Balancing Character [Archive] - Wizards Community

Balancing Character [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
DrizztFan
03-23-04, 10:41 AM Well, I killed my party last night. Wasn't totally my fault. Fighter rolled really bad and the foe rolled really well. Bad combination. Oh well, on to my post which is relevant to this board.

We are starting a game run by one of my friends that was in the group that I killed. He had been making up a game this whole time and now that their characters are all dead, we are going to start that one. Well actually, one character got away thanks to invisibility and a swift riding dog, but I digress again.

We are having a 4 member party. We are definately going to have a Sorcerer and a wizard. I think they are actually going to be brothers who bicker all the time about who is the best spell caster, normal wizard sorcerer squabbles. The third is going to be either a Paladin or a Ranger.

I am trying to choose a 4th character that will balance this party out so that we are not totally weak at low levels. I am thinking that if player 3 chooses Ranger I will choose Paladin but any suggestions would be welcome.

Thanks.
detectevil
03-23-04, 10:56 AM Bard is always a good call in this situations. Can share the healing responsability with the paladin, fights a little bit and can get by with skills.

Rogue 1/bard X, since you are going to need a trapfinder.
Lina_Inverse
03-23-04, 12:09 PM cleric or druid,you dont have one and every party must have one by the CR system.
the fact you get to laugh at the patheticness of the rest of the party is gravy.

the druid can easily fill all rogue roles anyhow.

stealth:wildshape
traps:summons
fighting:ummmm hello primary divine
SmiloDan
03-23-04, 04:09 PM I'm playing in a party right now with no primary healer, and we are having a terrible time of it.

I'm also playing in another party where I play an elf druid archer, and we are doing excellently, even though our party is smaller, we're able to handle higher CR critters all the time.

So I would definitely play a healer if I was you. Either a self-buffing cleric since you are also lacking a secondary melee guy, or a druid. Eventually, the wildshape makes a melee-monster. I would suggest getting one of the arcane brothers to be master summoner to fill up the battle field with allies. A druid can fill the same roll, actually.

Maybe a druid with the Augment Summoning feat?
Tony Vargas
03-23-04, 04:26 PM First off, two arcanists in a 4 person party is probably not a great idea, but it sounds like they're minds are made up.

If player 3 goes for a Ranger, play a Cleric. The party could really use the healing, and the Ranger will just have to fill the rogue shoes (a level of rogue for the trapfinding and sneak attack wouldn't be bad), as well as doing melee duty. By the same token, your Cleric will have to be melee-capable, as well as the party healer. Alternately, if the players are up for it, the party could just try to avoid melee, going for stealth and magic to solve most of thier problems - in which case you could play a rogue, bard, druid or rogue/Cleric(trickery) or something along those lines (someone who, like the archanists, and unlike the typical heavy-armored cleric, will at least not be a stealth-liability).

If player 3 goes for a Paladin, you are going to have some potential healing from him, though certainly not enough to take care of the party - but, you will have a good melee guy. So, you could take a Rogue1/BardX (trapfinding from the rogue level, and some healing/buffing from the bard levels), or, you could go with a Druid (less melee capable than the cleric, and less of healer, but has survival and becomes a very good scout once he can wildshape).

Whatever spellcaster you end up playing, you'll be able to ignore at least some blasting/buffing/miscellaneous duties, leaving those to the brothers arcane, and concentrate more on healing and melee ability.
coolhand37
03-24-04, 10:59 AM Go with a barbarian...can you imagine the fun you'd have roleplaying 2 arcane casters, a paladin, and a barbarian??? That sounds like a grand old time.
Jaerom Darkwind
03-24-04, 02:28 PM Probably a Druid. Druid is, IMO, the most powerful class, and since your party is fairly weak, you'll need the boost. Memorize mostly healing spells, at least for a few levels. You'll be a good stealthy guy in the forest, decent in melee, and can help the pally with healing. RP not, play NG, to stay on the paladin's good side (LN maybe, but most paladins swing more towards good than law). You're going to want to work together closely and well, and can't if you don't see eye to eye on most things.
xaeric
03-24-04, 04:26 PM Originally posted by DrizztFan
We are definately going to have a Sorcerer and a wizard. I think they are actually going to be brothers who bicker all the time about who is the best spell caster, normal wizard sorcerer squabbles.

