Back Stab / Sneak Attack [Archive] - Wizards Community

Back Stab / Sneak Attack [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Chernevog
10-05-05, 10:58 AM I have a thief with a bow. I want to get my sneak attack damage, but I can't flank. Will being behind the target be enough to get the bonus? Can I use a feint with a bow? Will shooting from my hidden position make them flat footed and if I have multiple attacks then will all those also get the bonus?

How else can I cause my targets to become flat footed?
DrMorganes
10-05-05, 11:04 AM Rules of the Game Archive (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/rg).

Read all 4 parts of "All About Sneak Attacks". Answers to your questions are found within.
Chernevog
10-05-05, 11:06 AM I read it... It doesn't say anything about back attacking an opponent, just flanking. if you can't back attack then there is no point in the theif hiding in combat...
Puca
10-05-05, 11:59 AM You cant "backstab" in this version because (mechnically) there is no back. There are no rules for facing, so no back, so no backstab.

I am trying to find the right place so I can quote you the rule, but I havent got it yet. I am 99% sure that if your opponent cant see you, because your hidden of invisible or whatever, then he is denied his Dex versus you for that attack, enabling you to get sneak attack damage when you attack from concealment.
q'afuu
10-05-05, 12:04 PM if you can't back attack then there is no point in the theif hiding in combat... Hint: when hiding successfully, you're effectively invisible. Also read the rules for sniping under the Hide skill in the PHB.
runestar
10-05-05, 10:31 PM SA is not backstab. If you can catch your foe flat-footed, perhaps via a successful bluff check, you can SA him, but generally, being behind him won't do the trick, unless he was unaware of your presence, which would make him flat-footed anyways.
Maraxus
10-05-05, 10:43 PM Hey, what about that: Let's stay I am a rogue with a bow and also improved unarmed strike or a natural weapon or spiked armor. That way I can threaten my opponent and that way flank him. Do I get sneak attack with the bow, too?
Arandar
10-06-05, 03:01 AM Nope, Sneak Attacks cannot be made with ranged weapons for flanking, as ranged weapons cannot flank.
SwiftFox
10-06-05, 11:39 AM As stated, you cannot flank a creature with a ranged weapon.

Note that there is no 'facing' in D&D's latest incarnation... creatures are assumed to be capable to turning quickly to face any threat, unless (because they are flanked) they cannot face one threat without exposing their back to another, or (because they are flat-footed) they are unaware of that threat.

There are a couple of tricks from non-core D&D books that can allow a rogue to get off sneak attacks against opponents they dont flank or catch flat-footed... one such way is via a feat called 'flick of the wrist' from complete warrior... it allows you to catch your opponent flat-footed mid-combat by drawing and making an attack with a light melee weapon, though it is not a trick you can perform with a ranged weapon nor round-after round.

You might want to consider the scout base class from complete adventurer : it is very simmilar to a rogue or ranger, except that instead of 'sneak attack' it has an ability called 'skirmish', which does extra D6s of damage against opponents if you moved more than 5ft. that round... excellent for a 'shot on the run' type of character.
Esponer
10-06-05, 12:11 PM I am trying to find the right place so I can quote you the rule, but I havent got it yet. I am 99% sure that if your opponent cant see you, because your hidden of invisible or whatever, then he is denied his Dex versus you for that attack, enabling you to get sneak attack damage when you attack from concealment.

Yep, that's right... I can quote you evidence, but it's some an unusual source of the SRD.

While blinking, you take only half damage from area attacks (but full damage from those that extend onto the Ethereal Plane). You strike as an invisible creature (with a +2 bonus on attack rolls), denying your target any Dexterity bonus to AC. - Blink spell

So, as an archer, boost your ability to hide, shoot from there, and you get sneak attack. You can also immediately go hidden again after that, at a penalty (see the Hide skill).
Atar
10-06-05, 02:12 PM Also, you can only sneak attack in the above mentioned ways if you are within 30 ft range of the target.
Grizzled Gryphon
10-06-05, 08:16 PM Something a lot of people seem to miss, is all characters are considered flat footed until they get to act in the first combat round. Which means, if you have iniative on your target, and you can make 4 attacks against him, then all four attacks are sneak attacks. Or so it seems to me, anyway. I am probably missing something, though. That seems a lttle thick...
I am going back and reading all of that again.
Grizzled Gryphon
10-06-05, 08:29 PM As per page 137 of the PHB, it says, and I quote " Flat -Footed: At the the start of battle, before you have had a chance to act (specifically, before your first regular turn in the initiative order), you are flat- footed. (This fact can be very bad if you are attacked by rogues.)" Nowhere does it say that you are no longer flat-footed because of being attacked, so all of the rogues attacks could be sneak attacks if the rogue so chooses. As far as doing sneak attacks mid combat, bluff and such are your best bet.
Tony Vargas
10-06-05, 09:16 PM I have a thief with a bow. I want to get my sneak attack damage, but I can't flank. I've also been playing a Rogue with a bow, so I know how you feel...

Will being behind the target be enough to get the bonus?No, as other's have pointed out, 3E doesn't have facing.

Can I use a feint with a bow? No, it's a melee manuever. What you can do is use Bluff to create a 'distraction,' allowing you to Hide, reposition, and make a new attack from hiding...

Will shooting from my hidden position make them flat footed and if I have multiple attacks then will all those also get the bonus? It will deny them thier DEX bonus, but, IIRC, only vs the first attack if they're not flat footed (if they're in combat).

How else can I cause my targets to become flat footed? Flat-footed is a condition that exists only at the begining of a combat. You need to deny them thier DEX bonus, which can happen a variety of other ways, as well.

One key with a ranged SA rogue is to achieve surprise, this gives you one free attack when you initiate combat. Then, if you win initiative, you get a full attack while the enemy is still flat-footed. My afore-mentioned bow-wielding rogue has a total +11 Init mod, from DEX, Improved Init, and 'Quick Recenoiter (from Complete Adventurer).

If you're fully concealed - Invisible (especially greater invisibility, which'll let you make full SAs), hidden, or just in total darkness (if you can see, such as when you have darkvision and your victim doesn't) - your target is denied it's DEX bonus, and you can SA (however, if your victim has any concealment at all, you can't SA). If your target is climbing, balancing, or grappling, he loses his DEX bonus (but shooting into a grapple is dangerous to the other grappler). If your victim is stunned (not dazed), entangled, held or otherwise immobile, he generally loses his DEX bonus, as well, though, in that case, he's often not worth directing attacks at, unless you'll think he'll get free relatively soon.

Quite a few spells can thus be used to enable SA: Invisibility or Greater Invisibility or Blink on the rogue. Grease, Hold, Sleep, Web, Entangle, etc, on the victim.
serch
10-06-05, 09:34 PM And do be carefull with those nasty barbarians out there :D
Grizzled Gryphon
10-06-05, 10:31 PM Of course, a rogue with Use Magic Device, and a wand of Darkness... Well, that can be fun. Assuming you can see, that is. Make that a wand of Invisibility, and that is even better.
gorfnad the shiznit
10-07-05, 04:47 AM The Whisperknife prestige class (Races of the Wild) grants you a ranged threat ability, however this is granted at the second to the last level of the class. But, it is an awesome class for a halfling wanting to do some interesting sneak attack tactis.
Otherwise, if you want to bluff and feint your way into sneak attacks then look into the Invisible Blade from the Complete Warrior. Fienting in combat as a free action while automatically taking a 10 on the roll is definitely entertaining.
Arandar
10-07-05, 06:36 AM As per page 137 of the PHB, it says, and I quote " Flat -Footed: At the the start of battle, before you have had a chance to act (specifically, before your first regular turn in the initiative order), you are flat- footed. (This fact can be very bad if you are attacked by rogues.)" Nowhere does it say that you are no longer flat-footed because of being attacked, so all of the rogues attacks could be sneak attacks if the rogue so chooses. As far as doing sneak attacks mid combat, bluff and such are your best bet.

I do believe this only accounts for situations where one part is surprised, or neither knows about the other part.

I doubt anyone is flat-footed if they're standing on a field looking at eachother, and one part charges.
arbanafal
10-07-05, 07:04 AM No, it applies to the first round of combat too. The surprise round is a bonus. The rules clearly state:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#flatFooted
"A character who has not yet acted during a combat is flat-footed, not yet reacting normally to the situation. A flat-footed character loses his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) and cannot make attacks of opportunity."

I understand that some DM's may houserule this, but it is in the RAW. Plus, how often will it come up in combat. Once in the first round, and the possiblity of either a move OR an attack action in the surprise round are the only moments in combat that someone will be flat-footed. New enemies entering combat are never flat-footed, they enter at the highest initiative order.
MJ the Prophet
10-07-05, 07:06 AM I was beat to it, but yes, until you act in the first round of combat, you are considered flat-footed.
Thubby
10-07-05, 12:46 PM 1, you can stay hidden during combat
2, you can shoot and hide, at a -10, very good for you, its on the book, just dont know where, sorry
3, all attacks you make while someone is flatfooted are sneak attacks, so if you got six attacks, and they were flatfooted, their all sneak attacks (its lots of fun, try out a thrikreen rogue with multiattack)
and 4 stair deeply into my signerature, you are getting sleepy
Darth_Azalin
10-07-05, 02:21 PM All my Destroyers (1st level human fighters can have 5 feats to start out with)
Take this one feat - Eyes in the Back of your head

For my snipers I always take

Able Sniper
Bowslinger
Chakram Ricochet (have to see this one for the real beauty)

Another good one would be
wandstrike (but never used it in game)
Deft Strike (love this)

I actually believe that Flick of the wrist is very weak (for these reasons to have it you need Dex 17, Sleight of Hand 5 ranks, +1 BAB, and Quick draw)

It only works if you draw a light weapon and attack in the same round your opponent will be flat-footed for just one attack this combat encounter. Its done as a free action (instead of a move) well if your using a free action to do the drawing your character can't speak.

Now yes there are more feats that can be taken at a higher BAB but I'm listing the ones you can have at 1st lvl

Have fun!!!
Arandar
10-07-05, 04:28 PM 1st level human fighters can have 5 feat to start out with?
1 for starting
1 for fighter
1 for human

Sorry, am I counting wrong?
Ithamar
10-07-05, 04:44 PM He's probably including 2 flaws.
Lalkin
10-07-05, 04:49 PM Bowslinger
Chakram Ricochet (have to see this one for the real beauty)

Which book are these two feats in?
Darth_Azalin
10-08-05, 01:24 AM Which book are these two feats in?

My cheatsheet has bowslinger - FRUD 24 0 so I would guess Forgetton Realms underdark p.24

Bowslinger [General, Fighter]
[FRUD 24] (Forgetton Realms Underdark) You can ready ranged weapons surprisingly quickly.
Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus on your attack roll when you fire or throw a ranged weapon
at a flat-footed opponent.

For the chakram richochet has it as FRCR 17 so I would guess Forgetton Realms Champions of Ruin p17

Chakram Ricochet [General]
[FRCR 17] (Forgetton Realms Champions of Ruin) You can hurl a chakram so that it strikes two enemies instead of one.
Prerequisites: Dex 13, base attack bonus +1, proficient with chakram.
Benefit: If you hit a creature with a thrown chakram, you can cause it to ricochet and
strike a secondary target in an adjacent square (within 5 feet of the primary target). You
immediately make an attack roll against the secondary target, at a -2 penalty. If the attack hits,
you deal damage normally.
Special: A rogue with the Chakram Ricochet can deal sneak attack damage to both targets
if they are within 30 feet and denied their Dexterity bonus to AC.

Able Sniper [General]
[ROW 148] (Races of the Wild) You are accomplished at remaining unseen when you’re sniping with a ranged weapon.
Prerequisites: Dex 13, Hide 5 ranks.
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus on ranged attack rolls with a weapon made against flat-footed
targets that are at least 30 feet away. In addition, you gain a +4 bonus on Hide checks made to
hide again after you have made an attack roll while hiding (see PHB 76).

Chakram is in many books but look in FRCS (Forgotten realms campaign setting p. 97)
Small - Exotic Ranged Weapon
Chakram costs 15 gp damage - 1d4 critcal - x3 range - 30 ft weight - 2 Ib .damage type - Slashing

So lets see how dangerous the Chakram is ...
You take the following feats
Exotic weapon - ranged Chakram
Bowslinger
Chakram Richochet
Able Sniper (since this only really works at the range of 30' take the next feat instead at 1st level)
Improved Initiative

Thats 4 and only the Strongheart Halfling or Human rogue (want the sneak attack ability) can pull this off (take 2 flaws)

If you can attack in the surprise round (pre initiative) your the most deadliest

(since you can't have 2 of the 3 feats we need to have you be 2nd level)
(and for richochet you need to be within 30' and for sniper you need to be at least 30' -- so lets say if they are 30' away both apply if least than 30'
Your opponents are flat-footed
Your BAB is +1
You Gain +4 to hit because of your feats (or +2 if you only have bowslinger)
You add in your strength mod

your +3 to hit first target(+5 with sniper) +1 to hit the second (+3 with sniper) dont forget to add in strength.

Damage is d4+(Strength)+d6(insert sneak attack damage) for both your targets.

You are practically more dangerous than the same 2nd lvl fighter (sometimes)
Darth_Azalin
10-08-05, 02:51 AM Actually to hit you would add your dex bonus and for damage the strength so just put that part in there where I said on the to hit part add strength.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Chernevog 10-05-05, 10:58 AM	I have a thief with a bow. I want to get my sneak attack damage, but I can't flank. Will being behind the target be enough to get the bonus? Can I use a feint with a bow? Will shooting from my hidden position make them flat footed and if I have multiple attacks then will all those also get the bonus? How else can I cause my targets to become flat footed?
DrMorganes 10-05-05, 11:04 AM	Rules of the Game Archive (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/rg). Read all 4 parts of "All About Sneak Attacks". Answers to your questions are found within.
Chernevog 10-05-05, 11:06 AM	I read it... It doesn't say anything about back attacking an opponent, just flanking. if you can't back attack then there is no point in the theif hiding in combat...
Puca 10-05-05, 11:59 AM	You cant "backstab" in this version because (mechnically) there is no back. There are no rules for facing, so no back, so no backstab. I am trying to find the right place so I can quote you the rule, but I havent got it yet. I am 99% sure that if your opponent cant see you, because your hidden of invisible or whatever, then he is denied his Dex versus you for that attack, enabling you to get sneak attack damage when you attack from concealment.
q'afuu 10-05-05, 12:04 PM	if you can't back attack then there is no point in the theif hiding in combat... Hint: when hiding successfully, you're effectively invisible. Also read the rules for sniping under the Hide skill in the PHB.
runestar 10-05-05, 10:31 PM	SA is not backstab. If you can catch your foe flat-footed, perhaps via a successful bluff check, you can SA him, but generally, being behind him won't do the trick, unless he was unaware of your presence, which would make him flat-footed anyways.
Maraxus 10-05-05, 10:43 PM	Hey, what about that: Let's stay I am a rogue with a bow and also improved unarmed strike or a natural weapon or spiked armor. That way I can threaten my opponent and that way flank him. Do I get sneak attack with the bow, too?
Arandar 10-06-05, 03:01 AM	Nope, Sneak Attacks cannot be made with ranged weapons for flanking, as ranged weapons cannot flank.
SwiftFox 10-06-05, 11:39 AM	As stated, you cannot flank a creature with a ranged weapon. Note that there is no 'facing' in D&D's latest incarnation... creatures are assumed to be capable to turning quickly to face any threat, unless (because they are flanked) they cannot face one threat without exposing their back to another, or (because they are flat-footed) they are unaware of that threat. There are a couple of tricks from non-core D&D books that can allow a rogue to get off sneak attacks against opponents they dont flank or catch flat-footed... one such way is via a feat called 'flick of the wrist' from complete warrior... it allows you to catch your opponent flat-footed mid-combat by drawing and making an attack with a light melee weapon, though it is not a trick you can perform with a ranged weapon nor round-after round. You might want to consider the scout base class from complete adventurer : it is very simmilar to a rogue or ranger, except that instead of 'sneak attack' it has an ability called 'skirmish', which does extra D6s of damage against opponents if you moved more than 5ft. that round... excellent for a 'shot on the run' type of character.
Esponer 10-06-05, 12:11 PM	I am trying to find the right place so I can quote you the rule, but I havent got it yet. I am 99% sure that if your opponent cant see you, because your hidden of invisible or whatever, then he is denied his Dex versus you for that attack, enabling you to get sneak attack damage when you attack from concealment. Yep, that's right... I can quote you evidence, but it's some an unusual source of the SRD. While blinking, you take only half damage from area attacks (but full damage from those that extend onto the Ethereal Plane). You strike as an invisible creature (with a +2 bonus on attack rolls), denying your target any Dexterity bonus to AC. - Blink spell So, as an archer, boost your ability to hide, shoot from there, and you get sneak attack. You can also immediately go hidden again after that, at a penalty (see the Hide skill).
Atar 10-06-05, 02:12 PM	Also, you can only sneak attack in the above mentioned ways if you are within 30 ft range of the target.
Grizzled Gryphon 10-06-05, 08:16 PM	Something a lot of people seem to miss, is all characters are considered flat footed until they get to act in the first combat round. Which means, if you have iniative on your target, and you can make 4 attacks against him, then all four attacks are sneak attacks. Or so it seems to me, anyway. I am probably missing something, though. That seems a lttle thick... I am going back and reading all of that again.
Grizzled Gryphon 10-06-05, 08:29 PM	As per page 137 of the PHB, it says, and I quote " Flat -Footed: At the the start of battle, before you have had a chance to act (specifically, before your first regular turn in the initiative order), you are flat- footed. (This fact can be very bad if you are attacked by rogues.)" Nowhere does it say that you are no longer flat-footed because of being attacked, so all of the rogues attacks could be sneak attacks if the rogue so chooses. As far as doing sneak attacks mid combat, bluff and such are your best bet.
Tony Vargas 10-06-05, 09:16 PM	I have a thief with a bow. I want to get my sneak attack damage, but I can't flank. I've also been playing a Rogue with a bow, so I know how you feel... Will being behind the target be enough to get the bonus?No, as other's have pointed out, 3E doesn't have facing. Can I use a feint with a bow? No, it's a melee manuever. What you can do is use Bluff to create a 'distraction,' allowing you to Hide, reposition, and make a new attack from hiding... Will shooting from my hidden position make them flat footed and if I have multiple attacks then will all those also get the bonus? It will deny them thier DEX bonus, but, IIRC, only vs the first attack if they're not flat footed (if they're in combat). How else can I cause my targets to become flat footed? Flat-footed is a condition that exists only at the begining of a combat. You need to deny them thier DEX bonus, which can happen a variety of other ways, as well. One key with a ranged SA rogue is to achieve surprise, this gives you one free attack when you initiate combat. Then, if you win initiative, you get a full attack while the enemy is still flat-footed. My afore-mentioned bow-wielding rogue has a total +11 Init mod, from DEX, Improved Init, and 'Quick Recenoiter (from Complete Adventurer). If you're fully concealed - Invisible (especially greater invisibility, which'll let you make full SAs), hidden, or just in total darkness (if you can see, such as when you have darkvision and your victim doesn't) - your target is denied it's DEX bonus, and you can SA (however, if your victim has any concealment at all, you can't SA). If your target is climbing, balancing, or grappling, he loses his DEX bonus (but shooting into a grapple is dangerous to the other grappler). If your victim is stunned (not dazed), entangled, held or otherwise immobile, he generally loses his DEX bonus, as well, though, in that case, he's often not worth directing attacks at, unless you'll think he'll get free relatively soon. Quite a few spells can thus be used to enable SA: Invisibility or Greater Invisibility or Blink on the rogue. Grease, Hold, Sleep, Web, Entangle, etc, on the victim.
serch 10-06-05, 09:34 PM	And do be carefull with those nasty barbarians out there :D
Grizzled Gryphon 10-06-05, 10:31 PM	Of course, a rogue with Use Magic Device, and a wand of Darkness... Well, that can be fun. Assuming you can see, that is. Make that a wand of Invisibility, and that is even better.
gorfnad the shiznit 10-07-05, 04:47 AM	The Whisperknife prestige class (Races of the Wild) grants you a ranged threat ability, however this is granted at the second to the last level of the class. But, it is an awesome class for a halfling wanting to do some interesting sneak attack tactis. Otherwise, if you want to bluff and feint your way into sneak attacks then look into the Invisible Blade from the Complete Warrior. Fienting in combat as a free action while automatically taking a 10 on the roll is definitely entertaining.
Arandar 10-07-05, 06:36 AM	As per page 137 of the PHB, it says, and I quote " Flat -Footed: At the the start of battle, before you have had a chance to act (specifically, before your first regular turn in the initiative order), you are flat- footed. (This fact can be very bad if you are attacked by rogues.)" Nowhere does it say that you are no longer flat-footed because of being attacked, so all of the rogues attacks could be sneak attacks if the rogue so chooses. As far as doing sneak attacks mid combat, bluff and such are your best bet. I do believe this only accounts for situations where one part is surprised, or neither knows about the other part. I doubt anyone is flat-footed if they're standing on a field looking at eachother, and one part charges.
arbanafal 10-07-05, 07:04 AM	No, it applies to the first round of combat too. The surprise round is a bonus. The rules clearly state: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#flatFooted "A character who has not yet acted during a combat is flat-footed, not yet reacting normally to the situation. A flat-footed character loses his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) and cannot make attacks of opportunity." I understand that some DM's may houserule this, but it is in the RAW. Plus, how often will it come up in combat. Once in the first round, and the possiblity of either a move OR an attack action in the surprise round are the only moments in combat that someone will be flat-footed. New enemies entering combat are never flat-footed, they enter at the highest initiative order.
MJ the Prophet 10-07-05, 07:06 AM	I was beat to it, but yes, until you act in the first round of combat, you are considered flat-footed.
Thubby 10-07-05, 12:46 PM	1, you can stay hidden during combat 2, you can shoot and hide, at a -10, very good for you, its on the book, just dont know where, sorry 3, all attacks you make while someone is flatfooted are sneak attacks, so if you got six attacks, and they were flatfooted, their all sneak attacks (its lots of fun, try out a thrikreen rogue with multiattack) and 4 stair deeply into my signerature, you are getting sleepy
Darth_Azalin 10-07-05, 02:21 PM	All my Destroyers (1st level human fighters can have 5 feats to start out with) Take this one feat - Eyes in the Back of your head For my snipers I always take Able Sniper Bowslinger Chakram Ricochet (have to see this one for the real beauty) Another good one would be wandstrike (but never used it in game) Deft Strike (love this) I actually believe that Flick of the wrist is very weak (for these reasons to have it you need Dex 17, Sleight of Hand 5 ranks, +1 BAB, and Quick draw) It only works if you draw a light weapon and attack in the same round your opponent will be flat-footed for just one attack this combat encounter. Its done as a free action (instead of a move) well if your using a free action to do the drawing your character can't speak. Now yes there are more feats that can be taken at a higher BAB but I'm listing the ones you can have at 1st lvl Have fun!!!
Arandar 10-07-05, 04:28 PM	1st level human fighters can have 5 feat to start out with? 1 for starting 1 for fighter 1 for human Sorry, am I counting wrong?
Ithamar 10-07-05, 04:44 PM	He's probably including 2 flaws.
Lalkin 10-07-05, 04:49 PM	Bowslinger Chakram Ricochet (have to see this one for the real beauty) Which book are these two feats in?
Darth_Azalin 10-08-05, 01:24 AM	Which book are these two feats in? My cheatsheet has bowslinger - FRUD 24 0 so I would guess Forgetton Realms underdark p.24 Bowslinger [General, Fighter] [FRUD 24] (Forgetton Realms Underdark) You can ready ranged weapons surprisingly quickly. Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +1. Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus on your attack roll when you fire or throw a ranged weapon at a flat-footed opponent. For the chakram richochet has it as FRCR 17 so I would guess Forgetton Realms Champions of Ruin p17 Chakram Ricochet [General] [FRCR 17] (Forgetton Realms Champions of Ruin) You can hurl a chakram so that it strikes two enemies instead of one. Prerequisites: Dex 13, base attack bonus +1, proficient with chakram. Benefit: If you hit a creature with a thrown chakram, you can cause it to ricochet and strike a secondary target in an adjacent square (within 5 feet of the primary target). You immediately make an attack roll against the secondary target, at a -2 penalty. If the attack hits, you deal damage normally. Special: A rogue with the Chakram Ricochet can deal sneak attack damage to both targets if they are within 30 feet and denied their Dexterity bonus to AC. Able Sniper [General] [ROW 148] (Races of the Wild) You are accomplished at remaining unseen when you’re sniping with a ranged weapon. Prerequisites: Dex 13, Hide 5 ranks. Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus on ranged attack rolls with a weapon made against flat-footed targets that are at least 30 feet away. In addition, you gain a +4 bonus on Hide checks made to hide again after you have made an attack roll while hiding (see PHB 76). Chakram is in many books but look in FRCS (Forgotten realms campaign setting p. 97) Small - Exotic Ranged Weapon Chakram costs 15 gp damage - 1d4 critcal - x3 range - 30 ft weight - 2 Ib .damage type - Slashing So lets see how dangerous the Chakram is ... You take the following feats Exotic weapon - ranged Chakram Bowslinger Chakram Richochet Able Sniper (since this only really works at the range of 30' take the next feat instead at 1st level) Improved Initiative Thats 4 and only the Strongheart Halfling or Human rogue (want the sneak attack ability) can pull this off (take 2 flaws) If you can attack in the surprise round (pre initiative) your the most deadliest (since you can't have 2 of the 3 feats we need to have you be 2nd level) (and for richochet you need to be within 30' and for sniper you need to be at least 30' -- so lets say if they are 30' away both apply if least than 30' Your opponents are flat-footed Your BAB is +1 You Gain +4 to hit because of your feats (or +2 if you only have bowslinger) You add in your strength mod your +3 to hit first target(+5 with sniper) +1 to hit the second (+3 with sniper) dont forget to add in strength. Damage is d4+(Strength)+d6(insert sneak attack damage) for both your targets. You are practically more dangerous than the same 2nd lvl fighter (sometimes)
Darth_Azalin 10-08-05, 02:51 AM	Actually to hit you would add your dex bonus and for damage the strength so just put that part in there where I said on the to hit part add strength.