Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sensei Gith 12-19-03, 04:32 PM	I'm trying to make a balanced Expert class, suitable for PC's or NPC's. It would replace the commoner and expert entirely, and possibly the Aristocrat. You should be able to have a balanced Exp20 as a valuable party member, but also an Exp0 working on a farm somewhere. The question: how to do it? Probably 10 skill points per level. Any skill is a class skill. Skill Focus should be given liberally. Skill Mastery could follow at higher levels. Maybe some sort of extraordinary focus ability could be included, like +1/level to three related skills. d6 HD. Probably 3/4 BAB. What other abilities could it have to round it out and make it a viable class choice in the right campaign? I've always thought it extremely dumb to have NPC classes that were just like PC classes, but worse. The apprentice level system was a good idea; a fighter0 could replace a warrior1, for example. But why would an average person (commoner) be in every way inferior to another average person doing a similar thing (expert) at the same level? Commoner has no point. The average person would be an Expert0, assuming that they were basically commoners. The 0th level of Expert should: -be the same power as a level of an existing NPC class. -have less skill points than normal; 4 sounds right. -not be used for characters at all, but to replace a commoner level (more experience at being a commoner would result in more expert levels).
Sensei Gith 12-22-03, 07:17 PM	Anyone?
DM Zoc 12-23-03, 06:47 AM	Akashic
Sensei Gith 12-23-03, 08:08 AM	No. Not "semi-mystical communal memory guy." Expert. (Not that the Akashic is a bad class, but it's not what I'm looking for.)
Noth 12-23-03, 10:01 AM	What book is the akashic in?
FenixZero 12-23-03, 10:09 AM	I like your idea because this make it better for DMs (if they adopt this) to have as a player class and then the player can do more. I the skill points should max out at 8, 10 is to many. I like it so far.
baoban sith 12-23-03, 10:46 AM	BaB: 3/4 HD: d6 Saves 1-2 good of choice skill points: 10 +int mod Skill list: any Proficiencies: simple weapon, light armor, buckler level Special 1........none(it's good enough for a 1st level class) 2........skill feat 3........jack of all trades (use skills untrained) 4........ 5........skill feat, skill mastery 6........ 7........ 8........skill feat 9........ 10......skill mastery 11......skill feat 12...... 13...... 14......skill feat 15......skill mastery 16...... 17......skill feat 18....... 19....... 20.......skill feat, skill mastery Skill feat: skill focus, or any feat that provides +2 to two skills [ I could see adding some kind of special to levels 7, 13, and 19 as well, perhaps a choice from things like the traps ability, a feat from a list including things like track, endurance, run, etc., Is that too strong? 7 skill feats and 4 skill masteries, and nothing else? Compare to the bard or rogue.
Sensei Gith 12-23-03, 11:24 AM	Looks great! I'm not sure what could be done about the apprentice level, though, since there are no first-level class features.
mercurywyrm 12-23-03, 12:17 PM	Hmm, interesting idea on commoners being 0th level of the expert class and upping the expert class. However, the expert class isn't really that far off from being viable as a PC class. The only thing I think is odd about it is the armor proficiencies, drop them, they are unneccesary. I also think you should allow them to choose their high save at first level. And I would drop the Hit Dice down to d4 like wizard and sorcerer and psion. Then to make up for it I would give them the ability to take special talents at first level and every level they don't get a feat thereafter. These special talents would be things like this. Light armor and buckler proficiency Medium armor and sheild proficiency Heavy armor and Tower sheild proficiency Martial light weapons proficiency Martial one handed weapons proficiency Martial two handed weapons proficiency Martial ranged weapons proficiency Exotic weapon proficiency Take ten in any situation on specified class skill(such as jump or tumble or climb) (may be taken multiple times, each time applying to a different class skill) Increased Hit Die (starting from level chosen, may only be taken until at d10 hit die) Knolegeable (All knolege skills are class skills) Additional high save (may be taken up to twice) Bonus Feat This gives a more fluid progression and mathes it up some to the base classes and the (commoner) expert level zero would have no high saves, would roll d4 for hit points, would have half first level skill points, and no first level feat, but still has all racial abilities (including a human's bonus feat and skill points despite the specified "first level" thing)
Shadowfoot 12-23-03, 12:30 PM	Check out my professional (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=146203) class; it's designed as an expert core class.
