Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ElCapitan 01-12-04, 12:34 PM	Hi, I don't think of myself of a power player but I still want to create the most efficient character for the benefit of my party. Right now, I am thinking of taking one of the following three weapons and I would like people's opinion of them. Especially, which weapon has the most damage potential and which one is more useful in a party. Lastly, my character will be a Half-Orc Barbarian with 18 str., 17 Con, and 14 Dex. 1) Falchion-Dam:2-8, Crit. 18-20 x2. 2) Greatsword-Dam:2-12, Crit. 19-20 x2. 3) Heavy Flail-Dam:1-10, Crit. 19-20 x2. +2 to disarm oppenonts and the weapon is able to perform trip attacks on enemy combatants. Thanks, Elcapitan
paolung 01-12-04, 12:46 PM	of the 3 listed, greatsword IMO is the best.
Thorak 01-12-04, 12:49 PM	Everything I've seen compares 2-handed weapons, usually at a disadvantage unless they're exotic, to the greatsword, so it's probably a good place to start. Flails are good for techniques like disarm and trip, and falchions are good if you want more, but less damaging, criticals. Of course, unless you really need to pick one single one, take one of every weapon you want. What with 3rd edition slaughtering the annoying 2nd edition weapon proficiencies, the only reason to focus on one weapon alone is if you take the weapon focus tree. Which is only usually a good route if you plan to go whole hog with it, and for that you need to be a fighter, which you aren't. My suggestion: Make sure you have at least one big, gnarly slashing, piercing, and bludgeoning weapon, that'll at least deal with critters that have attack type damage resistances. You can worry about magic and material resistances later. Besides, with, say, a Heavy Flail, a Greatsword or Greataxe (roughly same damage, 19-20x2 or 20x3 critical, do you want more or better criticals?) and, say, a Ranseur. Then, depending on what you want you can cover all the basic weapon types, disarm bonuses on two weapons, trip bonus on one, and reach on one. Become the Swiss Army Barbarian.
Robert rath 01-12-04, 12:58 PM	I like the Falchion because of the 18-20 crit, however, if I had my choice, I'd use either the Greataxe 1-12 X3 Crit, or a Scythe 2-8 Damage with a X4 crit. These are my personal favorites.
Johannixx 01-12-04, 01:06 PM	If you have the Intelligence for it, take Improved Trip and use the Heavy Flail, along with a Halberd. That way you can trip with any of your weapons, and you get all three damage types (Bludgeoning with the flail, Piercing and Slashing with the halberd). Your Rage will increase your Strength (and thus your ability to trip effectively), and the fact that your enemies have to spend a move action getting up from prone minimizes the detrimental effect of your lowered AC.
rdjanssen 01-12-04, 01:16 PM	I've found the greataxe to be one of the best barbarian weapons. First off, it seems I usually roll decent numbers on a d12, usually 8 or higher. Though both weapons do a maximum of 12 points of damage (1-12 greataxe, 2-12 greatsword), with a greataxe you have a better chance of doing maximum damage over a greatsword (8.3% versus 2.8%) and a better chance of doing 10+ points of damage (25.0% versus 16.7%). Granted, the greatsword scores a critical hit on two numbers (19-20), but the triple damage from a greataxe critical can be devistating. Consider a Bar1 with an 18 Str using power attack. If he scores a critical hit with the greatsword he'll do 20-40 points of damage. Impressive. But, with a greataxe, he'd do 27-60 points of damage. That could even qualify for the massive damage rule. And this is with a level 1 character.
Arakano 01-12-04, 01:46 PM	Still, without crits, the average damage of a greatsword is 7, while the average dmg of a greataxe is only 6,5 , or did my mathematics fail?
Harliquinn 01-12-04, 04:07 PM	Comparison of Weapons (Assuming you hit on anything 2+) Normal Damage Critical Strikes Overall Weapon Min Max Avg % Min Max Avg Avg/Hit Greatsword 2 12 (2.7%) 7 10% 4 24 (.08%) 14 7.7 Great Axe 1 12 (8.3%) 6.5 5% 3 36 (.06%) 19.5 7.2 Falchion 2 8 (6.3%) 5 15% 4 16 (.4%) 10 5.8 By the numbers, the Greatsword will statistically roll higher average damage. Harliquinn
Johannixx 01-12-04, 04:44 PM	Originally posted by Harliquinn By the numbers, the Greatsword will statistically roll higher average damage. While that is true, damage isn't the only consideration when choosing a weapon. The Halberd and Heavy Flail both allow trip attacks, which are insanely powerful in 3.5. The Halberd also provides two damage types (Piercing and Slashing) and can be used as a pseudo-double-weapon with the Spinning Halberd feat in CW (which also allows the weapon to deal Bludgeoning damage with the haft strike), and the Flail is useful for both disarming and tripping. Both weapons sacrifice an average of 1 point of damage per swing compared to the greataxe, or 1.5 compared to the greatsword, but the benefits far outweigh this, IMHO.
