Are these changes balanced for the Ranger. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Are these changes balanced for the Ranger. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Darth Sephiroth
05-01-06, 09:16 PM I'm going to be playing an Urban Ranger in a comming game and was wondering if the following would be balanced.

Ditching Armor and Shield Proficiencies, Animal Companion, and Spellcasting

Gaining the Monks Unarmored Speed increase and Defense Bonus

Replacing Handle Animal and Ride with Balance and Tumble
gorfnad the shiznit
05-02-06, 12:59 AM That's a great trade off actually. The skills trade off is good as well. This would make for a very quick and stealthy ranger, probaly armed with a bow (because of the lower AC), that would be a good street ambusher and tracker. Otherwise this build with two-weapon fighting leading into dervish would be quick effective as well.
MasterOfPsychic
05-02-06, 03:26 AM I do agree
Ghostwheel
05-02-06, 05:44 AM I'm going to be playing an Urban Ranger in a comming game and was wondering if the following would be balanced.

Ditching Armor and Shield Proficiencies, Animal Companion, and Spellcasting

Gaining the Monks Unarmored Speed increase and Defense Bonus

Replacing Handle Animal and Ride with Balance and Tumble

I am not seeing anything unbalanced about these trade-offs, but I am quite tired at this time and may not be thinking clearly. But what I do think I see is a new class. Urban Stalker anyone?
The_Shaman
05-02-06, 07:48 AM Maybe you could have an animal companion, but only of a sort accepted to a city - bird, god, cat (maybe a small wild cat) or the like. Other than that, the AC bonus of a monk is a result of specialized training I doubt your character has. Why not keep light armor proficiency instead? Speed increase can be limited to 10 ft increases, twice (once as a barbarian has at lvl 1 and once as gaining the fleet of foot - iirc it is the one that gives 10 ft speed increase - at, say, lvl 7, perhaps instead of the woodland stride feat. Alternatively, replace the woodland stride with something that gives you good balancing skills on surfaces slightly more common in a city, i.e. Surefooted. After all, being able to cover 100 ft in 6 seconds without straining yourself (running) is already pretty enviable. Aside from that, the changes look pretty good. Maybe you lose a bit more than you gain, but still it's tolerable. For the sake of balance, and since your character would seem to be a bit of a stalker, I could suggest gaining 1d6 sneak attack or skirmish damage every 4 or 5 levels instead of the spells.
Dhavaer
05-02-06, 07:52 AM Maybe you could have an animal companion, but only of a sort accepted to a city - bird, god, large cat or the like.

I want one of them for my animal companion! ;)
The_Shaman
05-02-06, 07:57 AM Ooops, that would only be tolerable for a ranger with an effective druid level of, say, 45 or so... So you'd have to wait awhile, unfortunately. In the meantime, get a dog :D
Finarin Panjoro
05-02-06, 10:14 AM I'd also recommend replacing Wild Empathy with a bonus to Gather Information checks made in the city. Woodland Stride could be replaced with Trap Sense (like a rogue/barbarian).
texasboyks
05-02-06, 10:19 AM Take a look at the changes that I made. Might give you some ideas

Catfolk Ranger Modification (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=631459)
Darth Sephiroth
05-02-06, 11:58 AM I like the additional ideas though I'm not ditching the Favored Enemy like the catfolk ranger modification does.

The replacements for things would work great and yes this may end up being made into an entirely new class if I keep playing with it for to long. I like the name idea. Woodland stride is already replaced with the Urban Ranger variant though.
danielinthewolvesden
05-02-06, 12:16 PM I'm going to be playing an Urban Ranger in a comming game and was wondering if the following would be balanced.

Ditching Armor and Shield Proficiencies, Animal Companion, and Spellcasting

Gaining the Monks Unarmored Speed increase and Defense Bonus

Replacing Handle Animal and Ride with Balance and Tumble

No. Spellcasting is not a hit if your wisdom is low. Animal companion makes perfect sense for urban settings- cat, dog, ferret, rat, raven, etc. Why no armour? Folks still ride in town. Tumble is the single most powerful skill, bar none.

