Barbarian help [Archive] - Wizards Community

Barbarian help [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Feastmaster
03-29-07, 01:20 PM Hi, I need some help on a barbarian build, I am not sure what is the best way to go, or even if there is really more than one way, other than down the power attack line. I don't really ever play combat types, mostly its skill monkeys or flame throwers, I was in the mood for a change.

I am playing a human barbarian, I wanted him to be a mix of Mad Mardigan (Willow) with a bit of Conan thrown in. I wanted to know if picking the feat Exotic Weapon (bastard sword), would be worth it. With that I could boost my AC with a shield, or still cause some pretty substantial damage with it two handed. Possibly becoming an Exotic Weapons Master later on. There aren't too many other "barbarian" PrC's that interest me to be honest.

I looked through the boards for barbarian builds but didn't find too many.

Thanks for the help.
Thawmus
03-29-07, 01:46 PM Hi, I need some help on a barbarian build, I am not sure what is the best way to go, or even if there is really more than one way, other than down the power attack line. I don't really ever play combat types, mostly its skill monkeys or flame throwers, I was in the mood for a change.

I am playing a human barbarian, I wanted him to be a mix of Mad Mardigan (Willow) with a bit of Conan thrown in. I wanted to know if picking the feat Exotic Weapon (bastard sword), would be worth it. With that I could boost my AC with a shield, or still cause some pretty substantial damage with it two handed. Possibly becoming an Exotic Weapons Master later on. There aren't too many other "barbarian" PrC's that interest me to be honest.

I looked through the boards for barbarian builds but didn't find too many.

Thanks for the help.

For PrC's, look no further than the Frenzied Berserker. One of my all-time favorite PrC's that just brings a LOT to the table for a decent Barbarian. Extra attacks, more strength, dex, and CON bonuses, and my all-time favorite ability: Deathless Frenzy.

A lot of Barbs go down the road of Power attack, and carry a two-handed weapon. And almost all take two levels of Fighter just to get the feats they need.

Personally, I once had a lot of luck with two-weapon fighting. You still could go down the power attack>Cleave>Greater Cleave route, and it actually worked a little nicer, with all of those attacks you'd be dishing out. More chances of ending up with a Nat 20, not to mention more chances of finally dropping a target, and taking an extra swing.

Lots of Barbs don't bother, and just go for the Greataxe or Greatsword, however, which is good, too.

Power Attack is usually a safe bet with them, because you'll typically amp up their strength so much during rages/frenzies that you can afford to shave off some of your attack bonus for damage. And Frenzied Berserker gives all sorts of nice bonuses for that later on with their class abilities.
Sotha_syl
03-29-07, 03:53 PM Okay. Barbarians rock hardcore. As a DM for a Barbarian player who had absolutely awful rolls, he's done amazing. (He had only two positive modifiers, and chose to stick with it. Those were Str and Con of course.) We're at about level 14 and he is dishing out an average of 60-90 damage a round. Of course, he went down the greataxe/power attack path with leap attack (From complete adventurer I think) which makes an AMAZING combo. He's planning on going into Eye of Grummsh simply for roleplaying purposes, and I know he has 1 or 2 levels in fighter simply for the feats. He has about... 30 str when raging, I think. Maybe more, I dont have character sheets handy. I know he's an Orc though, +4 to str! I strongly recommend dumping your silly human for an Orc or Half-Orc. (Not that humans aren't simply amazing. Extra feat/skill points/ Favored Class - any.)

Frenzied Berserker is a great Prestige Class... that doesn't play well with others. Its hard as hell to have a Frenzied Berserker in a functioning group for several reasons.

1. People don't want their characters to be attacked by other characters in the party. It creates a bit of tension when you are REQUIRED to attack the nearest living thing while still in a Frenzy...

2. Its difficult to manage. I'm sure you could somehow have it so the Frenzied Berserker isn't killing everyone off after every fight, but to have strategies and plans and to spend money on items simply to alleviate this? People get annoyed.

