Disintigrate is already hard to avoid as its not a death effect and its a ray. This rules out stuff like deathward and spellturning. Disintigrate is the ultimate Lich Killer. Most liches I've ran would always carry a ring of counterspells : disintigrate. However, if you turn disintigrate in to a spell like ability, it can't be counterspelled.
Tyron 09-14-04, 05:37 PM	Ok....so far I heard two choses which I like: disintegrate 4/day 9th level spell slot or teleport 4/day 8th level spell slot. But do you know any more. I was thinking about maximized enervation 4/day....but the thread still open :D . So post your ideas! When I think about it, what about: disintegrate 4/day 9th level spell slot with a quickened spell like ability feat. :mymy: Ideas are welcome :) .
Tyron 09-16-04, 03:07 PM	What about shapechange as spell like ability........any more ideas?
Pentar 09-16-04, 03:18 PM	When I think about it, what about: disintegrate 4/day 9th level spell slot with a quickened spell like ability feat. :mymy: Ideas are welcome :) . I'm not exactly sure how the Quicken Spell-like Ability works, but that is an idea! :) I personally found that I haven't had to use my Disintegrate spell-like ability that often. But it has come in VERY handy when I have needed it. I'm not sure I'd go for 4x/day, but that's entirely up to you. I'd prefer not to give up a 9th-level slot for that. I would be against Enervation for several reason; a) You could miss with your ranged-touch attack and expend an ability without effect b) Not everything is suspectible to Enervation (although, admittedly, a lot is), things like Undead will get stronger because of it. That and Enervation can be defended against by the 4th-level spell Death Ward. c) Aside from combat application, Enervation has no practical uses. I wanted to do Forcecage as a spell-like ability, until I found out you have to pay the material component cost in x10 XP per use. :mymy: Another good one for great combat-mobility is Dimension Door and it has possibilities outside of combat too (helping party members getting across a wide chasm, up a cliff, etc.)
Faragon 09-16-04, 05:24 PM	b) Not everything is suspectible to Enervation (although, admittedly, a lot is), things like Undead will get stronger because of it. That and Enervation can be defended against by the 4th-level spell Death Ward.Note that deathward doesn't protect against enervation in 3rd Edition. Only protects from death spells and magical death effects, not level drain. It does in 3.5 however.
Fromost the Grimm 09-16-04, 06:34 PM	. . . well, seeing as how it costs one 5th level spell slot to take the Spell-Like Ability, plus one spell slot of the specific spell's level, make sure the spell you choose is at least 5th level, if not more. If it's of a lower level, then you're effectively burning a 5th level slot for a weaker spell . . . not good. Do you find that your character has "too many" spells? If so, maybe you should pick something for versatility other than for that your mage is known for. I generated a Wizard 5/ Elemental Savant 8/ Archmage 2 for some high-level adventuring, made him an Evoker specialist, then burnt a 5th and an 8th level slot for two empowered maximised Fireball's every day. Ultimately though, this was a bad decision - I had so many high-powered Evocation spells every day that two more as spell-like abilities made little difference. So I'd suggest something different from what your Archmage always has learnt. If your ranged touch attack is good, I would consider empowered maximised Ray of Enfeeblement for a 6th level slot. A -16 to an opponent's strength with no save is pretty tasty. Likewise, an empowered maximised Enervation for a 9th level slot is expensive, but 6 negative levels with no save is gonna upset anyone's day . . . such would be a little less without Empowered Spell though . . ? Chained Blindness/Deafness . . ? Greater Teleport is a great idea. As is Greater Invisibility and PAO/Shapechange for pure versatility. Iron Body for auto-golem twice per day . . ? Still, a few quickened maximised Fireballs ( with Mastery of Shaping ) are great to throw into the thick of melee as a free action . . . if you're into that whole direct-damage thing.
angryman 09-16-04, 09:33 PM	My Evoker/Archmage took Prismatic Spray a couple of times a day. Very useful. Also greater dispel could be good, True sight. You're an Incantrix so maybe Dismissal...but just think of a spell that you'll always want to cast, ie nothing too specific, and go with it. I know it's tricky!
