Artificer + Core D&D [Archive] - Wizards Community

Artificer + Core D&D [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ravenofein
08-15-06, 01:04 PM I know the Artificer is from the Eberron campaign world but is there anything keeping it from the core world? Since I have only played in the core and FR campaign settings, I don't know if there are any impacts.

It seems as though this class exist in the core world but they are just hign mages with the selected feats. Any input would be appreciated.
Mitchell
08-16-06, 04:07 AM If the DM allows it, I know of nothing that would prevent it from functioning in a non-Eberron setting.
Of course, this assumes that they keep all of their abilities and the DM doesn't say "Okay, but they can't have a homunculous, create infusions, or use their craft reserve.".
Several classes/PrCs were designed with a particular setting in mind, but easily port over to another setting with minimal, if any, modifications.
Dr_Draco
08-16-06, 05:04 AM The only thing to work out would be action points. Just figure out how to remove those from a couple of the Artificer's abilities, then BAM!, you've got a non-Eberron base class ;).
Dr. Benway
08-16-06, 05:59 AM The only thing to work out would be action points. Just figure out how to remove those from a couple of the Artificer's abilities, then BAM!, you've got a non-Eberron base class ;).

Or just include them in your game since they rock the casbah :D

DocB
:88E: vs :coolcthul who shall prevail?
travellersside
08-16-06, 11:24 AM Artificers don't even have any Action Point abilities in the first place.
Sure, they can get some, but so can anyone else, so it doesn't make any real difference.
The only use for an action point that an artificer has, and others don't, is to speed up the casting time for an infusion from a minute to a round, and it's not exactly a class feature, since it isn't listed in the class description ;)
Artificers port over pretty well.
LordBritish2
08-16-06, 01:03 PM Just watch out for the construction abilities of the artificer. These things can get out of hand is all.
hiryuu
08-16-06, 01:26 PM Artificers don't even have any Action Point abilities in the first place.
Sure, they can get some, but so can anyone else, so it doesn't make any real difference.
The only use for an action point that an artificer has, and others don't, is to speed up the casting time for an infusion from a minute to a round, and it's not exactly a class feature, since it isn't listed in the class description ;)
Artificers port over pretty well.

Yeah, but it's almost the only way to make infusions useful in any sort of combat.

I don't think there's any problem with artificers in standard; someone had to make all those +1 longswords you find everywhere.
travellersside
08-17-06, 04:35 AM [QUOTE=hiryuu]Yeah, but it's almost the only way to make infusions useful in any sort of combat.
/QUOTE]

It's called "planning ahead", and not using the Action Point Speed-up option actually reduces artificer abuses, so that's not a bad thing. (who doesn't love the on-the-fly customisation of magic items during a battle? "What, the elf is actually a disguised illithid? Quick, make me a Bane-sword!" Fighter delays, 1AP and 1 round later, he's got one.) Anyway, most infusions have a decent duration, and I've always thought that grabbing 'Extend' was a no-brainer for them anyway.

Another interesting / amusing tidbit is that, if a regular wizard (for example) crafts an item, due to the fact that it costs xp, he can temporarily end up at a lower level than the others, and then actually end up gaining more total xp, thus turning a net profit. I've seen some rather complex calculations on the best ways to exploit this.
It's harder for artificers to do this trick, because they can't spend xp until they run out of craft reserve ;)
periscope
08-17-06, 05:34 PM How? From what I've heard and read, you cant sack so much exp that you end up losing a level.
Artector
08-17-06, 06:35 PM How? From what I've heard and read, you cant sack so much exp that you end up losing a level.

You can choose to not go up a level.

If you don't use Action Points I'd suggest giving them a x/day variant for rapid infusing something like:
Rapid Infusion: At 5th level the artificer once per day may use any infusion with a casting time of 1 minute in 1 round. This increases by +1/day every 5th level. (5th 1/day, 10th 2/day 15th...).

I can't remember the rules exactly so this might need rewording, otherwise it'd work and wouldn't be unbalancing. (I think.)
hiryuu
08-17-06, 07:19 PM It's called "planning ahead", and not using the Action Point Speed-up option actually reduces artificer abuses, so that's not a bad thing. (who doesn't love the on-the-fly customisation of magic items during a battle? "What, the elf is actually a disguised illithid? Quick, make me a Bane-sword!" Fighter delays, 1AP and 1 round later, he's got one.) Anyway, most infusions have a decent duration, and I've always thought that grabbing 'Extend' was a no-brainer for them anyway.

"Planning ahead" requires "knowing about the combat ahead of time." Nine out of ten combats ought to be surprises on all sides (both PC and NPC). "Planning ahead" to me means "three weeks preparation." Everything else is by the seat of your pants, as random circumstances and chance tend to throw wrenches into everything.

"1 minute per level" is not a "decent duration" when trying to plan your combats.
blueatari
08-17-06, 08:18 PM does anyone else have any suggestions on a replacement for the action points? most of the combat in my usual campaigns is sudden and an artificer wouldnt have the opportunity to use many (if any) infusions in a given day.

i was thinkin of maybe something as simple as the artificer having something like action points, but not as many, and be limited to using a max of 1/day (basically like the rapid infusion feat from MoE, but this feat would stack with the points)

maybe Int mod + 1/4 artificer lvl (min 1) per lvl (like action points, any used before leveling are lost and a new pool of points(lets call them "Artifice points" to keep with the AP abbreviation))

what do you guys think?

any suggestions?
blueatari
08-17-06, 09:11 PM *nudge*
blueatari
08-18-06, 10:41 PM bump
periscope
08-19-06, 02:25 AM I personally would keep the action point system and give it to all players (what hero from comics, tv, movies, or books didn't owe a large portion of the victory to luck, look at Eragon and how he killed Durza. That was luck at its highest point). But if you dont want to do that, I would make it Charisma and not Int based because the Artificer is more of a charisma type.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ravenofein 08-15-06, 01:04 PM	I know the Artificer is from the Eberron campaign world but is there anything keeping it from the core world? Since I have only played in the core and FR campaign settings, I don't know if there are any impacts. It seems as though this class exist in the core world but they are just hign mages with the selected feats. Any input would be appreciated.
Mitchell 08-16-06, 04:07 AM	If the DM allows it, I know of nothing that would prevent it from functioning in a non-Eberron setting. Of course, this assumes that they keep all of their abilities and the DM doesn't say "Okay, but they can't have a homunculous, create infusions, or use their craft reserve.". Several classes/PrCs were designed with a particular setting in mind, but easily port over to another setting with minimal, if any, modifications.
Dr_Draco 08-16-06, 05:04 AM	The only thing to work out would be action points. Just figure out how to remove those from a couple of the Artificer's abilities, then BAM!, you've got a non-Eberron base class ;).
Dr. Benway 08-16-06, 05:59 AM	The only thing to work out would be action points. Just figure out how to remove those from a couple of the Artificer's abilities, then BAM!, you've got a non-Eberron base class ;). Or just include them in your game since they rock the casbah :D DocB :88E: vs :coolcthul who shall prevail?
travellersside 08-16-06, 11:24 AM	Artificers don't even have any Action Point abilities in the first place. Sure, they can get some, but so can anyone else, so it doesn't make any real difference. The only use for an action point that an artificer has, and others don't, is to speed up the casting time for an infusion from a minute to a round, and it's not exactly a class feature, since it isn't listed in the class description ;) Artificers port over pretty well.
LordBritish2 08-16-06, 01:03 PM	Just watch out for the construction abilities of the artificer. These things can get out of hand is all.
hiryuu 08-16-06, 01:26 PM	Artificers don't even have any Action Point abilities in the first place. Sure, they can get some, but so can anyone else, so it doesn't make any real difference. The only use for an action point that an artificer has, and others don't, is to speed up the casting time for an infusion from a minute to a round, and it's not exactly a class feature, since it isn't listed in the class description ;) Artificers port over pretty well. Yeah, but it's almost the only way to make infusions useful in any sort of combat. I don't think there's any problem with artificers in standard; someone had to make all those +1 longswords you find everywhere.
travellersside 08-17-06, 04:35 AM	[QUOTE=hiryuu]Yeah, but it's almost the only way to make infusions useful in any sort of combat. /QUOTE] It's called "planning ahead", and not using the Action Point Speed-up option actually reduces artificer abuses, so that's not a bad thing. (who doesn't love the on-the-fly customisation of magic items during a battle? "What, the elf is actually a disguised illithid? Quick, make me a Bane-sword!" Fighter delays, 1AP and 1 round later, he's got one.) Anyway, most infusions have a decent duration, and I've always thought that grabbing 'Extend' was a no-brainer for them anyway. Another interesting / amusing tidbit is that, if a regular wizard (for example) crafts an item, due to the fact that it costs xp, he can temporarily end up at a lower level than the others, and then actually end up gaining more total xp, thus turning a net profit. I've seen some rather complex calculations on the best ways to exploit this. It's harder for artificers to do this trick, because they can't spend xp until they run out of craft reserve ;)
periscope 08-17-06, 05:34 PM	How? From what I've heard and read, you cant sack so much exp that you end up losing a level.
Artector 08-17-06, 06:35 PM	How? From what I've heard and read, you cant sack so much exp that you end up losing a level. You can choose to not go up a level. If you don't use Action Points I'd suggest giving them a x/day variant for rapid infusing something like: Rapid Infusion: At 5th level the artificer once per day may use any infusion with a casting time of 1 minute in 1 round. This increases by +1/day every 5th level. (5th 1/day, 10th 2/day 15th...). I can't remember the rules exactly so this might need rewording, otherwise it'd work and wouldn't be unbalancing. (I think.)
hiryuu 08-17-06, 07:19 PM	It's called "planning ahead", and not using the Action Point Speed-up option actually reduces artificer abuses, so that's not a bad thing. (who doesn't love the on-the-fly customisation of magic items during a battle? "What, the elf is actually a disguised illithid? Quick, make me a Bane-sword!" Fighter delays, 1AP and 1 round later, he's got one.) Anyway, most infusions have a decent duration, and I've always thought that grabbing 'Extend' was a no-brainer for them anyway. "Planning ahead" requires "knowing about the combat ahead of time." Nine out of ten combats ought to be surprises on all sides (both PC and NPC). "Planning ahead" to me means "three weeks preparation." Everything else is by the seat of your pants, as random circumstances and chance tend to throw wrenches into everything. "1 minute per level" is not a "decent duration" when trying to plan your combats.
blueatari 08-17-06, 08:18 PM	does anyone else have any suggestions on a replacement for the action points? most of the combat in my usual campaigns is sudden and an artificer wouldnt have the opportunity to use many (if any) infusions in a given day. i was thinkin of maybe something as simple as the artificer having something like action points, but not as many, and be limited to using a max of 1/day (basically like the rapid infusion feat from MoE, but this feat would stack with the points) maybe Int mod + 1/4 artificer lvl (min 1) per lvl (like action points, any used before leveling are lost and a new pool of points(lets call them "Artifice points" to keep with the AP abbreviation)) what do you guys think? any suggestions?
blueatari 08-17-06, 09:11 PM	nudge
blueatari 08-18-06, 10:41 PM	bump
periscope 08-19-06, 02:25 AM	I personally would keep the action point system and give it to all players (what hero from comics, tv, movies, or books didn't owe a large portion of the victory to luck, look at Eragon and how he killed Durza. That was luck at its highest point). But if you dont want to do that, I would make it Charisma and not Int based because the Artificer is more of a charisma type.