Actually goning to be a brother sister squabble. :D :smirk:
D_Martin
03-24-04, 06:37 PM If he makes a Pally, you might be able to get away with a Rog or Brd or maybe a Rgr/Clr(Good Combo) or Rgr/Rog Bowperson. But you will be light on healing.

The safest play would be a Clr in either case. Especially with 2 Wiz's(you will be picking them up from being unconscious alot probably). With a Clr you have more spellpower as well as a pretty good combatant. You can live without a Rog, but traps will be more difficult.
Dresdor
03-24-04, 06:50 PM I say play a monk or a barbarian. Then stock up on healing potions and don't give the two arcaner's any. Who says you need a balanced party?

For example, my friend is DMing a 4th level campaign. The other three players decided on their characters early on. The DM would have a rogue/barbarian NPC, my gf will have a pure druid, and my other friend a pure fighter. They are all playing elves, which is kinda wierd, but they're all freaks about elves. If you say the word Legolas, they all go nuts, but I digresss.

Anyhow, did I play a pansy arcane caster? Hell no. What did I do? human 3rd level rogue/1st level fighter. Why? That's the character I wanted to play. Don't care what happens, that's the character I want to play.

And I doubt we'll run up against any enemy spellslingers, as my DM thinks all casters are to "complicated" and doesn't like them. I wouldn't be surprised if all we came up against were tanks and rogues.
Dresdor
03-24-04, 06:57 PM That's how I feel anyhow, play whatever character YOU want to play. Screw what the party needs, play what you want to play.
Votan
03-24-04, 07:50 PM Originally posted by DrizztFan
Well, I killed my party last night. Wasn't totally my fault. Fighter rolled really bad and the foe rolled really well. Bad combination. Oh well, on to my post which is relevant to this board.

We are starting a game run by one of my friends that was in the group that I killed. He had been making up a game this whole time and now that their characters are all dead, we are going to start that one. Well actually, one character got away thanks to invisibility and a swift riding dog, but I digress again.

We are having a 4 member party. We are definately going to have a Sorcerer and a wizard. I think they are actually going to be brothers who bicker all the time about who is the best spell caster, normal wizard sorcerer squabbles. The third is going to be either a Paladin or a Ranger.

I am trying to choose a 4th character that will balance this party out so that we are not totally weak at low levels. I am thinking that if player 3 chooses Ranger I will choose Paladin but any suggestions would be welcome.

Thanks.

Paladin is not a bad choice. The Ranger can FIND the traps. With 2 arcane casters you should have no trouble finding creative ways areound them.

Healing with be weak but better than nothing. It will improve alot when the Padadin gets spells.

So if you want to play a paladin then go ahead. It'll be a fun party!
mercurywyrm
03-24-04, 08:59 PM Fill it up with a ranger/rouge because of traps and finish it off with a bard/pally/druid/or cleric based around healing. That is just my recomendation. One reccomendation I have is to show the sorcerer player the battle sorcerer, might be interesting and would help the party survive melee. And if a DM is nice they might let a sorcerer get a cure spell or two for spells known, as their spells known list is so limited they are sacrificing allot to get it anyways, and it doen't hurt flavor too much. With the firepower of two arcane casters at your hands I think you will have plenty of spells offensively. I reccomend trying to get the wizard not to memorize spells the sorcerer has, that way you have more versitility at your disposal.:D
Lael
03-25-04, 12:06 AM A Paladin wouldn't be too bad as it seems your party needs a little bit of a punch in HTH (that is assuming things get past the wizard and sorceror). But having a wizard and sorceror in the party might conflict with the paladins beliefs a tad, so possible try a fighter/cleric if you wanted to have a paladinisk character without the "hangups" of the paladin.

