Barbarian Alternate Class Featrures [Archive] - Wizards Community

Barbarian Alternate Class Featrures [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Wraith428
07-09-07, 12:42 PM So I have a guy creating a Warforged Barbarian-1/Fighter-1 w/ the Adamantine Body Feat.

Obviously the Barbarian's Fast Movement class feature won't work as Adamantine Body counts as Heavy Armor (according to the FAQ).

He plans on trading out the Fast Movement feature for an Alternate Barbarian Class feature out of Complete Champion. Don't have the book in front of me but I think its called Totem Spirit. This allows you to pick a totem spirit who gives you a different ability. His warforged has a cat theme so he picked the lion or tiger feature that gives him pounce.

Here's my question, should he be allowed to trade a dead ability (Fast Movement) that he'll never be able to use because of Adamantine Body for another ability? Seem a little muchkiny but by RAW it appears fine. The Totem Spirit ability says nothing about wearing medium armor or less.

Any thoughts out there.

Thanks,

Wraith428
Karzach
07-09-07, 12:46 PM I don't particularly see anything wrong with that.

The only thing I can comment on here is the fact that feat forces you to wear heavy armor all the time. The barbarian doesn't have heavy armor proficiency so I'm pretty sure he'll suffer the ACP to his attack rolls and the like.

Not 100% certain of that, however.
Anguish2
07-09-07, 01:53 PM I'm away from my books right now, but I seem to recall it being pointed out repeatedly that the warforged body armors don't have an ACP. They impose a penalty to certain skills. So, for instance a human with full plate takes -16 to Swim checks, a warforged only takes -8 because the text for Swim says your ACP is doubled for that skill. Adamantine Body just imposes a flat -8, not an ACP. Which is to say... every warforged is proficient with its body.
Majick
07-09-07, 01:59 PM I see no reason why you would not be able to trade a 'dead ability' or class feature out. That's like saying a Ranger should not be able to take the disruptive stike ability variant from PHB2 because your particular ranger has never had or wanted an animal companion...

it makes sense that he would do that:

"I always knew i was never going to be able to run like the wind (being made of metal and all), but i could always catch up because my foe would always tire, so instead, i trained harder than anyone else to know how to rip them to shreds when i finally caught them..."
Karzach
07-09-07, 02:02 PM There's also the fact that I misread the level build. He's got 1 level in fighter, so he's got the proficency, making my point null and void.

On an unrelated note, I'd suggest he take Mithral body, though that might be because I've been playing a lot of Warblades lately and i've found I love the mobility.
asteroth16
07-09-07, 03:13 PM let him tak ethe complete champion ability, it makes barbarians so much better pounceriffic. heck i dipped on level into barbarian for it to fit the them e of my character. he a level 5 fighter/level 5 chaos monk/level1 barbarian half-orc. pounce is teh awesome
Karzach
07-09-07, 05:48 PM One other way to look at it is like this:

Say your PC decided to make a human FTR 1/BBN 1 and taking the pounce variant rule. Now, for whatever reason, lets say he manages to get his hands on adamantine full plate, gets it reworked so he can wear it, and then dons it and goes about his business. Does it matter then?

The opening circumstances are a little different, but the end result is pretty much the same.
Chimaera2000
07-13-07, 05:45 PM Indeed. Neither warforged nor Adamantine Body is terribly overpowered outside of the lowest levels of play. If there are any balance arguments, it should be about being able to get friggin' Pounce with one barbarian level. :nonono:
Saric
07-13-07, 05:51 PM Indeed. Neither warforged nor Adamantine Body is terribly overpowered outside of the lowest levels of play. If there are any balance arguments, it should be about being able to get friggin' Pounce with one barbarian level. :nonono:

Thats why I switched that ability with the level 7 one from the book. It makes no sense for a barbarian to have an ability he can't use until level 6 unless he dual wields weapons. It also promotes every melee oriented character to level dip 1 level in barbarian much a la ranger 3.0.
Majick
07-14-07, 09:32 AM Thats why I switched that ability with the level 7 one from the book. It makes no sense for a barbarian to have an ability he can't use until level 6 unless he dual wields weapons. It also promotes every melee oriented character to level dip 1 level in barbarian much a la ranger 3.0.

