Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Aryxbez 11-08-06, 10:31 PM	Aryxbezian Fighter NOTE: Please don't post here as this thread is dead. The only reason I keep this is to remind me of the Feat Advancement system I may someday implement into my games. Beyond that there are better fighter threads out there such as the fighter created by otto the bugbear Or Seerow I call it this because i hope it will became famous in some way. Whether it is liked as a great idea, or thought of the worst idea to ever exist. I thought to keep the whole idea of fighters get feats, and i liked the idea of them being warriors who are master of weapons. then the feat advancement I thought as a good idea to hopefully, balance the fighter finally. NOTE: this is NOT souly my creation, most of it, the weapon style idea and the skills, came from Kaligrad and i hope he will post here for comments and credit. Also so he can help me finish his weapon styles The only thing i did was the feat advancement, and putting the feats into normal order and the feat lists. Post for any feats that you want to see whether or not they will get an advancement Base Fort Ref Will Level Attack Bonus Save Save Save Special 1st +1 +2 +0 +0 Weapon Style Feat upgrade 2nd +2 +3 +0 +0 Bonus feat 3rd +3 +3 +1 +1 weapon training 4th +4 +4 +1 +1 Bonus Feat Feat upgrade 5th +5 +4 +1 +1 Weapon Style, 6th +6/+1 +5 +2 +2 Bonus Feat, 7th +7/+2 +5 +2 +2 Feat upgrade 8th +8/+3 +6 +2 +2 Bonus Feat 9th +9/+4 +6 +3 +3 10th +10/+5 +7 +3 +3 Weapon Style, Bonus Feat, Feat upgrade 11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +3 +3 12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +4 +4 Bonus Feat 13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +4 +4 Feat upgrade 14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +4 +4 Bonus feat 15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +5 +5 Weapon Style, Bonus Feat 16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +5 +5 Bonus Feat Feat upgrade 17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +5 18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +6 Bonus Feat 19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +6 Feat upgrade 20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +6 Weapon Style BonusFeat Skills: The fighter's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Ride (Dex), Spot (Wis),Use Rope, and Swim (Str). Skill points at 1st level: 4+Int modifier x 4 (etc.) HD:d10 Class Features All of the following are class features of the Aryxbezian Fighter. Armor and Weapon Proficiencies: A fighter is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, and with all armor (light, medium, heavy) and all shields (including tower shields). Bonus Feats: just like the same feature for the fighter in the PHB Weapon Style: As they advance in level, fighters find themselves able to do certain extraordinary things that set them apart from the regular warriors. At first level, as well as every fifth level (5, 10, 15, 20), fighters may pick from the list of available styles. Despite being named after weapons, the styles may be used with any weapon the fighter is proficent in, unless otherwise stated. Also, you pick a style at the certain levels 1,5,10,15,and 20, also at those specified levels take a lower level style Example: can take level 1 sword ability at 5th level. He is not limited to one style tree. All abilities are extraordinary unless noted otherwise. Feat Upgrade:As the fighter advances, so does his feats,starting at 1st level and 3 levels thereafterfeats the aryxbezian fighter has upgrades, so if aryxbezian fighter had mobility and weapon focus, they would both upgrade at the same time and gain the benefits according to the feat advancements or "uppers"( calledfor shortness) Weapon Training:can trade out your weaponfocus feat to another weapon by spending 30 minutes doing so. Example wpn focus (spiked chain) and the exotic feat, can change them both to longaxe and thus have weapon focusl Longaxe and the feat. also applies to weapon specialization supremacy and all that. 1st level: Sword Disarming Strike Shield Shield Rush Axe Bleeding Wound Hammer Staggering Blow Dagger Evasion Double Double Weapon Familiarity 5th level: Sword Disarming Response Shield Turtle Stance Axe Open Wound Hammer Concussive Strike Dagger Poison Use Double Stab Extention 10th level: Sword Mobile Supremecy Shield Improved Uncanny Dodge Axe Crippling Wound Hammer Ground Pound Dagger 5d6 Sneak Attack Double Hurricane Wind 15th level: Sword Wearing them Down Shield Unstoppable Axe Deadly Wound Hammer Forceful Swing Dagger Death Attack Double Double Whirlwind Attack 20th level: Sword Weapon Aground Shield Defensive versatility Axe Fatal Wound Hammer Punishing Blow Dagger Cheap Shot Double Tornado Strike Sword Styles: 1st Disarming Strike: The fighter gets Improved Disarm as the feat. Additionally, when the fighter is wielding a light or one handed weapon with nothing in his off hand, if he disarms an opponent in melee combat, he immediately gets a melee attack against that opponent as if he hadn’t used his attack for the disarm attempt. 5th Disarming Response: The fighter may make a disarm attack against any opponent who moves through his threatened area as an immediate action. This is irregardless as to whether or not that opponent would have provoked an attack of opportunity, but it does count as one of the fighter's attacks of opportunity that round. If the opponent intends to attack anyone, or was charging, the fighter may resolve his disarm attempt before the attack, though the opponent may then decide not to attack (the opponent does not get to choose another action, however). 10th Mobile Supremacy: When the fighter is wielding a light or one handed weapon with nothing in his off hand, When he makes a successful disarm he may spend a attack of oppurtunity to make another disarm to another foe or the same foe, this ability does not give additional attacks of oppurtunity, however with combat reflexes can use ability again if you disarm successfully. alternatively he may instead use cleave or the great cleave as a substitute if he has those feats which means every time you disarm you can "cleave" to disarm another foe and again etc. Also can use this ability with Supreme Cleave ability 15th Wearing them Down: When the fighter is wielding a light or one handed weapon with nothing in his off hand, every successful attack by him will lower his opponent's AC by 2 until the end of his next round. 