Other then that, I would suggest a bard. Bards can pretty much do anything if you get the mix right. It was a pity my 9th level bard decided to pull death from a deck of many things, but I like my Fighter 6 / Cleric 3 now :angel:

Let us know what you decide on :behold:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DrizztFan 03-23-04, 10:41 AM	Well, I killed my party last night. Wasn't totally my fault. Fighter rolled really bad and the foe rolled really well. Bad combination. Oh well, on to my post which is relevant to this board. We are starting a game run by one of my friends that was in the group that I killed. He had been making up a game this whole time and now that their characters are all dead, we are going to start that one. Well actually, one character got away thanks to invisibility and a swift riding dog, but I digress again. We are having a 4 member party. We are definately going to have a Sorcerer and a wizard. I think they are actually going to be brothers who bicker all the time about who is the best spell caster, normal wizard sorcerer squabbles. The third is going to be either a Paladin or a Ranger. I am trying to choose a 4th character that will balance this party out so that we are not totally weak at low levels. I am thinking that if player 3 chooses Ranger I will choose Paladin but any suggestions would be welcome. Thanks.
detectevil 03-23-04, 10:56 AM	Bard is always a good call in this situations. Can share the healing responsability with the paladin, fights a little bit and can get by with skills. Rogue 1/bard X, since you are going to need a trapfinder.
Lina_Inverse 03-23-04, 12:09 PM	cleric or druid,you dont have one and every party must have one by the CR system. the fact you get to laugh at the patheticness of the rest of the party is gravy. the druid can easily fill all rogue roles anyhow. stealth:wildshape traps:summons fighting:ummmm hello primary divine
SmiloDan 03-23-04, 04:09 PM	I'm playing in a party right now with no primary healer, and we are having a terrible time of it. I'm also playing in another party where I play an elf druid archer, and we are doing excellently, even though our party is smaller, we're able to handle higher CR critters all the time. So I would definitely play a healer if I was you. Either a self-buffing cleric since you are also lacking a secondary melee guy, or a druid. Eventually, the wildshape makes a melee-monster. I would suggest getting one of the arcane brothers to be master summoner to fill up the battle field with allies. A druid can fill the same roll, actually. Maybe a druid with the Augment Summoning feat?
Tony Vargas 03-23-04, 04:26 PM	First off, two arcanists in a 4 person party is probably not a great idea, but it sounds like they're minds are made up. If player 3 goes for a Ranger, play a Cleric. The party could really use the healing, and the Ranger will just have to fill the rogue shoes (a level of rogue for the trapfinding and sneak attack wouldn't be bad), as well as doing melee duty. By the same token, your Cleric will have to be melee-capable, as well as the party healer. Alternately, if the players are up for it, the party could just try to avoid melee, going for stealth and magic to solve most of thier problems - in which case you could play a rogue, bard, druid or rogue/Cleric(trickery) or something along those lines (someone who, like the archanists, and unlike the typical heavy-armored cleric, will at least not be a stealth-liability). If player 3 goes for a Paladin, you are going to have some potential healing from him, though certainly not enough to take care of the party - but, you will have a good melee guy. So, you could take a Rogue1/BardX (trapfinding from the rogue level, and some healing/buffing from the bard levels), or, you could go with a Druid (less melee capable than the cleric, and less of healer, but has survival and becomes a very good scout once he can wildshape). Whatever spellcaster you end up playing, you'll be able to ignore at least some blasting/buffing/miscellaneous duties, leaving those to the brothers arcane, and concentrate more on healing and melee ability.
coolhand37 03-24-04, 10:59 AM	Go with a barbarian...can you imagine the fun you'd have roleplaying 2 arcane casters, a paladin, and a barbarian??? That sounds like a grand old time.
Jaerom Darkwind 03-24-04, 02:28 PM	Probably a Druid. Druid is, IMO, the most powerful class, and since your party is fairly weak, you'll need the boost. Memorize mostly healing spells, at least for a few levels. You'll be a good stealthy guy in the forest, decent in melee, and can help the pally with healing. RP not, play NG, to stay on the paladin's good side (LN maybe, but most paladins swing more towards good than law). You're going to want to work together closely and well, and can't if you don't see eye to eye on most things.
