Assassin power level [Archive] - Wizards Community

Assassin power level [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Optimator
11-26-06, 02:14 AM I was just wondering how people feel the Assassin PrC stacks up to others in terms of general, overall effectiveness. Surely the Spell Compendium helps them out a good deal, but what does everyone think?
KurenaiYami
11-26-06, 04:14 AM I was just wondering how people feel the Assassin PrC stacks up to others in terms of general, overall effectiveness. Surely the Spell Compendium helps them out a good deal, but what does everyone think?

Mediocre. Love it for the roleplay, though.
TheDarkLord
11-26-06, 04:20 AM Mediocre. Love it for the roleplay, though.

Yeah, I'm going to agree.

I do give the assassin an option though, instead of the set in stone spellcasting ability, if you have a spellcasting class going into the assassin I'll let you have a +1 Casting Level at every even numbered level.
The_Shaman
11-26-06, 05:06 AM Hm, doesn't that leave the Vengeance Taker (from Underdark) a bit too weak in comparison?
TheDarkLord
11-26-06, 05:08 AM Hm, doesn't that leave the Vengeance Taker (from Underdark) a bit too weak in comparison?

If your referring to me, I don't own underdark.

But...

If you wanted to send the specs on that PrC through a PM then... maybe..

Im joking of course...

or am I...

really though.. :D
cthascott
11-26-06, 09:12 AM Easy to meet pre-reqs, sneak attack right off the bat, good class skills, rockin' spells, and of course the awesome flavor. Overall, a good Prc. Too many people want their PC to be able to do everything, and we've come to expect WoTC to print out Prc's that give it to us. This class lets you role-play and roll-play. A classic Prc from the first book in the 3.0/3.5 era to print Prc's. I like the +1 existing spell casting variant DarkLord, I've used that before. There's my two cents.
Dark Stryke
11-26-06, 09:17 AM I like the class. It may be a bit "above the curve" compared to your basic rogue, but it's not what I would call overpowered. On the other hand, I don't consider it particularly weak, either. With easy Pre-Reqs, spellcasting, and a good ability (sneak attack), assassin is a great class for many melee/sneaky types to branch into.

This one is very solid. Wizards did a good job with this one.
Particle_Man
11-26-06, 10:59 AM It suffers a bit from two problems:

1) Lots of creatures and characters are immune to sneak attack, and this only gets worse as you get higher in level.

2) Also as you get higher in levels, lots of creatures are *Big*, meaning lots of HD and lots of Con, and generally a great fort save. So even if you can get a sneak attack in, the chance of a death attack actually succeeding is remote (around the 5% level sometimes...sad, really).

On the other hand, if you stay in the city and have only humanoid opponents, it is more workable.
VonRichthofen
11-26-06, 11:17 AM As to my humble point of view, it's a good PrC - but highly situational.

As others have said before, it depends on the campaign.
It might range from pretty powerful in a humanoid-centred surrounding to utter crap in a place where undead, elementals, plants and other critters immune to crits abound.

Also, while highly stylish, the Death Attack ability is uber-situational and should be considered carefully if thought of as the "prime ability" of the assassin.
ninjarabbit
11-26-06, 11:30 AM Average overall
The_Normal_Anomaly
11-26-06, 01:23 PM Perhaps it is just me but I have always seen the Assassin prestige class to be the so-called fighter of prestige classes. It has awesome flavor and although I have never had the chance to play it it does look like fun. The only problem is that death attack was a poorly done ability in my opinion. I would have much rather had something that could work at a range, but then again I think sneak attack should work out at a range, perhaps with more negative modifiers than a normal attack but still, it would be great to get that natural twenty with a death attack out at your max range and yell "Headshot". How exactly is the Assassin paralyzing the target with the death attack? This can end up better than a death attack result because you could coup de grace for the duration of the effect which is an almost certain kill if no one could stop you. It is also great to disable a non-target, of which you could then knock out proper with nonlethal damage. I have this sneaking suspicion (yes, it is a bad pun) that the paralyze option was placed in for the NPC Assassin to have time to gloat over the PC. Seriously, it looks like they wanted to say that you coup de grace the target for a death attack but thought it would be far too powerful to allow for a mostly wasted three rounds. Study time is good in writing, but feels akward.

The weapon and armor proficiency are pretty good, an especially nice touch was "dagger (any type)". Welcome to the world of tiny exotic weapons.

Sneak attack just doesn't fit super well for flavor. It does fit, do not think that I mean it doesn’t, the only problem is that it just feels too much like so many other stealthy classes. A CAdv Ninja's sudden strike would have fit better in my view, perhaps bumping up the damage dice. (The following is an idea is a likeness of a fellow posters idea, however I can not remember the name to credit said poster properly.) A d8 or d10 sneak attack that only works against flat-footed targets doesn't sound broken to me, powerful but not broken. Even then, I feel that the assassin should have a flat number instead of a roll to show a sort of constancy in their methods. Again, that may just be me.

The spells have obvious uses but like so many PrC spell lists it feels like it was tacked on when someone noticed that a class was lacking something. Each spell was well chosen however, and as mentioned above the SC adds some really fun spells to be used. In fact, I have felt the temptation to try to playtest an Assassin with these spells.

"Save Bonus against Poison" Who had this idea? It is an ability as bland as it's name. Beyond that, how often is the assassin at risk of poison? This could be more situational than the Death Attack. The only instance coming to mind is the Assassin getting disarmed by a monk and stabbed with his own knife.

As a class, you could do better. If you want to do the stealthy assassin then the DMG Assassin is a fair choice. Not the best, but it still has potential to be very fun.
Nitan
11-26-06, 02:06 PM The roleplay is sort of stupid. Kill someone just to join? That's just silly.

Assassin: Congratulations! You're an assassin now!

Guy: But I killed people for money before. So wasn't I a-

Assassin: Absolutely not!
The_Shaman
11-26-06, 09:00 PM BTW, assassin spells allow you to death attack from range, eventually. I am glad that various supplements introduced more swift-action spells that enhance one attack: this is the kind of "magic" that rangers and assassins should have, not the likes of shield and detect good.
OneWinged4ngel
11-26-06, 09:03 PM Death attack just isn't... very good...

Sneak attack tends to be better.
The_Shaman
11-26-06, 09:28 PM Well, a death attack is a sneak attack with some bonus properties. If it doesn't work, you just deal several d6s of standard SA damage. If it does, "shrug". Of course, it also helps if the first attack is with a well-poisoned blade. If you're an assassin, might as well really play the game how it's supposed to be played.
Treantmonklvl20
11-26-06, 09:30 PM If you want to maximize your SA, you are best off either sticking with straight rogue or go Assasin.

Giving up skill points hurts though...getting the spells is kinda nice.

