Aspect of Nature [Archive] - Wizards Community

Aspect of Nature [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
pukunui
04-29-07, 04:14 AM Hi all,

I don't really like the druid's wildshape feature. Never mind the "balance" issues, I just find it to be too complicated and time-consuming. I like the look of the Aspect of Nature variant from Unearthed Arcana. It seems a lot simpler than wildshape ... and it also seems more thoroughly fleshed out than the otherwise cool-seeming Shapeshifting variant from the PHB2 (which, as many people have noted, lacks an aquatic form). But I've never seen it in play, so I don't know if it's any good or not.

What do people think of the Aspect of Nature variant? I'd particularly like to hear from anyone who has used it (either as a player or a DM). Is it worth replacing wildshape with the Aspect of Nature variant? Is it actually simpler, or does it slow down play even more than wildshape?

For the variant rules, see here: aspect of nature (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/classFeatureVariants.htm#wildShapeVarian tAspectOfNature)

Cheers.

- Jonny
Arcane Guyver
04-29-07, 06:37 AM It is simpler, and more balanced (skewing more towards possibly underpowered territory). It sort of changes the druid's flavor a little, and there's a very good chance your players won't like it and will just avoid the druid class altogether.

If you think wild shape is too overwhelming (understandable), try limiting the number of forms a druid can take to their druid level. To further make the class less ridiculous, reduce the duration of the ability to one minute per druid level. (This has the added effect of making the currently useless Wild feats somewhat more appealing.)

Another option is the Shapechange ability from Player's Handbook II. You get only a handful of forms, but can change shape right from level one and at will. The downside is that it's not very compatible with most druid crunch (feats & PrCs) and there isn't a water-based form available for some reason.
pukunui
04-29-07, 03:34 PM It is simpler, and more balanced (skewing more towards possibly underpowered territory). It sort of changes the druid's flavor a little, and there's a very good chance your players won't like it and will just avoid the druid class altogether.Yeah. I have to talk it over with my players, none of whom have really expressed an interest in playing a druid anyway, but I don't think they'd be opposed to it, really.

If you think wild shape is too overwhelming (understandable), try limiting the number of forms a druid can take to their druid level. To further make the class less ridiculous, reduce the duration of the ability to one minute per druid level. (This has the added effect of making the currently useless Wild feats somewhat more appealing.)This is an interesting idea. And I suppose I could also get them to write up statblocks for each form they can take outside of the game session so they can just say, "I'm turning into an ape" and whip out their ape form statblock and use that instead of their regular character sheet until the duration wears off.

Another option is the Shapechange ability from Player's Handbook II. You get only a handful of forms, but can change shape right from level one and at will. The downside is that it's not very compatible with most druid crunch (feats & PrCs) and there isn't a water-based form available for some reason.I really do like the Shapeshifter variant from the PHB2, but, as you say, it lacks an aquatic form - which the Aspect of Nature variant does not (it has an aquatic aspect that grants the druid a swim speed and gills).
periscope
04-29-07, 05:48 PM Ive seen a feat on the boards that gave them an alternative predator form. When they shapeshifted they could (if they wanted, they didnt have to use the feat if they had it) they could choose to change into an aquatic version. In exchange you gained a swim speed equal to your previous speed before it was modified and you gain the ability to swim. otherwise the same as the predator and its bigger brother's forms.

Ive also seen a couple that modified your elemental form.

We grouped them under one feat Improved Elemental Form (it affected all your forms:

Fire: Attacks deal 1d6 points of fire and have the chance to set them on fire. Anyone striking you with a nonreach weapon took 2d6 points of fire damage.

Water: Gain a swim speed equal to your land speed and the ability to breathe underwater. Gain a +4 on grapple checks made in the water or to pull someone under (scary image when summon just gets sucked below).

Earth: Gain an earth glide speed equal to your land speed. Gain an additional +4 to natural armor (untyped) and your natural weapons count as cold iron/silver/adamantine/any other strange metallic materials you have (like from eberron).

Air: Gain a fly speed equal to your land speed with perfect maneuverability. Gain a +4 dodge bonus to AC.
pukunui
04-30-07, 01:36 AM Ive seen a feat on the boards that gave them an alternative predator form. When they shapeshifted they could (if they wanted, they didnt have to use the feat if they had it) they could choose to change into an aquatic version. In exchange you gained a swim speed equal to your previous speed before it was modified and you gain the ability to swim. otherwise the same as the predator and its bigger brother's forms.

Ive also seen a couple that modified your elemental form.

We grouped them under one feat Improved Elemental Form (it affected all your forms:

Fire: Attacks deal 1d6 points of fire and have the chance to set them on fire. Anyone striking you with a nonreach weapon took 2d6 points of fire damage.