20th Weapon aground:When the fighter is wielding a light or one handed weapon with nothing in his off hand. Every successful disarm made causes the weapon with great force to be stuck in the ground. In order to get the weapon out of the ground, must make a str check DC20 as a move action, and it provokes an attack of oppurtunity. Also this abiltiy can be combined with mobile supremacy Shield Styles: 1st Shield Rush: A fighter considers shields one size catagory larger for the purposes of shield bashing. If the shield is spiked, he considers it two catagories larger. 5th Turtle Stance: A fighter may wield two shields, and both sets of bonuses stack. Also, he gains Agile Shield Fighter, but only while wielding two shields in this manner. Also the virtual feat does not upgrade 10th Improved Uncanny Dodge: As the ability of the barbarian and rogue. 15th Unstoppable:The Fighter learns techniques to make himself as tough as his shield. For three rounds in an encounter plus one additional round per upper(10 rounds at 19th lv), the Fighter is immune to disease, poison, ability drain, ability damage, death effects, blindness, deafness, dazzlement, dazing, sleep effects, nausea, fear effects, paralysis, stunning, and has the effects of the Diehard feat on him. Activating this power is a move action, and the rounds must be consecutive. 20th Defensive versatility:The Fighters shield is his essential tool to toughen against the pestilence of demons and spellcasters, to block the explosions of spells and stop traps from touching thee. finally to use his shield to block outside influences or to smack his head and reawaken his senses. As a Shield bonus you gain a bonus to all your saves equal to your shield bonus Enchacement is included however, using the defending property with the enhancements as a weapon do not stack towards the save (example: you have a +3 Hvyshield, but as a wpn= a +4 defending Hvyshield, the +3 as armor and the natural +2 to shield=+5 to all saves however using the defending to get anogther +3 to saves will not stack) Axe Styles: 1st Bleeding Wound:When wielding a axe, those that are axes as follows:handaxe,throwingaxe,battleaxe,wa raxe,greataxe,halberd,longaxe, dwarven urgosh, and the Double orc axe. The fighter with this ability may deal one additional point of bleeding damage per fighter level. This ability can only be used once per encounter for every two class levels the fighter has, and the fighter must declare his attempt before rolling to attack. Note that creatures that don't bleed (undead, constructs, etc.) are immune to the effects of this ability. 5th Open Wound:When wielding a Axe The fighter with this ability can deal an additional 1d4 temporary Con damage with a successful attack. This ability can only be used once per encounter for every four class levels the fighter has, and the fighter must declare his attempt before rolling to attack. 10th Crippling Wound:When wielding a axe The fighter with this ability can deal an additional 1d6 Con and Dex damage with a successful attack. This ability can only be used once per encounter for every six class levels the fighter has, and the fighter must declare his attempt before rolling to attack. 15th Deadly Wound:When wielding a axe The fighter with this ability can deal an additional 2d6 Con, Dex, and Str damage with a successful attack. This ability can only be used once per encounter per 3 uppers, and the fighter must declare his attempt before rolling to attack. 20th Fatal Wound: The fighter chooses a weapon, in the same manner as Weapon Focus. From then on, the weapon is considered vorpal in the fighter's hands. (Assume that a bludgeoning weapon staves in the head, and that a piercing weapon stabs the heart) If already have vorpal like the enchantment or the ability(somehow) then you can vorp them as long as you crit and confirm Addtionally, if you deal massive damage then make a confirmation roll to vorp them as well Hammer Styles: 1st Staggering Blow:when using a one-handed or 2-handed bludgeoning weapon. the fighter may take a penalty to his attack roll the maximum penalty being his BAB , he may make a free bull rush attempt on the target after a successful hit gaining a bonus to the bullrush equal to the penalty taken, without any attack of opportunity. Additionally, however far the bull rush pushes the target, the fighter does not move from his current spot. Also if fighter already has powerattack, the bonus to bull rush is doubled (2-handed weapon powerattacking gives no additonal bonuses to bullrush) This ability can be used once per day per upper(max 5 at 13th lv) 5th Concussive Strike:When the fighter wields a one-handed or 2-handed Bludgeoning weapon The fighter with this ability may deal an additional 1d6 Int damage upon a successful attack. This ability can only be used once per encounter per upper(max 5 at 17th lv starts at 7th), and the fighter must declare his use of this ability before rolling to attack thus a miss is a failed attempt. 10th Ground Pound (Su):When wielding a one-handed or 2-handed blugeoning weapon By striking the ground, the fighter causes a shockwave to extend around him. With a standard action, the fighter deals 1d6 damage per class level to everything within 40ft of him (max 20d6) that is in contact with the ground. This ability can only be used once per encounter. 15th Forceful Swing (Su): With this ability, the fighter can swing his weapon so hard that the very air vibrates. Once per encounter, the fighter may use a standard action to swing his weapon, causing a 60ft cone of sonic damage. The damage is 1d6 per character level (max 25d6). 20th Punishing Blow: Once per encounter, after rolling a successful attack but before rolling damage, the fighter may use this ability to add 10d6 untyped damage to the attack. Damage Resistance does not apply to this damage. Dagger Styles: 1st Evasion: As the rogue or monk ability. 5th Trick of the knife: The fighter with this ability can feint as a move action, if fighter has Improved Feint feat, he can feint as a swift action 10th Sneak Attack: The fighter automatically gains 5d6 sneak attack, as though he were a level 10 rogue. This sneak attack does not improve, though it does stack with any rogue levels. 