3. Role play-wise... why would a group of adventurers want a bloodthirsty maniac who attempts to murder them daily adventuring with them?? Would they not simply kill or abandon the maniac? I sure as hell would.

And lastly... Barbarians don't need shields IMO. It defeats the flavor of the class. Personally, I could care less about AC when I play a Barbarian. With a d12 Hit die and a good Con score, I'd ignore armor altogether and just go for pure damage. But thats just me, and thats how I interpret the class. I'd just rather focus on kicking the crap out of things that boosting my armor, which is already taking penalties during rage and things.

So? My opinion, just a straight Barbarian can be great, Frenzied Berserkers will work under specific conditions, but Bear Warrior can be wonderful if you take a look at it. I think its in Complete Warrior. Plus I just like the flavor of the class, but I know I made a Bear Warrior Barbarian for my group to face that ended up having upwards of 40 str. (He was a giant, though.)

Edit: Ditch the Bastard Sword, silly. Feats are much better spent on increasing damage and getting extra rages and qualifying for prestige classes. (Exotic Weapon Master seems more like a Fighter thing to be honest) Do a Greataxe, perhaps with the Feat that allows you to use large weapons. OR, stick with the Bastard Sword and use a light weapon in your off hand and make a crazy dual-wielding Barbarian, possibly going into the Tempest prestige class?

Just throwing ideas out there.
DrakaraGM
03-30-07, 03:22 AM I've personally always liked the barbarian that dipped a bit into ranger - even with the 3.5 version of ranger where a dip of more than one level might be worthwhile - rather than a dip into fighter.

Rangers and barbarians are both esssentially outdoorsmen. 3.5 rangers get a few more skill points to work with -- but a few less hit points. On the other hand, the boost to reflex and fortitude saves can be quite useful. Barbarians get survival as a class skill so the character can continue to improve his ability to track -- and having a single favored enemy could be good for both flavor/background and for mechanical reasons, especially if the campaign is likely to have a commonly recurring foe. (Heck, as a barbarian, favored enemy = humans is just fine too.) Two levels of ranger get you two feats -- sure, they are track and a combat style feat, but what of it? This is worthwhile if you plan to only wear light armor anyway -- if you want to wear medium armor then the combat style won't work for you. But light armor is fine, once you can get your hands on mithril breatplate you'll be fine! (And even if the GM says you need to be proficient -- you are, as a barbarian -- meanwhile the armor counts as light so should not mess up the combat style.) The wild empathy may not be much use, but who knows?

Later on, if there happens to be a PrC you are interested in that requires Endurance feat, heck, just take that third level of ranger. :-)

Anyway, taking the Exotic Wpn Prof. in Bastard sword would indeed allow you to defend with a shield or switch to 2h use for more damage just fine. And if you went with ranger and at 2nd level took twf combat style, then when you first go into melee you can choose between 2h with bastard sword or else draw some light weapon and go twf. (Or if willing to take the to-hit penalty, go for bastard sword in each hand and watch the commoners gasp in awe...)

As a human, you could in fact dip into both ranger and fighter for a couple levels. Even without a PrC, barbarian16/fighter2/ranger2 can be pretty cool.
runestar
03-30-07, 07:43 AM Power attack
leap attack
shock trooper(+ improved bull rush as prereq)
combat reflexes
karmic strike
robilar's gambit
deft opportunist

People hit you, you hit them back twice as hard.:D

You might want to take 2 lvs of fighter to help acquire all those feats ASAP.:)
The_Shaman
03-30-07, 09:56 AM 2 or 4 levels of fighter could help, as the bonus feats and the possibility of taking weapon mastery (requires specialization - hence 4 levels of fighter) can't hurt. I'm not really a fan of Frenzied Berserkers as I don't appreciate having to deal with a berserk party member who is tough like heck to subdue. Straight barbarian is okay, but if you multiclass, consider the Runescarred Berserker if you have sufficiently high wisdom to make use of its abilities. Or, of course, if you want to have a RP restriction a la paladin, you could consider the Champion of Gwynharwyf. IMO it gets all normal barbarians get, and then some more.
bloodtalon
03-30-07, 10:35 AM here is something you might wanna try if you don't mind playing a dumb human barbarian
take "Feral" tremplate in "Savage Species" (may be added to any humaniod or monstrous humaniod)
add that to human
you LA is +1 but you gain alot
your move would be 50, +6 to your natural ac, 2 unarmed attacks, +4str, -2 dex +2 con, -4 int, +2 wis, plus darkveison and fast healing
great for a level 1 barbabian (LA 2)
Chimaera2000
03-31-07, 05:03 PM Frenzied Berserker.... (shudders, then twitches repeatedly).

If you intend to use the Frenzied Berserker, definitely talk with your DM beforehand. At best, it's an extremely powerful melee class that's both difficult to stop and can massacre the opposition. At worst, it's a teammate-caused total party kill waiting to happen. A number of groups have had bad experiences with Frenzied Berserkers (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=11893428), and if you want to keep things fun for everyone in the group, make sure that both you and the DM know what you're getting into and have some ways of keeping your frenzy in check.

The feral template is quite powerful, as its LA is too low for the benefits it provides. (just like the Lloth-Touched template in the Monster Manual IV). Again, run it by your DM before you use it.

Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword) is only worth it for a barbarian if you take the one level of Exotic Weapon Master, otherwise you're better off with a greatsword. For feats, Power Attack and Cleave (and possibly Improved Initiative) are good, safe feats that you can't go wrong taking. If you're just looking for optimizing damage, then you'll want to take Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush and Shock Trooper alongside a means of gaining pounce (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5305146&postcount=29) and a valorous weapon (Unapproachable East), preferably with the aforementioned Frenzied Berserker. Of course, given that you're both playing a Berserker and will be dealing out hideous amounts of damage, your teammates might have some problems with your character.

