Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rudiger_Smith 03-04-06, 07:33 AM	Now lately there have been a lot of alchemist classes going around but I thought I'd give mine a shot. Mine is based around the potion making side of things and can be quite fun (i've playtested it) I'm not sure whether its underpowered or overpowered yet as my DM hasn't really commented and were in a big group. The Alchemist Aristar ran across the scarred earth of the battlefield, feeling the scrorched earth through his worn soles. He reached a group of three men, crowding around half a dozen fallen men. As Aristar aproached, one of the men nodded to him and allowed him to pass. Aristar quickly pulled out several potions from his pouch and began feeding them to the fallen men, and watched as they began to regain the spark of life before his eyes. Suddenly, a tingling at the back of Aristar's neck told him magic was being used, and he looked around and saw the once standing men asleep on the ground. Silently blessing his elven heritage, Aristage turned around and saw a Drow squadron charging towards him. "Sweet Pelor," muttered Aristar, before reaching into his other pouch, the one he didn't like using. Aristar flung a small vial on the ground in front of the Drow and looked away, he'd have roughly 10 seconds whilst they were blinded. He through a second vial down and watched a signal flare go up. Finally, Aristar drank a potion of his own conncoction, and winced at the burning sensation in his chest. He watched as the Drow came to their senses and began running towards him again, and just before they reached him Aristar let out a breath of fire as hot as that of a dragon. The screams of agony made Aristar look away as they were incinerated, the few that remained were suddenly engaged by the soldiers alerted by Aristar's Signal flare, they didn't have a chance. Aristar looked to the east and saw a group of men peppered by Drow poisened arrows, pulling out another potion, Aristar sighed and moved onwards. Game Rule Information I'm really sorry but I still can't work this darn post thingy, please don't hate me. HD: d6 Alignment: Any Abilities: Intelligence is useful to alchemists as it allows good use of the craft skill, also a good constitution and dexterity are useful for staying alive. Skills at Lvl 1: (2 + Int mod) *4 Skills: 2 + Int mod Class Skills: Appraise (Int) Craft (Int) Disable Device (Int) Heal (Wis) Knowledge [arcana] (Int) Listen (Wis) Profession (Wis) Search (Int) Spellcraft (Int) Spot (Wis) Use Magic Device (Cha) Class Abilities Lvl Bab Fort Ref Will Special 1 +0 +2 +0 +2 Brew Potion (1st Level), Alchemical Crafting, Skill Focus 2 +1 +3 +0 +3 Alchemical Cauldron (1d3) 3 +2 +3 +1 +3 Brew Potion (2nd Level) 4 +3 +4 +1 +4 Metamagic Potions, Bonus Feat 5 +3 +4 +1 +4 Brew Potion (3rd Level), Retain Essence 6 +4 +5 +2 +5 Multiple Brews (2) 7 +5 +5 +2 +5 Brew Potion (4th level) Alchemical Cauldron (1d4+1) 8 +6 +6 +2 +6 Skill Mastery, Bonus Feat 9 +6 +6 +3 +6 Brew Potion (5th level) 10 +7 +7 +3 +7 Multiple Brews (3) 11 +8 +7 +3 +7 Brew Potion (6th level) 12 +9 +8 +4 +8 Bonus Feat, Balance of Skills, Alchemical Cauldron (1d6+1) 13 +9 +8 +4 +8 Brew Potion (7th level) 14 +10 +9 +4 +9 Multiple Brews (4) 15 +11 +9 +5 +9 Brew Potion (8th level) 16 +12 +10 +5 +10 Bonus Feat, Quick Crafting 17 +12 +10 +5 +10 Brew Potion (9th level) Alchemical Cauldron (1d8+1) 18 +13 +11 +6 +11 Multiple Brews (5) 19 +14 +11 +6 +11 Skill Perfection 20 +15 +12 +6 +12 Endless Draught, Bonus Feat Weapon and Armour Proficiency: An alchemist is proficient with all simple weapons, as well as light and medium armour as well as shields (not tower shields) Potion Reserve: This class skill is the same as an Artificer's craft reserve but the XP may only be spent on potions. Because of this, the numbers have changed a little. Lvl Potion Reserve 1- 30 2- 60 3- 90 4- 120 5- 150 6- 200 7- 250 8- 300 9- 400 10- 500 11- 700 12- 900 13- 1200 14- 1500 15- 2000 16- 2500 17- 3000 18- 4000 19- 5000 20- 6000 Brew Potion: Beginning at 1st level, an Alchemist gains brew potion as a bonus feat, even if he doesn't meet the prerequisites. An alchemists caster level when brewing potions is the same as his class level. An alchemist can brew any potion for which he has the recipe for in his book (see below). At every level when a wizard would gain a new level of spell, an alchemist gains a new level of potion available to him (eg. 2nd level potions at level 3, 5th level potions at level 9 etc...) The alchemist who brewed the potion is the only one allowed to drink potions of higher than 5th level. He is the only one who can control the vast amounts of energy in his body. An alchemist, unlike a any other class, can create potions with an instantaneous duration, or a potion that doesn't effect the alchemist. For example, an alchemist could brew a 6th level fireball in a potion. To use a potion with an instantaneous duration, an alchemist must throw the potion. An alchemist is especially good at throwing the vials his potions are contained in, and treats them as non-improvised weapons with a range increment of 20ft. To use potions not of the instantaneous duration, but ones that don't effect the caster, such as a potion of charm person, the alchemist must hit the target with a ranged touch. With blanket effects, such as mass charm monster, the potion still must be thrown on the ground as if it had an instantaneous effect. The save DCs for alchemist potions are 10 + spell level + alchemists intelligence modifier. Recipe Book: An alchemist only knows a certain number of recipes for potions, but can easily learn more. An alchemist has 5 recipes + his Int mod in his recipe book at level 1, and at every other level gains 3 recipes. It requires a negligible amount of money to copy a recipe into a recipe book, but apart form the recipes learnt at the beginning of the level, the alchemist can only learn a number of recipes equal to his Int mod. Alchemical Crafting: When an alchemist of at least 1st level rolls for craft (alchemy) checks. His progress is measured by the day, and not the week (eg. your check result * the craft DC represents the amount of silver pieces worth you've accomplished in one day, not one week. An alchemist may create alchemical items despite not being an arcane caster Alchemical Cauldron: An alchemist of second level may pay 100gp for an alchemical cauldron allowing him to make greater quantities of potions. Whenever an alchemist is brewing potions, he may choose to brew it in an alchemical cauldron. If he does so, the cauldron produces 1d3 doses of the potion. At later levels, this number increases. If the spell in the potion has a gold or XP cost, the cost must be paid for every dose. Later on, an alchemist can have multiple potions brewing at once, but only ever one may be in the alchemical cauldron. Metamagic Potions: Beginning at 4th level, an alchemist may create potions that have metamagic in them, such as a maximised cure light wounds. To do this, he simply brews the potion as usuall, but may choose to make it of a higher level and adds the metamagic feat to its effects. For example, an alchemist may create a maximised cure light wounds as a 4th level potion if he had the metamagic feat maximise spell. Retain Essense: At 5th level, an alchemist can use the retain essense ability, as per an artificer. Bonus Feat: At 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th and 20th level, an alchemist gains a bonus feat from either the metamagic or or item creation feats section. Multiple Brews: At 6th level, an alchemist can brew two potions during the day insted of just one. This number of potions increases to three at 10th, four 14th and fifth 18th level. Remember that only one potion may be brewed in an alchemical cauldron. Skill Mastery: At 8th level, an Alchemist may always take 10 on craft (alchemy) checks. Balance of Skills: At 12th level, an alchemist can substitute one of his potion brews for the day for an alchemical item (eg. a 12th level alchemist could brew 3 potions, or 2 potions and a ditherbomb) Quick Crafting: At 16th level, an Alchemist cuts the base price of any alchemical item in half for determining the time taken to create it. Skill Perfection: At 19th level, an alchemist can create any alchemical substance in one day just like he was brewing a potion (so a wyrm ditherbomb, costing 1000gp market price, could be made by a an alchemist in one day by paying 1/3 of its base price) However, the alchemist must succeed on a craft check with a DC 5 higher than normal. Endless Draught At 20th level, an Alchemist can create a potion that can be drunk out of once every day. It provides its benefits as soon as drunk and lasts untill the end of the day. Only spells with a non instantaneous duration may be made into an endless draught and also only spells that affect one the drinker, so no potion of endless fireballs. The endless draught costs double the gold and XP of the normal potion and requires a full week of crafting, doing nothing else. An alchemist may never have more than one endless draught in existance at one time. Important EDIT: In the alchemist class, many abilities refer to potions, but the alchemist can also use these abilities to create dusts, elixirs and oils.
