balanced ? [Archive] - Wizards Community - Pages Merged by Solauren

balanced ? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
atomisk9455
10-15-07, 09:09 PM if i switch FOB for animal conpanion is it balanced?:confused:
rampant
10-15-07, 09:16 PM What is FOB? What Class is it?
vorpo
10-15-07, 09:16 PM FOB = ?
atomisk9455
10-15-07, 09:26 PM flurry of blows
vorpo
10-15-07, 09:29 PM I think so more or less. If I were DM, I'd allow it I guess.
atomisk9455
10-15-07, 09:35 PM ranger or sorceror?
rampant
10-15-07, 09:44 PM What? Flurry of blows is a Monk ability, Animal Companion is a Ranger/druid ability. Now I can see where it might be a good ability for a nature themed monk varient (be sure to alter the skill list a tad), But I think either you need to drop more than just flurry of blows, or take the ranger form of the ability with half-progression compared to a druid.
Ixmof
10-15-07, 09:51 PM I would say it is balanced, but furry of blows is one of the monks signature moves and it would be a shame to remove it.
Here are some other variants, just to give you an idea of what wizards thinks is balanced:

http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/variantClasses.htm
(http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/variantClasses.htm)
atomisk9455
10-15-07, 09:59 PM ive seen the varieants dut i want a feret for my pet :plotting: :evillaugh
vorpo
10-15-07, 10:02 PM ive seen the varieants dut i want a feret for my pet :plotting: :evillaugh

Or you can just take the Obtain Familiar feat. It will stay a 1 HD ferret forever tho, unless you take some spellcasting classes (not those with "+1 to spellcasting")
atomisk9455
10-15-07, 10:08 PM what book?
atomisk9455
10-15-07, 10:15 PM monks are not casters
IRememberCecil
10-15-07, 10:22 PM if i switch FOB for animal conpanion is it balanced?:confused:
No. Flurry of Blows sucks and has no synergy whatsoever with any of the Monk's other class features. Animal Companion gives you a free fighter.

Oh wait, that might actually make the Monk not suck.

I think I just contradicted myself.
rampant
10-16-07, 12:35 AM Wild cohort, equires survival or know(nature), look it up on the Main dnd site it gives you an animal companion at a reduced level but it should give you that ferret.
Dyax
10-16-07, 02:59 AM No. Flurry of Blows sucks and has no synergy whatsoever with any of the Monk's other class features. Animal Companion gives you a free fighter.

Oh wait, that might actually make the Monk not suck.

I think I just contradicted myself.

If all you want is a free fighter just take the leadership feat.

By the way flurry of blows does not suck,its one of the monks best assest.

But i dont wanna argue about it.
IRememberCecil
10-16-07, 06:32 AM By the way flurry of blows does not suck,its one of the monks best assest.
Yet it doesn't synergize with anything the Monk has, not even his BAB (until level 9). And even then, his Attack bonus won't be high enough to hit with most of his attacks.
But i dont wanna argue about it.
In other words, "I disagree, and I'm not listening to your counterpoints, so nyeh!"?

Or is it another case of "Because I say so."?

Or maybe something else?
Tempest Stormwind
10-16-07, 10:37 AM If all you want's a pet, just buy the animal. An "Animal Companion" is not a pet; it's a natural beast that accompanies you.

If you want to be a monk-like character that doesn't suck AND has an animal companion, take a look at the Shaman in Oriental Adventures. It's 3e but requires very few non-spell changes to fit in 3.5 -- coincidentally, one is to use the 3.5 flurry of blows progression, and the other is to gain an animal companion as a druid.
AAB
10-16-07, 11:23 AM If all you want's a pet, just buy the animal. An "Animal Companion" is not a pet; it's a natural beast that accompanies you.

If you want to be a monk-like character that doesn't suck AND has an animal companion, take a look at the Shaman in Oriental Adventures. It's 3e but requires very few non-spell changes to fit in 3.5 -- coincidentally, one is to use the 3.5 flurry of blows progression, and the other is to gain an animal companion as a druid.