Xythlord 12-23-03, 05:20 PM	This subject is one near and dear to my heart, as I have felt the need to have a class more closely represent those who skills lies more in a professional aspect rather than a strictly adventuring one. Before I go ahead and post this let me point out the this class was made for my home campaign which uses a few house rules (don't they all :rolleyes: ). Anyways, to the point. My class, the Specialist, was conceived as a way for a character to play many different rolls without having to make a dozen new core classes, i.e. -sailor, blacksmith, diplomat, sage, scout, artisan, etc. All these are viable archtypes (while shadowfoot lines out dozens more in his professional thread) and choosing to make one (in my case I was considering the sailor) would imply that others are just as valid. This class may not be exactly what you are looking for, or for that matter even balanced in your campaign, but may provide some very good material for you to steal....eh, work off of :D . IMC I have allowed multiclassing without exception and encourage it. If you want a pirate then the thief and the specialist are the classes for you.....my campaign does away with almost all but a handful of prestige classes and I have re-wrote most of the core classes as well to better mesh with the world at hand (no clerics or gods for that matter, no palidins, rangers cast no spells, lots o' other stuff :smirk: ) So without any further ado. Specialist The Specialist operates as the craftsfolk and professionals in the world. They are usually educated to some degree or another and often times can be very wealthy (to those with highly honed skills). They normally do not have the inclination to be adventurers, but they are capable in their own fields and have skills that can be invaluable on many occasions. The skilled blacksmith, the astute magistrate, the caring healer, the canny merchant, the wise sage, and the master craftsman are all examples of the specialist. Alignment: usually lawful but none required. Hit Die: d4 Class Skills: The specialist can choose any 12 skills to be class skills. None of these skills may be skills exclusive to some other class. Skill Points at First Level: (10 + Int Modifier) x 4 Skill Points at each Addition Level: 10 + Int Modifier Level BAB Fort Ref Will special 1 +0 +0 +0 +0 Bonus Feat 2 +1 +0 +0 +0 Class Ability 3 +1 +1 +1 +1 Favored Skill 4 +2 +1 +1 +1 5 +2 +1 +1 +1 Bonus Feat 6 +3 +2 +2 +2 Class Ability 7 +3 +2 +2 +2 Favored Skill 8 +4 +2 +2 +2 9 +4 +3 +3 +3 Bonus Feat 10 +5 +3 +3 +3 Class Ability 11 +5 +3 +3 +3 Favored Skill 12 +6/+1 +4 +4 +4 13 +6/+1 +4 +4 +4 Bonus Feat 14 +7/+2 +4 +4 +4 Class Ability 15 +7/+2 +5 +5 +5 Favored Skill 16 +8/+3 +5 +5 +5 17 +8/+3 +5 +5 +5 Bonus Feat 18 +9+/4 +6 +6 +6 Class Ability 19 +9/+4 +6 +6 +6 Favored Skill 20 +10/+5 +6 +6 +6 Bonus Feat Class Features All of the following are class features of the Specialist. Saving Throws: Unlike many of the classes featured, the specialist hails from many backgrounds with skills and abilities to represent many different occupations. At 1st level the specialist chooses one of his saving throw categories (Fort, Ref, or Will) to become good (+12 at 20th level). These changes are then permanent for as long as the character progress in the specialist class. Weapons and Armor: Specialists are proficient with all simple weapons. They are proficient with light armors only, and they are not proficient with shields at all. Note that check penalties for armor heavier than leather apply to the skills Balance, Climb, Escape Artist, Hide, Jump, Move Silently, Pick Pockets and Tumble. Also, Swim checks suffer a –1 penalty for every 5 pounds of armor and equipment carried Bonus Feat: The Specialist can select any General feat, as long as he meets any pre-requisites and the feat supports the Specialist concept. Favored Skill: The specialist is able to choose any non-exclusive skill or any class skill. This skill is always considered a class skill for you, and the maximum number of ranks you may have in it is equal to your character level +3. Class Ability: These are special abilities that enhance a field, craft or skill of the specialist. Artisan: You have a knack for learning Craft skills. You gain a +2 competence bonus on three different Craft skills of your