Water: Gain a swim speed equal to your land speed and the ability to breathe underwater. Gain a +4 on grapple checks made in the water or to pull someone under (scary image when summon just gets sucked below).

Earth: Gain an earth glide speed equal to your land speed. Gain an additional +4 to natural armor (untyped) and your natural weapons count as cold iron/silver/adamantine/any other strange metallic materials you have (like from eberron).

Air: Gain a fly speed equal to your land speed with perfect maneuverability. Gain a +4 dodge bonus to AC.
Sorry - this is for the PHB2 Shapeshifter variant?
ssvegeta555
04-30-07, 02:00 AM I like Aspect of Nature varient, but I wished it lasted longer. 1 minute/level seems too short. 10 minutes per level would be a more suitable, and more useful duration IMO.
periscope
04-30-07, 02:05 AM Its a feat that requires you to actually have the shapeshifter variant and be able to shift to elemental form. Thats like at level 15+. The fire version is just a slightly boosted fire shield spell. The water has a dumbed down version of the whirlpool ability normally available to water elementals. Air gives you dodge bonus and a fly speed. Earth just allows you to strike with earthen materials. DR still has alignment to go through which you cant get unless you DM allows it.

That and it does have requirements.

Improved elemental form (and its from off the boards so you will need DM approval):

Prerequisites:

Must have taken the druids shapeshifting variant from PHB II, Knowledge (nature) 18 ranks, Knowledge (Planes) 8 ranks, must be able to shift into elemental form.
pukunui
04-30-07, 02:34 AM I like Aspect of Nature varient, but I wished it lasted longer. 1 minute/level seems too short. 10 minutes per level would be a more suitable, and more useful duration IMO.Hmm yeah. That does sound better. Although wildshape lasts for 1 hour/level, so even 10 mins/level seems a bit short.

Its a feat that requires you to actually have the shapeshifter variant and be able to shift to elemental form. Thats like at level 15+. The fire version is just a slightly boosted fire shield spell. The water has a dumbed down version of the whirlpool ability normally available to water elementals. Air gives you dodge bonus and a fly speed. Earth just allows you to strike with earthen materials. DR still has alignment to go through which you cant get unless you DM allows it.

That and it does have requirements.

Improved elemental form (and its from off the boards so you will need DM approval):

Prerequisites:

Must have taken the druids shapeshifting variant from PHB II, Knowledge (nature) 18 ranks, Knowledge (Planes) 8 ranks, must be able to shift into elemental form.LOL. I am the DM. I'd rather not use anything from the boards though. I just want to stick with official published WotC material. Thanks though.
periscope
04-30-07, 02:40 AM thats ok.

Personally Id have a feat that let them get an aquatic form though since that seems to be the only problem with the shapeshifter variant. We have it as the standard for druids and gave full animal companion abilities to the ranger. If the druid wants one he can take wild cohort.
pukunui
04-30-07, 02:52 AM thats ok.

Personally Id have a feat that let them get an aquatic form though since that seems to be the only problem with the shapeshifter variant. We have it as the standard for druids and gave full animal companion abilities to the ranger. If the druid wants one he can take wild cohort.
I'd rather just make up an aquatic form for the Shapeshifter variant and make it part of the rules rather than require a feat for it.

That's a good idea for giving rangers full animal companion. It sort of makes sense. I should do that myself -- it will help make up for having removed their spellcasting power (I'm using the spell-less ranger and paladin variants from Complete Warrior).
periscope
04-30-07, 02:59 AM I'd rather just make up an aquatic form for the Shapeshifter variant and make it part of the rules rather than require a feat for it.

That's a good idea for giving rangers full animal companion. It sort of makes sense. I should do that myself -- it will help make up for having removed their spellcasting power (I'm using the spell-less ranger and paladin variants from Complete Warrior).

There is a martial ranger in the martial compendium that uses maneuvers from TOB. Its pretty good.

There is a rebalanced paladin on the board that is a lot better then the PHB one in the peach orchard.
pukunui
04-30-07, 03:56 AM There is a martial ranger in the martial compendium that uses maneuvers from TOB. Its pretty good.I don't have TOB. But thanks.

There is a rebalanced paladin on the board that is a lot better then the PHB one in the peach orchard.I'm using the CW spell-less variants for the ranger and paladin because I wanted to eliminate prepared casting from my game. For the druid and cleric, though, I am using the spontaneous divine caster variant from Unearthed Arcana. Wizards are the only remaining prepared casters in my game, and that's only because I couldn't find a way to make them a spontaneous caster without effectively turning them into a sorcerer.

However, this isn't really relevant to this thread's topic. I am really hoping to discuss the Aspect of Nature variant. I'd still like more feedback on it. Surely there are more people out there who have actually used it! Where are you?

Cheers,
Jonny
pukunui
05-11-07, 09:47 PM :bump:
pukunui
05-22-07, 02:38 AM :bump:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
pukunui 04-29-07, 04:14 AM	Hi all, I don't really like the druid's wildshape feature. Never mind the "balance" issues, I just find it to be too complicated and time-consuming. I like the look of the Aspect of Nature variant from Unearthed Arcana. It seems a lot simpler than wildshape ... and it also seems more thoroughly fleshed out than the otherwise cool-seeming Shapeshifting variant from the PHB2 (which, as many people have noted, lacks an aquatic form). But I've never seen it in play, so I don't know if it's any good or not. What do people think of the Aspect of Nature variant? I'd particularly like to hear from anyone who has used it (either as a player or a DM). Is it worth replacing wildshape with the Aspect of Nature variant? Is it actually simpler, or does it slow down play even more than wildshape? For the variant rules, see here: aspect of nature (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/classFeatureVariants.htm#wildShapeVarian tAspectOfNature) Cheers. - Jonny
Arcane Guyver 04-29-07, 06:37 AM	It is simpler, and more balanced (skewing more towards possibly underpowered territory). It sort of changes the druid's flavor a little, and there's a very good chance your players won't like it and will just avoid the druid class altogether. If you think wild shape is too overwhelming (understandable), try limiting the number of forms a druid can take to their druid level. To further make the class less ridiculous, reduce the duration of the ability to one minute per druid level. (This has the added effect of making the currently useless Wild feats somewhat more appealing.) Another option is the Shapechange ability from Player's Handbook II. You get only a handful of forms, but can change shape right from level one and at will. The downside is that it's not very compatible with most druid crunch (feats & PrCs) and there isn't a water-based form available for some reason.
pukunui 04-29-07, 03:34 PM	It is simpler, and more balanced (skewing more towards possibly underpowered territory). It sort of changes the druid's flavor a little, and there's a very good chance your players won't like it and will just avoid the druid class altogether.Yeah. I have to talk it over with my players, none of whom have really expressed an interest in playing a druid anyway, but I don't think they'd be opposed to it, really. If you think wild shape is too overwhelming (understandable), try limiting the number of forms a druid can take to their druid level. To further make the class less ridiculous, reduce the duration of the ability to one minute per druid level. (This has the added effect of making the currently useless Wild feats somewhat more appealing.)This is an interesting idea. And I suppose I could also get them to write up statblocks for each form they can take outside of the game session so they can just say, "I'm turning into an ape" and whip out their ape form statblock and use that instead of their regular character sheet until the duration wears off. Another option is the Shapechange ability from Player's Handbook II. You get only a handful of forms, but can change shape right from level one and at will. The downside is that it's not very compatible with most druid crunch (feats & PrCs) and there isn't a water-based form available for some reason.I really do like the Shapeshifter variant from the PHB2, but, as you say, it lacks an aquatic form - which the Aspect of Nature variant does not (it has an aquatic aspect that grants the druid a swim speed and gills).
periscope 04-29-07, 05:48 PM	Ive seen a feat on the boards that gave them an alternative predator form. When they shapeshifted they could (if they wanted, they didnt have to use the feat if they had it) they could choose to change into an aquatic version. In exchange you gained a swim speed equal to your previous speed before it was modified and you gain the ability to swim. otherwise the same as the predator and its bigger brother's forms. Ive also seen a couple that modified your elemental form. We grouped them under one feat Improved Elemental Form (it affected all your forms: Fire: Attacks deal 1d6 points of fire and have the chance to set them on fire. Anyone striking you with a nonreach weapon took 2d6 points of fire damage. Water: Gain a swim speed equal to your land speed and the ability to breathe underwater. Gain a +4 on grapple checks made in the water or to pull someone under (scary image when summon just gets sucked below). Earth: Gain an earth glide speed equal to your land speed. Gain an additional +4 to natural armor (untyped) and your natural weapons count as cold iron/silver/adamantine/any other strange metallic materials you have (like from eberron). Air: Gain a fly speed equal to your land speed with perfect maneuverability. Gain a +4 dodge bonus to AC.
pukunui 04-30-07, 01:36 AM	Ive seen a feat on the boards that gave them an alternative predator form. When they shapeshifted they could (if they wanted, they didnt have to use the feat if they had it) they could choose to change into an aquatic version. In exchange you gained a swim speed equal to your previous speed before it was modified and you gain the ability to swim. otherwise the same as the predator and its bigger brother's forms. Ive also seen a couple that modified your elemental form. We grouped them under one feat Improved Elemental Form (it affected all your forms: Fire: Attacks deal 1d6 points of fire and have the chance to set them on fire. Anyone striking you with a nonreach weapon took 2d6 points of fire damage. Water: Gain a swim speed equal to your land speed and the ability to breathe underwater. Gain a +4 on grapple checks made in the water or to pull someone under (scary image when summon just gets sucked below). Earth: Gain an earth glide speed equal to your land speed. Gain an additional +4 to natural armor (untyped) and your natural weapons count as cold iron/silver/adamantine/any other strange metallic materials you have (like from eberron). Air: Gain a fly speed equal to your land speed with perfect maneuverability. Gain a +4 dodge bonus to AC. Sorry - this is for the PHB2 Shapeshifter variant?
ssvegeta555 04-30-07, 02:00 AM	I like Aspect of Nature varient, but I wished it lasted longer. 1 minute/level seems too short. 10 minutes per level would be a more suitable, and more useful duration IMO.
periscope 04-30-07, 02:05 AM	Its a feat that requires you to actually have the shapeshifter variant and be able to shift to elemental form. Thats like at level 15+. The fire version is just a slightly boosted fire shield spell. The water has a dumbed down version of the whirlpool ability normally available to water elementals. Air gives you dodge bonus and a fly speed. Earth just allows you to strike with earthen materials. DR still has alignment to go through which you cant get unless you DM allows it. That and it does have requirements. Improved elemental form (and its from off the boards so you will need DM approval): Prerequisites: Must have taken the druids shapeshifting variant from PHB II, Knowledge (nature) 18 ranks, Knowledge (Planes) 8 ranks, must be able to shift into elemental form.
pukunui 04-30-07, 02:34 AM	I like Aspect of Nature varient, but I wished it lasted longer. 1 minute/level seems too short. 10 minutes per level would be a more suitable, and more useful duration IMO.Hmm yeah. That does sound better. Although wildshape lasts for 1 hour/level, so even 10 mins/level seems a bit short. Its a feat that requires you to actually have the shapeshifter variant and be able to shift to elemental form. Thats like at level 15+. The fire version is just a slightly boosted fire shield spell. The water has a dumbed down version of the whirlpool ability normally available to water elementals. Air gives you dodge bonus and a fly speed. Earth just allows you to strike with earthen materials. DR still has alignment to go through which you cant get unless you DM allows it. That and it does have requirements. Improved elemental form (and its from off the boards so you will need DM approval): Prerequisites: Must have taken the druids shapeshifting variant from PHB II, Knowledge (nature) 18 ranks, Knowledge (Planes) 8 ranks, must be able to shift into elemental form.LOL. I am the DM. I'd rather not use anything from the boards though. I just want to stick with official published WotC material. Thanks though.
periscope 04-30-07, 02:40 AM	thats ok. Personally Id have a feat that let them get an aquatic form though since that seems to be the only problem with the shapeshifter variant. We have it as the standard for druids and gave full animal companion abilities to the ranger. If the druid wants one he can take wild cohort.
pukunui 04-30-07, 02:52 AM	thats ok. Personally Id have a feat that let them get an aquatic form though since that seems to be the only problem with the shapeshifter variant. We have it as the standard for druids and gave full animal companion abilities to the ranger. If the druid wants one he can take wild cohort. I'd rather just make up an aquatic form for the Shapeshifter variant and make it part of the rules rather than require a feat for it. That's a good idea for giving rangers full animal companion. It sort of makes sense. I should do that myself -- it will help make up for having removed their spellcasting power (I'm using the spell-less ranger and paladin variants from Complete Warrior).
periscope 04-30-07, 02:59 AM	I'd rather just make up an aquatic form for the Shapeshifter variant and make it part of the rules rather than require a feat for it. That's a good idea for giving rangers full animal companion. It sort of makes sense. I should do that myself -- it will help make up for having removed their spellcasting power (I'm using the spell-less ranger and paladin variants from Complete Warrior). There is a martial ranger in the martial compendium that uses maneuvers from TOB. Its pretty good. There is a rebalanced paladin on the board that is a lot better then the PHB one in the peach orchard.
pukunui 04-30-07, 03:56 AM	There is a martial ranger in the martial compendium that uses maneuvers from TOB. Its pretty good.I don't have TOB. But thanks. There is a rebalanced paladin on the board that is a lot better then the PHB one in the peach orchard.I'm using the CW spell-less variants for the ranger and paladin because I wanted to eliminate prepared casting from my game. For the druid and cleric, though, I am using the spontaneous divine caster variant from Unearthed Arcana. Wizards are the only remaining prepared casters in my game, and that's only because I couldn't find a way to make them a spontaneous caster without effectively turning them into a sorcerer. However, this isn't really relevant to this thread's topic. I am really hoping to discuss the Aspect of Nature variant. I'd still like more feedback on it. Surely there are more people out there who have actually used it! Where are you? Cheers, Jonny
pukunui 05-11-07, 09:47 PM	:bump:
pukunui 05-22-07, 02:38 AM	:bump: