Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sleepwalker13666 06-26-07, 06:36 PM	Astronomancer The Astronamancer is an arcane spellcaster that realizes there is more to the fragile world than we know and seeks to uncover it's secrets. By learning to tap into the fabric of the universe he learns to wield divine power along side his arcane prowess, but by learning this knowledge his mind walks the razors edge of enlightenment and madness. Adventures: Astonomancers frequently journey in hopes to acquire more knowledge, like most spellcasters they are not fit for combat but their magic will give them the edge they need to survive. Abilities: Live most spellcasters a high constitution is important, but intelligence is the astronomancers most important stat, with either constitution or wisdom being a close second. Alignment While they may be of any alignment. most astronomancers start their careers with a lawful alignment, if they succumb to the madness of their magics it is not uncommon for them to become chaotic. Religion: Most Astronomancers fail to acknowledge the power of gods, they think of them in measurable finite terms. The few that choose to worship gods often choose gods of knowledge of magic and knowledge such as Bocob and Wee-jas. Background: Astronomancers most likely studied astronomy in youth, and had a fascination with magic, as they grew older the took pride in their studies. Races: Humans are the most common of Astronomancers, few other races wish to put forth the kind of discipline to take up a career that can drive them insane. Other Classes: While most classes can benefit from the Astronomancers abilities, most are wary of their new companion, particularly those you use divine magic such as clerics and paladins. though so long as the astronomancer can keep his head together suspicions will usually fade. Starting Age: As Wizard Starting Gold: 5d4 x10 (125 gp) Hit Dice: 1d4 Skills Per Level: 3+Int mod x4 Lv 1, 3+Int mod Lv 2+ Class Skills: Concentration (con), Knowledge: Arcane (int), Knowledge: Planes (int), Knowledge: Religion (int), Listen (wis), Spellcraft (int), and Spot (wis). Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Astronomancers are proficient in dagger and quarterstaff. Astronomancers are proficient in light armor and no shields. Lv B.A.B. Fort Refl Will Special 01) +0 +0 +0 +2 Brink of Madness 02) +1 +0 +0 +3 Transdimensional Spell 03) +1 +1 +1 +3 Walk the Void 1x day 04) +2 +1 +1 +4 05) +2 +1 +1 +4 Astral Spell 06) +3 +2 +2 +5 Walk the Void 2x day 07) +3 +2 +2 +5 08) +4 +2 +2 +6 09) +4 +3 +3 +6 Walk the Void 3x day 10) +5 +3 +3 +7 Twilights Path 11) +5 +3 +3 +7 Improved Astral Spell 12) +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 Walk the Void 4x day 13) +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 14) +7/+2 +4 +4 +9 15) +7/+2 +5 +5 +9 Walk the Void 5x day 16) +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 17) +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 18) +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 Walk the Void 6x day 19) +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 20) +10/+5 +6 +6 +12 Divine Clarity Lv 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 01) 2/2 -/- -/- -/- -/- -/- -/- -/- 02) 3/3 1/0 -/- -/- -/- -/- -/- -/- 03) 4/3 2/1 -/- -/- -/- -/- -/- -/- 04) 4/3 2/2 1/0 -/- -/- -/- -/- -/- 05) 4/3 3/3 2/1 -/- -/- -/- -/- -/- 06) 4/3 3/3 2/2 1/- -/- -/- -/- -/- 07) 4/3 3/3 3/2 2/0 -/- -/- -/- -/- 08) 4/3 4/3 3/3 2/1 1/- -/- -/- -/- 09) 4/3 4/3 3/3 3/2 2/- -/- -/- -/- 10) 4/3 4/3 4/3 3/2 2/0 1/- -/- -/- 11) 4/3 4/3 4/4 3/3 3/1 2/- -/- -/- 12) 4/3 4/3 4/4 4/3 3/2 2/- 1/- -/- 13) 4/3 4/3 4/4 4/3 3/2 3/0 2/- -/- 14) 4/4 4/3 4/4 4/4 4/3 3/1 2/- 1/- 15) 4/4 4/4 4/4 4/4 4/3 3/2 3/- 2/- 16) 4/4 4/4 4/4 4/4 4/3 4/2 3/0 2/- 17) 4/4 4/4 4/4 4/4 4/4 4/3 3/1 3/- 18) 4/4 4/4 4/4 4/4 4/4 4/3 4/2 3/0 19) 4/4 4/4 4/4 4/4 4/4 4/3 4/3 3/1 20) 4/4 4/4 4/4 4/4 4/4 4/4 4/4 4/2 (Arcane/Divine) Spellcasting: The Astronomancer is an Arcane spellcaster, however his study of the universe and magic opens his eyes to the divine magics woven into the fabric of every being, and is able to draw upon them. the knowledge of this divine magic comes with a price, as they can potentially drive him mad. Astronomancers use their intelligence to determine spells Dcs and bonus arcane spells (they can not get bonus divine spells), but uses wisdom to determine spell Dcs of his divine spells. An Astronomancer knows a number of spells equal to his intelligence modifer times his level, spells known must be divided between arcane and divine. An Astronomancer must memorize and prepare his arcane spells from a spellbook ahead of time, he can cast his divine spells and astronomy spells spontaneously. An astronomancer may opt to leave arcane spell slots open to use for spontaneous Astronamy spells. Astronamy spells may be cast as arcane or divine. Astronomancers select their spells known from all sorcerer/wizards spell list, any 3 domains of their choice and the astronomy school. Brink of Madness: Every time, upon reaching a new level, the Astronomancer must make a will save equal to 10+ 1/2 Atronomancer Level + Highest Level Divine spell known, or gains a point of depravity (see Heroes of Horror for more information on depravity). He must also make this save at level 1. Multi-Classing Note: If the astronomancer takes a prestige class that continues their arcane advancement, they only gain their arcane spells per day even though they cast divine spells as arcane, only by taking a class that advances both arcane and divine (such as mystic theurge or true necromancer) will they continue to advance in both. Transdimensional Spell: At level 2 the astronomancers spells can reach beyond the void, all spells casted by him act as though under the effect of the Transdimensional Spell metamagic feat (see complete arcane). Walk the Void: The astronomancer is able to reach beyond the world and become apart of another. The astronomancer can become ethereal for 1 round per level as a standard action. The astronomancer can choose to end this ability prematurely as a free action. Astral Spell: The Astronomancer may choose to make any spell of his with an energy type and a standard or quicker casting time, an astral spell, this changes the energy type to astral energy, making a spell an astral spell increases the casting time to a full round action. Twilights Path: The astronomancer gains the ability to walk in the umbral plane whenever darkness falls, this functions similar to the shadowalk spell except that it can only be preformed at night, and the astronomancer can only take himself, however unlike shadow walk he is not thrown off course. The astronomancer may use this ability at will. Improved Astral Spell: The astronomancers skill of manipulating astral energy has improved, now when using his astral spell ability, the spell does an additional 50% damage of astral energy. Divine clarity: The astronomancers mind makes sense of the powers he has toyed with for so long, he automatically loses his accumulated depravity, gains a +2 divine bonus to Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma, gains a Spell Resistance of 25 and changes his creature type to native outsider. New Energy type: Astral Energy Astral Energy is power drawn directly from the void of space, astral energy functions as 1/2 force and either 1/2 positive or 1/2 negative energy, the astronomacer decides before casting a spell with astral energy whether it will be drawn from positive or negative energy. Creatures immune or resistant to one of these energy types will only be partially affected, creatures immune to both types will be completely immune. I apologize for current small number of spells, I have about 25 more on the way, I didn't fell live typing them all done at the moment New Spells Astral Bolt School: Astronomy Components: V, S Casting Time: Standard Range: Short 10ft per caster level Target: Single Duration: Instant Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: Negates "The caster reaches his hand behind him, his hand can be seen tearing through the planar fabric and he pulls forward a ball swirling in umbral darkness." This spell allows the caster to draw forth some astral energy and channel it into a deadly bolt. The caster makes a ranged touch attack, if successful the bolt deal 1d8 damage +2 per caster level. to a maximum of +20 at level 10. Astromancy School: Astronomy Components: V, S, M Casting Time: 1 minute Range: personal Target: Self Duration: Instant Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: None "As the caster finishes drawing the runes on the ground a light glows within the runes and draws itself into the caster." Astronomancy allows the caster to call upon a minor divination, he must choose fate, wisdom or destiny. Only one question may be asked. Fate: The condition or general whereabouts of any one individual may be divined. The caster may divine the individual in question is "save", "alive", "in great danger","nearby","far away", etc, if desired the general direction in which an individual may be found can also be discerned ie north, south-east. Wisdom: The wisdom or advisability of any single course of action may be determined in advance; ie "is it safe to cross the swamp by day" "is it wise to offer a bride to the city magistrate". Only yes or no answers may be divined, if a question cannot be answered in a yes or no the spell fails. Destiny: The cast may determine whether a given event of circumstance will occur in the near (24 hour) future, ie, 'will we encounter goblins in the swamp'. Only yes or no question may be asked, if a question cannot be answered with a yes or no question the spell fails. The material component for this spell is chalk. Fortune School: Astronomy Components: V, S Casting Time: Standard Range: Self Target: Self Duration: 1 round per level, maximum of 5 rounds. Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: None "As the caster completes his spell he is cloaked in a shimmering twilight which is quickly absorbed." the caster taps into the power of the fates and draws a temporary blessing, he gains a +1 bonus to saves, and his spell Dcs increase by 1. Further any instances of luck or chance will have altered results, they will move one step either further or back in direction to his favor. Initiative of Aries School: Astronomy Components: V, S Casting Time: Immediate Range: Personal Target: Self Duration: 1 Round Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: None "The caster makes a quick gesture and gruffs like a ram, the symbol of Aries glows upon his forehead and his eyes bear a keen sense of swiftness." Once cast the caster is not considered flat-footed (if he was), and can not be considered flat footed for the remainder of the round. Lesser Incantation of the Moon School: Astronomy Components: V, S, M Casting Time: 1 Minute Range: Touch Target: None Duration: 1 Hour Lv/ Max 5 Hours Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: None " An orb of darkness grows within the center of the completed runes, drowing out the light." This spell functions as the darkness spell, but takes much longer to complete, however last much longer as well. The globe of darkness may be as small as 2 inches in diameter, or as large as 20 foot diameter. The material component for this spell is a piece of basalt used to scratch runes into the ground. Lesser Incantation of the Sun School: Astronomy Components: V, S, M Casting Time: 1 Minute Range: Touch Target: None Duration: Duration Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: None " A beacon of brilliance glows within the center of the completed runes, brightening the darkness." This functions as the light spell, but takes much longer to complete, however last much longer as well. The globe of light may be as small as 2 inches in diameter, or as large as 20 foot diameter. Chartomancy School: Astronomy Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 round Range: Touch Target: Self Duration: 1 round/level Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: None "Your eyes glow a soft blue, as you look at the script before you the runes reshape and move until the eventually make sense." This spell functions as a combination of read magic and comprehend language. Contra-Influence of Gemini School: Astronomy Components: V, S, M Casting Time: Standard Range: Personal Target: Self Duration: 1 Hour Saving Throw: Will/ Partial Spell Resistance: Yes "With the completion of a subtle gesture the merchants hostile reactions quickly pass and you are suddenly spoken to a respectful manner." By invoking the sign of Gemini, you are allowed to exert a minor influence on any single individual, causing the subject to to react in a contrary manner to it's normal behavior. For example if a person is acting hostile towards you this spell would cause them to act in a friendly manner if they failed their save, likewise you can cause a friendly target to act in a hostile manner. A failed save changes the targets attitude to change to helpful or hostile depending on their initial attitude, a passed save moves their attitude 1 step closer towards the desired result. The material component for this spell is a minor shard. Lesser Incantation of Mars School: Astronomy Components: V, S, M Casting Time: Full Round Range: Personal Target: Self Duration: 1 Minute/ Level Saving Throw: none Spell Resistance: none " Upon completion of the ritual, the runes in the ground rise and circle around you forming into spectral red armor." You draw a summoning circle around yourself and invoke Mars, while under the influence of mars you gain a +1 to hit and damage, as well as a +1 deflection bonus to Ac per 5 levels. lastly you gain proficiency in any one weapon of your choosing. The material component for this spell is dried and powdered blood of a strong animal such as a bull or bear, used to draw the circle. You might also enjoy: Nightshaper (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=12835104#post12835104) Gypsy (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=13024940#post13024940)
Sleepwalker13666 06-27-07, 06:03 AM	:confused: 159 views, no comments, does it suck that much? :weep: Anything, good, bad, sucks, what crack am I smoking? Any feedback? Please, buddies, pals, friends... :allalone:
Sleepwalker13666 06-30-07, 07:56 PM	Well despite the apparent lack of interest I finished out the first level spells, hopefully will have more done by he end of the day.
Sleepwalker13666 07-18-07, 10:29 AM	Despite the continued lack of interest in this class I've added a few of the level 2 spells to this class, I will probably have level 3 spells listed by Friday. I have all the spells written out I just don't have them typed yet, I have trouble staying focused when typing out spells so it might be awhile before they are all out. :weep: :allalone: :confused:
Leonis472 07-18-07, 10:46 AM	Well, as for Brink of Madness, I don't know that studying and invoking the night sky would impose that sort of depravity. Perhaps having one's head so absorbed and obsessed with knowledge would make him less empathetic and more distant, removing Charisma or perhaps Wisdom. That seems a better-placed trade-off, that while one is attaining the heavens he is abandoning the earth, caring less and less for individuals on it and more for the "big picture" of the universe, if indeed he cares at all for his cohabitants on his particular orbital dust speck. And perhaps make astrononomy a subschool of invocation? It has potential. Sad to see no one post.
Sleepwalker13666 07-18-07, 10:51 AM	Well, as for Brink of Madness, I don't know that studying and invoking the night sky would impose that sort of depravity. Perhaps having one's head so absorbed and obsessed with knowledge would make him less empathetic and more distant, removing Charisma or perhaps Wisdom. That seems a better-placed trade-off, that while one is attaining the heavens he is abandoning the earth, caring less and less for individuals on it and more for the "big picture" of the universe, if indeed he cares at all for his cohabitants on his particular orbital dust speck. And perhaps make astrononomy a subschool of invocation? It has potential. Sad to see no one post. OMG, A RESPONSE. :eek: Hadn't considered making astronomy a sub-school, though I will take that into consideration. I 'll take a look at the depravities and see if I can narrow the lunacies the astronomancer may endure, Originally I was going to use the call of chtulu sanity rules, but I felt that would be a larger turn off than the depravity score. Thank you for your feedback, this class really needed some kind of response for me to keep an interest in updating it.
Leonis472 07-18-07, 11:03 AM	Yea! A response! BUM BUM BAAAHHHHHH I was just thinking of the Alienist from I think the Complete Arcane. Anyway, her madness didn't come from study but from changing herself through her exploits, becoming less and less human. At one point she stops aging, and the hideous powers from beyond take her when her time is up or something. Since normal wizards and sorcerers don't go crazy and stuff, perhaps make it a class feature that the Astronomancer experiments on himself to attain the aspects of the cosmos. As monks become like outsiders, perhaps make these become more and more like outsiders too, only . . . outer. From the outer outside, like the far reaches of it. :D And no thanks necessary. You do good work, it seems natural to support it.
Leonis472 07-18-07, 11:16 AM	his mind walks the razors edge of enlightenment and madness.I'm seeing more of what you mean now. Reminiscent of conspiracy theorists, how all their high math and high logic drives them to see patterns which aren't there. I suppose studying the celestial movements in depth at all--let alone their spiritual significance--is like reverse-engineering a clock the size of Jupiter. I can see the madness aspect for certain now. New Energy type: Astral Energy Astral Energy is power drawn directly from the void of space, astral energy functions as 1/2 force and 1/2 negative energy,I don't know. I tend to see stars as massive islands of positive energy floating in a sea of negative, with concentrations of both throughout. Perhaps make it more universal, no pun intended, just as an idea. Maybe make it so the Astronomancer can channel any of the energies in the universe into destructive or creative power. Since all five energies are around on the planet, and positive and negative, why wouldn't the Astronomancer specialize in the whole shebang instead of just negative and force? I don't see how a star is all negative and force energies. And if the stars are largely positive energy, why wouldn't an astronomancer want to channel their power? Maybe make it so the astronomancer declares what energy to work with when he prepares spells, and can change that if he stops to re-prepare spells later. Once decided, he prepares half the damage of energy-damaging spells as energy of that type. For instance, he decides to study chiefly force energy, so half of any spell he casts which deals energy damage (such as a fireball) would be of the force type. Anyway, I work third shift, so I'm off to bed. I'll have an eye on this thread.
Tequila_Sunrise 07-18-07, 12:38 PM	There are a few things that merely bug me about this class, but my only real problem with it concerns its spells. Why uphold the arcane/divine divide with a class that casts both? And why less divine spells than arcane? Why make one side spontaneous and the other preparation? Why make one side Wis based while the other is Int based? Why give the class a delayed progression? I'm guessing that a lot of your answers will be "to compensate for being able to cast divine and arcane spells." Don't be misled by d&d's sacred cow tradition of dividing arcane and divine; there's nothing inherently more powerful about a character who can cast both. Sure, there's a few neat combos that are available to an arcane/divine caster, but nothing game breaking.
Sleepwalker13666 07-18-07, 04:17 PM	I'm seeing more of what you mean now. Reminiscent of conspiracy theorists, how all their high math and high logic drives them to see patterns which aren't there. I suppose studying the celestial movements in depth at all--let alone their spiritual significance--is like reverse-engineering a clock the size of Jupiter. I can see the madness aspect for certain now. I don't know. I tend to see stars as massive islands of positive energy floating in a sea of negative, with concentrations of both throughout. Perhaps make it more universal, no pun intended, just as an idea. Maybe make it so the Astronomancer can channel any of the energies in the universe into destructive or creative power. Since all five energies are around on the planet, and positive and negative, why wouldn't the Astronomancer specialize in the whole shebang instead of just negative and force? I don't see how a star is all negative and force energies. And if the stars are largely positive energy, why wouldn't an astronomancer want to channel their power? Maybe make it so the astronomancer declares what energy to work with when he prepares spells, and can change that if he stops to re-prepare spells later. Once decided, he prepares half the damage of energy-damaging spells as energy of that type. For instance, he decides to study chiefly force energy, so half of any spell he casts which deals energy damage (such as a fireball) would be of the force type. Anyway, I work third shift, so I'm off to bed. I'll have an eye on this thread.\\ The astral energy subtype was meant to be something unique to them, some of the other astronomy spells will have other energy types such as fire and ice, I was thinking of designing a few meta-magic feats that may use more of it, I might also just drop the astral subtype and change the handfull of spells that have it to say force and negative energy. But it might not be a bad idea to give them a class feature to allow them to change energy types of the spells, this gives me something to consider.
Sleepwalker13666 07-18-07, 04:29 PM	There are a few things that merely bug me about this class, but my only real problem with it concerns its spells. Why uphold the arcane/divine divide with a class that casts both? And why less divine spells than arcane? Why make one side spontaneous and the other preparation? Why make one side Wis based while the other is Int based? Why give the class a delayed progression? I'm guessing that a lot of your answers will be "to compensate for being able to cast divine and arcane spells." Don't be misled by d&d's sacred cow tradition of dividing arcane and divine; there's nothing inherently more powerful about a character who can cast both. Sure, there's a few neat combos that are available to an arcane/divine caster, but nothing game breaking. Thanks for your feedback, to address your concerns: Actually balance and sacred cows had nothing to do with it, Overall it just didn't feel right to pile it all together. Basically what it was meant to be, was like wizards they have learned knowledge which like wizards they must prepare, where they also have energy they can tap into, I felt by keeping them separate, it shows a distinction between what was known and what they are meddling with. As for the split between int and wis, the reason for that is the learned spells, used int, like the wizard, but I felt that the divine spells they wield should require wisdom because there study has only taught them to grab that power, not properly harness it. The delay in divine was done because I felt that this class was not as fluent in handling divine, so they had a smaller number.
ZapRowsdower 07-18-07, 06:51 PM	I really like the idea of a dual caster base class! Here are my thoughts: To summarize what I think of the class, you should compare your class to what a wizard or sorcerer can do. *No Familiar *1 worse spell progression than a wizard. *You can get penalties for leveling up via depravity! Nobody else in the party does. Makes leveling up unfun. *You have to mix your stats between wisdom and intelligence, while other casters only have to depend on one stat for their casting. *No wizard bonus feats (scarce though they are) What you can do that wizards can't *Some new astromancy spells (more on those below) *Cast some cleric spells like a cleric -1 your level, only spontaneously (not that bad) *Learn new spells at a faster rate than a wizard: a character with 18 int will learn 4 new spells per level. --- What I would do is simply the class by taking features from known base classes and modifying them instead of coming up with brand new (and mostly untested ?) mechanics. Here's my take on it: hit die d4 BAB: like a wizard Weapons: like a wizard skill points: like a wizard saves: like a wizard class skills: what you had Spells known: As a wizard (start with 4, learn 2 per level), but from wizard, cleric, or druid, and custom astromancer lists, but not cleric domains, also, no learning from scrolls. Spells per day: At first level, a Astromancer can cast 2 cantrips and a 1st level spell. Thereafter, use the wizard spell progression chart, shifted 1 level. (example: Bob the Astromancer is level 3, so has spells per day equal to 2nd level wizard (4 cantrips and a 1st level spell)). Astromancers can get bonus spells due to high intelligence. ALL Spells spontaneous All spells depend on Int as a casting stat (or wisdom, if you want to change the flavor) *(So far, we're slightly worse than both a sorcerer and a wizard in terms of raw casting. However, our ability to select our spells from both lists and some cool class abilities, see below)* Spells: All slots are created equal. Both arcane and divine spells are cast spontaneously. Arcane spell failure applies on any spell with a somatic component. An Astromancer does not need to use a divine focus to cast divine spells, using his body and mind as the needed vessel. Multiclassing note: An Astromancer's powers stem from his manipulation of planar, astral, and arcane energy, not devotion to nature or the gods. Any prestiege class that advances arcane casting class will improve an astromancer's casting. A prestige class that advances divine casting will not. Astromancer Spells: Designing spells can be pretty tricky, and I'd personally prefer not to have to go through the worry. However if you do design spells I would make them so they are similar in power to the core spells, just they do slightly different things. Remember, a astromancer will have almost all divine and arcane spells to choose from, so its a good idea to not waste time making spells that are redundant or are simply better than existing spells. Critique of level 1: As written, astral bolt is the best level 1 direct damage spell around, and Astromancy is a more flexible combined version of several level 2 divination spells. The Last line of Fortune I don't understand (1 step in his favor?), and the incantations of sun and moon look pretty cool. Initiative of Ares is a great spell, possibly too good (no first round sneak attacks by enemy rogues, you get your dodge bonus to AC, and is cast as a immediate action). Critique of level 2 Chartomancy: Sure, seems ok. Gemini: Huh? Is this a really good version of charm? I don't get it but its confusing and possibly too strong Incantation of Mars: I'm not sure about this. It combines magic weapon (arcane lvl 1) , magic vestment (sorta, divine level 3) and gives you a martial profciency. I guess it's tempered by the fact that it only affects you, and you arent going to be that great of a fighter even with the bonuses. Plus it has a short duration. I would still think hard before introducing this. *(Kinda neat class abilities that I just thought of, not really thought through. I left the level where you get the ability blank )* Astral energy: Idea: Astral energy can be positive or negative. Depending on how your design the class, this could be a permanent choice or even on the fly just before he casts it. Bonus to caster level when casting under open sky, penalty when inside. ? Familiar: At second level, a Astromancer gets a familiar. After a couple levels it gains some weird +1 template (elemental, fiendish, whatever). Later on it gains another template, who knows ? Astral Energy Substitution, Admixture: Similar to the Complete Arcane Feats. An astromancer gains Astral Energy Substitution as a bonus feat when he reaches level X. He gains Astral Energy Admixture as a bonus feat when he reaches level Y. (this is actually pretty awesome because the normal energy substitution doesn't allow you to chose positive or negative energy. Imagine you're fighting undead and you use a Astral (Positive) Substituted Fireball. All your living allies take no damage (force-positive = zero), and the undead take full. ) ?Astral Energy Admixture, improved: the spell slot adjustment for using the Astral Energy Admixture metamagic decreases by 1 when the Astromancer reaches Zth level At Nth level, an Astromancer can cast both a arcane spell and a divine spell simultaneously, in the same action, provided that both are 1/4th of his level or lower. At Mth level, an Astromancer can walk the paths between the world and the void and become ethereal for 1 minute/caster level per day. Going ethereal is a standard action At 20th level, An astromancer turns into some sort of strange outsider and gains the outsider creature type (no longer humanoid). *(Wow! That took a lot longer than I though. I don't mean to horn in on your creative ideas but your concept definitely inspired me ;) )*
Sleepwalker13666 07-19-07, 04:50 AM	I really like the idea of a dual caster base class! Here are my thoughts: To summarize what I think of the class, you should compare your class to what a wizard or sorcerer can do. *No Familiar *1 worse spell progression than a wizard. *You can get penalties for leveling up via depravity! Nobody else in the party does. Makes leveling up unfun. *You have to mix your stats between wisdom and intelligence, while other casters only have to depend on one stat for their casting. *No wizard bonus feats (scarce though they are) What you can do that wizards can't *Some new astromancy spells (more on those below) *Cast some cleric spells like a cleric -1 your level, only spontaneously (not that bad) *Learn new spells at a faster rate than a wizard: a character with 18 int will learn 4 new spells per level. --- What I would do is simply the class by taking features from known base classes and modifying them instead of coming up with brand new (and mostly untested ?) mechanics. Here's my take on it: hit die d4 BAB: like a wizard Weapons: like a wizard skill points: like a wizard saves: like a wizard class skills: what you had Spells known: As a wizard (start with 4, learn 2 per level), but from wizard, cleric, or druid, and custom astromancer lists, but not cleric domains, also, no learning from scrolls. Spells per day: At first level, a Astromancer can cast 2 cantrips and a 1st level spell. Thereafter, use the wizard spell progression chart, shifted 1 level. (example: Bob the Astromancer is level 3, so has spells per day equal to 2nd level wizard (4 cantrips and a 1st level spell)). Astromancers can get bonus spells due to high intelligence. ALL Spells spontaneous All spells depend on Int as a casting stat (or wisdom, if you want to change the flavor) *(So far, we're slightly worse than both a sorcerer and a wizard in terms of raw casting. However, our ability to select our spells from both lists and some cool class abilities, see below)* Spells: All slots are created equal. Both arcane and divine spells are cast spontaneously. Arcane spell failure applies on any spell with a somatic component. An Astromancer does not need to use a divine focus to cast divine spells, using his body and mind as the needed vessel. Multiclassing note: An Astromancer's powers stem from his manipulation of planar, astral, and arcane energy, not devotion to nature or the gods. Any prestiege class that advances arcane casting class will improve an astromancer's casting. A prestige class that advances divine casting will not. Astromancer Spells: Designing spells can be pretty tricky, and I'd personally prefer not to have to go through the worry. However if you do design spells I would make them so they are similar in power to the core spells, just they do slightly different things. Remember, a astromancer will have almost all divine and arcane spells to choose from, so its a good idea to not waste time making spells that are redundant or are simply better than existing spells. Critique of level 1: As written, astral bolt is the best level 1 direct damage spell around, and Astromancy is a more flexible combined version of several level 2 divination spells. The Last line of Fortune I don't understand (1 step in his favor?), and the incantations of sun and moon look pretty cool. Initiative of Ares is a great spell, possibly too good (no first round sneak attacks by enemy rogues, you get your dodge bonus to AC, and is cast as a immediate action). Critique of level 2 Chartomancy: Sure, seems ok. Gemini: Huh? Is this a really good version of charm? I don't get it but its confusing and possibly too strong Incantation of Mars: I'm not sure about this. It combines magic weapon (arcane lvl 1) , magic vestment (sorta, divine level 3) and gives you a martial profciency. I guess it's tempered by the fact that it only affects you, and you arent going to be that great of a fighter even with the bonuses. Plus it has a short duration. I would still think hard before introducing this. *(Kinda neat class abilities that I just thought of, not really thought through. I left the level where you get the ability blank )* Astral energy: Idea: Astral energy can be positive or negative. Depending on how your design the class, this could be a permanent choice or even on the fly just before he casts it. Bonus to caster level when casting under open sky, penalty when inside. ? Familiar: At second level, a Astromancer gets a familiar. After a couple levels it gains some weird +1 template (elemental, fiendish, whatever). Later on it gains another template, who knows ? Astral Energy Substitution, Admixture: Similar to the Complete Arcane Feats. An astromancer gains Astral Energy Substitution as a bonus feat when he reaches level X. He gains Astral Energy Admixture as a bonus feat when he reaches level Y. (this is actually pretty awesome because the normal energy substitution doesn't allow you to chose positive or negative energy. Imagine you're fighting undead and you use a Astral (Positive) Substituted Fireball. All your living allies take no damage (force-positive = zero), and the undead take full. ) ?Astral Energy Admixture, improved: the spell slot adjustment for using the Astral Energy Admixture metamagic decreases by 1 when the Astromancer reaches Zth level At Nth level, an Astromancer can cast both a arcane spell and a divine spell simultaneously, in the same action, provided that both are 1/4th of his level or lower. At Mth level, an Astromancer can walk the paths between the world and the void and become ethereal for 1 minute/caster level per day. Going ethereal is a standard action At 20th level, An astromancer turns into some sort of strange outsider and gains the outsider creature type (no longer humanoid). *(Wow! That took a lot longer than I though. I don't mean to horn in on your creative ideas but your concept definitely inspired me ;) )* Thank you for your feedback, I would like to go over your points individually but the sights shutting down in a few minutes, so before it does I want you to know you've given me some things to consider/
Tequila_Sunrise 07-19-07, 07:28 PM	Actually balance and sacred cows had nothing to do with it, Overall it just didn't feel right to pile it all together. Basically what it was meant to be, was like wizards they have learned knowledge which like wizards they must prepare, where they also have energy they can tap into, I felt by keeping them separate, it shows a distinction between what was known and what they are meddling with. As for the split between int and wis, the reason for that is the learned spells, used int, like the wizard, but I felt that the divine spells they wield should require wisdom because there study has only taught them to grab that power, not properly harness it. The delay in divine was done because I felt that this class was not as fluent in handling divine, so they had a smaller number. Ah I see. Well, it's your class so I won't tell you that it's wrong but I will say this: my favorite class in d&d is the MT and I'm all for turning PrCs into base classes, but I would never ever play this class. I would find your flavor, and accompanying mechanics, too defined and restrictive for my taste. When I look for a class, I look for simple, symmetric and intuitive mechanics that allow me to make up the fluff myself.
Sleepwalker13666 07-19-07, 09:16 PM	Ah I see. Well, it's your class so I won't tell you that it's wrong but I will say this: my favorite class in d&d is the MT and I'm all for turning PrCs into base classes, but I would never ever play this class. I would find your flavor, and accompanying mechanics, too defined and restrictive for my taste. When I look for a class, I look for simple, symmetric and intuitive mechanics that allow me to make up the fluff myself. That's understandable, this class will be going under construction so perhaps the final version will be more appealing to you.
Enchanter_Tom 07-20-07, 02:56 AM	Not to be rude, but this class is lacking. Not only does it have only 7th/7th casting at level 20--a very straightforward theurge build can muster 9th/7th or 8th/8th, but it has no class features, save for something that makes me say, "What." Read the "class philosophy" thread to get a few ideas.
Sleepwalker13666 07-20-07, 06:04 PM	Not to be rude, but this class is lacking. Not only does it have on 7th/7th casting at level 20--a very straightforward theurge build can muster 9th/7th or 8th/8th, but it has no class features, save for something that makes me say, "What." Read the "class philosophy" thread to get a few ideas. Thank you for your feedback, to address your concerns: It wasn't meant to replace the theurge, it was meant to be able to play one from level 1, so a player could get higher level spells by taking a normal theurge route, but has to wait at least 5 levels before he can do it. As too class features i am open to suggestions, a few have been made but I haven't really gone over them yet, my necks been hurting and I can't stay at the cpu for much longer than 45 min to an hour, I've been meaning to make a few changes
Sleepwalker13666 07-20-07, 06:33 PM	Several of zaprowsdowners ideas have been added, I'll try to make a few more updates later today (mostly to spellcasting).
ZapRowsdower 07-20-07, 09:46 PM	You might change it later today, but keep in mind that cantrips only at first level hurts a lot. Bards get cantrips at first level, and they get better hit dice and attack bonus and weapon proficiencies a class ability and..... etc. the interaction between Transdimensional Spell and turning ethereal is kinda cool , but low level enemies are going to have a hard time hitting him with anything, while he can dish out his damage spells. If you want to keep the flavor of "losing your mind from delving too deep into dark secrets", I would tie it more closely to gaining class abilities instead of just a penalty when you level up. For example, you could have a modular class ability like the rogues "special ability" gained at 10th level or the Loremaster (DMG prestige class) "secret". Example: Astromancer's Unfathomable Knowledge Secret: At 4th, 8th, 12th, and 16th level, an Astromancer gains a amazing ability from beyond. Spell Knowledge: An Astromancer learns a number of spells equal to 4 + int mod (or something). This powerful influx of magical knowledge causes the astromancer to permanently lose 2 Charisma. This Secret can be taken multiple times, each time increasing the penalty and learning more spells. Void Spell: Once per day blah blah blah blah (no penalties on this one!) Astral Familiar: Gain a familiar (no penalties on this one either!) Shadow Mind: Gain the slippery mind class ability of a rogue. Lose 2 Strength, as the body sacrifices itself to the mind.
ZapRowsdower 07-21-07, 02:37 AM	Final Point: If this class is constructed to be a low level way to play a mystic theurge, take a close look on what you are providing to Astronomancer that compares to Wizard 3 / Cleric 3: you offer: Whatever class abilities you get from Astronomancer Custom Astromancer Spells Annoying depravity penalties you don't offer: *Full Divine Spell List* Scribe Scroll Extra hit points from 3 Cleric levels Extra Cleric Spells from high wisdom *1 Bonus domain spell/spell level* Inherent Bonuses from Having Cleric Domains (Weapon focus from war domain, example) Turn Attempts (Divine Metamagic?) Heavy Armor Prof (I don't know if you'll use it, probably not) Familiar (Doesn't gain as much once you hit theurge) Furthermore the Astronomancer spell progression is kinda crappy so a Wizard 3/Cleric 3 will have more spells per day (and bonus spells) at most levels than a Astronomancer 6. After the Wizard 3/Cleric 3 enters the mystic theurge class, you have to contend with the fact that a straight Astronomancer will never stack up in terms of divine spells. You will NEVER get level 9 divine spells, even if your chart is currently truncated. If your spell progression ISN'T truncated, and a Astronomancer never gets level 8 and 9 spells then I have to ask why a caster would cripple himself once he reaches high levels.
Leonis472 07-23-07, 09:29 AM	Another suggestion? I was thinking that since Astronomancers spend their time studying and manipulating the cosmos, they could get a special movement ability. Call it "Night Stepping" (or something cooler), and have it function as a shadow walk spell-like ability, usable at will, but only during the night. Have it come in at a level when a normal wizard would get fifth level spells. I know it's a sixth-level spell, but Astronomancers probably should get this early. Let me know what you think; I think this is a great ability that fits thematically. You could also say that this doesn't place the shadowwalkers 1d10x100 feet off from the intended destination.
Sleepwalker13666 07-25-07, 05:05 PM	Another suggestion? I was thinking that since Astronomancers spend their time studying and manipulating the cosmos, they could get a special movement ability. Call it "Night Stepping" (or something cooler), and have it function as a shadow walk spell-like ability, usable at will, but only during the night. Have it come in at a level when a normal wizard would get fifth level spells. I know it's a sixth-level spell, but Astronomancers probably should get this early. Let me know what you think; I think this is a great ability that fits thematically. You could also say that this doesn't place the shadowwalkers 1d10x100 feet off from the intended destination. Sure, sounds good. Twilights Path added.
tristin1985 07-26-07, 11:21 AM	The only unbalanced thing is see with this class is that they can pick from any arcea spell. I would highly recommend making them have a spell book still. Unless you make their own list of spells, being able to conjure up a spell at random is a little much. The divine side is VERY balanced and I like it though. Maybe make them pick their spells for the day still just so they both are prepared instead of one prepared and the other spontaneous. Also, I am very glad that you addressed how PRCs affect the class.
Sleepwalker13666 07-26-07, 12:23 PM	The only unbalanced thing is see with this class is that they can pick from any arcea spell. I would highly recommend making them have a spell book still. Unless you make their own list of spells, being able to conjure up a spell at random is a little much. The divine side is VERY balanced and I like it though. Maybe make them pick their spells for the day still just so they both are prepared instead of one prepared and the other spontaneous. Also, I am very glad that you addressed how PRCs affect the class. Thank you for your feedback, the general consensus seems to be that both spellcastings should be the same, whether spontaneous or memorized, I will probably change it to full memorization. I hadn't noticed i didn't mention a spellbook, they do memorize their arcane spells from books.
Leonis472 07-27-07, 10:20 PM	Regarding Twilight's Path, perhaps if an Astronomancer "gives up" a prepared spell of sixth level or higher he could enhance this ability to let others walk the path with him. My reasons are twofold: 1. Part of the reason to be a Wizard or of a class which is overall wizard-like is the ability to cast spells which benefit the party. 2. If he wanted to move long distances with his party all together and all at once, an Astronomancer would have to actually learn Shadow Walk. Seems kinda silly to me. Something else to consider: Since this ability never fails to arrive on-target and is usable at will, players of astronomancers could abuse this to make small jumps on a battleground, or to appear instantly just on the other side of a gate. The spell is intended to place people off-target, and is impossible to use reliably for short distances (as the spell places one at minimum one hundred feet off-target), and so for all these reasons and more the spell's description does not bother specifying how to use it to perform the equivalent of moving through solid barriers. No one would waste a sixth-level spell to try, anyway, even if the rules left this spell vulnerable in this way. This might be a solution: Invoking this ability and stepping immediately back onto the material plane yields a minimum distance of one mile, due to its interplanar nature. How, if at all, would this ability function in dark places—such as underground—when it is daylight on the surface? Finally, after some reading, I recommend changing it to a supernatural ability. I'm glad you liked the suggestion, and as usual your class is coming along wonderfully. 07/30/07- Perhaps make Astronomancers wait a half-hour after stepping out before stepping in again. The reason for this is so that opportunist players don't use this ability to step right back out again and have moved a mile, doing this many, many times and travelling a much greater distance in a given time than simply using it once and walking as normal. I dunno.