Post/Author/DateTime	Post
eternalGM 11-28-07, 06:52 PM	I know there is a class in the PEACH orchard called brawler, but i dont like it....no offense. My variant removes a Barbarians Weapon and Armor Proficiencies and gives him the monks flurry of blows with ONLY his fists and unarmed dmg progression of monk. What do you guys think, Is it balanced?
nonsi 11-28-07, 07:48 PM	I know there is a class in the PEACH orchard called brawler, but i dont like it....no offense. My variant removes a Barbarians Weapon and Armor Proficiencies and gives him the monks flurry of blows with ONLY his fists and unarmed dmg progression of monk. What do you guys think, Is it balanced? Barb with no PA ? (unarmed = small weapon) If it's damage dealing you're looking for, I'm not sure you'll get more damage out of it.
eternalGM 11-28-07, 08:41 PM	Its not damage-dealing im looking for, its a decent unarmed rager that has the potential to do tons of attacks with his fists.
DrakaraGM 11-29-07, 02:45 AM	Don't get rid of ALL his weapon proficiencies -- Simple Weapons should be allowed. Gotta have a crossbow 'cause sometimes things fly, and having a spear or quarterstaff or dagger or whatever can sometimes make a difference. I mean, you're welcome to fight that werewolf with your fists, but perhaps a silver dagger would be better? I suggest that you give the brawler "special brawler weapons" that are simple weapons which the brawler can use in a flurry of blows -- at least one of each type of damage: Punching Dagger -- a punch with a point! Takes care of piercing damage. Just like a monk with siangham. Except punching, using a dagger -- perfect for a brawl when you need magic or something. And if you can afford it, you can get a punching dagger disguised as a big belt buckle. You know you want one... Light Mace -- like a club only better (same damage, but light). Takes care of bludgeoning damage. Or could simply use Quarterstaff instead. Or let 'em use both, no big deal either way. And either way, usable in a flurry just like a monk with nunchakus or a staff normally. If you go with a quarterstaff, note that for that first run up to the enemy, can go WHACK with the staff in two hand, for 1.5xSTR bonus to damage. Kind of like breaking a pool cue over some sod's head in a bar brawl... Sickle -- every peasant knows how to use one, but only the brawler goes wild with 'em. Takes care of slashing damage. And "no officer, its a tool, I'm workin' the harvest this week, honest!" Dart -- the equivalent of shuriken. Not ammunition so no flurry until/unless you take Quick Draw, but if you do, can throw a bunch of darts in a round, and collect them up later. This selection means that the brawler won't have to be totally useless when suddenly faced with DR that his fists just can't do the job on. Also -- give the brawler a special ability that matches his DR. When brawler gets DR X/-, his fists are able to penetrate X points of "DR Y/-" of his foes. So when two brawlers of the same level face off against each other, their DRs will apply against each others weapons but their fists can punch through it, and when fighting creatures with DR Y/-, they can negate some of that with their fists. Its a different spin on Ki, based off an existing class feature. For things that require special materials or magic to penetrate, well, that is why they need light weapons that can be used in a flurry. Finally, getting rid of armor means lower AC than ever -- presumably wearing armor will negate unarmed damage and flurry abilities? In which case, suggest they get the monk AC bonus due to WIS as well. Don't give them additional AC for level -- they get totake more punishment -- but monk WIS bonus to AC makes sense. A cunning brawler ducks at the right time more than a foolish one.
Ralvuimego 11-29-07, 01:47 PM	So making a brawler out a barbarian? Let me throw at you what I can think of. Skills: More of a barroom brawler than a wild warrior right? I'd probably take off Survival in favor of Knowledge: Local or Gather Information. (This change is more for fluff, it's not really that important) Hit Dice, BAB, and Saves: Perfectly fine. Weapon and Armor proficiency: Lose martial weapon proficiency, or make a list of weapons brawlers are proficient with, like what was suggested before. Class Features: Lose Trap Sense and Illiteracy, since you're more of a city character, I don't think you'll need those. (This change is more for fluff, you can keep them if you want) Gain something like: Hammer Strike: The Brawler may designate a single unamred melee attack per round to be a hammer strike. This attack uses both hands, allowing the Brawler to apply his strength and power attack bonuses as though he were wielding a two handed weapon. Dull Pain: As long as the Brawler is Raging, he may choose to delay damage until his rage ends. Up to 5x his Brawler level worth of damage can be ignored by this ability. Once the Brawler drops out of rage, he takes the full ammount of damage he delayed. Delayed damage can be healed just like normal hit points, and the caster may choose wether or not to heal hit points or remove delayed damage. (This makes the Brawler a little more able to survive without armor, though your healer needs to be ready to bring you out of danger.) And Improvised Combat: A raging brawler doesn't care what he hits his target with, as long as he hits them with it. While raging, the penalty for wielding an improvised weapon is halved. Improved Improvised Combat: A Brawler no longer takes any penalty for wielding an improvised weapon while he is raging.