Decent PrC, but not broken
Roivas
11-26-06, 09:44 PM YOu all might be looking at this from a skewed preception. True, the class is highly situational and one of the requirements is to be evil, ut this class looks more like a GM toy than a player one. An assassin can be a terrifying fight for the players, particularly if they opperate with a blackguard companion.
As far as PCs go, the class works fine if you don't mind being evil. You just might feel a bit weaker against consturcts and undead, but most rouges are worthless against the same creatures and you get spells too. Assassin is a fun prestidge class for the whole family.
Optimator
11-26-06, 11:03 PM Thanks for the replies.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Optimator 11-26-06, 02:14 AM	I was just wondering how people feel the Assassin PrC stacks up to others in terms of general, overall effectiveness. Surely the Spell Compendium helps them out a good deal, but what does everyone think?
KurenaiYami 11-26-06, 04:14 AM	I was just wondering how people feel the Assassin PrC stacks up to others in terms of general, overall effectiveness. Surely the Spell Compendium helps them out a good deal, but what does everyone think? Mediocre. Love it for the roleplay, though.
TheDarkLord 11-26-06, 04:20 AM	Mediocre. Love it for the roleplay, though. Yeah, I'm going to agree. I do give the assassin an option though, instead of the set in stone spellcasting ability, if you have a spellcasting class going into the assassin I'll let you have a +1 Casting Level at every even numbered level.
The_Shaman 11-26-06, 05:06 AM	Hm, doesn't that leave the Vengeance Taker (from Underdark) a bit too weak in comparison?
TheDarkLord 11-26-06, 05:08 AM	Hm, doesn't that leave the Vengeance Taker (from Underdark) a bit too weak in comparison? If your referring to me, I don't own underdark. But... If you wanted to send the specs on that PrC through a PM then... maybe.. Im joking of course... or am I... really though.. :D
cthascott 11-26-06, 09:12 AM	Easy to meet pre-reqs, sneak attack right off the bat, good class skills, rockin' spells, and of course the awesome flavor. Overall, a good Prc. Too many people want their PC to be able to do everything, and we've come to expect WoTC to print out Prc's that give it to us. This class lets you role-play and roll-play. A classic Prc from the first book in the 3.0/3.5 era to print Prc's. I like the +1 existing spell casting variant DarkLord, I've used that before. There's my two cents.
Dark Stryke 11-26-06, 09:17 AM	I like the class. It may be a bit "above the curve" compared to your basic rogue, but it's not what I would call overpowered. On the other hand, I don't consider it particularly weak, either. With easy Pre-Reqs, spellcasting, and a good ability (sneak attack), assassin is a great class for many melee/sneaky types to branch into. This one is very solid. Wizards did a good job with this one.
Particle_Man 11-26-06, 10:59 AM	It suffers a bit from two problems: 1) Lots of creatures and characters are immune to sneak attack, and this only gets worse as you get higher in level. 2) Also as you get higher in levels, lots of creatures are Big, meaning lots of HD and lots of Con, and generally a great fort save. So even if you can get a sneak attack in, the chance of a death attack actually succeeding is remote (around the 5% level sometimes...sad, really). On the other hand, if you stay in the city and have only humanoid opponents, it is more workable.
VonRichthofen 11-26-06, 11:17 AM	As to my humble point of view, it's a good PrC - but highly situational. As others have said before, it depends on the campaign. It might range from pretty powerful in a humanoid-centred surrounding to utter crap in a place where undead, elementals, plants and other critters immune to crits abound. Also, while highly stylish, the Death Attack ability is uber-situational and should be considered carefully if thought of as the "prime ability" of the assassin.
ninjarabbit 11-26-06, 11:30 AM	Average overall
The_Normal_Anomaly 11-26-06, 01:23 PM	Perhaps it is just me but I have always seen the Assassin prestige class to be the so-called fighter of prestige classes. It has awesome flavor and although I have never had the chance to play it it does look like fun. The only problem is that death attack was a poorly done ability in my opinion. I would have much rather had something that could work at a range, but then again I think sneak attack should work out at a range, perhaps with more negative modifiers than a normal attack but still, it would be great to get that natural twenty with a death attack out at your max range and yell "Headshot". How exactly is the Assassin paralyzing the target with the death attack? This can end up better than a death attack result because you could coup de grace for the duration of the effect which is an almost certain kill if no one could stop you. It is also great to disable a non-target, of which you could then knock out proper with nonlethal damage. I have this sneaking suspicion (yes, it is a bad pun) that the paralyze option was placed in for the NPC Assassin to have time to gloat over the PC. Seriously, it looks like they wanted to say that you coup de grace the target for a death attack but thought it would be far too powerful to allow for a mostly wasted three rounds. Study time is good in writing, but feels akward. The weapon and armor proficiency are pretty good, an especially nice touch was "dagger (any type)". Welcome to the world of tiny exotic weapons. Sneak attack just doesn't fit super well for flavor. It does fit, do not think that I mean it doesn’t, the only problem is that it just feels too much like so many other stealthy classes. A CAdv Ninja's sudden strike would have fit better in my view, perhaps bumping up the damage dice. (The following is an idea is a likeness of a fellow posters idea, however I can not remember the name to credit said poster properly.) A d8 or d10 sneak attack that only works against flat-footed targets doesn't sound broken to me, powerful but not broken. Even then, I feel that the assassin should have a flat number instead of a roll to show a sort of constancy in their methods. Again, that may just be me. The spells have obvious uses but like so many PrC spell lists it feels like it was tacked on when someone noticed that a class was lacking something. Each spell was well chosen however, and as mentioned above the SC adds some really fun spells to be used. In fact, I have felt the temptation to try to playtest an Assassin with these spells. "Save Bonus against Poison" Who had this idea? It is an ability as bland as it's name. Beyond that, how often is the assassin at risk of poison? This could be more situational than the Death Attack. The only instance coming to mind is the Assassin getting disarmed by a monk and stabbed with his own knife. As a class, you could do better. If you want to do the stealthy assassin then the DMG Assassin is a fair choice. Not the best, but it still has potential to be very fun.
Nitan 11-26-06, 02:06 PM	The roleplay is sort of stupid. Kill someone just to join? That's just silly. Assassin: Congratulations! You're an assassin now! Guy: But I killed people for money before. So wasn't I a- Assassin: Absolutely not!
The_Shaman 11-26-06, 09:00 PM	BTW, assassin spells allow you to death attack from range, eventually. I am glad that various supplements introduced more swift-action spells that enhance one attack: this is the kind of "magic" that rangers and assassins should have, not the likes of shield and detect good.
OneWinged4ngel 11-26-06, 09:03 PM	Death attack just isn't... very good... Sneak attack tends to be better.
The_Shaman 11-26-06, 09:28 PM	Well, a death attack is a sneak attack with some bonus properties. If it doesn't work, you just deal several d6s of standard SA damage. If it does, "shrug". Of course, it also helps if the first attack is with a well-poisoned blade. If you're an assassin, might as well really play the game how it's supposed to be played.
Treantmonklvl20 11-26-06, 09:30 PM	If you want to maximize your SA, you are best off either sticking with straight rogue or go Assasin. Giving up skill points hurts though...getting the spells is kinda nice. Decent PrC, but not broken
Roivas 11-26-06, 09:44 PM	YOu all might be looking at this from a skewed preception. True, the class is highly situational and one of the requirements is to be evil, ut this class looks more like a GM toy than a player one. An assassin can be a terrifying fight for the players, particularly if they opperate with a blackguard companion. As far as PCs go, the class works fine if you don't mind being evil. You just might feel a bit weaker against consturcts and undead, but most rouges are worthless against the same creatures and you get spells too. Assassin is a fun prestidge class for the whole family.
Optimator 11-26-06, 11:03 PM	Thanks for the replies.