Barbarian powergaming [Archive] - Wizards Community

Barbarian powergaming [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Kargush
01-31-06, 07:42 AM Hi there! I am, as you may have guessed, the new kid on the block. And I need some advice. You see, I am playing a human barbarian in a DnD campaign, but I'm not sure about what would be the best picks for feats. Thus far, he looks like this: Str 18 Dex 16 Con 16 Int 13 Wis 15 Cha 12(as far as I can remember...the physical stats are correct though.), with the feats Extra Rage, Weapon Focus(greataxe) and Power Attack. He is 4th lvl. He has a breastplate(made form radamite, a new substance our GM invented, gives +2 AC and dex, and -2 penalty, but doesn't reduce weight or category). He has Climb, jump, Intimidate, Listen, and Survival maxed.

So, what should I do to get the most from him? I plan on taking the Endurance feat at lvl 6 to gain entry to a new prestige class our GM has invented, the Frost Wolf(a Wolf Animal Lord with rage and the option to change into a werewolf form at higher levels for 1 use of rage).

Any help welcome! And please, feel free to suggest cross-classes and prestige classes as well! Thanks!
Raven113
01-31-06, 09:05 AM well, if you really want powergaming, I've just been talking about the Barbarian 3 /Berzerker 2 /Frenzy Berzerker 1 combo. That's a level six character that once per day can rage/frenzy/battle fury, add a potion of Bull's Strength and a pair of +2 Gaunlets of Ogre Power and you'd have 40str and 24con, for one fight of bloodthirsty glory. Of course your party won't like you much and probably make you stand next to the least liked character... like the paladin.

That aside. Anything that ups your strength is good, anything that ups your constitution is better.
My barbarians resign themselves to getting hit, so I rarely focus on their AC. Focus on your hitpoints more, you want hitpoints that make other players cringe and ask if your making that number up.
Damage is your best friend though, the thing can't hurt you if it's dead (usually).
If your resigned to not having a decent AC, then Karmic Strike may be just up your alley. You could go out of your way to get your AC comically low and get the DM to take it easy on you for that reason :)

Mithral Full Plate counts as medium armor and just happens to allow a +3 dex bonus. If you want to go the AC rout. That's a fairly cost effective way. Price falls somewhere around 2000gp. I'm sure someone on these boards knows the exact price.
That and of course all of the standard ways to increase AC apply. Natural Armor and deflection enhancements in particular.
Talk with your DM about Improved Buckler Defense (there is a pretty big divide about this topic on these boards). See if he'll let you use it for two handed fighting. If he does, more power (and AC) to you, go with a mithral buckler to avoid any attack penalties. If not, don't worry, a lot of people (myself included) don't allow it.

I'd also recomend you think about Improved Trip or one of it's variants. You have the strength for it (put Sweeping on your axe for another +4 to the check).

Talk with your DM about Flaws from Unearthed Arcana also, maybe he'll let you grab 2 extra feats (as a barbarian make one of those flaws Shaky). If not, then no loss.

Best I can come up with at this ungodly hour.
Happy Raging.

Edit: hmm, think I have that wrong, it may be Barbarian 3 /Frenzy Berzerker 2 / Berzerker1
RadicalTaoist
01-31-06, 12:31 PM This forum is for class discussion. Powergaming is fine, but it belongs here. (http://boards.wizards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=339) Specifically, some threads that may interest you:

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=111360 - good mild info for the casual powergamer
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=563009 and http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=367957 and http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=401662 - don't copy word for word, but this has all the great charging tricks Barbs excel at
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=482636 - everything you want to know about CO
Deprator
01-31-06, 01:04 PM Ok Kargush listen careful i am very knowledgeable in dnd and i will get u rockin that barb like crazy.

Your next level u should take a level in sorcerer. This is INVALUABLE, because then u will be able to cast arcane spells. You get a bunch of cantrips at your burly figertips to cause terror in your opponents. You can cast light on your face to magnify the intensity of your rage, imagine a hulking human barbarian with a face shinning as brightly as a torch! Doing this will increase your rage to +4 str, +4 con, +1 AC, but your opponent does get to make a will save, but if he fails u still get your +2/+2 rage. Also take mage hand, mage hand can help u recover your weapon if u drop it. But your greataxe prolly weighs more than 5lb so get a short sword or something. Also take the sleep spell as your 1st level spell. Also as many skill points as you can into forgery, ill get to this later. This way after a long day of bright-faced killing you can cast sleep on yourself, now being in a magical slumber will help you recover better than regular sleep, with the spell u will get an extra rage for the next day and 1d4 temp hit points. Also, don't worry about the arcane spell failure with your heavy armor, just take it off to cast spells.

Okay, so now your a Barb1/sorc1. Time to get even more crazy:

3rd level take a level in bard. Bard is very helpful cuz they can sing great songs to get people to like you. After u kill entire armies with a face as bright as god himself people are going to be scared to death of you! Pull out your shoddy (shoddy because people tip better if you appear poor) and set it on the ground. Then use mage hand to float it up into your grasp and perform a nice melody for the townspeople to enjoy. Now they love you for your heroics and song playing. If you do really well you might be able to share your bed with a towns women (or man). This is the real reason behind the performance. If you and your newly found groupie enjoy the sacred act of lovemaking you recover all your hitpoints get +1 permanent charisma and 1d10+1/lvl of lover (max +6) temporary hit points. Combo that with the sleep spell and you can pretty much kill anything the next day.

Pretty much now u can power level and quickly gain the coveted 4th level.
Now you should a level in wizard. This might seem confusing to a new guy like yourself but trust me on this one. Being able to prepare spells from a spell book and having known spells is one of the best combos in DnD. Plus you should have gained at least 4 for 5 charisma points because of your songs in town so your sorcerer level is doing great. Now for the wizard take whatever spells u see fit. Don't forget light for when u rage. THe most important part about wizards is the spell book. During your adventures whenever u see another wizard kill him in cold blood. Use mage hand to lift his spellbook out of his pack and into yours. Without his spell book he gets a -1 on all saves because he is distressed about the loss of his book. Now cast light on the tip of his nose. THis will daze him and make it much harder for him to prepare spells. Now put your armor back on (leave your shoddy lute behind) Charge in with your shortsword as you are running cast another light on your face, you might fail because of armor but its worth a try, attack him with your bright-faced rage until hes dead. Now tear the pages out of his spell book and use your forgery to paste them into your spell book. If your lucky he was like a 14th level mage with 6 level spells. Now u can cast his spells at 4th level!!

Now your wizard levels can get you new spells and your sorcerer levels can cast them and your bard level can increase your charisma. Of course your barbarian level can kill with 95% effiency. All other levels take fighter so u can get extra feats. THis might seem a little complicated to a new player but i've been playing for 30 years and it works great.
parkse
01-31-06, 02:41 PM I REALLY hope that that entire last post was a satire...cause if not....omg....I've never HEARD of such foolishness...if so.....well, same thing :D
Dev Vim
01-31-06, 02:54 PM just about EVERYHTING i would have advised or said is here already, save two litlte things i tell you now. one, get something to keep you from being affected by mind altering spells. nothing sucks more than being calmed out of a rage and ending up exausted. two, make sure the partys healing characer likes you, and knows how to make fatiuge go away.

oh and three

COG IS THE BEST BARBARIAN PRC EVER!!!
Loopy
01-31-06, 03:00 PM Don't be a :censored: wad. Let the kid play the game how he likes to play it. 1337ist jerks are gonna be the death of this game, I swear.
parkse
01-31-06, 03:03 PM Cog?
Loopy
01-31-06, 03:13 PM Cog?

Don't get him started. LOL
Kargush
02-01-06, 07:00 AM OK, so the wording "powergaming" was perhaps a bit rash... Oh well... Anyways, thanks for the advice(the useful advice, that is... That sorc/bard/barb was just BS, I hav eplayed since 3rd ed came out, so please, don't pull such satire...). I have decided to go with a prestige class my DM has designed. The levels stack with barbarian levels to determine rage per day, effects of rage, etc. Also, I get natural armor, a bite attack(which grows increasingly powerful), and at lvl 10 i can take on a dire wolf hybrid form(or somesuch...) that gains me extra con and str.

As for AC, well, I preffer not getting hit, but I am looking seriously into HP boosters.

That aside, I have some camp-fire tales. Our current adventure saw our band of heroes joined by a Warlock. We got into a fight with some ogres(we are supposed to "remove" them anyways), which my barbarian promptly critted to death. Next, a troll. Same story. And then two ogres. Crit one, slay other with imense damage. Then, at night, we get attacked by Green Hags, two of them. A couple of failed DC 16 fort checks(with a +9 mod thanks to rage), and voila, str 1... He survived though. And gained a total of two levels in the course of this madness! ;p Level 7, here I come...
Dev Vim
02-01-06, 07:33 AM Don't get him started. LOL

awww come on, why not? Everyone should know about the Champion of Gwynharwyf, the best barbarian class ever!
Rivelstraz
02-01-06, 07:47 AM I'm glad my players can't read English, those are some nasty tricks for power-gaming...

About Bard/Barbarian, I don't see it as a bad idea, what about Skald as PrC?