Tectorman 11-29-07, 02:13 PM	From a later issue of Dragon Magazine, Urban Brawler (Barbarian Variant) Replaces: Prof. with Medium Armor, Shields, and Martial Weapons Benefit: IUS and TWF (unarmed strikes only) at 1st level, ITWF (unarmed strikes only) at 6th level, GTWF (unarmed strikes only) at 11th level, penalties for fighting with improvised weapons reduced to -2 Did you know that was there (not to poke fun at you, but if you didn't, the similarities are kinda funny)?
eternalGM 12-01-07, 08:45 PM	Don't get rid of ALL his weapon proficiencies -- Simple Weapons should be allowed. Gotta have a crossbow 'cause sometimes things fly, and having a spear or quarterstaff or dagger or whatever can sometimes make a difference. I mean, you're welcome to fight that werewolf with your fists, but perhaps a silver dagger would be better? I suggest that you give the brawler "special brawler weapons" that are simple weapons which the brawler can use in a flurry of blows -- at least one of each type of damage: Punching Dagger -- a punch with a point! Takes care of piercing damage. Just like a monk with siangham. Except punching, using a dagger -- perfect for a brawl when you need magic or something. And if you can afford it, you can get a punching dagger disguised as a big belt buckle. You know you want one... Light Mace -- like a club only better (same damage, but light). Takes care of bludgeoning damage. Or could simply use Quarterstaff instead. Or let 'em use both, no big deal either way. And either way, usable in a flurry just like a monk with nunchakus or a staff normally. If you go with a quarterstaff, note that for that first run up to the enemy, can go WHACK with the staff in two hand, for 1.5xSTR bonus to damage. Kind of like breaking a pool cue over some sod's head in a bar brawl... Sickle -- every peasant knows how to use one, but only the brawler goes wild with 'em. Takes care of slashing damage. And "no officer, its a tool, I'm workin' the harvest this week, honest!" Dart -- the equivalent of shuriken. Not ammunition so no flurry until/unless you take Quick Draw, but if you do, can throw a bunch of darts in a round, and collect them up later. This selection means that the brawler won't have to be totally useless when suddenly faced with DR that his fists just can't do the job on. DrakaraGM.........just.......when i read it i jumped up and started cartwheeling: you my fine-feathered-friend get a cookie :cookie: I will absolutely use this new weapon list, tho the ki spin im just gonna ignore. sry!:P So making a brawler out a barbarian? Let me throw at you what I can think of. Skills: More of a barroom brawler than a wild warrior right? I'd probably take off Survival in favor of Knowledge: Local or Gather Information. (This change is more for fluff, it's not really that important) Hit Dice, BAB, and Saves: Perfectly fine. Weapon and Armor proficiency: Lose martial weapon proficiency, or make a list of weapons brawlers are proficient with, like what was suggested before. Class Features: Lose Trap Sense and Illiteracy, since you're more of a city character, I don't think you'll need those. (This change is more for fluff, you can keep them if you want) Gain something like: Hammer Strike: The Brawler may designate a single unamred melee attack per round to be a hammer strike. This attack uses both hands, allowing the Brawler to apply his strength and power attack bonuses as though he were wielding a two handed weapon. Dull Pain: As long as the Brawler is Raging, he may choose to delay damage until his rage ends. Up to 5x his Brawler level worth of damage can be ignored by this ability. Once the Brawler drops out of rage, he takes the full ammount of damage he delayed. Delayed damage can be healed just like normal hit points, and the caster may choose wether or not to heal hit points or remove delayed damage. (This makes the Brawler a little more able to survive without armor, though your healer needs to be ready to bring you out of danger.) DUDE! I love these class features, you additionally get a cookie :cookie: And about you Tectorman, im a noob so i dont understand those acronims you laid down, would you be so kind as to type them out??? Thank you so much everybody for responding to my thread, Happy Posting!