Votan 09-16-04, 11:20 PM	Board memebers my character a 7 level wizard/10 level incantatrix/ 3 level Archmage is about to become epic :) . For the 21ste level of the character I would like to take another level in the arch mage prestige class and take the spell like ability high arcana power. My question to you is which spell like ability would I take? Some character background: Improved metamagic, Twin spell, Maximize spell, quicken spell, silent spell. Tyron It is funny, of all of the high arcana powers this is the one that I least see the point of taking. Okay, it has some nice features if you are caught without a spellbook. But it works best with emergency spells that are best used in a crisis (Greater Teleport). A general attack spell is probably better used to power Arcane fire (as you can burn slots even if they are not prepared and the ability to ignore SR is sweet). I can see a sorcerer taking this and using spell substitution to increase the number of spells he has access to (especially if it is a ninth level spell). But with a wizard I think I would normally prefer the flexibility of preparing spells rather than trading in slots for spell-like abilities.
fractal 09-17-04, 01:33 AM	If your ranged touch attack is good, I would consider empowered maximised Ray of Enfeeblement for a 6th level slot. A -16 to an opponent's strength with no save is pretty tasty. Likewise, an empowered maximised Enervation for a 9th level slot is expensive, but 6 negative levels with no save is gonna upset anyone's day . . . such would be a little less without Empowered Spell though . . ? Chained Blindness/Deafness . . ? Unfortunately, I don't think it works this way. Maximize does not actually maximize the additional dice from Empower. Thus, an Empowered Maximized Ray of Enfeeblement will lower strength by 11 + 3-5 = 14-16. You'll only get the -16 result 1/3 of the time. Similarly, Enervation will yield 4 + 0-2 Negative levels, and only drain 6 levels 1/4 of the time. See the top of page 98 in the 3.5 PHB.
VolkorTheRed 09-17-04, 11:03 AM	Take Time Stop :) Being able to cast it twice as spell-like ability rocks :D
baerdith 09-17-04, 12:06 PM	For Versatility/Utility I would go with any of the Shadows (Conj. and Evoc can be used 4 times per day - The Greaters only twice per day) Or Major Creation 4 times per day to make anything you need has great Utility.
Kiri Sittori 09-17-04, 01:10 PM	Disintigrate as a spell like ability is very powerful. Disintigrate is already hard to avoid as its not a death effect and its a ray. This rules out stuff like deathward and spellturning. Disintigrate is the ultimate Lich Killer. Most liches I've ran would always carry a ring of counterspells : disintigrate. However, if you turn disintigrate in to a spell like ability, it can't be counterspelled. Umm... Disintegrate can and does get turned. Spells and spell-like effects targeted on you are turned back upon the original caster. The abjuration turns only spells that have you as a target. Effect and area spells are not affected. Spell turning also fails to stop touch range spells Now, to be sure... "turns only spells that have you as a target" reads that way ONLY because Spell Turning is a personal-range spell. (Otherwise, some wise-arse might say "then ST is useless, because it only turns spells that have target:you [IE, personal range spells.]" And Ray spells are not touch-range. (They make ranged touch attacks, but that isn't the same thing as touch-range.) Therefore, Disintegrate can be turned. Raygun Mage, meet my Ring of Spell Turnin', and prepare to eat yer own dust. -Fractal: Exactly right. Max-emp'd Ray of Enfeeblement: 11+((1d6+5)/2,) for a range of 14-16. (Compare to a pure emp'd, which gives 9-16, and is only third level!) Max-emp'd Enervate: 4+(1d4/2) for 4-6. Maximise and Empower do not stack: you take the maximum, plus half of a roll. -- Now, as to what spells I'd consider: 1. Ride the Lightning (from Monte's AU.) The gist of it is that you fire off a Long Range lightning bolt, and teleport to its end point. For the Ky Kiske in all of us. L7 evocation [electric.] 2. Teleport Without Error. Sorry, I WILL use the old name. :) 3. Disintegrate, especially Empowered. You WILL get through that door, or make yer own hole in the wall, or dig a 10' pit in the ground, or (hopefully) deal inordinate amounts of damage to yon foeman. As an added bonus, it'll dust the enemy, but not his stuff. 4. (With Master of Counterspells) Greater Dispell, possibly as a 4x (L9 slot.) 5. Mordenkainen's Ultimate Magic Dispeller. Seriously, if you actually USE Disjunction with any frequency, picking up an extra casting wouldn't hurt. Great as a 4x in a 12th level slot for you Level 24+ types. :) This goes equally well for any ninth-level spell. Just don't overdo it... fifth level slots don't grow on trees (unless you WANT to burn feats on Extra Slot to accommodate all those spell-likes.)
Tyron 09-17-04, 03:15 PM	5. Mordenkainen's Ultimate Magic Dispeller. Seriously, if you actually USE Disjunction with any frequency, picking up an extra casting wouldn't hurt. Great as a 4x in a 12th level slot for you Level 24+ types. This goes equally well for any ninth-level spell. I personally like this one. The only problem with Mordenkainen's disjunction is that it destroys treasure, though :) . Take Time Stop You're making it a difficult choice Time Stop would be great. Mmmmmm....still not certain what to choose. But these are my favorites, Lets vote: 1) Shapechange, 2) Teleport without error :) ,3) Mordenkainen's disjunction and ,4) Meteor swarm :D .
Pentar 09-17-04, 03:19 PM	Just wanted to pitch Disintegrate once more - because basically it was awesome in last night's game campaign. :P Long story short, the party was engaged against an enemy party trying to achieve the same goal in getting an item from a Devil lord. Our party flew to the top of the devil lord's tower while the other party and their hired mercs were taking on the lord's bodyguards. Using Disintegrate spell-like ability, I blasted a hole in the side of the tower for our party to get in there first (bypassing the stairs which were the only other way up and were being fought for at the very moment). Very sweet. :P Personally, I wouldn't take MDJ unless I also had Mastery of Shaping. Your friends can get really ****** at you if you dispel their magical items. :P
CrimsonRyoko 09-17-04, 03:44 PM	Im not sure what id choose, but to chime in along with a previous poster, this ability for a Sorcerer can be pretty awesome if you use it for lvls 18-20, and 9th level spells. Spell1x2 Spell2x2 Spell3x2 Spell1,2,3x3 So ya get 33% more 9th level spells per day before bonus for a high score. And by that time 5th level spells arent that great. Only downside i guess is that as you advanced higher, it wouldnt get that uber since ya get higher slots, but meh, if you play in a Stop at 20 game, this can pack a punch near the end.
VolkorTheRed 09-17-04, 04:24 PM	I personally like this one. The only problem with Mordenkainen's disjunction is that it destroys treasure, though :) . You're making it a difficult choice Time Stop would be great. Mmmmmm....still not certain what to choose. But these are my favorites, Lets vote: 1) Shapechange, 2) Teleport without error :) ,3) Mordenkainen's disjunction and ,4) Meteor swarm :D . The potential to deal damage or the potential utility of it, is much greater when you can cast 2x Time Stop then it is with 2x meteor Swarm, IMO. Its even better when you still play under 3.0 rules :D Just my 2 cents :)
fractal 09-17-04, 10:16 PM	Umm... Disintegrate can and does get turned. Now, to be sure... "turns only spells that have you as a target" reads that way ONLY because Spell Turning is a personal-range spell. (Otherwise, some wise-arse might say "then ST is useless, because it only turns spells that have target:you [IE, personal range spells.]" And Ray spells are not touch-range. (They make ranged touch attacks, but that isn't the same thing as touch-range.) Ray spells are not touch range, true. However, they are Effect: Ray, and "Effect and area spells are not affected." Therefore, Disintegrate cannot be turned.
Kiri Sittori 09-17-04, 10:39 PM	Ray spells are not touch range, true. However, they are Effect: Ray, and "Effect and area spells are not affected." Therefore, Disintegrate cannot be turned. Then spell turning is pretty durned useless. Because who in their right mind (knowing that spell turning exists, and being of any level where ST use might be conceivable) would ever cast a target spell? Which brings us to a handful of spells that serve to limit arcanists to the tactics of Buff Allies, Defend Yer Arse, or Blow All Enemies to the Hells. Mind blank: The entire enchantment school. True seeing: Pretty much the entire illusion school. Death ward: Pretty much all of necromancy. Spell turning: All "target" spells (a list that includes far, far too many non-damaging spells, and EXCLUDES far, far too many damage spells.)
darkwave 09-18-04, 12:02 AM	Yeah, it can be pretty bad for a DM when the 10th level cleric goes it alone against the Big Bad Guy: 14th level wizard and wins. (PCs plan, not the DMs) And the 12th level cleric BBG goes against the 10th level Fighter, (9th) Wizard and (10th) Sorcerer and wins. (Not part of PCs plan, but it is DUE to it... :D ) And then the cleric (now 11th) comes back and starts res'ing the rest of the party to go after the last cleric. I mean shoot, he needs SOMEONE to annoy the Cleric BBG while Cleric PC takes him down...