The more I think about it, the more I like it.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kargush 01-31-06, 07:42 AM	Hi there! I am, as you may have guessed, the new kid on the block. And I need some advice. You see, I am playing a human barbarian in a DnD campaign, but I'm not sure about what would be the best picks for feats. Thus far, he looks like this: Str 18 Dex 16 Con 16 Int 13 Wis 15 Cha 12(as far as I can remember...the physical stats are correct though.), with the feats Extra Rage, Weapon Focus(greataxe) and Power Attack. He is 4th lvl. He has a breastplate(made form radamite, a new substance our GM invented, gives +2 AC and dex, and -2 penalty, but doesn't reduce weight or category). He has Climb, jump, Intimidate, Listen, and Survival maxed. So, what should I do to get the most from him? I plan on taking the Endurance feat at lvl 6 to gain entry to a new prestige class our GM has invented, the Frost Wolf(a Wolf Animal Lord with rage and the option to change into a werewolf form at higher levels for 1 use of rage). Any help welcome! And please, feel free to suggest cross-classes and prestige classes as well! Thanks!
Raven113 01-31-06, 09:05 AM	well, if you really want powergaming, I've just been talking about the Barbarian 3 /Berzerker 2 /Frenzy Berzerker 1 combo. That's a level six character that once per day can rage/frenzy/battle fury, add a potion of Bull's Strength and a pair of +2 Gaunlets of Ogre Power and you'd have 40str and 24con, for one fight of bloodthirsty glory. Of course your party won't like you much and probably make you stand next to the least liked character... like the paladin. That aside. Anything that ups your strength is good, anything that ups your constitution is better. My barbarians resign themselves to getting hit, so I rarely focus on their AC. Focus on your hitpoints more, you want hitpoints that make other players cringe and ask if your making that number up. Damage is your best friend though, the thing can't hurt you if it's dead (usually). If your resigned to not having a decent AC, then Karmic Strike may be just up your alley. You could go out of your way to get your AC comically low and get the DM to take it easy on you for that reason :) Mithral Full Plate counts as medium armor and just happens to allow a +3 dex bonus. If you want to go the AC rout. That's a fairly cost effective way. Price falls somewhere around 2000gp. I'm sure someone on these boards knows the exact price. That and of course all of the standard ways to increase AC apply. Natural Armor and deflection enhancements in particular. Talk with your DM about Improved Buckler Defense (there is a pretty big divide about this topic on these boards). See if he'll let you use it for two handed fighting. If he does, more power (and AC) to you, go with a mithral buckler to avoid any attack penalties. If not, don't worry, a lot of people (myself included) don't allow it. I'd also recomend you think about Improved Trip or one of it's variants. You have the strength for it (put Sweeping on your axe for another +4 to the check). Talk with your DM about Flaws from Unearthed Arcana also, maybe he'll let you grab 2 extra feats (as a barbarian make one of those flaws Shaky). If not, then no loss. Best I can come up with at this ungodly hour. Happy Raging. Edit: hmm, think I have that wrong, it may be Barbarian 3 /Frenzy Berzerker 2 / Berzerker1
RadicalTaoist 01-31-06, 12:31 PM	This forum is for class discussion. Powergaming is fine, but it belongs here. (http://boards.wizards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=339) Specifically, some threads that may interest you: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=111360 - good mild info for the casual powergamer http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=563009 and http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=367957 and http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=401662 - don't copy word for word, but this has all the great charging tricks Barbs excel at http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=482636 - everything you want to know about CO
Deprator 01-31-06, 01:04 PM	Ok Kargush listen careful i am very knowledgeable in dnd and i will get u rockin that barb like crazy. Your next level u should take a level in sorcerer. This is INVALUABLE, because then u will be able to cast arcane spells. You get a bunch of cantrips at your burly figertips to cause terror in your opponents. You can cast light on your face to magnify the intensity of your rage, imagine a hulking human barbarian with a face shinning as brightly as a torch! Doing this will increase your rage to +4 str, +4 con, +1 AC, but your opponent does get to make a will save, but if he fails u still get your +2/+2 rage. Also take mage hand, mage hand can help u recover your weapon if u drop it. But your greataxe prolly weighs more than 5lb so get a short sword or something. Also take the sleep spell as your 1st level spell. Also as many skill points as you can into forgery, ill get to this later. This way after a long day of bright-faced killing you can cast sleep on yourself, now being in a magical slumber will help you recover better than regular sleep, with the spell u will get an extra rage for the next day and 1d4 temp hit points. Also, don't worry about the arcane spell failure with your heavy armor, just take it off to cast spells. Okay, so now your a Barb1/sorc1. Time to get even more crazy: 3rd level take a level in bard. Bard is very helpful cuz they can sing great songs to get people to like you. After u kill entire armies with a face as bright as god himself people are going to be scared to death of you! Pull out your shoddy (shoddy because people tip better if you appear poor) and set it on the ground. Then use mage hand to float it up into your grasp and perform a nice melody for the townspeople to enjoy. Now they love you for your heroics and song playing. If you do really well you might be able to share your bed with a towns women (or man). This is the real reason behind the performance. If you and your newly found groupie enjoy the sacred act of lovemaking you recover all your hitpoints get +1 permanent charisma and 1d10+1/lvl of lover (max +6) temporary hit points. Combo that with the sleep spell and you can pretty much kill anything the next day. Pretty much now u can power level and quickly gain the coveted 4th level. Now you should a level in wizard. This might seem confusing to a new guy like yourself but trust me on this one. Being able to prepare spells from a spell book and having known spells is one of the best combos in DnD. Plus you should have gained at least 4 for 5 charisma points because of your songs in town so your sorcerer level is doing great. Now for the wizard take whatever spells u see fit. Don't forget light for when u rage. THe most important part about wizards is the spell book. During your adventures whenever u see another wizard kill him in cold blood. Use mage hand to lift his spellbook out of his pack and into yours. Without his spell book he gets a -1 on all saves because he is distressed about the loss of his book. Now cast light on the tip of his nose. THis will daze him and make it much harder for him to prepare spells. Now put your armor back on (leave your shoddy lute behind) Charge in with your shortsword as you are running cast another light on your face, you might fail because of armor but its worth a try, attack him with your bright-faced rage until hes dead. Now tear the pages out of his spell book and use your forgery to paste them into your spell book. If your lucky he was like a 14th level mage with 6 level spells. Now u can cast his spells at 4th level!! Now your wizard levels can get you new spells and your sorcerer levels can cast them and your bard level can increase your charisma. Of course your barbarian level can kill with 95% effiency. All other levels take fighter so u can get extra feats. THis might seem a little complicated to a new player but i've been playing for 30 years and it works great.
parkse 01-31-06, 02:41 PM	I REALLY hope that that entire last post was a satire...cause if not....omg....I've never HEARD of such foolishness...if so.....well, same thing :D
Dev Vim 01-31-06, 02:54 PM	just about EVERYHTING i would have advised or said is here already, save two litlte things i tell you now. one, get something to keep you from being affected by mind altering spells. nothing sucks more than being calmed out of a rage and ending up exausted. two, make sure the partys healing characer likes you, and knows how to make fatiuge go away. oh and three COG IS THE BEST BARBARIAN PRC EVER!!!
Loopy 01-31-06, 03:00 PM	Don't be a :censored: wad. Let the kid play the game how he likes to play it. 1337ist jerks are gonna be the death of this game, I swear.
parkse 01-31-06, 03:03 PM	Cog?
Loopy 01-31-06, 03:13 PM	Cog? Don't get him started. LOL
Kargush 02-01-06, 07:00 AM	OK, so the wording "powergaming" was perhaps a bit rash... Oh well... Anyways, thanks for the advice(the useful advice, that is... That sorc/bard/barb was just BS, I hav eplayed since 3rd ed came out, so please, don't pull such satire...). I have decided to go with a prestige class my DM has designed. The levels stack with barbarian levels to determine rage per day, effects of rage, etc. Also, I get natural armor, a bite attack(which grows increasingly powerful), and at lvl 10 i can take on a dire wolf hybrid form(or somesuch...) that gains me extra con and str. As for AC, well, I preffer not getting hit, but I am looking seriously into HP boosters. That aside, I have some camp-fire tales. Our current adventure saw our band of heroes joined by a Warlock. We got into a fight with some ogres(we are supposed to "remove" them anyways), which my barbarian promptly critted to death. Next, a troll. Same story. And then two ogres. Crit one, slay other with imense damage. Then, at night, we get attacked by Green Hags, two of them. A couple of failed DC 16 fort checks(with a +9 mod thanks to rage), and voila, str 1... He survived though. And gained a total of two levels in the course of this madness! ;p Level 7, here I come...
Dev Vim 02-01-06, 07:33 AM	Don't get him started. LOL awww come on, why not? Everyone should know about the Champion of Gwynharwyf, the best barbarian class ever!
Rivelstraz 02-01-06, 07:47 AM	I'm glad my players can't read English, those are some nasty tricks for power-gaming... About Bard/Barbarian, I don't see it as a bad idea, what about Skald as PrC? The more I think about it, the more I like it.