Arakano 01-12-04, 04:48 PM	I would agree. However, a greatsword is clearly (although not much) superior to a greataxe.
Harliquinn 01-12-04, 04:50 PM	I never said the Greatsword was the best weapon, I just said statistically the Greatsword does more damage. Other effects, such as tripping, dual damage types, etc are not easily quantifiable. Damage is. However, as always people should play in such a way to maximize the fun. If every single character used the best weapon due to damage, everyone would use a greatsword if they could. You make a valid point that additional benefits of weapons (reach, tripping, double weapons, etc.) make certain weapons more desirable for some characters.
Johannixx 01-12-04, 05:16 PM	I just happen to feel that the barbarian's general nature makes him a natural for the halberd. He benefits more than other characters from two-handed fighting due to his Str bonus increase while raging. That high Strength also makes tripping a very attractive option for him, because it allows him to use his high Strength while minimizing the amount of damage an enemy can do to him because of his low AC. Combined with his high average hit points and bonus HP due to Rage-induced Con bonuses, it makes the halberd- or flail-wielding barbarian a melee god. I'd lean towards the halberd purely because it can use all three damage types and can be set for a charge, but the flail is definitely useful if you're going up against certain kinds of undead or if you're building a disarm-heavy barb (also a viable build).
rdjanssen 01-12-04, 05:47 PM	True, the greatsword does more damage on average than a greataxe, but the greataxe still outshines the greatsword in odd of greater damage per single hit. This can be crucial when fighting a creature with damage reduction. For example, the list below is the chance of scoring a minimum amount of damage for greatsword, greataxe, and falchion. D S A F 1 -- 100 -- 2 100 91.7 100 3 97.2 83.3 93.8 4 91.7 75.0 81.2 5 83.3 66.7 62.5 6 72.2 58.3 37.5 7 58.3 50.0 18.8 8 33.3 41.7 6.3 9 27.8 33.3 -- 10 16.7 25.0 -- 11 8.3 16.7 -- 12 2.8 8.3 -- Sorry for the difficulty in reading this chart. But, you can see that the odds of doing 8 or more points of damage to a creature are greater when using a greataxe than a greatsword (41.7% versus 33.3%) If a creature had damage reduction of 10, assuming weapon damage alone a greataxe does damage twice as often as the greatsword.
ninjarabbit 01-12-04, 06:02 PM	You all have good points, but let me add my 2 cps. The greatsword is a more consistant weapon while the greataxe is a more random weapon. The axe has an equal chance of doing either 1 damage or 12 damage, where as you can usually expect to do 4-9 points of damage with a greatsword. For rping, I think a gretsword should be used by lawful characters for its consistantsy while the greataxe should be used by chaotic characters for its randomness. For the original question, just take on of each and use which ever one is best for the situation.
Jon Hightower 01-12-04, 06:07 PM	Using a double handed weapon for tripping can be a great boon if you also use improved trip. The extra attack after your opponant is prone is a great way to hit those higher AC opponants and limit their effectiveness in combat. This means you can be quite effective against creatures that the greatsword weilder might miss because of the extra +4 to hit for being prone. If the creature is easier to hit you have the option to power attack for -4 to hit and +8 to damage without effectively changing your attack bonus. That being said I would opt for the heavy flail. It has done wonders for my Archer character when he was forced in to melee.
ElCapitan 01-12-04, 11:01 PM	Hi all, I appreciate everyones input on this question. However, I still can't decide what weapon to use. I will have to work on a concept and go from there. Anymore responses to this my original post would be apprecieated. Thanks.
Karlindel 01-12-04, 11:28 PM	The greatsword has the best damage on average. I personally think that this is better than the Falchion's higher crit range. Others may disagree. Against foes that can't be critted(which are woefully common in some campaigns), the Greatsword is obviously superior. Against others, the Falchion comes into its own, because the extra crits also multiply all the str and enhancement bonus damage. :angel: If you're going for Imp Trip and/or Imp Disarm, the Heavy Flail is a better choice. I would use a Spiked Chain over it, though, myself. The reach is extremely useful, especially combined with Combat Reflexes. I have a Spiked Chain user in my group, and he's very effective. It also sets you up for Exotic Weapon Master from The Complete Warrior, an excellent PrC.