Barbarian and Monk Cross Class [Archive] - Wizards Community

Barbarian and Monk Cross Class [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Master_Aerethos
05-27-06, 03:37 PM Has anyone thought about doing a Barb/Monk cross class? I think it could be an incredibly powerful character if one was to do 5 lvls barb, 10 monk, and most likely a PrC thrown in there. It could easily serve as a scout AND as a major combatant. Though if going from barb to monk you would lose rage, it's not too bad of a thing. What do you all think?

P.S. I was also thinking of the tattooed thing for barbarians in the PH2. Does it have any actual effects in game, and if so, I was thinking of combining it with the Tattooed Monk PrC. So any info on that would be SUPERB.

Master_Aerethos
Count Arioch the 28th
05-27-06, 03:38 PM You can't cross'class monk and barbarian, because they aren not skills, they are base classes.

If you meant that you want to MULTICLASS monk and barbarian, you still can't because they have contradictory alignment requirements.
Jenrock
05-27-06, 03:41 PM Any possibilities that may be present are thrown off by one thing: monks must be lawful, and barbarinas must be non-lawful. There was a chaotic monk variant in Dragon Magazine some time ago, although I forget which issue it was.
Master_Aerethos
05-27-06, 04:10 PM Sorry, I did mean multi-class. My bad :rolleyes:

At any rate, you can multi-class the two, I'd just have to change my alignment, which I'm going to account for in my fluff.

Jenrock, if you're able and willing to find which issue of Dragon the chaotic monk was in, I would be most thankful, as depending on how the class is constructed, I'd do that opposed to a normal monk/barb. I'd be able to use rage (and if the chaotic monk has it) combined with flurry of blows :devil:

Master_Aerethos
Giant_Gnome
05-27-06, 04:18 PM If I remember correctly there was a semi-humorous feat done up by Eberron creator Keith Baker to explain away a sample NPC in one of the Eberron books who was a Monk/Barbarian (and who had a feat which required the use of Rage). It was called "Noble Savage" or something to that effect. Essentially it allowed Barbarians to be lawful so the combination was possible. Sounds rather useless, I know, but it’s little different than Knight or Monastic Training which allow free multi-classing for Paladins and Monks (a rule I always nix in my games).

Anyway, if you wanted to have a Monk/Barbarian I’d go Monk first and take all the levels you want and then go Barbarian because a Barbarian looses Rage for becoming Lawful, a Monk looses nothing for becoming non-Lawful (not to mention you get better scouting skills if you start as Monk).
Lokathor
05-27-06, 04:21 PM There's also the "Rage Monk" variant in Dragon 310. Give up flurry of blows, still mind, and quivering palm and gain rage, greater rage, and mighty rage as per barbarian. If you turn chaotic you retain your rages and monk levels then stack with barbarian levels to determine rage power.
WarlockDa
05-27-06, 04:22 PM Well you certianly can change alignment in order to multiclass. But once you do you become an "Ex-member" of whichever class you start in.

Start as a Barb and become Lawful = lose Rage and no longer able to take levels in Barb

Start as a Monk and become Non-Lawful = no longer able to gain levels as a monk.

So effectively you 'could' start out as a monk ...go 10 levels,...then change alignment and go 10 levels and barb. Though that would be one heck of a bit of story to explain with a monk suddenly went barbaric.

But it is possible by the RAW.
supernerd8916
05-27-06, 04:43 PM I personally don't like the name "barbarian" for a class. I prefer my barbarians to call themselves "warriors". If a monk/barbarian came from a tribe, which was destroyed and then someone found him (at around 10 years old or so) he would go for monk for a while before embracing his warriors heritage.

or something
pheonixfrostmourn
05-27-06, 05:24 PM I'm all for giving players what they want...as long as they're willing to pay the price.

One of the players in my current game (14th - 15th level) wanted to play monk/barbarian, the price he paid included a detailed character background; spending a feat slot on a custom feat allowing training in both classes( i dislike the "official" multi-class into nearly anything rule); and an additional -20% XP penalty reguardless of favorite class or how close his levels in those 2 classes are.

for some, that's a steep price to pay.
for others, not steep enough to allow breaking one of the games fundamental rules.
but for me & my current players, it's about finding out not only what they want to play, but also what they're willing to sacrifice to play it and then making it happen so that we all have more fun.
myusernameis
05-27-06, 05:29 PM Well on the same line of thought as Ascetic Knight and Ascetic Mage (with a healthy dose of Devoted Performer) I came up with a feat that is in need of evaluation, which i feel is rather suitable for the situation at hand:

Ascetic Rager (I was dipping into the originality juice for that one)
You were trained in a monastary that taught you to attempt to strike a balance between discipline and passion. This aids you both in your search for enlightenment and in using your anger to effect during battle.
Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike, rage 1/day
Benefit: Your Barbarian and Monk levels stack for the purpose of determining your unarmed strike damage. For example a 3rd-level Barbarian/1st-level Monk would deal 1d8 points of damage with her unarmed strike.
Your Barbarian and Monk levels also stack when determining your number of uses of rage perday. For example said character above would be able to use her rage twice a day.
In addition you may multiclass freely between the Barbarian and Monk classes, and may even continue to gain monk levels regardless of your non-lawful alignment. You must still remain non-lawful to retain your Barbarian abilities and take Barbarian levels. You still face Xp penalties for having multiple classes more than one level apart.

So what do you think? Too much? Too little? Just pointless nonsense?
kelvinaw273
05-27-06, 05:34 PM Barbarian and Monk are philisophically opposed styles, hence the alignment requirements. A monk is all about self-disciplin and self-control. A barbarian is all about raw emotional power. The monk seeks the tranquil silence within their own soul, while the barbarian rushes to the extreme of their feelings.

A barbarian becoming a monk would lose their ability to rage; a monk becoming a barbarian will lose a lot of their abilities - flurry, still mind and ki-strike to name but a few as they lose the focus and mental disciplin required for them.

No, sorry, can't see this as working. It's an interesting idea for a munchkin build, but never practicable.
JulesCARV
05-27-06, 05:59 PM Monks keep all of their class abilities if they become neutral or chaotic. They just can't go any further, so you could start as a monk, go neutral or chaotic, then take barbarian levels.

Sadly, it can't go the other way, at least not effectively, since lawful barbarians don't keep all of their abilities (i.e., rage).