There's rules for urban rangers in some of the books- er Races of Destiny?
Darth Sephiroth
05-02-06, 01:47 PM The no armor and spellcasting has to do with the character concept and the same with the animal companion. The character has a decent wisdom for tracking people. The character favors acrobatics rather than armor and isn't able to cast spells. The Animal Companion ability just doesn't fit the character. He's going to be a fast and agile ranged weapons expert. (Plunging Shot is one of the feats he's definately got.) The Urban Ranger just felt the closest to the concept and I'd like it to fit better rather than just wasting abilities that don't fit him.
The_Shaman
05-02-06, 04:39 PM Why don't you focus on a swashbuckler with a level or two of ranger, then, potentially going to duelist? That seems closest to the way you interpret the class, imo. You can take a few levels of urban ranger for the tracking.
Darth Sephiroth
05-02-06, 04:49 PM I'm going for a ranged focus for combat skills, namely an acrobatic fighting style most similar to Vincent Valentines in Advent Children, though a lot less Wuxiaish
The_Shaman
05-02-06, 05:52 PM I'd still say a swashbuckler can fit the style better. Not all of them swagger around with rapiers, you know... in fact, they need not swagger at all. Without the connection to nature, and without the emphasis on stealth, I don't really see that much left of the ranger, really. Anyway, GL in doing it, I hope my idea helps a bit. If you do look for a swashie, at least to complement the acrobatic style, there are a few ideas in the PrC department that may fit the concept better than the CW one and that have various weapon styles you may like for your char.
danielinthewolvesden
05-02-06, 05:56 PM Nearly every character class has a "wasted" class ability or two that doesn't fit your PC concept, that doesn't mean you get anything back. However, a swashbuckler or rogue fits what you have told us better than a ranger. In fact, you are using few of the rangers class abilities from what I see. :confused:
Darth Sephiroth
05-02-06, 08:00 PM Primarily it is the Spellcasting and Animal Companion that seem wasted, Rogue just doesn't seem to quite fit. Anyway I worked it out as a full class (Thanks Ghostwheel for the name idea).

Urban Stalker (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=9079481)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Darth Sephiroth 05-01-06, 09:16 PM	I'm going to be playing an Urban Ranger in a comming game and was wondering if the following would be balanced. Ditching Armor and Shield Proficiencies, Animal Companion, and Spellcasting Gaining the Monks Unarmored Speed increase and Defense Bonus Replacing Handle Animal and Ride with Balance and Tumble
gorfnad the shiznit 05-02-06, 12:59 AM	That's a great trade off actually. The skills trade off is good as well. This would make for a very quick and stealthy ranger, probaly armed with a bow (because of the lower AC), that would be a good street ambusher and tracker. Otherwise this build with two-weapon fighting leading into dervish would be quick effective as well.
MasterOfPsychic 05-02-06, 03:26 AM	I do agree
Ghostwheel 05-02-06, 05:44 AM	I'm going to be playing an Urban Ranger in a comming game and was wondering if the following would be balanced. Ditching Armor and Shield Proficiencies, Animal Companion, and Spellcasting Gaining the Monks Unarmored Speed increase and Defense Bonus Replacing Handle Animal and Ride with Balance and Tumble I am not seeing anything unbalanced about these trade-offs, but I am quite tired at this time and may not be thinking clearly. But what I do think I see is a new class. Urban Stalker anyone?
The_Shaman 05-02-06, 07:48 AM	Maybe you could have an animal companion, but only of a sort accepted to a city - bird, god, cat (maybe a small wild cat) or the like. Other than that, the AC bonus of a monk is a result of specialized training I doubt your character has. Why not keep light armor proficiency instead? Speed increase can be limited to 10 ft increases, twice (once as a barbarian has at lvl 1 and once as gaining the fleet of foot - iirc it is the one that gives 10 ft speed increase - at, say, lvl 7, perhaps instead of the woodland stride feat. Alternatively, replace the woodland stride with something that gives you good balancing skills on surfaces slightly more common in a city, i.e. Surefooted. After all, being able to cover 100 ft in 6 seconds without straining yourself (running) is already pretty enviable. Aside from that, the changes look pretty good. Maybe you lose a bit more than you gain, but still it's tolerable. For the sake of balance, and since your character would seem to be a bit of a stalker, I could suggest gaining 1d6 sneak attack or skirmish damage every 4 or 5 levels instead of the spells.
Dhavaer 05-02-06, 07:52 AM	Maybe you could have an animal companion, but only of a sort accepted to a city - bird, god, large cat or the like. I want one of them for my animal companion! ;)
The_Shaman 05-02-06, 07:57 AM	Ooops, that would only be tolerable for a ranger with an effective druid level of, say, 45 or so... So you'd have to wait awhile, unfortunately. In the meantime, get a dog :D
Finarin Panjoro 05-02-06, 10:14 AM	I'd also recommend replacing Wild Empathy with a bonus to Gather Information checks made in the city. Woodland Stride could be replaced with Trap Sense (like a rogue/barbarian).
texasboyks 05-02-06, 10:19 AM	Take a look at the changes that I made. Might give you some ideas Catfolk Ranger Modification (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=631459)
Darth Sephiroth 05-02-06, 11:58 AM	I like the additional ideas though I'm not ditching the Favored Enemy like the catfolk ranger modification does. The replacements for things would work great and yes this may end up being made into an entirely new class if I keep playing with it for to long. I like the name idea. Woodland stride is already replaced with the Urban Ranger variant though.
danielinthewolvesden 05-02-06, 12:16 PM	I'm going to be playing an Urban Ranger in a comming game and was wondering if the following would be balanced. Ditching Armor and Shield Proficiencies, Animal Companion, and Spellcasting Gaining the Monks Unarmored Speed increase and Defense Bonus Replacing Handle Animal and Ride with Balance and Tumble No. Spellcasting is not a hit if your wisdom is low. Animal companion makes perfect sense for urban settings- cat, dog, ferret, rat, raven, etc. Why no armour? Folks still ride in town. Tumble is the single most powerful skill, bar none. There's rules for urban rangers in some of the books- er Races of Destiny?
Darth Sephiroth 05-02-06, 01:47 PM	The no armor and spellcasting has to do with the character concept and the same with the animal companion. The character has a decent wisdom for tracking people. The character favors acrobatics rather than armor and isn't able to cast spells. The Animal Companion ability just doesn't fit the character. He's going to be a fast and agile ranged weapons expert. (Plunging Shot is one of the feats he's definately got.) The Urban Ranger just felt the closest to the concept and I'd like it to fit better rather than just wasting abilities that don't fit him.
The_Shaman 05-02-06, 04:39 PM	Why don't you focus on a swashbuckler with a level or two of ranger, then, potentially going to duelist? That seems closest to the way you interpret the class, imo. You can take a few levels of urban ranger for the tracking.
Darth Sephiroth 05-02-06, 04:49 PM	I'm going for a ranged focus for combat skills, namely an acrobatic fighting style most similar to Vincent Valentines in Advent Children, though a lot less Wuxiaish
The_Shaman 05-02-06, 05:52 PM	I'd still say a swashbuckler can fit the style better. Not all of them swagger around with rapiers, you know... in fact, they need not swagger at all. Without the connection to nature, and without the emphasis on stealth, I don't really see that much left of the ranger, really. Anyway, GL in doing it, I hope my idea helps a bit. If you do look for a swashie, at least to complement the acrobatic style, there are a few ideas in the PrC department that may fit the concept better than the CW one and that have various weapon styles you may like for your char.
danielinthewolvesden 05-02-06, 05:56 PM	Nearly every character class has a "wasted" class ability or two that doesn't fit your PC concept, that doesn't mean you get anything back. However, a swashbuckler or rogue fits what you have told us better than a ranger. In fact, you are using few of the rangers class abilities from what I see. :confused:
Darth Sephiroth 05-02-06, 08:00 PM	Primarily it is the Spellcasting and Animal Companion that seem wasted, Rogue just doesn't seem to quite fit. Anyway I worked it out as a full class (Thanks Ghostwheel for the name idea). Urban Stalker (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=9079481)