Elbethamore 03-04-06, 11:23 AM	Other than the ability to craft acid or alchemists' fire, this class lacks some offensive punch. Maybe they can get some special potions that have spell-like effects when thrown. For skills, try Knowledge: Arcana. Heal would be a good skill too. The metamagic potions are unclear. I would assume that the potions are brewed as if they were the modified spell level appropriate to the feat applied. In general, this class lacks versatility. Potion brewing is a limited art, and this class only does it slightly better than a wizard with the appropriate feat.
frasmage 03-04-06, 11:50 AM	so wait, you can craft lvl 9 potions with this guy!? Are the craft points per day or gained again only at a new lvl? You should add a clause that allows you to craft offensive spells (fireball or the like) that can be thrown, otherwise thsi is a little weak
Zepherin 03-04-06, 12:22 PM	If i remember correct there are only four levels of potions.
Rudiger_Smith 03-04-06, 04:44 PM	Okay, thanks for your input, I'll answer some questions and see if I can write this class better. Other than the ability to craft acid or alchemists' fire, this class lacks some offensive punch. Maybe they can get some special potions that have spell-like effects when thrown. Your quite right about that, aside from ditherbombs and alchemist fire, they do lack punch, maybe if i said you could make a potion of fireball or something similar, or maybe just stright damage from vials of acid. The metamagic potions are unclear. I would assume that the potions are brewed as if they were the modified spell level appropriate to the feat applied. You are correct in your assumption, I wasn't sure how to write it so i'll try fix it up. so wait, you can craft lvl 9 potions with this guy!? Yes, yes you can, that is the beauty of it. I had the idea of drinking a potion and screaming like a banshee, but I didn't get it written properly. Are the craft points per day or gained again only at a new lvl? The craft points are aexatly like a normal artificers so can be used only each level, I gave them more as they are only allowed to brew potions with it. If i remember correct there are only four levels of potions. Normally there are only forur levesl, cantrips, 1st, 2nd and 3rd, but I wanted the Alchemist to be special. Thanks again for the input, I'll make some changes when I get the chance.
Shorty_McShort 03-04-06, 11:44 PM	I like the idea but i just know that there will be someone stupid enough to throw an enlarged fireball potion at someone!
Braids 03-05-06, 01:23 AM	I like it, it's similar to something I've been toying around with in my head. If you don't mind I'd like to use it in my next campaign. I do think they should be able to use Craft (Alchemy) without being an arcane spellcaster. I know it's assumed that he can, but I would state it just to be sure.
Rudiger_Smith 03-05-06, 01:48 AM	If you don't mind I'd like to use it in my next campaign Be my guest, always happy to know someone likes my class. I do think they should be able to use Craft (Alchemy) without being an arcane spellcaster. I know it's assumed that he can, but I would state it just to be sure. Yes, you are entirely correct, I'll include that claus in the alchemical crafting ability.
periscope 03-06-06, 12:26 AM	I noticed this Alchemical Cauldron: An alchemist of second level may pay 100gp for an alchemical cauldron allowing him to make greater quantities of potions. Whenever an alchemist is brewing potions, he may choose to brew it in an alchemical cauldron. If he does so, the cauldron produces enough doses of the potion to supply a number of vials equal to his class level. If the potion has a gold or XP cost, the cos must be paid for every dose. Later on, an alchemist can have multiple potions brewing at once, but only ever one may be in the alchemical cauldron. Does that imply that there are potions without an xp cost? Also, I like this class but I would give it a retain essence feature similar to the artificer otherwise once you use up all your potion points your sunk until next level and the fact that the sacking of xp is never good for the PC's (thats my opinion anyway). My only other complaint (and Im honestly not trying to put you down) is the range of the potions. 30 ft is just not that good maybe increase it at certain levels or gain the far shot feat with vials?