For more advice on building a character, check out the Character Optimization board (http://boards1.wizards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=339) for build suggestions and the Character Development board (http://boards1.wizards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=340) for fleshing out their personality.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Feastmaster 03-29-07, 01:20 PM	Hi, I need some help on a barbarian build, I am not sure what is the best way to go, or even if there is really more than one way, other than down the power attack line. I don't really ever play combat types, mostly its skill monkeys or flame throwers, I was in the mood for a change. I am playing a human barbarian, I wanted him to be a mix of Mad Mardigan (Willow) with a bit of Conan thrown in. I wanted to know if picking the feat Exotic Weapon (bastard sword), would be worth it. With that I could boost my AC with a shield, or still cause some pretty substantial damage with it two handed. Possibly becoming an Exotic Weapons Master later on. There aren't too many other "barbarian" PrC's that interest me to be honest. I looked through the boards for barbarian builds but didn't find too many. Thanks for the help.
Thawmus 03-29-07, 01:46 PM	Hi, I need some help on a barbarian build, I am not sure what is the best way to go, or even if there is really more than one way, other than down the power attack line. I don't really ever play combat types, mostly its skill monkeys or flame throwers, I was in the mood for a change. I am playing a human barbarian, I wanted him to be a mix of Mad Mardigan (Willow) with a bit of Conan thrown in. I wanted to know if picking the feat Exotic Weapon (bastard sword), would be worth it. With that I could boost my AC with a shield, or still cause some pretty substantial damage with it two handed. Possibly becoming an Exotic Weapons Master later on. There aren't too many other "barbarian" PrC's that interest me to be honest. I looked through the boards for barbarian builds but didn't find too many. Thanks for the help. For PrC's, look no further than the Frenzied Berserker. One of my all-time favorite PrC's that just brings a LOT to the table for a decent Barbarian. Extra attacks, more strength, dex, and CON bonuses, and my all-time favorite ability: Deathless Frenzy. A lot of Barbs go down the road of Power attack, and carry a two-handed weapon. And almost all take two levels of Fighter just to get the feats they need. Personally, I once had a lot of luck with two-weapon fighting. You still could go down the power attack>Cleave>Greater Cleave route, and it actually worked a little nicer, with all of those attacks you'd be dishing out. More chances of ending up with a Nat 20, not to mention more chances of finally dropping a target, and taking an extra swing. Lots of Barbs don't bother, and just go for the Greataxe or Greatsword, however, which is good, too. Power Attack is usually a safe bet with them, because you'll typically amp up their strength so much during rages/frenzies that you can afford to shave off some of your attack bonus for damage. And Frenzied Berserker gives all sorts of nice bonuses for that later on with their class abilities.
Sotha_syl 03-29-07, 03:53 PM	Okay. Barbarians rock hardcore. As a DM for a Barbarian player who had absolutely awful rolls, he's done amazing. (He had only two positive modifiers, and chose to stick with it. Those were Str and Con of course.) We're at about level 14 and he is dishing out an average of 60-90 damage a round. Of course, he went down the greataxe/power attack path with leap attack (From complete adventurer I think) which makes an AMAZING combo. He's planning on going into Eye of Grummsh simply for roleplaying purposes, and I know he has 1 or 2 levels in fighter simply for the feats. He has about... 30 str when raging, I think. Maybe more, I dont have character sheets handy. I know he's an Orc though, +4 to str! I strongly recommend dumping your silly human for an Orc or Half-Orc. (Not that humans aren't simply amazing. Extra feat/skill points/ Favored Class - any.) Frenzied Berserker is a great Prestige Class... that doesn't play well with others. Its hard as hell to have a Frenzied Berserker in a functioning group for several reasons. 1. People don't want their characters to be attacked by other characters in the party. It creates a bit of tension when you are REQUIRED to attack the nearest living thing while still in a Frenzy... 2. Its difficult to manage. I'm sure you could somehow have it so the Frenzied Berserker isn't killing everyone off after every fight, but to have strategies and plans and to spend money on items simply to alleviate this? People get annoyed. 3. Role play-wise... why would a group of adventurers want a bloodthirsty maniac who attempts to murder them daily adventuring with them?? Would they not simply kill or abandon the maniac? I sure as hell would. And lastly... Barbarians don't need shields IMO. It defeats the flavor of the class. Personally, I could care less about AC when I play a Barbarian. With a d12 Hit die and a good Con score, I'd ignore armor altogether and just go for pure damage. But thats just me, and thats how I interpret the class. I'd just rather focus on kicking the crap out of things that boosting my armor, which is already taking penalties during rage and things. So? My opinion, just a straight Barbarian can be great, Frenzied Berserkers will work under specific conditions, but Bear Warrior can be wonderful if you take a look at it. I think its in Complete Warrior. Plus I just like the flavor of the class, but I know I made a Bear Warrior Barbarian for my group to face that ended up having upwards of 40 str. (He was a giant, though.) Edit: Ditch the Bastard Sword, silly. Feats are much better spent on increasing damage and getting extra rages and qualifying for prestige classes. (Exotic Weapon Master seems more like a Fighter thing to be honest) Do a Greataxe, perhaps with the Feat that allows you to use large weapons. OR, stick with the Bastard Sword and use a light weapon in your off hand and make a crazy dual-wielding Barbarian, possibly going into the Tempest prestige class? Just throwing ideas out there.
DrakaraGM 03-30-07, 03:22 AM	I've personally always liked the barbarian that dipped a bit into ranger - even with the 3.5 version of ranger where a dip of more than one level might be worthwhile - rather than a dip into fighter. Rangers and barbarians are both esssentially outdoorsmen. 3.5 rangers get a few more skill points to work with -- but a few less hit points. On the other hand, the boost to reflex and fortitude saves can be quite useful. Barbarians get survival as a class skill so the character can continue to improve his ability to track -- and having a single favored enemy could be good for both flavor/background and for mechanical reasons, especially if the campaign is likely to have a commonly recurring foe. (Heck, as a barbarian, favored enemy = humans is just fine too.) Two levels of ranger get you two feats -- sure, they are track and a combat style feat, but what of it? This is worthwhile if you plan to only wear light armor anyway -- if you want to wear medium armor then the combat style won't work for you. But light armor is fine, once you can get your hands on mithril breatplate you'll be fine! (And even if the GM says you need to be proficient -- you are, as a barbarian -- meanwhile the armor counts as light so should not mess up the combat style.) The wild empathy may not be much use, but who knows? Later on, if there happens to be a PrC you are interested in that requires Endurance feat, heck, just take that third level of ranger. :-) Anyway, taking the Exotic Wpn Prof. in Bastard sword would indeed allow you to defend with a shield or switch to 2h use for more damage just fine. And if you went with ranger and at 2nd level took twf combat style, then when you first go into melee you can choose between 2h with bastard sword or else draw some light weapon and go twf. (Or if willing to take the to-hit penalty, go for bastard sword in each hand and watch the commoners gasp in awe...) As a human, you could in fact dip into both ranger and fighter for a couple levels. Even without a PrC, barbarian16/fighter2/ranger2 can be pretty cool.
runestar 03-30-07, 07:43 AM	Power attack leap attack shock trooper(+ improved bull rush as prereq) combat reflexes karmic strike robilar's gambit deft opportunist People hit you, you hit them back twice as hard.:D You might want to take 2 lvs of fighter to help acquire all those feats ASAP.:)
The_Shaman 03-30-07, 09:56 AM	2 or 4 levels of fighter could help, as the bonus feats and the possibility of taking weapon mastery (requires specialization - hence 4 levels of fighter) can't hurt. I'm not really a fan of Frenzied Berserkers as I don't appreciate having to deal with a berserk party member who is tough like heck to subdue. Straight barbarian is okay, but if you multiclass, consider the Runescarred Berserker if you have sufficiently high wisdom to make use of its abilities. Or, of course, if you want to have a RP restriction a la paladin, you could consider the Champion of Gwynharwyf. IMO it gets all normal barbarians get, and then some more.
bloodtalon 03-30-07, 10:35 AM	here is something you might wanna try if you don't mind playing a dumb human barbarian take "Feral" tremplate in "Savage Species" (may be added to any humaniod or monstrous humaniod) add that to human you LA is +1 but you gain alot your move would be 50, +6 to your natural ac, 2 unarmed attacks, +4str, -2 dex +2 con, -4 int, +2 wis, plus darkveison and fast healing great for a level 1 barbabian (LA 2)
Chimaera2000 03-31-07, 05:03 PM	Frenzied Berserker.... (shudders, then twitches repeatedly). If you intend to use the Frenzied Berserker, definitely talk with your DM beforehand. At best, it's an extremely powerful melee class that's both difficult to stop and can massacre the opposition. At worst, it's a teammate-caused total party kill waiting to happen. A number of groups have had bad experiences with Frenzied Berserkers (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=11893428), and if you want to keep things fun for everyone in the group, make sure that both you and the DM know what you're getting into and have some ways of keeping your frenzy in check. The feral template is quite powerful, as its LA is too low for the benefits it provides. (just like the Lloth-Touched template in the Monster Manual IV). Again, run it by your DM before you use it. Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword) is only worth it for a barbarian if you take the one level of Exotic Weapon Master, otherwise you're better off with a greatsword. For feats, Power Attack and Cleave (and possibly Improved Initiative) are good, safe feats that you can't go wrong taking. If you're just looking for optimizing damage, then you'll want to take Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush and Shock Trooper alongside a means of gaining pounce (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5305146&postcount=29) and a valorous weapon (Unapproachable East), preferably with the aforementioned Frenzied Berserker. Of course, given that you're both playing a Berserker and will be dealing out hideous amounts of damage, your teammates might have some problems with your character. For more advice on building a character, check out the Character Optimization board (http://boards1.wizards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=339) for build suggestions and the Character Development board (http://boards1.wizards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=340) for fleshing out their personality.