Archmage vs Heirophant [Archive] - Wizards Community

Archmage vs Heirophant [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
dawgfan
02-18-04, 01:18 AM I was wondering why in the nine hells does an archmage get plus one caster level every level and a heirophant doesnt, considering they are pretty much the exact same class just for different kinds of spellcasters.
Eldren
02-18-04, 01:33 AM That's a 3.5 messup, and it might even qualify as an official errata, as I can't see any reason why they wouldn't increase a divine caster's level as they took the five levels of Hierophant.

When the Hierophant prestige class first appeared in 3.0, it was in the Forgotten Realms Campaign Sourcebook, the same book that the Archmage originally appeared in as well. The Archmage has been ported over to the 3.5 Dungeon Master's Guide nearly verbatim; the only thing that changed was their Spell Power High Arcana ability, which now doesn't increase the save DCs against their spells.

I'd be willing to bet it's an errata, but since we don't have errata for the 3.5 Dungeon Master's Guide yet, any DM ruling that would have to admit they're using a house rule. Personally, I run both the Archmage and the Hierophant in my campaigns according to their 3.0 versions.

You might consider e-mailing the Sage, Skip Williams, about this one, to see what he has to say. He can be reached at tsrsage@aol.com
KardalysDelAranya
02-18-04, 03:36 AM Disclaimer: I don't have my books on me, so this may be very wrong, but...I believe you should recheck your FRCS. If I remember correctly, Hierophant levels in the 3.0 version stacked with caster level for determining variable damage dice and caster level checks, but not for spell progression or spells/day. I played a Hierophant only briefly as a cohort, but I remember it not getting more spells, just a higher caster level (which my Ur-Priest didn't care about). So it wouldn't be errata in 3.5, it says it works in the same way.

On the plus side, Hierophants do not have to blow spell slots on their special abilities (except for spell-like ability, obviously). I'm not sure I would consider this a balanced trade-off, but it would appear thats what the authors intended to be the case. Archmages lose spells/day, Hierophants gain higher level spells slower.
bitnine
02-18-04, 03:43 AM Originally posted by KardalysDelAranya
On the plus side, Hierophants do not have to blow spell slots on their special abilities (except for spell-like ability, obviously). I'm not sure I would consider this a balanced trade-off, but it would appear thats what the authors intended to be the case. Archmages lose spells/day, Hierophants gain higher level spells slower.

Hm. I definately would favor one of those over the other...
Gyrofthewastes
02-18-04, 06:55 AM Someone's not reading the rules anyway. The 3.5 Hierophant DOES get +1 caster level, it just doesn't get spell progression.
Sensei Gith
02-18-04, 07:40 AM My group just simply takes the archmage and ports it directly into a divine PrC. The hierophant is just like th archmage, but the abilities aren't as good and they cost more spell slots? Not IMC.
dantedarkstar
02-18-04, 10:57 AM Unless you get to epics, where Hierophant's abilities are almost for free, that is.
And stackable Spell Power from that class is absolutely unholy in conjunction with new "better" Holy Words.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
dawgfan 02-18-04, 01:18 AM	I was wondering why in the nine hells does an archmage get plus one caster level every level and a heirophant doesnt, considering they are pretty much the exact same class just for different kinds of spellcasters.
Eldren 02-18-04, 01:33 AM	That's a 3.5 messup, and it might even qualify as an official errata, as I can't see any reason why they wouldn't increase a divine caster's level as they took the five levels of Hierophant. When the Hierophant prestige class first appeared in 3.0, it was in the Forgotten Realms Campaign Sourcebook, the same book that the Archmage originally appeared in as well. The Archmage has been ported over to the 3.5 Dungeon Master's Guide nearly verbatim; the only thing that changed was their Spell Power High Arcana ability, which now doesn't increase the save DCs against their spells. I'd be willing to bet it's an errata, but since we don't have errata for the 3.5 Dungeon Master's Guide yet, any DM ruling that would have to admit they're using a house rule. Personally, I run both the Archmage and the Hierophant in my campaigns according to their 3.0 versions. You might consider e-mailing the Sage, Skip Williams, about this one, to see what he has to say. He can be reached at tsrsage@aol.com
KardalysDelAranya 02-18-04, 03:36 AM	Disclaimer: I don't have my books on me, so this may be very wrong, but...I believe you should recheck your FRCS. If I remember correctly, Hierophant levels in the 3.0 version stacked with caster level for determining variable damage dice and caster level checks, but not for spell progression or spells/day. I played a Hierophant only briefly as a cohort, but I remember it not getting more spells, just a higher caster level (which my Ur-Priest didn't care about). So it wouldn't be errata in 3.5, it says it works in the same way. On the plus side, Hierophants do not have to blow spell slots on their special abilities (except for spell-like ability, obviously). I'm not sure I would consider this a balanced trade-off, but it would appear thats what the authors intended to be the case. Archmages lose spells/day, Hierophants gain higher level spells slower.
bitnine 02-18-04, 03:43 AM	Originally posted by KardalysDelAranya On the plus side, Hierophants do not have to blow spell slots on their special abilities (except for spell-like ability, obviously). I'm not sure I would consider this a balanced trade-off, but it would appear thats what the authors intended to be the case. Archmages lose spells/day, Hierophants gain higher level spells slower. Hm. I definately would favor one of those over the other...
Gyrofthewastes 02-18-04, 06:55 AM	Someone's not reading the rules anyway. The 3.5 Hierophant DOES get +1 caster level, it just doesn't get spell progression.
Sensei Gith 02-18-04, 07:40 AM	My group just simply takes the archmage and ports it directly into a divine PrC. The hierophant is just like th archmage, but the abilities aren't as good and they cost more spell slots? Not IMC.
dantedarkstar 02-18-04, 10:57 AM	Unless you get to epics, where Hierophant's abilities are almost for free, that is. And stackable Spell Power from that class is absolutely unholy in conjunction with new "better" Holy Words.