Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Thurbane 12-01-05, 09:29 PM	Well, I'm sure this will open up a can of worms, but I have a fundmamental problem with Assassins being spellcasters. I guess I'm just stuck in the old days of 1E. Anyway, I decided to come up with a base-class assassin for my own campaign. This is the first 3E class I have created, so I'm posting it in rough format to get some feedback and suggestions. ASSASSIN Alignment: Any nongood (predominantly evil) Hit Die: d8 Class Skills Balance, bluff, climb, disable device, disguise, forgery, gather information, hide, intimidate, listen, move silently, open lock, search, sleight of hand, spot, tumble. Skill Points at 1st Level: (6 + Int modifier) x4 Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 6 + Int modifier Table: The Assassin Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special 1st +0 +0 +2 +0 Sneak attack + 1d6, bonus feat, poison use 2nd +1 +0 +3 +0 +1 save against poison 3rd +2 +1 +3 +1 Sneak attack + 2d6 4th +3 +1 +4 +1 Uncanny dodge, +2 save against poison, bonus feat 5th +3 +1 +4 +1 Sneak attack + 3d6 6th +4 +2 +5 +2 Bonus feat, death attack, +3 save against poison 7th +5 +2 +5 +2 Sneak attack + 4d6 8th +6/+1 +2 +6 +2 Improved uncanny dodge, +4 save against poison, bonus feat 9th +6/+1 +3 +6 +3 Sneak attack + 5d6 10th +7/+2 +3 +7 +3 +5 save against poison 11th +8/+3 +3 +7 +3 Sneak attack + 6d6 12th +9/+4 +4 +8 +4 Bonus feat 13th +9/+4 +4 +8 +4 Sneak attack + 7d6 14th +10/+5 +4 +9 +4 Hide in plain sight 15th +11/+6/+1 +5 +9 +5 Sneak attack + 8d6 16th +12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +5 Bonus feat 17th +12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +5 Sneak attack + 9d6 18th +13/+8/+3 +6 +11 +6 Swift tracker, trackless step 19th +14/+9/+4 +6 +11 +6 Sneak attack + 10d6 20th +15/+10/+5 +6 +12 +6 Bonus feat Class Features All of the following are class features of the assassin. Sneak attack: As per the Rogue ability. Bonus feats: At first level, an assassin gets a bonus assassin-related feat in addition to the feat that any 1st-level character gets and the bonus feat granted to a human character. The assassin gets an additonal bonus feat at 4th level and every four assassin level thereafter (5th, 8th, 12th, 16th and 20th). These bonus feats must be drawn from the following list: alertness, blind-fight, deceitful, exotic weapon prificiency, improved critical, improved initiative, investigator, quick draw, stealthy, track, weapon finesse, weapon focus. Posion use: as per the Assassin prestige class ability. Uncanny dodge: As per the Rogue ability. Death attack: As per the Assassin prestige class ability. Improved uncanny dodge: As per the Rogue ability. Hide in plain sight: As per the Assassin prestige class ability. Swift tracker: As per the Ranger ability (must have purchased the Track feat to use this ability). Trackless step: As per the Druid ability.
Jell_Moo 12-01-05, 09:41 PM	A few points: 1) The first level is rather front loaded. 1d6 SA, poison use and a bonus feat is over the tope. A 1 level dip is way too nice to resist. 2) The SWift Tracker ability is a waste since the Assassin does not have Survival as a class skill. 3) The class lacks distinction. As written, it is very, very similar to a PHB Rogue. The difference between the two are minor at best. Find what you want the class to do, and build up. Pillage abilities from other PrCs if you must, but you need to make the class unique. Special.
Game_Addy 12-01-05, 09:45 PM	That looks good, but maybe give them Urban Camoflauge(look at the Rangers, and have it only for unnatural terrain. Also, why not be able to choose cleave as a bonus feat? Cleave is the ability to follow up with attacks, and I would think that is what an assassin would trie to do. Kill one quickly with SA, and go to the next with another SA(if you can get them flat footed). One last thing: isn't a d8 kinda high for a HD? Usually one would think of an assassin as going in, then out(IE Spring Attack) Good Job though:) Michael
Rulebook 12-01-05, 09:49 PM	looks like you just went "hmmm rogue + ranger + poison use = im brilliant!!" no base classs should grant poison use before 5th level. most certainly not 1st! no rogueish class should use d8's. especially one as specialized as a stealth killer. if you think assassins are anything but, stop plyaing diablo for a while and read your dnd books. and all that plus a bonus feat every 3 or so levels? stop being such an assassin fanboy! youve now made this class superior to the fighter, rogue, and ranger by far!
Thurbane 12-01-05, 10:00 PM	I can accept criticisms, but I certainly did not think "hmmm rogue + ranger + poison use = im brilliant!!" I have played and DMd D&D for almost 20 years, give me a little credit. :rolleyes: P.S. Hint - people take your criticisms more seriously if you dont try to "wise-ass" it up. As I said, I'm relatively new to 3E, and am asking for feedback, not for amateur heckling hour at the local comedy venue. I am trying to create a professional killer, who relies on stealth, weapon skill and poison to eliminate targets for money. Anyway, to clarify a few points: What level would you suggest I reset Posion Use to? For the Hide in Plain Sight - hmmm, not sure. I don't want to just create a ranger clone, but I'll have a think about that. Quite right about swift track - I should add survival to the class skills. The d8 hit die was intentional - this class is more combat oriented than the rogue, yet not as powerful in frontal assualt as a fighter. I thought d8 was a good compromise. If an overwhelming majority feel it should be d6, I will reduce it. ...but please keep the suggestions coming. :)
Jell_Moo 12-01-05, 11:49 PM	The Ninja from Complete Adventurer grants Poison Use at third level. There is precedent there to have it before 5th for sure. Also note that Poison Use is a pretty weak ability. All it does is remove the 5%chance you have of posioning yourself. That's it. The Scout (also in Complete Adventurer) has a d8 for hit points, and is definately a Rogueish class. Precedent certainly exists there as well.
Dark Voivode 12-02-05, 12:07 AM	I like this class as a base, but Jell_Moo is right, the class lacks distinction. Instead of Hide in Plain Sight, however, my recommendation would be to remove the bonus feats, toss in some disguise-related abilities and do something with his poison resistance. You built him up for something like that, scavenge around and find some stuff to make him worth the effort. Personally, I like Face in the Crowd (I don't remember where that's from) and 1,000 Faces. Face in the Crowd is similar to Hide in Plain Sight, but it only works if there's a crowd around, and 1,000 Faces is just a big bonus to Disguise checks if I remember correctly. I'd suggest a few poison creation or enhancing abilities to round everything out, but I may be considered insane. Anything other than bonus feats. That's just a cop-out in my book (not an insult, merely an observation), unique abilities make the class more drool-worthy and get your players clamoring for the class. That's all from me. Good luck and good job so far.
a_psh 12-02-05, 03:12 AM	It feels really unecessary to me. Basically, this class doesn't really differ substantially from the rogue. In this case, the "stealthy sneaky guy" already fills the "stealthy sneaky killer's" shoes, and those of like 20 other archetypes, and it works. I'd leave it alone. The thing to remember here, of course, is that one can be an assassin without assassin levels, just like not having aristocrat levels doesn't force a PC to be a commoner. But, err, actual comments... I think the d8 is unnecessary and out-of-flavor. This guy's business is to off someone before they even have a chance to put up a fight, after all. I don't think the woodland abilities really fit per se, either. Sure, you can argue that some assassins should have 'em, but it really isn't a ubiquitous feature of the profession by any means. It's actually much easier to customize the standard assassin PrC than this class: compare three based on a rogue, ranger, and monk, for example. I'm not sure how to resolve this, but it's an issue you should look into. You might want to just take a few abilities and turn them into alternate rogue high-level special powers.
cynical 12-02-05, 04:30 AM	As snide as rulebook was, he is right. The class balance is way off, The is no reason to play a rogue with this class around. He loses 2 skill points in exchange for better hitpoints, a bunch of class abilities, a bunch of bonus feats. You should tone it down alot. Best advice i can give is leave the prestige class as the prestige class. I dont see to mant people paying someone who is 1st level for stealth like assainations.
Thurbane 12-02-05, 06:47 PM	OK, I'll rework the class and repost it. The main difference between this class and the Rogue is meant to be Death Attack, Poison Use, and a wider range of weaponry available. Sorry if it's too similar to the Rogue as it is - I'll see if I can make it stand out a little more. But I won't be adding any spell ability. Again, thanks for all the input everyone. :)
a_psh 12-02-05, 09:45 PM	The main difference between this class and the Rogue is meant to be Death Attack, Poison Use, and a wider range of weaponry available. Sorry if it's too similar to the Rogue as it is - I'll see if I can make it stand out a little more. But I won't be adding any spell ability.Well, why not just make Death Attack a special high-level rogue ability, like Crippling Strike or Opportunist? Is there more to it than that?