choice. You must have at least 1 rank in each of the skills to which you choose to apply this bonus (This does not stack with Skill Emphasis). Rapid Craftsman: The character takes 25% less time to perform a single type of Craft check. This ability may be chosen more than once, each time applying to a new skill. Coordinate Apprentices: You gain +3 per helper assigned to your service, who takes the Aid Another action in helping you make a Craft or Profession check, up to a maximum of +9. Eidetic Memory: You have a very sharp memory for details. You receive a +2 competence bonus to any Intelligence checks that you make to recall the details of something you have seen, a book you have read, or a conversation to which you have listened. Furthermore, you make an Intelligence check (DC20) to recall anything you have seen with photographic clarity or to recall the series of turns necessary to return to the starting point of a maze. You may not retry this check for any given object if you fail. Also, you may not use this feat to learn spells you have seen in spell books or scrolls. This ability may only be chosen at 2nd level. tiquette: When making a Diplomacy skill check, you ignore any circumstance penalties for dealing with those of a different culture or race. You also gain a +2 circumstance bonus on your Charisma checks to alter a non-player character’s initial attitude toward you. Fool’s Gold: The character can make inferior items seem good and good items appear exceptional. With a successful bluff check (vs. targets Sense Motive) the Specialist is able to sell his products for twice their normal value. Learning Mastery: You can increase your maximum ranks allowable in one skill by 1 rank (i.e. –class level +4). You do not gain any skill points from this feat, you only get to increase you maximum limit. This affects both class and cross-class skills) Learning Perfection: You can increase your maximum ranks allowable in one skill by 3 points (i.e. –class level +6). This ability can only be applied to a skill which you have already applied Skill Emphasis and Learning Mastery. The effect of this ability does not stack with Learning Mastery. This ability can be taken multiple times, each time applying to different class skills. Poison Use: You know how to use poisons effectively. This ability only applies to the % chance that you may poison yourself while attempting to use poisons. It does not provide immunity to poisons. Skill Concentration: You get a +5 bonus on all skill checks with the skill selected. This ability can only be used on a skill you have previously selected for skill emphasis. You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack with skill emphasis. Each time you take this feat, it applies to a new skill. Skill Emphasis: The specialist gains a +3 competence bonus to skill checks on a chosen class skill; he may not choose this class ability more than once for any single skill. Skill Mastery: The professional chooses number of class skills equal to his Intelligence modifier; the professional can now Take 10 on these skills under any circumstances. This ability can be taken multiple times, each time applying to different class skills. Tutor: The character may grant another character a +6 bonus in any single type of skill check using the "Aid Another" action. This ability may be chosen more than once, each time applying to a new skill. Wealth: It’s good to be rich. It’s even better to be born rich. Once you reach 2nd level you gain an extra 250 silver marks (mk). Furthermore, every time you go up in level, you can draw upon your family’s investments, gaining 250 mk for each level you have when your level increase occurs. This wealth does not magically appear in your pockets; you must collect it from a family business, a relation, or some other source of your family’s wealth. If you cannot collect the money before you go up a level again, you lose the benefit for that level (but you can, of course, collect the money gained for your new level). This ability may only be chosen at 2nd level. Well I hope that I get some positive feedback on this and that somepeople get some use out of it.
Sensei Gith 12-23-03, 10:34 PM	:drool: :bow: :drool: That's perfect! We need a thief smiley. And a way to organize them so we can find a thief smiley.