I think the "official" update for the shaman does not give flurry of blows - just increased unarmed damage. And unfortunately it does not mention the animal companion at all, leaving us with the horrible 3E description. Looks like a druid's, though.
atomisk9455
10-18-07, 05:36 PM :bump:
vorpo
10-18-07, 05:49 PM :bump:

I thought bumping this thread more won't help any more. Since at least half of us who responded think it's a balanced trade (regardless of the flavor involved). There will never be an unanimous (sp) decision. You can just trade it like you said you want to and start playing.
blade265
10-21-07, 09:20 AM IRememberCecil, Furry of blows is the best of the monks weapon and what u say about furry of blows maybe true but to remove it for a ferret. :OMG!
Tempest Stormwind
10-21-07, 01:14 PM I think the "official" update for the shaman does not give flurry of blows - just increased unarmed damage. And unfortunately it does not mention the animal companion at all, leaving us with the horrible 3E description. Looks like a druid's, though.

The only "official" update to OA is in Dragon. You're right in that it doesn't mention Flurry (my mistake). Interestingly enough, though, these updates point out *specific changes*, and leave the rest alone. The shaman got an animal companion at level 1 in 3e; thus, in 3.5 it would get an animal companion at level 1 as well.

Mind you, with the animal companion and its spell list, I'd doubt that he'd need Flurry (although he does get a few martial arts bonus feats).

Blade, you're dead wrong. The monk's best weapons are his spell resistance, his good saves, and speed. That's not saying much since low-level spells can grant you those.

Flurry of Blows turns into Flurry of Misses more often than not, and since it requires the monk to hold still, it denies him the use of his speed and several other abilities. If you're looking for lots of attacks, flurry isn't the way to go -- it's just the easiest, sort of like how driving a duct-tape-and-prayer beater car is still technically driving.
blade265
10-22-07, 01:22 AM Sorry. to me a weapon is something that u attack with, u can't attack with spell resistance, good saves or speed, ok. My point is, why get rid of it for a ferret maybe a wolf, a badger or 1 of the big cats but a ferret. :confused:
Lokathor
10-22-07, 02:44 AM Well, no one was seriously suggesting that a monk who had swapped out Flurry of Blows for Animal Companion would keep it as a ferret for all 20 levels.

However, if you really want a super ferret, you can take a feat to get it. You don't even have to switch out any of your class abilities.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a
blade265
10-22-07, 03:15 AM Sorry. to me a weapon is something that u attack with, u can't attack with spell resistance, good saves or speed, ok. My point is, why get rid of it for a ferret maybe a wolf, a badger or 1 of the big cats but a ferret. :confused:
atomisk9455
11-02-07, 05:01 PM i found feat http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Animal_Friends,all
Dionon
11-02-07, 05:08 PM Go with the Animal Cohort feat man, trust me it'll work better in the long run... Getting 2hd worth of animals may be a kool idea, but unless you expect to be Ferret-Man, it's inconsistant with what you originally said.
Tempest Stormwind
11-02-07, 06:34 PM i found feat http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Animal_Friends,all

It's also 3e. Note that the Animal Friendship spell doesn't exist in 3.5 -- it was the mechanism by which a 3e druid (and ranger, and, as noted in this thread, the OA shaman) gained his animal companion. You could cast it over and over and target a larger number of animals up to a limit of your caster level in total HD (exception: CL1 granted 2HD, allowing for wolves at level 1), or double this limit if you didn't move around much (i.e. if you weren't an adventuring druid). If you went for more than one animal, though, they tended to be weak (a level 8 druid with a flock of eagles surrounding him loses his entire fleet to a single Fireball spell, for instance, while the birds could do nothing except Aid Another realistically because enemies were too strong).

Like everything in 3e, though, there were exceptions: There was a Tamer of Beasts PrC based around having a PILE of animal companions. The 3.5 conversion, with its stronger companions, is the Beastmaster PrC in Complete Adventurer.

Wild Cohort or the OA shaman remain your best options.
AAB
11-03-07, 03:26 AM As an aside, I never really thought much of the OA Shaman before now. But since I've looked at it recently it looks like it would be a spectacularly fun class to play. My votes on the Shaman.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
atomisk9455 10-15-07, 09:09 PM	if i switch FOB for animal conpanion is it balanced?:confused:
rampant 10-15-07, 09:16 PM	What is FOB? What Class is it?
vorpo 10-15-07, 09:16 PM	FOB = ?
atomisk9455 10-15-07, 09:26 PM	flurry of blows
vorpo 10-15-07, 09:29 PM	I think so more or less. If I were DM, I'd allow it I guess.
atomisk9455 10-15-07, 09:35 PM	ranger or sorceror?
rampant 10-15-07, 09:44 PM	What? Flurry of blows is a Monk ability, Animal Companion is a Ranger/druid ability. Now I can see where it might be a good ability for a nature themed monk varient (be sure to alter the skill list a tad), But I think either you need to drop more than just flurry of blows, or take the ranger form of the ability with half-progression compared to a druid.
Ixmof 10-15-07, 09:51 PM	I would say it is balanced, but furry of blows is one of the monks signature moves and it would be a shame to remove it. Here are some other variants, just to give you an idea of what wizards thinks is balanced: http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/variantClasses.htm (http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/variantClasses.htm)
atomisk9455 10-15-07, 09:59 PM	ive seen the varieants dut i want a feret for my pet :plotting: :evillaugh
vorpo 10-15-07, 10:02 PM	ive seen the varieants dut i want a feret for my pet :plotting: :evillaugh Or you can just take the Obtain Familiar feat. It will stay a 1 HD ferret forever tho, unless you take some spellcasting classes (not those with "+1 to spellcasting")
atomisk9455 10-15-07, 10:08 PM	what book?
atomisk9455 10-15-07, 10:15 PM	monks are not casters
IRememberCecil 10-15-07, 10:22 PM	if i switch FOB for animal conpanion is it balanced?:confused: No. Flurry of Blows sucks and has no synergy whatsoever with any of the Monk's other class features. Animal Companion gives you a free fighter. Oh wait, that might actually make the Monk not suck. I think I just contradicted myself.
rampant 10-16-07, 12:35 AM	Wild cohort, equires survival or know(nature), look it up on the Main dnd site it gives you an animal companion at a reduced level but it should give you that ferret.
Dyax 10-16-07, 02:59 AM	No. Flurry of Blows sucks and has no synergy whatsoever with any of the Monk's other class features. Animal Companion gives you a free fighter. Oh wait, that might actually make the Monk not suck. I think I just contradicted myself. If all you want is a free fighter just take the leadership feat. By the way flurry of blows does not suck,its one of the monks best assest. But i dont wanna argue about it.
IRememberCecil 10-16-07, 06:32 AM	By the way flurry of blows does not suck,its one of the monks best assest. Yet it doesn't synergize with anything the Monk has, not even his BAB (until level 9). And even then, his Attack bonus won't be high enough to hit with most of his attacks. But i dont wanna argue about it. In other words, "I disagree, and I'm not listening to your counterpoints, so nyeh!"? Or is it another case of "Because I say so."? Or maybe something else?
Tempest Stormwind 10-16-07, 10:37 AM	If all you want's a pet, just buy the animal. An "Animal Companion" is not a pet; it's a natural beast that accompanies you. If you want to be a monk-like character that doesn't suck AND has an animal companion, take a look at the Shaman in Oriental Adventures. It's 3e but requires very few non-spell changes to fit in 3.5 -- coincidentally, one is to use the 3.5 flurry of blows progression, and the other is to gain an animal companion as a druid.
AAB 10-16-07, 11:23 AM	If all you want's a pet, just buy the animal. An "Animal Companion" is not a pet; it's a natural beast that accompanies you. If you want to be a monk-like character that doesn't suck AND has an animal companion, take a look at the Shaman in Oriental Adventures. It's 3e but requires very few non-spell changes to fit in 3.5 -- coincidentally, one is to use the 3.5 flurry of blows progression, and the other is to gain an animal companion as a druid. I think the "official" update for the shaman does not give flurry of blows - just increased unarmed damage. And unfortunately it does not mention the animal companion at all, leaving us with the horrible 3E description. Looks like a druid's, though.
atomisk9455 10-18-07, 05:36 PM	:bump:
vorpo 10-18-07, 05:49 PM	:bump: I thought bumping this thread more won't help any more. Since at least half of us who responded think it's a balanced trade (regardless of the flavor involved). There will never be an unanimous (sp) decision. You can just trade it like you said you want to and start playing.
blade265 10-21-07, 09:20 AM	IRememberCecil, Furry of blows is the best of the monks weapon and what u say about furry of blows maybe true but to remove it for a ferret. :OMG!
Tempest Stormwind 10-21-07, 01:14 PM	I think the "official" update for the shaman does not give flurry of blows - just increased unarmed damage. And unfortunately it does not mention the animal companion at all, leaving us with the horrible 3E description. Looks like a druid's, though. The only "official" update to OA is in Dragon. You're right in that it doesn't mention Flurry (my mistake). Interestingly enough, though, these updates point out specific changes, and leave the rest alone. The shaman got an animal companion at level 1 in 3e; thus, in 3.5 it would get an animal companion at level 1 as well. Mind you, with the animal companion and its spell list, I'd doubt that he'd need Flurry (although he does get a few martial arts bonus feats). Blade, you're dead wrong. The monk's best weapons are his spell resistance, his good saves, and speed. That's not saying much since low-level spells can grant you those. Flurry of Blows turns into Flurry of Misses more often than not, and since it requires the monk to hold still, it denies him the use of his speed and several other abilities. If you're looking for lots of attacks, flurry isn't the way to go -- it's just the easiest, sort of like how driving a duct-tape-and-prayer beater car is still technically driving.
blade265 10-22-07, 01:22 AM	Sorry. to me a weapon is something that u attack with, u can't attack with spell resistance, good saves or speed, ok. My point is, why get rid of it for a ferret maybe a wolf, a badger or 1 of the big cats but a ferret. :confused:
Lokathor 10-22-07, 02:44 AM	Well, no one was seriously suggesting that a monk who had swapped out Flurry of Blows for Animal Companion would keep it as a ferret for all 20 levels. However, if you really want a super ferret, you can take a feat to get it. You don't even have to switch out any of your class abilities. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a
blade265 10-22-07, 03:15 AM	Sorry. to me a weapon is something that u attack with, u can't attack with spell resistance, good saves or speed, ok. My point is, why get rid of it for a ferret maybe a wolf, a badger or 1 of the big cats but a ferret. :confused:
atomisk9455 11-02-07, 05:01 PM	i found feat http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Animal_Friends,all
Dionon 11-02-07, 05:08 PM	Go with the Animal Cohort feat man, trust me it'll work better in the long run... Getting 2hd worth of animals may be a kool idea, but unless you expect to be Ferret-Man, it's inconsistant with what you originally said.
Tempest Stormwind 11-02-07, 06:34 PM	i found feat http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Animal_Friends,all It's also 3e. Note that the Animal Friendship spell doesn't exist in 3.5 -- it was the mechanism by which a 3e druid (and ranger, and, as noted in this thread, the OA shaman) gained his animal companion. You could cast it over and over and target a larger number of animals up to a limit of your caster level in total HD (exception: CL1 granted 2HD, allowing for wolves at level 1), or double this limit if you didn't move around much (i.e. if you weren't an adventuring druid). If you went for more than one animal, though, they tended to be weak (a level 8 druid with a flock of eagles surrounding him loses his entire fleet to a single Fireball spell, for instance, while the birds could do nothing except Aid Another realistically because enemies were too strong). Like everything in 3e, though, there were exceptions: There was a Tamer of Beasts PrC based around having a PILE of animal companions. The 3.5 conversion, with its stronger companions, is the Beastmaster PrC in Complete Adventurer. Wild Cohort or the OA shaman remain your best options.
AAB 11-03-07, 03:26 AM	As an aside, I never really thought much of the OA Shaman before now. But since I've looked at it recently it looks like it would be a spectacularly fun class to play. My votes on the Shaman.