Linkrulesx10 03-06-06, 12:42 AM	You need some way of controlling the other craft feats the alchemist gets since it can get other craft feats as bonus feats but doesnt get any caster level... also what book are ditherbombs in... AND CAN I BE ONE OF THESE IN UR CAMPAIGN ;) :P Also and allow them to make extra light potions or give their potions a rnage increment of 30 feet so it can go further.... or even make magical mystical potion bottle of ownage that are magically propelled...
Rudiger_Smith 03-06-06, 12:58 AM	Whenever an alchemist is brewing potions, he may choose to brew it in an alchemical cauldron. If he does so, the cauldron produces enough doses of the potion to supply a number of vials equal to his class level. If the potion has a gold or XP cost, the cos must be paid for every dose. I'm sorry if this caused confusion, what I meant was that if the spell in the potion has an XP or gold cost, it must be paid for every dose. Brewing a potion of say, enlarge person in an alchemical cauldron would cost just the same as a regular potion of enlarge person. But a potion of Wish at 17th level in an alchemical cauldron would cost 8500xp as well as normal costs. Also, I like this class but I would give it a retain essence feature similar to the artificer otherwise once you use up all your potion points your sunk until next level and the fact that the sacking of xp is never good for the PC's (thats my opinion anyway). Good idea, I was toying with the idea butI didn't know what items could be salvaged, suggestions would be useful. My only other complaint (and Im honestly not trying to put you down) is the range of the potions. 30 ft is just not that good maybe increase it at certain levels or gain the far shot feat with vials? Maybe I should change it to 10ft per two levels (min 10ft), or something like that? You need some way of controlling the other craft feats the alchemist gets since it can get other craft feats as bonus feats but doesnt get any caster level I didn't intend one, as I was thinking mainly craft feats such as legendary artisan. also what book are ditherbombs in Races of the DragonAlso and allow them to make extra light potions or give their potions a rnage increment of 30 feet so it can go further.... or even make magical mystical potion bottle of ownage that are magically propelled... Well I am creating a book based around crafting classes and this is one of them (another is the smith), I may include magical potion bottles in the euipment section
Linkrulesx10 03-06-06, 01:07 AM	I know your making a book about it, you talk about it school :p also 20 potions in one say is to much, maybe you shoul allow them to brew a higher GP worth of potions per day and allows them to split this up between as many potions as he likes
Rudiger_Smith 03-06-06, 01:29 AM	Sorry Linkrulesx10, didn't read your name, thought you were some hobo. Any way, I'm realy trying to avoid complication, maybe if I limited the level of potion? I' m thinking of putting in the retain essense ability but I don't know for what items, help wanted, it's almost complete...
Linkrulesx10 03-06-06, 01:31 AM	I saw another PRC have an ability similier to this... Say at level 20 you can brew 5K of potions per day. also you can are able to brew more then one potion aday isnce you can normally brew one aday.... so say I brew 5 500 gp potions and 2 1250 gp potions... that will allow fore more versatility... EDIT: Make them able to steal essece from charge use items only....
Rudiger_Smith 03-06-06, 01:36 AM	Say at level 20 you can brew 5K of potions per day. also you can are able to brew more then one potion aday isnce you can normally brew one aday.... so say I brew 5 500 gp potions and 2 1250 gp potions... that will allow fore more versatility... You just confused me, try typing better, so what your saying is that you have a GP allowance of potions per day? That may work. Make them able to steal essece from charge use items only.... I like, I may make it from potions as well, that seems natural.
Linkrulesx10 03-06-06, 01:45 AM	Ok, Basically they can brew 5K of potions per day split up as liked... That was basically what I am saying... The exact amount at what level can be left up to you... Another idea for the steal essence is instead allow them to be able to mix potions together to make different potions...