I've created a prestige class for ex-barbarians who've fallen into law (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=614884) (it relates to the barbarian as the blackguard relates to the paladin, basically). Basically, the idea was to create a warrior who replicates many of the features of a barbarian's rage, but through focused biofeedback, concentration, and autohypnosis, rather than raw emotion.
Jenrock
05-27-06, 08:06 PM It's called Chaos Monk, and it's in Dragon #335. By twelfth level, your enemies have a miss chance of 50% when trying to hit you. Also, you lose flurry of blows, and gain flailing strike (an ability that randomly determines the number of attacks you can make and at what penalty). I can PM you other details, if you need me to.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Master_Aerethos 05-27-06, 03:37 PM	Has anyone thought about doing a Barb/Monk cross class? I think it could be an incredibly powerful character if one was to do 5 lvls barb, 10 monk, and most likely a PrC thrown in there. It could easily serve as a scout AND as a major combatant. Though if going from barb to monk you would lose rage, it's not too bad of a thing. What do you all think? P.S. I was also thinking of the tattooed thing for barbarians in the PH2. Does it have any actual effects in game, and if so, I was thinking of combining it with the Tattooed Monk PrC. So any info on that would be SUPERB. Master_Aerethos
Count Arioch the 28th 05-27-06, 03:38 PM	You can't cross'class monk and barbarian, because they aren not skills, they are base classes. If you meant that you want to MULTICLASS monk and barbarian, you still can't because they have contradictory alignment requirements.
Jenrock 05-27-06, 03:41 PM	Any possibilities that may be present are thrown off by one thing: monks must be lawful, and barbarinas must be non-lawful. There was a chaotic monk variant in Dragon Magazine some time ago, although I forget which issue it was.
Master_Aerethos 05-27-06, 04:10 PM	Sorry, I did mean multi-class. My bad :rolleyes: At any rate, you can multi-class the two, I'd just have to change my alignment, which I'm going to account for in my fluff. Jenrock, if you're able and willing to find which issue of Dragon the chaotic monk was in, I would be most thankful, as depending on how the class is constructed, I'd do that opposed to a normal monk/barb. I'd be able to use rage (and if the chaotic monk has it) combined with flurry of blows :devil: Master_Aerethos
Giant_Gnome 05-27-06, 04:18 PM	If I remember correctly there was a semi-humorous feat done up by Eberron creator Keith Baker to explain away a sample NPC in one of the Eberron books who was a Monk/Barbarian (and who had a feat which required the use of Rage). It was called "Noble Savage" or something to that effect. Essentially it allowed Barbarians to be lawful so the combination was possible. Sounds rather useless, I know, but it’s little different than Knight or Monastic Training which allow free multi-classing for Paladins and Monks (a rule I always nix in my games). Anyway, if you wanted to have a Monk/Barbarian I’d go Monk first and take all the levels you want and then go Barbarian because a Barbarian looses Rage for becoming Lawful, a Monk looses nothing for becoming non-Lawful (not to mention you get better scouting skills if you start as Monk).
Lokathor 05-27-06, 04:21 PM	There's also the "Rage Monk" variant in Dragon 310. Give up flurry of blows, still mind, and quivering palm and gain rage, greater rage, and mighty rage as per barbarian. If you turn chaotic you retain your rages and monk levels then stack with barbarian levels to determine rage power.
WarlockDa 05-27-06, 04:22 PM	Well you certianly can change alignment in order to multiclass. But once you do you become an "Ex-member" of whichever class you start in. Start as a Barb and become Lawful = lose Rage and no longer able to take levels in Barb Start as a Monk and become Non-Lawful = no longer able to gain levels as a monk. So effectively you 'could' start out as a monk ...go 10 levels,...then change alignment and go 10 levels and barb. Though that would be one heck of a bit of story to explain with a monk suddenly went barbaric. But it is possible by the RAW.
supernerd8916 05-27-06, 04:43 PM	I personally don't like the name "barbarian" for a class. I prefer my barbarians to call themselves "warriors". If a monk/barbarian came from a tribe, which was destroyed and then someone found him (at around 10 years old or so) he would go for monk for a while before embracing his warriors heritage. or something
pheonixfrostmourn 05-27-06, 05:24 PM	I'm all for giving players what they want...as long as they're willing to pay the price. One of the players in my current game (14th - 15th level) wanted to play monk/barbarian, the price he paid included a detailed character background; spending a feat slot on a custom feat allowing training in both classes( i dislike the "official" multi-class into nearly anything rule); and an additional -20% XP penalty reguardless of favorite class or how close his levels in those 2 classes are. for some, that's a steep price to pay. for others, not steep enough to allow breaking one of the games fundamental rules. but for me & my current players, it's about finding out not only what they want to play, but also what they're willing to sacrifice to play it and then making it happen so that we all have more fun.
myusernameis 05-27-06, 05:29 PM	Well on the same line of thought as Ascetic Knight and Ascetic Mage (with a healthy dose of Devoted Performer) I came up with a feat that is in need of evaluation, which i feel is rather suitable for the situation at hand: Ascetic Rager (I was dipping into the originality juice for that one) You were trained in a monastary that taught you to attempt to strike a balance between discipline and passion. This aids you both in your search for enlightenment and in using your anger to effect during battle. Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike, rage 1/day Benefit: Your Barbarian and Monk levels stack for the purpose of determining your unarmed strike damage. For example a 3rd-level Barbarian/1st-level Monk would deal 1d8 points of damage with her unarmed strike. Your Barbarian and Monk levels also stack when determining your number of uses of rage perday. For example said character above would be able to use her rage twice a day. In addition you may multiclass freely between the Barbarian and Monk classes, and may even continue to gain monk levels regardless of your non-lawful alignment. You must still remain non-lawful to retain your Barbarian abilities and take Barbarian levels. You still face Xp penalties for having multiple classes more than one level apart. So what do you think? Too much? Too little? Just pointless nonsense?
kelvinaw273 05-27-06, 05:34 PM	Barbarian and Monk are philisophically opposed styles, hence the alignment requirements. A monk is all about self-disciplin and self-control. A barbarian is all about raw emotional power. The monk seeks the tranquil silence within their own soul, while the barbarian rushes to the extreme of their feelings. A barbarian becoming a monk would lose their ability to rage; a monk becoming a barbarian will lose a lot of their abilities - flurry, still mind and ki-strike to name but a few as they lose the focus and mental disciplin required for them. No, sorry, can't see this as working. It's an interesting idea for a munchkin build, but never practicable.
JulesCARV 05-27-06, 05:59 PM	Monks keep all of their class abilities if they become neutral or chaotic. They just can't go any further, so you could start as a monk, go neutral or chaotic, then take barbarian levels. Sadly, it can't go the other way, at least not effectively, since lawful barbarians don't keep all of their abilities (i.e., rage). I've created a prestige class for ex-barbarians who've fallen into law (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=614884) (it relates to the barbarian as the blackguard relates to the paladin, basically). Basically, the idea was to create a warrior who replicates many of the features of a barbarian's rage, but through focused biofeedback, concentration, and autohypnosis, rather than raw emotion.
Jenrock 05-27-06, 08:06 PM	It's called Chaos Monk, and it's in Dragon #335. By twelfth level, your enemies have a miss chance of 50% when trying to hit you. Also, you lose flurry of blows, and gain flailing strike (an ability that randomly determines the number of attacks you can make and at what penalty). I can PM you other details, if you need me to.