Aristocrat as a pc class [P.E.A.C.H.] [Archive] - Wizards Community

Aristocrat as a pc class [P.E.A.C.H.] [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Nightshade
10-25-07, 11:02 AM The Aristocrat
Background: Requires circumstances of birth; No one may multi-class into Aristocrat without such circumstances or upon obtaining title.
HD: d8
Class Skills
Appraise, Bluff, Diplomacy, Disguise, Forgery, Gather Information, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Knowledge (all skills taken individually), Listen, Perform, Ride, Sense Motive, Speak Language, Spot, Swim, and Survival.
Skill Points: 4 + (Int mod) (x4 at 1st level)

Class Features
Proficiencies: All Armor, All Shields excluding Tower, All Simple and Martial weapons

Aristocrat Table
Level BAB Fort Sv Ref Sv Will Sv Special
1 1 2 0 2 Bonus Feat
2 2 3 0 3 Bonus Feat
3 3 3 1 3 -
4 4 4 1 4 Inspire Courage +1
5 5 4 1 4 -
6 6/1 5 2 5 Bonus Feat
7 7/2 5 2 5 -
8 8/3 6 2 6 Leadership
9 9/4 6 3 6 -
10 10/5 7 3 7 Inspire Courage +2
11 11/6/1 7 3 7 -
12 12/7/2 8 4 8 Bonus Feat
13 13/8/3 8 4 8 -
14 14/9/4 9 4 9 Bonus Feat
15 15/10/5 9 5 9 -
16 16/11/6/1 10 5 10 Inspire Courage +3
17 17/12/7/2 10 5 10 -
18 18/13/8/3 11 6 11 Bonus Feat
19 19/14/9/4 11 6 11 -
20 20/15/10/5 12 6 12 Bonus Feat

Inspire Courage: See Bard, except replace Perform skill with Diplomacy.

Bonus Feats: Fighter only equivalent feats, except an Aristocrat does not qualify for the weapon focus tree fighter only feats, such as weapon specialization, GWF, and GWS.
R4za
10-25-07, 11:12 AM Solid two level dip, beyond that a bit dull. It has little in the way of class features, and even if it makes up for it with decent scores in basic stats like BAB, saves, skills and bonus feats, that might balance the power a bit but it still isn't much of a class.

'Course, that's the fighter for you in a nutshel. Compared to that, this is actually not half bad.
imakuni67
10-25-07, 11:28 AM Aristocrat does not equal a full base attack bonus to me. They are more social skills and power struggle/manipulation than beat the snot out of you type of role. This just doesn't have any flavor to me, as it's just a fighter with a weak inspire courage.

To build a better lordly class, look at the marshal class, the lord class from dragonlance and the one from star wars.
Leress
10-25-07, 11:37 AM I would have to agree with R4za. There is nothing beyond the first two levels.
bkdubs123
10-25-07, 12:49 PM agreeing. any aristocrat worth his salt should have 6 sp per level. try going for a fusion between the bard and the marshall. medium bab, 6 skills per level, all weapon and armor proficiency with little inspirey bits sprinkled on top along with some interaction abilities. LESS BONUS FEATS. That's the Fighter's domain, the Aristocrat is not a Fighter.

That being said... the Aristocrat, or the Noble, really shouldn't be PC classes. If you want an NPC with an entourage of lackeys roll him up as a Green Ronin Noble (Noble's Handbook) or as an NPC with Leadership. If you want a PC with noble heritage or birth, but whom has strode away from the political life roll him up as whatever you want and explain that he is of noble birth.
JulesCARV
10-25-07, 02:24 PM I'm curious: why all knowledge skills except knowledge (arcana)? Is there some reason aristocrats aren't into arcane knowledge?

I'll dissent from the consensus here and say that I actually think full base attack bonus is fine. For someone who's more focused on the social side, there are already a variety of classes like bards, beguilers, marshals, and other capable social classes already. What D&D lacks, IMHO, is a "courtly knight" figure: it has warriors who can smack people and are otherwise rather unskilled (barbarian, fighter, knight, paladin). It has a warrior who can track through the wilderness and has similar survival skills (ranger). It has the new Tome of Battle classes, which have reasonable skill points but a somewhat limited array of class skills in terms of things like appraise, forgery, disguise, perform, sense motive, knowledge (nobility and royalty), speak language, and bluff.

BTW, my personal attempt at the aristocrat-equivalent-as-PC-class is the kshatriya (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=823979).
bkdubs123
10-25-07, 10:26 PM While I'd agree with Jules that there is a certain lack of Courtly Knight, the Courtly Knight is not the Aristocrat. The Courtly Knight is either a Knight or a Paladin whom has taken on skills in diplomacy, bluff, knowledge (nobility and royalty), and maybe perform or sense motive. Sure a couple of those might be cross-class, but that doesn't mean anything. Grab skill focus so you can fit your character type it isn't really a huge deal.

An Aristocrat is a Lord or Duke or Baron or perhaps even a King's Advisor. Someone who doesn't necessarily fight much at all, but who has likely been trained for combat (medium BAB). They should have a good selection of skills, and proficiency with weapons and armors, but they don't need full BAB, they need class features based on politics/bureaucracy/social affairs.
Nightshade
10-25-07, 11:16 PM All good comments. I meant to erase the excluding arcana reference for the boards. The world I'm playing in is a frontier one with low magic (hence the exclusion of arcana) where Aristocrats actually do alot of leading and fighting alongside their soldiers. One more reason they've got access to the Inspire Courage ability and full BAB.

This aristocrat pc is meant to be slightly weaker than a fighter featwise and in HD but replace those with skills and inspire courage. I was also thinking about replacing the level 8 bonus feat with Leadership. Keep the comments coming.
JulesCARV
10-26-07, 02:21 PM While I'd agree with Jules that there is a certain lack of Courtly Knight, the Courtly Knight is not the Aristocrat. The Courtly Knight is either a Knight or a Paladin whom has taken on skills in diplomacy, bluff, knowledge (nobility and royalty), and maybe perform or sense motive. Sure a couple of those might be cross-class, but that doesn't mean anything. Grab skill focus so you can fit your character type it isn't really a huge deal.

Two problems:

1) Neither the paladin nor the knight have high skill points, and neither can ordinarily afford to make intelligence a high priority, and neither have the needed class skills: for instance, they both lack speak language, bluff, perform, and forgery.

2) Both the paladin and the knight have alignment restrictions, forbidding neutral or chaotic characters. This means that if you want to play a chaotic courtly knight-type character -- think Jaime Lannister, for instance -- paladin and knight won't do.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Nightshade 10-25-07, 11:02 AM	The Aristocrat Background: Requires circumstances of birth; No one may multi-class into Aristocrat without such circumstances or upon obtaining title. HD: d8 Class Skills Appraise, Bluff, Diplomacy, Disguise, Forgery, Gather Information, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Knowledge (all skills taken individually), Listen, Perform, Ride, Sense Motive, Speak Language, Spot, Swim, and Survival. Skill Points: 4 + (Int mod) (x4 at 1st level) Class Features Proficiencies: All Armor, All Shields excluding Tower, All Simple and Martial weapons Aristocrat Table Level BAB Fort Sv Ref Sv Will Sv Special 1 1 2 0 2 Bonus Feat 2 2 3 0 3 Bonus Feat 3 3 3 1 3 - 4 4 4 1 4 Inspire Courage +1 5 5 4 1 4 - 6 6/1 5 2 5 Bonus Feat 7 7/2 5 2 5 - 8 8/3 6 2 6 Leadership 9 9/4 6 3 6 - 10 10/5 7 3 7 Inspire Courage +2 11 11/6/1 7 3 7 - 12 12/7/2 8 4 8 Bonus Feat 13 13/8/3 8 4 8 - 14 14/9/4 9 4 9 Bonus Feat 15 15/10/5 9 5 9 - 16 16/11/6/1 10 5 10 Inspire Courage +3 17 17/12/7/2 10 5 10 - 18 18/13/8/3 11 6 11 Bonus Feat 19 19/14/9/4 11 6 11 - 20 20/15/10/5 12 6 12 Bonus Feat Inspire Courage: See Bard, except replace Perform skill with Diplomacy. Bonus Feats: Fighter only equivalent feats, except an Aristocrat does not qualify for the weapon focus tree fighter only feats, such as weapon specialization, GWF, and GWS.
R4za 10-25-07, 11:12 AM	Solid two level dip, beyond that a bit dull. It has little in the way of class features, and even if it makes up for it with decent scores in basic stats like BAB, saves, skills and bonus feats, that might balance the power a bit but it still isn't much of a class. 'Course, that's the fighter for you in a nutshel. Compared to that, this is actually not half bad.
imakuni67 10-25-07, 11:28 AM	Aristocrat does not equal a full base attack bonus to me. They are more social skills and power struggle/manipulation than beat the snot out of you type of role. This just doesn't have any flavor to me, as it's just a fighter with a weak inspire courage. To build a better lordly class, look at the marshal class, the lord class from dragonlance and the one from star wars.
Leress 10-25-07, 11:37 AM	I would have to agree with R4za. There is nothing beyond the first two levels.
bkdubs123 10-25-07, 12:49 PM	agreeing. any aristocrat worth his salt should have 6 sp per level. try going for a fusion between the bard and the marshall. medium bab, 6 skills per level, all weapon and armor proficiency with little inspirey bits sprinkled on top along with some interaction abilities. LESS BONUS FEATS. That's the Fighter's domain, the Aristocrat is not a Fighter. That being said... the Aristocrat, or the Noble, really shouldn't be PC classes. If you want an NPC with an entourage of lackeys roll him up as a Green Ronin Noble (Noble's Handbook) or as an NPC with Leadership. If you want a PC with noble heritage or birth, but whom has strode away from the political life roll him up as whatever you want and explain that he is of noble birth.
JulesCARV 10-25-07, 02:24 PM	I'm curious: why all knowledge skills except knowledge (arcana)? Is there some reason aristocrats aren't into arcane knowledge? I'll dissent from the consensus here and say that I actually think full base attack bonus is fine. For someone who's more focused on the social side, there are already a variety of classes like bards, beguilers, marshals, and other capable social classes already. What D&D lacks, IMHO, is a "courtly knight" figure: it has warriors who can smack people and are otherwise rather unskilled (barbarian, fighter, knight, paladin). It has a warrior who can track through the wilderness and has similar survival skills (ranger). It has the new Tome of Battle classes, which have reasonable skill points but a somewhat limited array of class skills in terms of things like appraise, forgery, disguise, perform, sense motive, knowledge (nobility and royalty), speak language, and bluff. BTW, my personal attempt at the aristocrat-equivalent-as-PC-class is the kshatriya (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=823979).
bkdubs123 10-25-07, 10:26 PM	While I'd agree with Jules that there is a certain lack of Courtly Knight, the Courtly Knight is not the Aristocrat. The Courtly Knight is either a Knight or a Paladin whom has taken on skills in diplomacy, bluff, knowledge (nobility and royalty), and maybe perform or sense motive. Sure a couple of those might be cross-class, but that doesn't mean anything. Grab skill focus so you can fit your character type it isn't really a huge deal. An Aristocrat is a Lord or Duke or Baron or perhaps even a King's Advisor. Someone who doesn't necessarily fight much at all, but who has likely been trained for combat (medium BAB). They should have a good selection of skills, and proficiency with weapons and armors, but they don't need full BAB, they need class features based on politics/bureaucracy/social affairs.
Nightshade 10-25-07, 11:16 PM	All good comments. I meant to erase the excluding arcana reference for the boards. The world I'm playing in is a frontier one with low magic (hence the exclusion of arcana) where Aristocrats actually do alot of leading and fighting alongside their soldiers. One more reason they've got access to the Inspire Courage ability and full BAB. This aristocrat pc is meant to be slightly weaker than a fighter featwise and in HD but replace those with skills and inspire courage. I was also thinking about replacing the level 8 bonus feat with Leadership. Keep the comments coming.
JulesCARV 10-26-07, 02:21 PM	While I'd agree with Jules that there is a certain lack of Courtly Knight, the Courtly Knight is not the Aristocrat. The Courtly Knight is either a Knight or a Paladin whom has taken on skills in diplomacy, bluff, knowledge (nobility and royalty), and maybe perform or sense motive. Sure a couple of those might be cross-class, but that doesn't mean anything. Grab skill focus so you can fit your character type it isn't really a huge deal. Two problems: 1) Neither the paladin nor the knight have high skill points, and neither can ordinarily afford to make intelligence a high priority, and neither have the needed class skills: for instance, they both lack speak language, bluff, perform, and forgery. 2) Both the paladin and the knight have alignment restrictions, forbidding neutral or chaotic characters. This means that if you want to play a chaotic courtly knight-type character -- think Jaime Lannister, for instance -- paladin and knight won't do.