15th Death Attack: as the assassin ability of the same name. The DC is 10+1/2 fighter level+fighters Int modifier [ B]20th Cheap Shot[/B]: If the fighter attacks a flatfooted or flanked target (or else any time the opponent is denied her Dex modifier), he may declare the use of this ability before attacking. If the attack hits, his opponent is nausiated for five rounds, no save. Double Weapon Styles: 1st Double Weapon Familiarity: The fighter who takes this ability automatically gains Exotic Weapon Proficency with double weapons per upper (7 double weapons at 19th lv) 5th double lightning: If the fighter is wielding a double weapon, He can now finesse with it. if the fighter has the weapon finesse feat or gets it later, he applies extra damage equal to his dexterity modifier(in the form of a dex bonus obviously) Furthermore, your offhand attacks deal normal strength damage,Whether finessed or not. 10th Double Whirlwind Attack: If the fighter has the Whirlwind Attack feat, he may now make two attacks per target instead; first with his main weapon, then with his off-hand weapon. 15th Hurricane Wind (Su): By spinning his double weapon rapidly, the fighter can push away his enemies. As a full-round action, a fighter with a double weapon can generate a hurricane force wind in a 60ft cone. This wind is considered to be in effect until the fighter's next round for the purposes of ranged attacks, though everyone affected only needs to save once. 20th Tornado Strike (Su): By spinning his weapon over his head, the fighter can generate a tornado to sweep his enemies away. As a full round action, a fighter with a double weapon can generate a tornado in a 10ft radius around him. Anyone blown away by the wind is thrown 200ft in the air (or however high the roof is) and falls at the normal rate from that point. Also, the fighter is considered to be surrounded by a wind wall spell (though one that does not allow any ranged attack through even ray attacks. area effects such as fire ball will deal half damage ) until his next round. The fighter may use this ability only once per encounter. Polearm Styles: Polearms include:glaive,ranseur,longspear,guisarm e,Lucrene hammer, and other exotic polearms, note:Spiked chains cannot be used with this 1st Close Combat Reach:thanks to your training in the polearm, you can now attack with your polearm adjacent opponents and can switch back to reach at will. so you now threaten adjacent and reach squares 5th cleaving sweep:When wielding a Polearm, gain the cleave feat, if you already have the cleave feat, gain Great Cleave, and even if you have Great cleave, then you get supreme cleave. If you ever get supreme cleave, you have no limit to how many 5ft steps you can take as long as youre attacking it within reach and 5ft step allows you to attack a foe. 10th shadow reach : your polearm supernaturally goes farther than it normally could at the expense of your health. you make extend the reach of your weapon by 5ft per upper(+35ft or 40ft reach total at 19th lv) but you take 5pts of non-lethal damage for every 5ft beyond the normal 10ft, you take the damage at the end of the round. cannot kill your self with this ability also use this ability any time you attack and can change the reach as you see fit up to the maximum. 15th
Aryxbez 11-08-06, 10:32 PM	Uppers=Feat Advancement ability Feats function as normal, but get better as the fighter advances. also the feat advancements being balanced were taken into account Blind-Fight-at 7th level, Invisible attacker does not get the bonuses on ranged attacks at 11th level take no penalty for being blind at 17th level Darkness and Poor visibility no longer reduces your movement Cleave-no change Deflect Arrows-every 3 uppers, can deflect an extra arrow per round 2per round(7th) 3 per round(17th) Dodge-every 2 uppers gain a extra dodge bonus(total) +2(7th),+3(11th),+4(17th) +4 is the max Exotic weapon Prof-no change Far-Shot-No change Great cleave-no change Greater 2-wpn fighting-no change Greater wpn focus-no change and see wpn focus Improved Bullrush-gain an additional +1 bonus to bull rushing per "upper" (+10 max at 17th level) Improved Critical-every 4 uppers, light weapon gets its threat range doubled one-handed gets one, 2-handed get none at all. Example:thinblade 18-20 becomes 15-20 at 17th level, Longsword 19-20 goes to 17-20 when taken then 15-20 at 17th lv Improved Disarm-No change Improved Feint- Feint as a free action at 13th level Improved Grapple-additional +1 to grapple chekcs per "upper"(max +10 at 17th) Improved Overun-additonal +1 to overun chekcs per "upper" (max +10 at 17th) Improved precise shot-no change Improved Sunder-no change (you know why) Improved Trip-+1 to trip per uper or per 2uppers with a weapon (max +10 at 17th lv without a weapon) Manyshot-penalties from shooting more than one are reduced by 2, so shoot 2 arrows=-2, 3 arrows=-4, 4 arrows=-6 mobility- aadditonal +1 to ac vs atk of oppurtunity per "upper" (max +10 at 17th lv) Power-attack-no change(you know why) Quick-draw-no change Rapid Reload-per 3 uppers the following:at 9th level,reload provokes no atk of oppurtunity Reload one step quicker,if already free action can reload as a immediate action(17th) Ride by attack-no change Shot on the run-at 13th lv, make 2 atks 2nd atk at -5,17th lv 3rd atk at -10, at 19th lv make a 4th atk at -15. can only make these attacks if your BAB is enough(Obviously it will) Snatch Arrows-every 3 uppers, can snatch an extra arrow per round 2per round(7th) 3 per round(17th) Stunning Fist- gain an extra +1 to stunning attempts per day per upper Tower Shield Prof-every 3 uppers atk penalties and armor check reduced by one Trample-Overrun 2 extra targets per upper,so if 19th lv=15targets total that can be trampled, assuming the mount can go over that many squares. Two-Wpn Defense-every 3 uppers gain additional +1 to shield ac with 2 wpns. (max+3 at 17th lv however, improved and greater 2-wpn defense buff it as normal= can have +5 shield) Two-wpn fighting-Edit:penalties reduced by 1every 2 "uppers"(-1/-1 with one handed weapon in the offhand or -0/-0 with light weapon in the offhand at 17th lv) Weapon focus-gain additonal +1 to atk rolls per "upper" (max +8 at 19th lv) Weapon Specialization-gain additional +1 to damage per upper (max +8 at 17th lv) Whirl wind attack-no change Edit: PH 2 Feats Acrobatic Stirke-gain an additonal +1 to atk rolls when using the feat per upper (max+10 at 17th lv)Active Shield Def-no change/adaptable flanker-no change Agile shield Fighter-per 3 uppers you can make a extra attack, 2nd atk at -5(9th lv)3rd atk at -10(17th lv) However BaB must be enough for the extral attacks Armor Specialization- at particular levels,DR raises to 13th=3 DR, 17th=4 DR, 19th=5DR Brutal strike-gain +1 to the brutal strikes DC per upper (max +5 at 13th lv) Cometary Collision-gain additional +1 to atk and damage rolls per 2 uppers (max +5atk, +6 damage total at 17th lv) Crossbow Sniper-Gain +1 additional dex to damage per upper(max Dex mod) Crushing strike-no change Dead eye shot- no change Defensive sweep-no change Fiery Fist-per 2 uppers fire damage changes a die 1d8(11th) 1d10(17th) Fiery Ki Defense-per 2 uppers fire damage changes a die 1d8(11th) 1d10(17th) Flay-Gain additional +1 to the fort Dc per upper and deal additional damage per upper (max +5 DC -8 total at 13th/17th lv) Grenadier-Gain additional +1 to atk and damage per upper (max+8 atk and damage total at 19th lv) Intimidating Strike-gain additional +1 to intimidate check per upper(max +5 at 13th lv) Ki-Blast-gain additional +1 to damage with ki blasts per upper(max +5 at 13th lv) Lunging strike-no change Melee evasion- gain additional +1 to the check per upper(max+5 at 13th lv) Melee wpn mastery-no change,and still stacks with the focus feats Penetrating shot-starting at 11th lv, can apply SA,flaming or special effects, to extra targets per upper (max 5 targets at 19th lv) Ranged wpn mastery-no change Rapid blitz-no change Robilars gambit-no change Shield sling-gain additional +5ft to the thrown shields range per upper (max +30ft or 50ft total at 17th lv) Shield Specialization-gain additional +1 to shield bonus per 3 uppers(max+3 at 17th lv) Shield ward-no change Short haft-no change Slashing flurry-no change Tumbling Feint- gain an additional +1 to to the bluff per upper (max +10 total at 13th lv) 2-wpn pounce-no change 2-wpn Rend-starting at 13th lv, rend damage die increases by 2 (13th=1d8,17=1d10,19=1d12) Versatile Unarmed Strike-no change Vexing flanker-gain addditional +1 to atk rolls when flanking per upper (max +10 total at 17th lv) Water splitting stone-starting at 11th lv, and every upper therafter, gain additonal +4 to damage vs DR (max +20 damage total at 19th lv) Weapon Supremacy-no change, for obvious reasons Combat for feats=no change/ Combat Cloak Expert- 1st manever=gain additonal +1 to the shield ac per upper with the cloak, this bonus stacks with the cloaks already present shield bonus(max +5 at 17th lv) Other Tactical Feats-no change Complete Warrior Feats Cavalry charger-no change Combat Brute-no change Defensive strike-gain an additonal +1 to the atk roll when using the feat per upper (max+10 total at 17th lv) Freezing the Lifeblood-11th=DC+2, 13th=DC+1, 17th=DC+1, 19th=DC+1 (+5 total max, at 19th lv) Giantbane-no change Greater 2-wpn Def-no change and stacks with 2-wpn defense Improved buckler defense-no change Improved combat expertise-no change Improved mounted archery-no change Improved rapid shot-no change Improved Toughness-per 3 uppers, gain +1 more hp every lv, update it at level before it also (+3 hp every lv at lv 17th 20th=+60 bonus hp total) Improved 2-wpn def - no change and stacks but greater replaces improved Improved weapon familiarity- no change Phalanx fighting-no change Power critical-starting at 7th lv,gain additional +1 to atk to confirm per upper (+10 max at 19th lv) Prone attack-no change Ranged Disarm- undecided Rapid Stunning-can do a additional stunning per round per 3 uppers (3 stunnings total per round at 19th lv) Shield Charge-no change Shield Slam- will get an advancement soon Weakening touch-no change
Squangos 11-08-06, 10:50 PM	Aryxbezian Fighter I call it this because i hope it will became famous in some way. Whether it is liked as a great idea, or thought of the worst idea to ever exist. I have a variant magic system in development called the Squangostic system (with eventual Squangostic Sorcerors and the like), so I understand where you're coming from. Could you explain how the Feat Upgrade works? It's a bit unclear in my mind right now.
Aryxbez 11-08-06, 11:27 PM	all the feats upgrade at the same time, get the benefits per "upper" which the upper means Feat advancement for short since i don't want to keep typing it every time. so once you level up, you record all those sweet advancements from your feats if any, which i am sure you will have advancements Also if you wish to post me a feat, i will let you know whether or not it gets upgraded, And I will be working on feat lists for the Complete warrior and the PH2, assuming any of the feats get an advancement
Szatany 11-08-06, 11:31 PM	I have a variant magic system in development called the Squangostic system (with eventual Squangostic Sorcerors and the like), so I understand where you're coming from. Could you explain how the Feat Upgrade works? It's a bit unclear in my mind right now. Should I rename ultimate classes to Satanic Classes? :P Why some feats can't be upgraded? Also, I'm not sure what happens if I want to upgrade blind fight at 3rd level. I'm assuming I can't do that? Also, shouldn't 15th level grant: Weapon Style, Feat upgrade instead of Weapon Style, Bonus Feat ?
Squangos 11-08-06, 11:34 PM	Well, to be fair, Szatanyc Classes (or Szatanic, depending on whether you want to keep the name in full). Ah… That big list of stuff in the second post is pretty self-explanatory, so I probably should've waited for it.
Aryxbez 11-08-06, 11:37 PM	So Squangos, what do you think of my Aryxbezain fighter? Do you want any feats for me to judge whether or not they get an advancement?
Squangos 11-08-06, 11:47 PM	My opinion? Rare to be asked that… Well, to be honest, I think the Feat Upgrade thing is a cool idea (since feats don't get better by themselves unlike the class abilities of Wizards and Monks and such), though the arguments for more skill points and Spot and Listen as class skills for Fighters have swayed me somewhat… On the whole, a nice take on improving the basic Fighter class.
Aryxbez 11-09-06, 12:01 AM	thanks for your opinion, i was thinking of making 2+int as normal but keeping the list since fighters focus more on their training than their skills
OneWinged4ngel 11-09-06, 02:07 AM	Why doesn't two-weapon fighting advance? The poor two-weapon fighters are always shafted :( (Unless they're rogues or something ;)) As for skills, those should be *part* of the Fighter's training. Many skills are very useful and appropriate for a combat specialist. The styles look rather weak and... errr... weird (two shields, anyone?) and some really seem far too specialized and esoteric to comprise a few generic styles (such as creating hurricane force winds with a spinning weapon) As for the feat upgrades, I'd have to look at it more closely.
periscope 11-09-06, 02:35 AM	Why doesn't two-weapon fighting advance? The poor two-weapon fighters are always shafted :( (Unless they're rogues or something ;)) As for skills, those should be *part* of the Fighter's training. Many skills are very useful and appropriate for a combat specialist. The styles look rather weak and... errr... weird (two shields, anyone?) and some really seem far too specialized and esoteric to comprise a few generic styles (such as creating hurricane force winds with a spinning weapon) As for the feat upgrades, I'd have to look at it more closely. The 2 shield thing isnt that bad, especially if you get them mithral (at least in our games, we've ruled that weapons and shields made of mithral count as one category lighter for twf, and they also cut the penalties in half on top of that). Combine that with shield spikes, the bashing property, and improved shield bash your are a tank.
OneWinged4ngel 11-09-06, 02:53 AM	The 2 shield thing isnt that bad, especially if you get them mithral (at least in our games, we've ruled that weapons and shields made of mithral count as one category lighter for twf, and they also cut the penalties in half on top of that). Combine that with shield spikes, the bashing property, and improved shield bash your are a tank. This makes it less weird how?
Ruric 11-09-06, 07:36 AM	I like the class a lot. It has potential if it's worked on; the only thing I'd offer right now is to change the name to something... oh... different than your username :rolleyes: Otherwise, :clap:
Aryxbez 11-09-06, 08:15 AM	well the weapon styles are not fully finished, also the weirdness of the abilities is fine since this is a fantasy game after all. Also the name stays since i like it, you don't have to call it the aryxbezian fighter, just maybe when referring to it being good or horrible Also once i get the time, i will give 2-wpn fighting an advancement Otherwise, do you have any feats you want to see an advancement? Or any other things to finish the class?
PrinceCurtis 11-09-06, 08:21 PM	You fighter is little overpowered consider taking awway the bounus feat maybe the upgrade (the upgrade isnt too bad) you could make this a ten level prestige clas and keep the bonus feats, just use the last three in the style list
Aryxbez 11-11-06, 01:40 AM	Update, I have created the feat advancement for the PH2 feats
OneWinged4ngel 11-11-06, 02:47 AM	You fighter is little overpowered consider taking awway the bounus feat maybe the upgrade (the upgrade isnt too bad) you could make this a ten level prestige clas and keep the bonus feats, just use the last three in the style list People might take you more seriously if you would give even the slightest hint of a reason for your assertions.
Aryxbez 11-15-06, 07:27 PM	Come now, surely there is someone who has comments on whether or not the class is balanced Or what to fill the special weapon ability gaps like sword and the shield at 20th lv
PrinceCurtis 11-15-06, 08:29 PM	People might take you more seriously if you would give even the slightest hint of a reason for your assertions. My reasons are balance. And i was asked my opinion not to explain myself
OneWinged4ngel 11-15-06, 09:37 PM	My reasons are balance. And i was asked my opinion not to explain myself :rolleyes: Look, no one can change anything if you don't say why it's overpowered. If you just say it's overpowered because it's trendy (And every single class has been called overpowered.) then... well, that's just stupid.
Aryxbez 11-16-06, 12:13 AM	I Agree, So to prevent future Ponfusion Please give your opinion and Explain your reason for it Also Prince Curtis, what is unbalancing about it? compared to martial adepts and them sorcerers i think it would work fine Although i have not tested this yet OneWinged4ngel, do you think the aryxbezian fighter is balanced? And a match for your Rebalanced Paladin perhaps?
PrinceCurtis 11-16-06, 11:42 AM	alright but you couldn't been nicer (or maybe i'm just paraniod) what makes fighter worth while is his feats, i think still geeting all his feats and fightstyles is too much, althoug i really like the feat upgrade. Maybe not totally take away the bonus feat but just some
Daxen 11-16-06, 08:31 PM	I like your build though the styles seem a bit awkward. Feats should scale with level. All the Bonus feats should remain intact and in my opinion the fighter should have the best saves in the game. When you live in a world of magic and are in the only group of people who have not learned how to use magic you better learn how to avoid it's affects. I don't really like the counterspell type thing. Deflect Ray might be cool. SR is a definite possibility. Something like 5+ level. The Fighter has toughened his body to the point that it can shrug off many magical attacks. There need to be high level fighter feats that compare to 7th-9th level spells. Greater weapon specialiation should give +1 damage per fighter level with chosen weapon. Talk about great cleave actually doing something. A 20th level fighter should be ablle to wade through a room of ogres like they are not even there leaving only their corpses in his wake. The unfortunate reality is that a fighter is the proverbial knife at a nuclear weapons fight after 12th level. If a high level fighter somehow makes it to melee with a high level caster the caster should die 9/10. That is unfortunately not the case, not to mention the difficulties getting there. Your build is a step in the right direction, the styles need work.
OneWinged4ngel 11-16-06, 09:10 PM	It's so true. Guess which one is the knife, and which is the nuclear weapon. This is basically how I see Fighters in high level environments. http://ic3.deviantart.com/fs10/i/2006/097/9/7/Smok_by_GENZOMAN.jpg The Fighter is like that guy. Sure, he might wear some armor and carry a dinky sword, but he can't compete with that... so why does he bother? The fighter *should* be pulling mad skill martial prowess to kick that thing's ass... but even up to high levels he's just a plain ol' guy with a sword. No, he doesn't have any of the epic abilities of heroes of legend. He doesn't have any abilities of high level fighter types from fiction, legends, movie, comics, anime, or video games. He just has increasingly shiny swords (from money. A peasant can do that) and dinky little feats that make him somewhat better at being an ordinary guy with a sword.
Aryxbez 11-16-06, 11:29 PM	Update, I have made the Feat list much better to look at and the feat upgrades have been bolded to be seen quickly Also I apologize if i sounded mean Prince Curtis, that was not my intention Originally posted by Daxen There need to be high level fighter feats that compare to 7th-9th level spells Greater weapon specialization should give +1 damage per fighter level with chosen weapon. Does anyone else think this? If I get enough feedback I will change it Also does anyone have any ideas to fix the weapon styles? Or to rid of them entirely? don't forget to say your reason for your opinion
PrinceCurtis 11-17-06, 11:33 AM	Also I apologize if i sounded mean Prince Curtis, that was not my intention it wasn't you it was one winged angel. and i'm just paranoid so i apologiz if i get off as rude.
Aryxbez 11-17-06, 07:47 PM	Update: I made the Complete warrior list Also does anyone think ranged disarm should get an advancement? Also does anyone have any ideas to fill the 20th lv weapon style slot for sword and shield?
PrinceCurtis 11-18-06, 11:20 AM	Update: I made the Complete warrior list Also does anyone think ranged disarm should get an advancement? Also does anyone have any ideas to fill the 20th lv weapon style slot for sword and shield? Hmm, it possibly counld pin the weapon it disarms ...
Repeekluos 11-18-06, 11:56 AM	I love the Idea of the feat upgrades. I feel that the class itself is a little overpowered, considering it gets all of its feats, upgrades, and weapon styles. If the fighter class as it stands, were to get something like the feat upgrade integrated into it, it would be balanced. The weapon styles, seem to be just more feats, and that is the last thing the fighter needs. However, making feats more powerful is on the right track. Focus on the feat upgrades. A fighter with blindsense, or sight? That would be awesome, and you have the path to get with the upgrades. The combat Form chain is a perfect example of this. They all add something that the fighter wants, or needs, and they all get more powerful once you reach a certain threshold. THAT, is what the fighter needs. Get him a few more abilities to survive, not just "I deal more damage now". Anyway, keep up the good work, and maybe one day it will be famous. BTW, sorry for the obvious lack of structure for this post, I am at work, and dont have a lot of time to type. Edit: P.S. being able to catch the weapon that the fighter disarms would f'ing rule. How man swashbuckling adventures have you watched in the past where one fighter flips the other's sword into his hand?
Aryxbez 11-18-06, 12:51 PM	Orignally posted by Aryxbez Also does anyone have any ideas to fill the 20th lv weapon style slot for sword Orignally posted by PrinceCurtis Hmm, it possibly counld pin the weapon it disarms That is genius, so do you mean that you get their weapon? if so i will work on it unless you meant that it is stuck in the ground and now the person must make a str check as a standard or move action to pull it out. Once i get back from playing my campaign I will start to work on the weapon styles by making them advance like the feats do(maybe) and fill in the empty sword style Otherwise Keep the Feedback coming!
PrinceCurtis 11-18-06, 05:08 PM	I mean pin it in the ground so they would have to at least pull it out .It could possibly have an increasing dc...
Aryxbez 11-18-06, 08:24 PM	Update: I have redone the sword 10th lv ability and made the 20th lv ability thanks to Prince Curtis for the Idea for the 20th lv sword idea Update:I have fixed some weapon styles and I am not truly done yet, I will find a replacement for the double weapons reach special I have made the 20th lv shield ability, sweet isn't it? Also what do you think of the changes to the weapon styles? do they seem balanced?
Aryxbez 11-19-06, 12:37 PM	I have now finally finished the weapon styles it is now open for Playtesting! I hope someone will playtest this for me. If not then i wil do it. So what do you think? is the weapon styles balanced? Is the Aryxbezian Fighter finally Balanced?
OneWinged4ngel 11-19-06, 03:08 PM	I have now finally finished the weapon styles it is now open for Playtesting! I hope someone will playtest this for me. If not then i wil do it. So what do you think? is the weapon styles balanced? Is the Aryxbezian Fighter finally Balanced? Balanced against what? That's the question.
travellersside 11-19-06, 03:34 PM	Balanced against what? That's the question. If you want a class that focuses on hitting critters with sharp (or blunt) objects, will you, for any significant portion of your life, wish that you were playing a completely different class, since you just can't pull your weight. Likewise, do the other players think that you're doing fine and not overshadowing them. If you're in between, the class is balanced. By the way, I highly recommend plenty of skill points. Why? What do you do when you aren't fighting? Just about everyone can do useful things outside combat. What can you do? With only 2 skill points/level, you need to pump your intelligence extremely high to be able to anything useful. Adding Spot and Listen are a good start, but if you buy those, you're out of points unless you're human or have above average Int. Even then, you can't afford much. Fighters should have at least 4 skill points. How about adding Use Rope and Heal? Use Rope wouldn't hurt and is thematically appropriate, and you're honestly telling me that a class that spends its time hacking away at monsters (and being hacked up by them) has no idea of how to bind its wounds?
Aryxbez 11-19-06, 04:18 PM	Originally Posted by OneWinged4ngel Balanced against what? That's the question. I guess compared to the other classes and fighting other creatures from 1-20 would it do it's job right? will it be balanced from 1st all the way to 20th level? That is what I mean Is it balanced? Travelerside, i will get right on including use rope and giving them 4+int I don't think the Heal skill would be a prime skill, not like every super soldier is a medic
OneWinged4ngel 11-19-06, 06:35 PM	I guess compared to the other classes and fighting other creatures from 1-20 would it do it's job right? will it be balanced from 1st all the way to 20th level? That is what I mean Is it balanced? Travelerside, i will get right on including use rope and giving them 4+int I don't think the Heal skill would be a prime skill, not like every super soldier is a medic The other classes and things in the system aren't balanced, which is the thing. Is it balanced against spellcasters? Certainly doesn't look like it.
Aryxbez 11-20-06, 01:01 AM	Onewinged4ngel, so why is it not balanced compared to spellcasters? however is it balanced compared to Ottos barbarian or your Rebalanced paladin? what needs fixing, If it is the uppers placement, they are placed that way to ensure no dead levels also the Feat advancement I think works perfectly
OneWinged4ngel 11-20-06, 01:26 AM	Onewinged4ngel, so why is it not balanced compared to spellcasters? however is it balanced compared to Ottos barbarian or your Rebalanced paladin? what needs fixing, If it is the uppers placement, they are placed that way to ensure no dead levels also the Feat advancement I think works perfectly Because spellcasters are freakin' amazing with the right spells ;) Quite honestly, though, the "fixes" you've instated don't really target the *problems* with the Fighter. As has been said before, giving the Fighter a feat at every level isn't going to make him compete with casters, and the power increases on the feats aren't comparable to, say, K/Frank's version... which, I might add, also gains a whole slew of other awesome abilities on top of that. The weapon style abilities are comparable to feats, weak Tome of Battle Maneuvers, or similar things. Some of them just seem silly to me, especially as a major class option rather than something for a very specific character. (Turtle Stance? I'm sorry, but not every sword'n'board wants to be like that... actually, they might want to be, you know, sword'n'board). For example, the 20th level ability that adds 10d6 damage once an encounter is is like a single Tome of Battle maneuver (albeit not a 9th level one!). Hurricane Wind is comparable to Wind Wall (it's... what, second level?). Some of the feats are powerful, but many others are still lame... especially for class features to rely on at higher levels. Tome of Battle melee classes aren't as powerful as casters (they're good, but still not up to par with casters... and they *shouldn't be* because casters are crazy). What does your class do to measure up to Tome of Battle classes? Or CR 17 monsters?
Aryxbez 11-20-06, 05:05 PM	show me the link to this K/franks fighter, I doubt it is perfect without being overcomplicated I am somewhat sure of the problems Also have not answered my question on whether or not it is balanced compared to Ottos barbarian or your Rebalanced Paladin, I plan to use those classes in my campaign maybe with my aryxbezian fighter as well. Also haven't told me what needs to be fixed Also i am to believe i have indeed targeted the problem, claimed the fighters feats were too weak, so i gave the fighter an advancement with NO dead levels which sounds like it equals a much more better fighter Also I was mainly asking you, will it do well against high level creatures? My guess to answer your question would be yes, since my first character I ever played and still play can fight a cr around 12 and i am only 10th lv also I am only a fighter/barbarian and it is 3.0 only goes bad due to my luck The fact that some of the abilities are high level means there is something more to get out of that level
OneWinged4ngel 11-20-06, 05:22 PM	show me the link to this K/franks fighter, I doubt it is perfect without being overcomplicated I am somewhat sure of the problems Also have not answered my question on whether or not it is balanced compared to Ottos barbarian or your Rebalanced Paladin, I plan to use those classes in my campaign maybe with my aryxbezian fighter as well. Also haven't told me what needs to be fixed Also i am to believe i have indeed targeted the problem, claimed the fighters feats were too weak, so i gave the fighter an advancement with NO dead levels which sounds like it equals a much more better fighter Also I was mainly asking you, will it do well against high level creatures? My guess to answer your question would be yes, since my first character I ever played and still play can fight a cr around 12 and i am only 10th lv also I am only a fighter/barbarian and it is 3.0 only goes bad due to my luck The fact that some of the abilities are high level means there is something more to get out of that level I highly recommend you read all four of K's wonderful articles. Races of War, Tome of Necromancy, Tome of Fiends, and Dungeonomicon. They're quite long, and packed with very nifty material. If you have not read K/Frank's work, you are certainly missing out. Otto's Barbarian, and indeed many of his and others' work, derives a good deal of material and inspiration from K's novella-length articles. K's fighter is not complicated, but it does have a few issues in its implementation: 1) It changes the entire combat system of D&D at a fundamental level, revamping the feat system (more cleanly than yours), changing how you gain weapon proficiencies, making BAB actually useful in the form of "edges," and a variety of other things. 2) It's a high balance. K creates classes with the assumption that everyone is going to be at least decently well optimized. Search around on the boards for like 2 minutes, and I'm sure you'll see them. They're also stickied on The Gaming Den. http://bb.bbboy.net/thegamingden-viewforum?forum=1
Aryxbez 11-20-06, 05:52 PM	Ok, so my Fighter sucks? oh well... Good enough for my group I guess I will ask some questions 1.) Is it BALANCED compared to Ottos barbarian and your Rebalanced Paladin? Yes or no? and why? 2.) How is my feat advancement unclean? I find it simple without being complicated 3.) Also how does this K/frank ensure Balance all around? Also I read K/franks fighter, I question the saves, but I thought it was ok Just that since you said it is a new system, I don't really wish to have to remember a new system, I find this system D&D has going fine and dandy. Otherwise can't see whats so grand about his fighter, but enough of this guys fighter, I just want my 3 questions answered Please.
OneWinged4ngel 11-20-06, 06:50 PM	Ok, so my Fighter sucks? oh well... Good enough for my group I guess I will ask some questions 1.) Is it BALANCED compared to Ottos barbarian and your Rebalanced Paladin? Yes or no? and why? 2.) How is my feat advancement unclean? I find it simple without being complicated 3.) Also how does this K/frank ensure Balance all around? Also I read K/franks fighter, I question the saves, but I thought it was ok Just that since you said it is a new system, I don't really wish to have to remember a new system, I find this system D&D has going fine and dandy. Otherwise can't see whats so grand about his fighter, but enough of this guys fighter, I just want my 3 questions answered Please. K and Frank are very, very knowledgeable players with lots of experience. Their series of articles is intended to "fix" D&D. The Races of War article brought the most severe changes of any of them, however, and is the only one that isn't really compatible with the normal system. Further, they playtest! I remember one of them saying that they organically levelled up and playtested their new stuff. However, as I said, his Fighter and such are at a high balance, because they're intended to compete with decently optimized spellcasters. Optimized spellcasters are freakin' amazing. Anyways, you'll notice that, for example, Otto's Barbarian is similar in many respects to K/Frank's, as their works have been an inspiration :) As for balance, to give a good enough response I'd have to put together a fighter and see how all of the uppers and things stack up... because it's a hard thing to just eyeball and give an accurate projection. However, the initial impression is that it doesn't have the power or options that they do at higher levels. For example, the paladin has solid buffs in his spellcasting, powerful attack and defense options from smite and specializations, resilient saves from Divine Grace, limited healing, and contributes to the whole party with auras. The barbarian can become quite fearsome with rage, gaining a great deal of hp, attack power, damage, and immunities... as well as having things like skills to have a use outside of battle (your fighter has no use outside of battle)
Aryxbez 11-20-06, 07:56 PM	I can see what youre saying, but the fighter has listen,and spot and userope so he is not completely useless out of battle Also I would like to see the build of my fighter, that would be nifty to see I also created a build of my own. unless i am wrong with stacking rules I can end up with a shield that deals 4d6 (spiked,bashing enchantment and the 1st lv shield style and a large shield) Also could you please stop talking about spellcasters and K/frank stupid system? Either way this class may suck, but it is good enough for me.
OneWinged4ngel 11-20-06, 09:14 PM	Also could you please stop talking about spellcasters and K/frank stupid system? Uhhhm, okay? You asked me... I was just answering your questions :confused: Why would you ask me a question (the third one on your list) if you didn't want me to answer it? :uh-huh:
Aryxbez 11-20-06, 09:28 PM	sorry, I don't really know why I said that From what i read you were just talking about how great the system was and not really answering the question otherwise, have you built that aryxbezian fighter playtest character yet? Although I have never been great at balancing a class, In fact this is my first class I ever made. My new concern on balance is now that is balanced between your Superladin (superb paladin) and Ottos barbarian So can a Aryxbezian fighter actually beat any of those 2 classes? Also what would you suggest to make the styles more powerful? And I found all the feats to be actually useful any crappy feats that has an advancement?
OneWinged4ngel 11-20-06, 09:37 PM	sorry, I don't really know why I said that From what i read you were just talking about how great the system was and not really answering the question Actually, I don't think it's that great... which is why I don't use it in my game. I was, instead, explaining how they are able to balance things by their standard. A lot of work goes into proper balance. You need to examine a character's performance at every level, match him up against other classes (preferably classes considered "balanced" like the Psychic Warrior or Rogue). You've got to have a feel for the system, and know how mechanics work in practice. You need to measure their effectiveness against appropriate challenges for their level. It's a lot of work... and it's time consuming, but that's what it takes.
Aryxbez 11-20-06, 09:48 PM	I thank you for your wisdom, that is one of the most smartest things I have heard in weeks. I guess to truly tell if it is balanced or not is to introduce it into my games and see how it plays out.
Aryxbez 11-23-06, 10:48 AM	Update: Created the Polearm style
Otto the Bugbear 11-23-06, 02:30 PM	I basically just want to pipe up in support of what OW4 is saying. I also wanted to amend this statement... You need to examine a character's performance at every level, match him up against other classes (preferably classes considered "balanced" like the Psychic Warrior or Rogue). ... by saying ... Also match it up against level appropriate encounters. If you only match it against other classes, it'll skew your results just a little bit. Possibly enough to throw your results off. Also, always remember that the class will be used as part of a group. And comment on this statement... Also could you please stop talking about spellcasters and K/frank stupid system? Without reading about it, how can you be so quick to pass judgement on it? It sounds to me like OW4 is on the same page as I. While K/Frank have done a fantastic job of detailing a lot of the problems with the game, the power-level of their fix is too high for myself or OW4. With that in mind, it doesn't mean that the entirety of their work is "stupid". I highly recommend starting with the Dungeonomicon. (Ignoring the class re-writes) that one thread reveals a lot of the things people just don't typically think about in D&D. Just food for thought. Cheers Otto :)
OneWinged4ngel 11-23-06, 02:42 PM	I basically just want to pipe up in support of what OW4 is saying. I also wanted to amend this statement... ... by saying ... Also match it up against level appropriate encounters. If you only match it against other classes, it'll skew your results just a little bit. Possibly enough to throw your results off. Also, always remember that the class will be used as part of a group. Good call, Otto. I kind of intended that when I said "measure effectiveness at all levels" but I suppose I should have been more specific. That definitely is something that should be metioned specifically :)
Aryxbez 11-23-06, 02:53 PM	I read little of the system, I don't want to learn a new system and thats about it. I will be testing it in encounters once I find the right scenarios for it Such as what to face
OneWinged4ngel 11-23-06, 02:55 PM	See if you can find the old "custom class competition" thread. It had a good variety of encounters around CR10. (This is not to say, however, that their balancing system there is valid. It didn't account for multiple encounters a day, and was a bit skewed towards opinion rather than actual trials.)
Aryxbez 11-28-06, 06:19 PM	Update, Made the Feat advancement to actually have a sensible progression starts at 1st lv, then every 3 levels thereafter So OneWinged4ngel or anyone who actually cares to post about this class What do you think? Also can anyone think of filler abilties? NOTE: Please don't post here as this thread is dead. The only reason I keep this is to remind me of the Feat Advancement system I may someday implement into my games. Beyond that there are better fighter threads out there such as the fighter created by otto the bugbear Or Seerow