*GASP* you mean a melee orientated character might actually be, by the gods, effective at higher levels? They could, for lack of better wording, do their jobs better with a 1 level dip in barbarian?

oh heavens no! :waits:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Wraith428 07-09-07, 12:42 PM	So I have a guy creating a Warforged Barbarian-1/Fighter-1 w/ the Adamantine Body Feat. Obviously the Barbarian's Fast Movement class feature won't work as Adamantine Body counts as Heavy Armor (according to the FAQ). He plans on trading out the Fast Movement feature for an Alternate Barbarian Class feature out of Complete Champion. Don't have the book in front of me but I think its called Totem Spirit. This allows you to pick a totem spirit who gives you a different ability. His warforged has a cat theme so he picked the lion or tiger feature that gives him pounce. Here's my question, should he be allowed to trade a dead ability (Fast Movement) that he'll never be able to use because of Adamantine Body for another ability? Seem a little muchkiny but by RAW it appears fine. The Totem Spirit ability says nothing about wearing medium armor or less. Any thoughts out there. Thanks, Wraith428
Karzach 07-09-07, 12:46 PM	I don't particularly see anything wrong with that. The only thing I can comment on here is the fact that feat forces you to wear heavy armor all the time. The barbarian doesn't have heavy armor proficiency so I'm pretty sure he'll suffer the ACP to his attack rolls and the like. Not 100% certain of that, however.
Anguish2 07-09-07, 01:53 PM	I'm away from my books right now, but I seem to recall it being pointed out repeatedly that the warforged body armors don't have an ACP. They impose a penalty to certain skills. So, for instance a human with full plate takes -16 to Swim checks, a warforged only takes -8 because the text for Swim says your ACP is doubled for that skill. Adamantine Body just imposes a flat -8, not an ACP. Which is to say... every warforged is proficient with its body.
Majick 07-09-07, 01:59 PM	I see no reason why you would not be able to trade a 'dead ability' or class feature out. That's like saying a Ranger should not be able to take the disruptive stike ability variant from PHB2 because your particular ranger has never had or wanted an animal companion... it makes sense that he would do that: "I always knew i was never going to be able to run like the wind (being made of metal and all), but i could always catch up because my foe would always tire, so instead, i trained harder than anyone else to know how to rip them to shreds when i finally caught them..."
Karzach 07-09-07, 02:02 PM	There's also the fact that I misread the level build. He's got 1 level in fighter, so he's got the proficency, making my point null and void. On an unrelated note, I'd suggest he take Mithral body, though that might be because I've been playing a lot of Warblades lately and i've found I love the mobility.
asteroth16 07-09-07, 03:13 PM	let him tak ethe complete champion ability, it makes barbarians so much better pounceriffic. heck i dipped on level into barbarian for it to fit the them e of my character. he a level 5 fighter/level 5 chaos monk/level1 barbarian half-orc. pounce is teh awesome
Karzach 07-09-07, 05:48 PM	One other way to look at it is like this: Say your PC decided to make a human FTR 1/BBN 1 and taking the pounce variant rule. Now, for whatever reason, lets say he manages to get his hands on adamantine full plate, gets it reworked so he can wear it, and then dons it and goes about his business. Does it matter then? The opening circumstances are a little different, but the end result is pretty much the same.
Chimaera2000 07-13-07, 05:45 PM	Indeed. Neither warforged nor Adamantine Body is terribly overpowered outside of the lowest levels of play. If there are any balance arguments, it should be about being able to get friggin' Pounce with one barbarian level. :nonono:
Saric 07-13-07, 05:51 PM	Indeed. Neither warforged nor Adamantine Body is terribly overpowered outside of the lowest levels of play. If there are any balance arguments, it should be about being able to get friggin' Pounce with one barbarian level. :nonono: Thats why I switched that ability with the level 7 one from the book. It makes no sense for a barbarian to have an ability he can't use until level 6 unless he dual wields weapons. It also promotes every melee oriented character to level dip 1 level in barbarian much a la ranger 3.0.
Majick 07-14-07, 09:32 AM	Thats why I switched that ability with the level 7 one from the book. It makes no sense for a barbarian to have an ability he can't use until level 6 unless he dual wields weapons. It also promotes every melee oriented character to level dip 1 level in barbarian much a la ranger 3.0. GASP you mean a melee orientated character might actually be, by the gods, effective at higher levels? They could, for lack of better wording, do their jobs better with a 1 level dip in barbarian? oh heavens no! :waits: