Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kynn Elfson 07-24-05, 06:58 PM	I took a look at the Power/Fun rating of Classes, in Regdar's and realised that everyone thinks the Samurai sucks. I personally thought the Samurai in CWa was a not to bad concept, with their stare down ability and whatnot, but it seems to a be pretty weak class. Especially in the comparison to their historical counterparts. I took a look at the OA Samurai (although it was pretty a pretty quick one) didnt really quiet suit my vision Any thoughts??
Willie the Duck 07-24-05, 07:41 PM	Compared to the historical counterparts? Do we know how powerful a historical samurai is compared to a D&D fighter or wizard? Either fighters or paladins have all the capabilities to emulate a samurai if you choose the right feats, except that some of the social and literary skills a samurai ought to know are cross-class. Sword and Fist has a Samurai PrC that isn't underpowered, although it requires so many feats as prerequisites that it really necessitates you be a fighter beforehand, and they all look the same.
DM Zoc 07-24-05, 07:52 PM	The Samurai lets you TWF without having dexterity. This means you can play a large race with a huge penalty to Dex and still end up hitting twice. It's the rare exception as a TWF type who doesn't need weapon finesse, and can throw everything into Str.
Breetai 07-24-05, 08:07 PM	This may just be me but I've always thought of the samuri as sort of a Paladin Variant along the lines of the Lawful Neutral Paladin. And allow the paladin to cross-class as a fighter. Sure they can have the TWF and take that stuff as bonus fighter feats but still allow the standard limitations I don't see anything wrong with that.
Kynn Elfson 07-25-05, 11:25 AM	hmm all very excellent points. Which, has lead me to agree that the samurai is a focused Fighter/Pally and definatly more cultural than anything, not to mention that not all samurai wielded Katana. Anyone frmo feudal japan would be afraid if the steel eyed gaze of a samurai was turned upon them, yet a norse warrior would laugh at him. hmm cultural indeed!! Thanks!!
CaoSlayer 07-25-05, 11:47 AM	IMO: Use the Oriental Adventures one, made sense althrought isnt very powerfull.
eggplantm 07-25-05, 12:12 PM	What do you really believe sucks so bad about them. As a CW samurai you get several things 1. numerous feats that apply to your ancestral daisho 2. TWF feats that apply even to your AD even if your dex is low 3. numerous abilities to inspire fear in your opponent. Knowing all these things is similar to making a fighter not suck except that the feats you get are a little more pre-planned. I've got some suggestions 1. Put your biggest stat in strength and your next biggest in charisma. You are a warrior but so many of your special abilities work off of charisma so make it count. This is also the plan if you are making a hexblade and a paladin to a lesser extent. Use stat boosting items including potions for you strength and charisma. 2. Plan your feats well. You know you are going to get several feats down the line so choose some others to get right now. This class requires more planning to make it more effective. Don't forget about ability focus for your staredown! 3. Choose your role. What archetypal samurai are you? Warrior, warrior-poet, warrior-noble, bodyguard, general, excel in one knowledge or craft to represent your character's devotion to an artform outside of combat as most samurai did. The samurai can have great and rewarding roleplaying rewards that come factored in to the character concept. Who does the samurai serve? If the character's lord has been slain and you are a ronin, how did it happen and what are your plans? Will you ever serve another lord? Is your ultimate goal to find someone honorable or powerful enough to be your new master? Ultimately, I don't thing the samurai is bad or sucks at all. He is basically a fighter that gets some interesting pre-chosen feats and some fear abilities. If you want to add a little more to the class, here are some options: 1. Ancestral daisho: Begin every samurai with a masterwork set of these two weapons. If your character is not human, choose a different group of weapons like the dwarven waraxe and handaxe for a dwarf or a gnome hooked hammer for a gnome. One medium sized exotic and one light non-exotic is the way to go. Those wishing to multiclass must supply their own before taking up this class. 2. Different feats: Allow samurais to choos a combat style path like rangers can. You can even open it up to mounted combat or power combat. Dragon magazine had an article listing several different combat styles. 3. Expand feat options: look at what has been done for the base classes and expand on feat options for samurai along those same lines. Extra Kiai Smite for instance. This alone can make a samurai much tougher and deadlier. Don't make up anything too new or too different as this is really unnessecary. Feats created along existing lines are readily accepted and approved by other players and DM's. okay...I got long winded there. I think I'm done and I hope that helps.
KingNeo 07-25-05, 12:42 PM	Ok first of all the traditonal weapon of the Samurai in real life was the katana, and I actually cannot recall a true Samurai not wielding one. But back to the subject. Personally I find the Samurai in Complete Warrior to be a little sorry, and not really keeping with the samurai theme. But if you want to make the Samurai stronger do the following: 1) Use the samurai from Oriential Adventure, and give it a better magic weapon progression say something between +15-+20? Next let it be any katana and not just his ancestor's sword and he be set. 2) Use the many Kenshin builds, many will agree that they are much more fun and fairly overpowered. But come on its Kenshin! 3) You could make different styles, which would add flavor to the class, which could give you destinctful ablities. Then give it few more bonus feats, and a magical weapon progression. Just a few suggestions.
DM Zoc 07-25-05, 02:44 PM	I forgot to mention one of the strongest abilities of the samurai: kiai smite! Pair this some of those battledancing slippers, and you have a very deadly prettyboy. Extra smiting is a must. I'm actually using something like this on a BBEG in a gestalt campaign I'm running: paladin of tyrrany/hexblade/samurai into blackguard, picking up three times Cha bonus to saves against spells (only twice against non-spells), and smiting for thrice Cha bonus to attack (only twice the bonus to damage).