Eyeless Blond 03-06-06, 01:48 AM	Also and allow them to make extra light potions or give their potions a rnage increment of 30 feet so it can go further.... or even make magical mystical potion bottle of ownage that are magically propelled... Hm, bottle rockets then? :) Actually that's be a pretty cool idea. The problem here is that it is potentially unbalanced to allow the alchemist to simply brew higher-level potions. The issue is that you are allowing these higher-level potions can be used by anyone, not just the alchemist, so you can get some pretty unbalancing effects at higher levels. So, you have two choices: 1) Disallow higher-level potions to be used by anyone other than the alchemist himself, or an alchemist of equal-greater level who succeedes at a craft(alchemy) check. 2) Instead of higher-level potions, give the alchemist the ability to use multiple potions at once and have the effects stack.
Linkrulesx10 03-06-06, 01:51 AM	ooh I didn't think about other people using them, that could be broken... yeah maybe only other people can use up to level 5 potions...
Rudiger_Smith 03-06-06, 02:02 AM	I agree, I'll add the clause that only the alchemist can use potions higher than levl 5, and in the hands of anyone other than an alchemist, vials of potions are improvised weapons. Eyeless Blonde, I think I'll stay with high level potions, as he is supposed to be a sort of potion wizard, as he gains just as high level spells but in potion format.
Linkrulesx10 03-06-06, 02:11 AM	hmm we need to come up with a RP reason why other people's can't use potions...
Rudiger_Smith 03-06-06, 02:27 AM	maybe the potions are just so ownagely powerful they'll explode when they drink them. Or maybe the benefit gained from them is actually through a bit of magic on the alchemist's behalf?
Linkrulesx10 03-06-06, 02:32 AM	Maybe but what ever you decide make sure it makes sense... And also have a spontanous potion ability where they grab like 3 potions, mix em together and vuwala you have that potion u desperatly needed...
Rudiger_Smith 03-07-06, 02:20 AM	You all know what this is... It's a :bump: Hooray for bumps!
Rudiger_Smith 03-09-06, 02:58 AM	Made some gramatical changes
Rudiger_Smith 03-13-06, 01:06 AM	bump
snowstrider 03-13-06, 10:47 AM	If I recall correctly, thrown vials do not need a weapon proficiency feat, they just have a range increment of 10 feet with a maximum range of 50 feet. As far as the alchemist getting improved range on his potion throwing, I'd suggest using a self-propelled potion that is treated like a metamagic feat applied to potions that makes the spell take up a slot 3 levels higher, I dont know how far it should go though...
Linkrulesx10 03-14-06, 11:46 PM	OK well thae metamagic idea is kinda silly... to have a fireball with a decent range is a level 6 spell... No way, I suggest you make the propulsion alchemical in nature...
Rudiger_Smith 03-17-06, 06:38 PM	bump
bladefingers 03-18-06, 05:26 AM	Instead of having the potion take effect when it hits the ground, it should take effect when it hits any surface.
psychic_infinity 03-18-06, 09:00 AM	How large is an alchemist's cauldron? If you're able to brew multiple potions in it, then it might be too big to carry everywhere. If it is large maybe you could add that an alchemist can magically shrink the cauldron when not in use to pocket size. Also, instead of throwing potions at people, couldn't you also trick them into drinking them? Example: Mixing in a potion of Charm Person with the wine. Pour a glass for your new bestest friend. :P
Lucan_Desmond 03-18-06, 09:58 AM	Yet another cool class Rudiger! I have only one complaint about this one... The cauldron allows you to make a whole lot of potions at once, too many I think, especially since you're only paying for 1 of them! If you want the cauldron to produce extra vials of a potions thats great, but having the limit be the class level is rediculous. I would have it produce like 1d4 +1 vials of a potion instead. Maybe 1d6+1 at most, but not your class level. Thats just my 2 cents! keep up the good work! Good luck and happy gaming!
Rudiger_Smith 03-18-06, 03:57 PM	Thanks for your input, I'll reduce the number of potions the cauldron can make. Also, I'll put in a an EDIT so that the Alchemist can create dusts, elixirs and oils.
Lucan_Desmond 03-19-06, 11:44 AM	I like how you changed the alchemical cauldron. It's much more balanced now. Have you considered creating a "spell list" for the class even though it doesn't cast spells? As it is it can only brew potions with those spells, but it knows ALL SPELLS OF ALL CLASSES. I don't know... that just seems a little... out of control. Plus you've given it the ability to turn ANY spell into a potion... I will end this paragrapgh with this: Potion of Storm of Vengeance. I'll be slapping that one with the DM's Big Stick of "NO" And one more thing I had an idea for that would work well with this class, a new weapon: Vial Launcher Works just like a crossbow, but only fires "test tube" style potion viles. Range increment 30 or 50 ft. Then make the repeater version :D and the hand version :angelhide Imagine that... repeater crossbow... potion of lightning bolt... thats awesome... or worse... 2 weapon fighting, 2 hand crossbows with potions of lightning bolt. Now you're wielding laser pistols! Well I'm out of crazy for now, when I restore it I'll dream about what this class could do some more.
Linkrulesx10 03-20-06, 12:30 AM	hmm... I really think you should let them be able to brew 4K of potions at 20th level but let them choose what it is they want to brew, like 3 potions of fireball, 2 of invisibility and one potion of tenser's transformation... in stead of them being stuck making 5 potions of only one type. Also as I suggested to you IRL you should give them a recipe book where they write recipes but since you don't need any special inks or anything make them mundane... and they discover 3 recipe;s oper level apart form first level... which they have more
Rudiger_Smith 03-20-06, 01:32 AM	I really should create a spell list for the alchemist, but there are just too many spells. I really like Linkrulesx10's idea of a recipe book. But so it isn't limiting i'll make it 5 potions + Int level 1, and 3 potions + 1/2 Int mod at evry other level. But from any spell list.
psychic_infinity 03-25-06, 07:31 AM	Yay :bump:
periscope 04-24-06, 03:21 AM	Why does the Retain Essence feature only apply to charged magical items? I would just extend it to all magic items like the artificer.
Rudiger_Smith 05-19-06, 08:26 AM	I've changed the retain essense ability so it works exactly like an artificer I also wanted to give the class another spin on the boards, see what people think
jago668 05-19-06, 01:58 PM	Brew Potion: Beginning at 1st level, an Alchemist gains brew potion as a bonus feat, even if he doesn't meet the prerequisites. An alchemists caster level when brewing potions is the same as his class level. An alchemist need not know the spell he wishes to replicate in a potion. At every level when a wizard would gain a new level of spell, an alchemist gains a new level of potion available to him (eg. 2nd level potions at level 3, 5th level potions at level 9 etc...) The alchemist who brewed the potion is the only one allowed to drink potions of higher than 5th level. An alchemist, unlike a any other class, can create potions with an instantaneous duration, or a potion that doesn't effect the alchemist. For example, an alchemist could brew a 6th level fireball in a potion. To use a potion with an instantaneous duration, an alchemist must throw the potion. A potion has a range increment 30ft and as soon as the potion bottle hits any surface, the spell takes effect from that spot. (eg. the potion of fireball, mentioned above, can be thrown on the ground up to 30ft away, from that point, a 20ft radius fireball takes effect, with all normal rules.) To use potions not of the instantaneous duration, but ones that don't effect the caster, such as a potion of charm person, the alchemist must hit the target with a ranged touch. In the hands of anyone but an alchemist, vials of potions are improvised weapons. With blanket effects, such as mass charm monster, the potion still must be thrown on the ground as if it had an instantaneous effect. The save DCs for alchemist potions are 10 + spell level + alchemists intelligence modifier. Recipe Book: An alchemist only knows a certain number of recipes for potions, but can easily learn more. An alchemist has 5 recipes + his Int mod in his recipe book at level 1, and at every other level gains 3 recipes. It requires a negligible amount of money to copy a recipe into a recipe book, but apart form the recipes learnt at the beginning of the level, the alchemist can only learn a number of recipes equal to his Int mod. Just something I noticed when reading. Why have a recipe book for potions if the class can potion any spell? Note the bolding was for emphasis to point out the sections I was refering to.
Rudiger_Smith 01-14-07, 08:10 AM	Okay, I've properly formatted the table and fixed up some inconsistencies. Time for another crack at some feedback.