xaeric 03-24-04, 04:26 PM	Originally posted by DrizztFan We are definately going to have a Sorcerer and a wizard. I think they are actually going to be brothers who bicker all the time about who is the best spell caster, normal wizard sorcerer squabbles. Actually goning to be a brother sister squabble. :D :smirk:
D_Martin 03-24-04, 06:37 PM	If he makes a Pally, you might be able to get away with a Rog or Brd or maybe a Rgr/Clr(Good Combo) or Rgr/Rog Bowperson. But you will be light on healing. The safest play would be a Clr in either case. Especially with 2 Wiz's(you will be picking them up from being unconscious alot probably). With a Clr you have more spellpower as well as a pretty good combatant. You can live without a Rog, but traps will be more difficult.
Dresdor 03-24-04, 06:50 PM	I say play a monk or a barbarian. Then stock up on healing potions and don't give the two arcaner's any. Who says you need a balanced party? For example, my friend is DMing a 4th level campaign. The other three players decided on their characters early on. The DM would have a rogue/barbarian NPC, my gf will have a pure druid, and my other friend a pure fighter. They are all playing elves, which is kinda wierd, but they're all freaks about elves. If you say the word Legolas, they all go nuts, but I digresss. Anyhow, did I play a pansy arcane caster? Hell no. What did I do? human 3rd level rogue/1st level fighter. Why? That's the character I wanted to play. Don't care what happens, that's the character I want to play. And I doubt we'll run up against any enemy spellslingers, as my DM thinks all casters are to "complicated" and doesn't like them. I wouldn't be surprised if all we came up against were tanks and rogues.
Dresdor 03-24-04, 06:57 PM	That's how I feel anyhow, play whatever character YOU want to play. Screw what the party needs, play what you want to play.
Votan 03-24-04, 07:50 PM	Originally posted by DrizztFan Well, I killed my party last night. Wasn't totally my fault. Fighter rolled really bad and the foe rolled really well. Bad combination. Oh well, on to my post which is relevant to this board. We are starting a game run by one of my friends that was in the group that I killed. He had been making up a game this whole time and now that their characters are all dead, we are going to start that one. Well actually, one character got away thanks to invisibility and a swift riding dog, but I digress again. We are having a 4 member party. We are definately going to have a Sorcerer and a wizard. I think they are actually going to be brothers who bicker all the time about who is the best spell caster, normal wizard sorcerer squabbles. The third is going to be either a Paladin or a Ranger. I am trying to choose a 4th character that will balance this party out so that we are not totally weak at low levels. I am thinking that if player 3 chooses Ranger I will choose Paladin but any suggestions would be welcome. Thanks. Paladin is not a bad choice. The Ranger can FIND the traps. With 2 arcane casters you should have no trouble finding creative ways areound them. Healing with be weak but better than nothing. It will improve alot when the Padadin gets spells. So if you want to play a paladin then go ahead. It'll be a fun party!
mercurywyrm 03-24-04, 08:59 PM	Fill it up with a ranger/rouge because of traps and finish it off with a bard/pally/druid/or cleric based around healing. That is just my recomendation. One reccomendation I have is to show the sorcerer player the battle sorcerer, might be interesting and would help the party survive melee. And if a DM is nice they might let a sorcerer get a cure spell or two for spells known, as their spells known list is so limited they are sacrificing allot to get it anyways, and it doen't hurt flavor too much. With the firepower of two arcane casters at your hands I think you will have plenty of spells offensively. I reccomend trying to get the wizard not to memorize spells the sorcerer has, that way you have more versitility at your disposal.:D
Lael 03-25-04, 12:06 AM	A Paladin wouldn't be too bad as it seems your party needs a little bit of a punch in HTH (that is assuming things get past the wizard and sorceror). But having a wizard and sorceror in the party might conflict with the paladins beliefs a tad, so possible try a fighter/cleric if you wanted to have a paladinisk character without the "hangups" of the paladin. Other then that, I would suggest a bard. Bards can pretty much do anything if you get the mix right. It was a pity my 9th level bard decided to pull death from a deck of many things, but I like my Fighter 6 / Cleric 3 now :angel: Let us know what you decide on :behold: