Backstabbing [Archive] - Wizards Community

Backstabbing [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
elementar2k6
09-03-06, 06:18 PM i am new to the game and i'm sure this has been covered before, so please just humor me. i have a player that wants to know if he can Sneak attack with a Two-handed weapon if he catches someone flatfooted or out bluffs them. i thought that sneakattacking had to be done with a light weapon. could someone please clarify this for me and my players. thanks in advance
pawsplay
09-03-06, 06:21 PM You mean sneak attack? Sure!
hiryuu
09-03-06, 06:22 PM Anyone with sneak attack can use the ability with any weapon they are proficient with.
elementar2k6
09-03-06, 06:28 PM thanks for the clarification
Milo HoBo
09-03-06, 06:30 PM The way you out bluff someone can be found under the skills section for bluff. It's called Feint and takes a standard action, however, there is a feat that lets you do it in a move action.

Just to let you know, flanking is much easier.
a_m0ogle
09-04-06, 01:23 AM i am new to the game and i'm sure this has been covered before, so please just humor me. i have a player that wants to know if he can Sneak attack with a Two-handed weapon if he catches someone flatfooted or out bluffs them. i thought that sneakattacking had to be done with a light weapon. could someone please clarify this for me and my players. thanks in advance
Yep, a halfling rogue with monkey grip using a medium sized fullblade can sneak attack all he wants :P
Geisterkrieger
09-05-06, 12:57 PM My player's are only allowed to sneak attack with weapons up to medium-size or large-sized piercing weapons.
Salla
09-05-06, 01:11 PM My player's are only allowed to sneak attack with weapons up to medium-size or large-sized piercing weapons.

Wow ... kind of a harsh houserule.
HaikenEdge
09-05-06, 01:18 PM My player's are only allowed to sneak attack with weapons up to medium-size or large-sized piercing weapons.
So, if I stepped up behind an unaware person and clocked him over the head with a steel pipe, it's not a sneak attack?
Arvagor
09-05-06, 01:59 PM So, if I stepped up behind an unaware person and clocked him over the head with a steel pipe, it's not a sneak attack?Yes, it is. IMO, the previous poster (hiryuu) was incorrect. According to the FAQ (v.8/16/06, page 14), a rogue can make a sneak attack with a weapon in which he is not proficient. He may have been confusing that with the fact that you can't deal sneak attack damage if you're trying to deal non-lethal damage while using a weapon that normally deals lethal...

When you aren't proficient with a weapon, you have difficulty using it well, but you aren't deliberately using it in a less than optimal manner (as you are when trying to deal nonlethal damage with a lethal weapon).
Rerednaw
09-05-06, 03:20 PM Yes you can sneak attack with:

A simple weapon, a martial weapon, an exotic weapon, an improvised weapon, alchemist's fire, acid, scorching ray, cause light wounds etc. as long you have the sneak attack class ability and your target is subject to sneak attack (i.e. not immune to critical hits or such like undead or constructs, etc.)
Millennium
09-05-06, 03:40 PM The only restrictions on Sneak Attack with weapons is that you can't deal nonlethal damage except with a sap or unarmed strike, and you can't Sneak Attack with a ranged weapon if you're more than 30' away. Other than that, you can Sneak Attack with any weapon you want. Technically you don't even have to be proficient with the weapon you're Sneak Attacking with.
Geisterkrieger
09-05-06, 05:52 PM So, if I stepped up behind an unaware person and clocked him over the head with a steel pipe, it's not a sneak attack?

It depends on the fact of the size of the steelpipe.
if it's small or medium I gonna allow you to sneak attack.
lol

no , seriously. I prefer a mix of the old 2e backstabbing ability and the new sneak attack ability. I don't find a guy clad in armor with a greatsword isn't that sneaky and the advantage of two-handed weapons is the 1.5 Str-Bonus to damage. A sneak attack isn't an attack that deals damage through pure force, it's more the precision that makes that kind of attack dangerous, but anyways it's just a houserule and I play my campaign more realistic than traditional.
Armour as an example grants DR in my campaign and my players use some kind of an active parry as a defense option.
Drakenstein
09-05-06, 07:21 PM [QUOTE=Geisterkrieger]It depends on the fact of the size of the steelpipe.
if it's small or medium I gonna allow you to sneak attack.
lol

I don't find a guy clad in armor with a greatsword isn't that sneakyQUOTE]

je can be sneaky he just needs either boots of elven kind or a globe of silence spell whatever u call it:P
Drakenstein
09-05-06, 07:35 PM [QUOTE=Geisterkrieger]It depends on the fact of the size of the steelpipe.
if it's small or medium I gonna allow you to sneak attack.
lol

I don't find a guy clad in armor with a greatsword isn't that sneakyQUOTE]

je can be sneaky he just needs either boots of elven kind or a globe of silence spell whatever u call it:P
Salla
09-05-06, 09:49 PM [QUOTE=Geisterkrieger]It depends on the fact of the size of the steelpipe.
if it's small or medium I gonna allow you to sneak attack.
lol

I don't find a guy clad in armor with a greatsword isn't that sneakyQUOTE]

je can be sneaky he just needs either boots of elven kind or a globe of silence spell whatever u call it:P

Or ... just a whole lot of ranks in Hide and Move Silently to cover the armor check penalty.
Yak of Darkness
09-05-06, 09:56 PM Or, y'know, he doesn't need to be sneaky at all.

Maybe our guy won initiative and smacked the target with a pipe before he could react (sneak attack!).

Maybe he's flanking with someone else, hitting the bad guy where it hurts when he can't properly defend himself (sneak attack!).

Maybe he feinted, throwing the target off balance, before giving him a big ol' wallop with a pipe (sneak attack!).

If you think you have to be actively sneaking around to use the Sneak Attack special ability, then you didn't read the text of the ability beyond the name. :P
Polaris
09-06-06, 02:41 AM The only restrictions on Sneak Attack with weapons is that you can't deal nonlethal damage except with a sap or unarmed strike, and you can't Sneak Attack with a ranged weapon if you're more than 30' away. Other than that, you can Sneak Attack with any weapon you want. Technically you don't even have to be proficient with the weapon you're Sneak Attacking with.

There is one more exception. You can't sneak-attack with an attack that doesn't require a to-hit roll (i.e. Magic Missile or AoE spells). You can sneak-attack with spells that DO require an attack roll (even a ranged touch attack).

-Polaris

Edit Addendum: One more restriction: The target can not have any concealment.
Geisterkrieger
09-06-06, 05:56 AM If you think you have to be actively sneaking around to use the Sneak Attack special ability, then you didn't read the text of the ability beyond the name. :P

Sure I did, but as I mentioned 'IT'S JUST A HOUSERULE', maybe you should open your eyes before forcing someone by not reading a text right.

The clad in heavy armour thing was more ment that he cannot sneak around, but it's not as sneaky as the guy in leatheramour.

I prefer to play fighter / rogue multiclassing characters, but I also like to see them in light armor, because they don't loose their evasion ability in light armour.
Yak of Darkness
09-06-06, 07:03 AM Sure I did, but as I mentioned 'IT'S JUST A HOUSERULE', maybe you should open your eyes before forcing someone by not reading a text right.I'd feel bad about taking your point wrong if I were responding to you specifically (and not the general trend of "here's way X to be sneaky" in the thread as a whole), as it stands, instead I feel a little hungry.

The clad in heavy armour thing was more ment that he cannot sneak around, but it's not as sneaky as the guy in leatheramour.

I prefer to play fighter / rogue multiclassing characters, but I also like to see them in light armor, because they don't loose their evasion ability in light armour.Not sure what any of this has to do with the Sneak Attack ability, your weapon-size houserule, or anything else, but you're definitely selling it. Rock on, man. :thumbsup:
Milo HoBo
09-06-06, 10:04 AM ...Edit Addendum: One more restriction: The target can not have any concealment.There is an exception to this.

You can get SA on a coup de grace. As long as they remain helpless, it doesn't matter if they have concealment. You spend two rounds after determining the space they are in. One round to locate the vitals, one round to coup de grace.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
elementar2k6 09-03-06, 06:18 PM	i am new to the game and i'm sure this has been covered before, so please just humor me. i have a player that wants to know if he can Sneak attack with a Two-handed weapon if he catches someone flatfooted or out bluffs them. i thought that sneakattacking had to be done with a light weapon. could someone please clarify this for me and my players. thanks in advance
pawsplay 09-03-06, 06:21 PM	You mean sneak attack? Sure!
hiryuu 09-03-06, 06:22 PM	Anyone with sneak attack can use the ability with any weapon they are proficient with.
elementar2k6 09-03-06, 06:28 PM	thanks for the clarification
Milo HoBo 09-03-06, 06:30 PM	The way you out bluff someone can be found under the skills section for bluff. It's called Feint and takes a standard action, however, there is a feat that lets you do it in a move action. Just to let you know, flanking is much easier.
a_m0ogle 09-04-06, 01:23 AM	i am new to the game and i'm sure this has been covered before, so please just humor me. i have a player that wants to know if he can Sneak attack with a Two-handed weapon if he catches someone flatfooted or out bluffs them. i thought that sneakattacking had to be done with a light weapon. could someone please clarify this for me and my players. thanks in advance Yep, a halfling rogue with monkey grip using a medium sized fullblade can sneak attack all he wants :P
Geisterkrieger 09-05-06, 12:57 PM	My player's are only allowed to sneak attack with weapons up to medium-size or large-sized piercing weapons.
Salla 09-05-06, 01:11 PM	My player's are only allowed to sneak attack with weapons up to medium-size or large-sized piercing weapons. Wow ... kind of a harsh houserule.
HaikenEdge 09-05-06, 01:18 PM	My player's are only allowed to sneak attack with weapons up to medium-size or large-sized piercing weapons. So, if I stepped up behind an unaware person and clocked him over the head with a steel pipe, it's not a sneak attack?
Arvagor 09-05-06, 01:59 PM	So, if I stepped up behind an unaware person and clocked him over the head with a steel pipe, it's not a sneak attack?Yes, it is. IMO, the previous poster (hiryuu) was incorrect. According to the FAQ (v.8/16/06, page 14), a rogue can make a sneak attack with a weapon in which he is not proficient. He may have been confusing that with the fact that you can't deal sneak attack damage if you're trying to deal non-lethal damage while using a weapon that normally deals lethal... When you aren't proficient with a weapon, you have difficulty using it well, but you aren't deliberately using it in a less than optimal manner (as you are when trying to deal nonlethal damage with a lethal weapon).
Rerednaw 09-05-06, 03:20 PM	Yes you can sneak attack with: A simple weapon, a martial weapon, an exotic weapon, an improvised weapon, alchemist's fire, acid, scorching ray, cause light wounds etc. as long you have the sneak attack class ability and your target is subject to sneak attack (i.e. not immune to critical hits or such like undead or constructs, etc.)
Millennium 09-05-06, 03:40 PM	The only restrictions on Sneak Attack with weapons is that you can't deal nonlethal damage except with a sap or unarmed strike, and you can't Sneak Attack with a ranged weapon if you're more than 30' away. Other than that, you can Sneak Attack with any weapon you want. Technically you don't even have to be proficient with the weapon you're Sneak Attacking with.
Geisterkrieger 09-05-06, 05:52 PM	So, if I stepped up behind an unaware person and clocked him over the head with a steel pipe, it's not a sneak attack? It depends on the fact of the size of the steelpipe. if it's small or medium I gonna allow you to sneak attack. lol no , seriously. I prefer a mix of the old 2e backstabbing ability and the new sneak attack ability. I don't find a guy clad in armor with a greatsword isn't that sneaky and the advantage of two-handed weapons is the 1.5 Str-Bonus to damage. A sneak attack isn't an attack that deals damage through pure force, it's more the precision that makes that kind of attack dangerous, but anyways it's just a houserule and I play my campaign more realistic than traditional. Armour as an example grants DR in my campaign and my players use some kind of an active parry as a defense option.
Drakenstein 09-05-06, 07:21 PM	[QUOTE=Geisterkrieger]It depends on the fact of the size of the steelpipe. if it's small or medium I gonna allow you to sneak attack. lol I don't find a guy clad in armor with a greatsword isn't that sneakyQUOTE] je can be sneaky he just needs either boots of elven kind or a globe of silence spell whatever u call it:P
Drakenstein 09-05-06, 07:35 PM	[QUOTE=Geisterkrieger]It depends on the fact of the size of the steelpipe. if it's small or medium I gonna allow you to sneak attack. lol I don't find a guy clad in armor with a greatsword isn't that sneakyQUOTE] je can be sneaky he just needs either boots of elven kind or a globe of silence spell whatever u call it:P
Salla 09-05-06, 09:49 PM	[QUOTE=Geisterkrieger]It depends on the fact of the size of the steelpipe. if it's small or medium I gonna allow you to sneak attack. lol I don't find a guy clad in armor with a greatsword isn't that sneakyQUOTE] je can be sneaky he just needs either boots of elven kind or a globe of silence spell whatever u call it:P Or ... just a whole lot of ranks in Hide and Move Silently to cover the armor check penalty.
Yak of Darkness 09-05-06, 09:56 PM	Or, y'know, he doesn't need to be sneaky at all. Maybe our guy won initiative and smacked the target with a pipe before he could react (sneak attack!). Maybe he's flanking with someone else, hitting the bad guy where it hurts when he can't properly defend himself (sneak attack!). Maybe he feinted, throwing the target off balance, before giving him a big ol' wallop with a pipe (sneak attack!). If you think you have to be actively sneaking around to use the Sneak Attack special ability, then you didn't read the text of the ability beyond the name. :P
Polaris 09-06-06, 02:41 AM	The only restrictions on Sneak Attack with weapons is that you can't deal nonlethal damage except with a sap or unarmed strike, and you can't Sneak Attack with a ranged weapon if you're more than 30' away. Other than that, you can Sneak Attack with any weapon you want. Technically you don't even have to be proficient with the weapon you're Sneak Attacking with. There is one more exception. You can't sneak-attack with an attack that doesn't require a to-hit roll (i.e. Magic Missile or AoE spells). You can sneak-attack with spells that DO require an attack roll (even a ranged touch attack). -Polaris Edit Addendum: One more restriction: The target can not have any concealment.
Geisterkrieger 09-06-06, 05:56 AM	If you think you have to be actively sneaking around to use the Sneak Attack special ability, then you didn't read the text of the ability beyond the name. :P Sure I did, but as I mentioned 'IT'S JUST A HOUSERULE', maybe you should open your eyes before forcing someone by not reading a text right. The clad in heavy armour thing was more ment that he cannot sneak around, but it's not as sneaky as the guy in leatheramour. I prefer to play fighter / rogue multiclassing characters, but I also like to see them in light armor, because they don't loose their evasion ability in light armour.
Yak of Darkness 09-06-06, 07:03 AM	Sure I did, but as I mentioned 'IT'S JUST A HOUSERULE', maybe you should open your eyes before forcing someone by not reading a text right.I'd feel bad about taking your point wrong if I were responding to you specifically (and not the general trend of "here's way X to be sneaky" in the thread as a whole), as it stands, instead I feel a little hungry. The clad in heavy armour thing was more ment that he cannot sneak around, but it's not as sneaky as the guy in leatheramour. I prefer to play fighter / rogue multiclassing characters, but I also like to see them in light armor, because they don't loose their evasion ability in light armour.Not sure what any of this has to do with the Sneak Attack ability, your weapon-size houserule, or anything else, but you're definitely selling it. Rock on, man. :thumbsup:
Milo HoBo 09-06-06, 10:04 AM	...Edit Addendum: One more restriction: The target can not have any concealment.There is an exception to this. You can get SA on a coup de grace. As long as they remain helpless, it doesn't matter if they have concealment. You spend two rounds after determining the space they are in. One round to locate the vitals, one round to coup de grace.